“To the Feds, I’ll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn’t working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.”
Post got removed in .world for not being a “news source” even though Klippenstein is definitely a very established independent journalist, so trying again here I guess.
Damn Gen Z kids can’t even write a full page manifesto anymore smdh
/s
ChatGPT, write me a manifesto
Not even a whole book like they used to. SHM My Head.
Shaking head my my head?
thatsthejoke.jpg
What’s funny about this? Its just confusing
IKR, right? It’s just redundancy for its own sake.
or type initialisms
This sounds like a written confession or statement to the police, after he’s already in police custody. Not a “manifesto”, which is something justifying your actions to the public and done before carrying out whatever it is.
I’m not buying any of this. Someone who went to so much trouble planning, executing, and getting away without a trace, isn’t going to go out in public with a bunch of incriminating items on their person. The NYPD probably just picked this tip out of the thousands they got, and are making things fit after the fact.
I really find it to be quite absurd that people are still thinking this isn’t the guy. This is probably the guy. My basis for that is basically just that the shooter had a 200 dollar peak design redditor backpack and a uniqlo packable jacket when he shot that guy, and those are both heavily techbro-coded fashion items. That’s on top of all the internet history of this specific guy pretty much indicating that he’s the guy. Back problems, leading to a several month long disappearance, after he turns 26, and is no longer on his parent’s healthcare plan.
We can also look at it through the lens of just the assassination attempt itself. The news is saying they found either a 3d printed gun, or more commonly, a ghost gun (which I have not been able to find a consistent account of). In either case, that involves buying a mostly unregulated firearm upper, and then either finishing an “80%” pre-assembled lower with a drill press, or probably even a regular cordless drill, or just wholesale printing the entire lower of the gun yourself. Both of those, are also techbro-coded methods of obtaining a firearm. Compared to just buying a somewhat common firearm in a state where it’s pretty easy to get a gun a couple months before, and then shaving the serial numbers off the gun, or just getting a gun off the black market, or stealing one from someone, which all seem maybe easier than going the ghost gun route.
In the video itself, we see him struggle to cycle the gun manually, due what is probably a combination of using subsonic ammunition, and his suppressor, which I’m assuming did not have a nielsen device, or, a booster. Those are devices that are meant to help browning-style tilting barrel designs cycle much more reliably. They also tend to cycle less reliably with heavier baffled suppressors compared to much lighter, quieter, disposable, and easier to produce wipe-based suppressors.
His research and meticulously planned operation also consisted of shooting this guy in the back, in front of a camera, while this guy walked to his hotel. That’s a plan that has a high percentage chance of success, it’s the same way that you’d see many mob hits happen, but does it strike me as something which is particularly complicated or out of character for this guy, if he had a couple months to cook something up?
Based on the entire description of that chain of events, that would probably indicate that this is a somebody that’s had some amount of preparation but wasn’t some kind of professional or overwhelming genius. It could be the case that they dug around online for thirty minutes, happened to find a guy that had both disappeared for a couple months, had medical problems, was a little bit more conspiratorial, or rather, had incoherent politics, and would be the kind of guy who would dress in a peak design backpack and in a uniqlo jacket, and was ALSO a guy which was exiting new york at that time via bus. They would then have to plant evidence on him, which cops are known to do, but that’s all, legitimately, entirely possible. Is it more likely than this being the guy, based on everything we’ve seen from the video?
I would say no, probably not, this is probably the guy.
My basis for that is basically just that the shooter had a 200 dollar peak design redditor backpack and a uniqlo packable jacket when he shot that guy, and those are both heavily techbro-coded fashion items. That’s on top of all the internet history of this specific guy pretty much indicating that he’s the guy. Back problems, leading to a several month long disappearance, after he turns 26, and is no longer on his parent’s healthcare plan.
The number of black-haired white guys who wear this clothing, are interested in tech, had health problems, and have been screwed over by insurance companies isn’t a small number. There’s probably thousands of them in any given US city.
You are doing the thing where the media is all pointing at a single person, and trying to convict them based on non-material-evidence factors: clothing, blurry pictures, ideology, “motivation”, etc. None of those things link this person to the crime scene. If they showed you all the other tips and candidates they’ve gotten in the past week that fit the bill, I doubt you’d be so sure.
I say all that in my comment, but, it’s not just that this guy is a techbro, there are some other factors that make it so he’s probably the guy. With those, I just think that it’s probably more likely that this is the guy, than that it isn’t. I don’t really see a need to theorize that this isn’t the guy based on how the guy in the video is some sort of crazy criminal mastermind, when he also hits up a starbucks right before, as well as a bunch of other evidence in the video itself that this is probably a somewhat average, if maybe uncommon, guy. i.e. it easily could just be a techbro.
From what the news has told us, which is really all we have, this guy fits the bill pretty solidly. We’ll see with the dna, ballistics, and fingerprint, but we also know that’s historically not really conclusive evidence either. The best you could do is that this guy fits the specific timeline, which we’ve heard less about relative to everything else, though from what we have heard, he does seem to fit pretty well. This entire issue, the issue of being able to conclusively tell who’s done a crime at what time, that’s part of why the justice system needs reform, because it’s very likely that you could just get this all wrong. I can acknowledge that reality, and also acknowledge that, based on what is publicly available so far, this guy is probably the guy.
I dunno, the idea that this random guy, who’s reading and posting shit about the unabomber’s manifesto on his goodreads, and happened to be passing through new york via hostel and then greyhound at this time, is just some random guy, I dunno. With modern social media, I think we really start to strain credibility that this isn’t the guy. You would have to have a very convenient fall guy for that to be the case. It probably would’ve been easier to just catch any random schizo techbro inside of new york and then throw a gun and prewritten manifesto at that guy, to be honest, if the nypd or fbi just wanted some random dude to bag and throw away to pretend like they’re capable. Like you said, you could find them by the thousands.
It’s really sad that this has attracted the nutcase community.
Like the story somehow isn’t wild enough, people are hopping on some crazy narrative about his eyebrows.
Very sad.
If the eyebrows are not split, you must acquit!
Yeah, it’s been really crazy. People have been trueanoning on this one just like people did with the trump shooting, even though that one was obviously also a pretty clear cut case. I think partially, it’s because people are wanting to be half-funny, and are basically just iterating on the joke of “oh, I saw him at bible study at the time! that couldn’t have been him!” and then sharing photo edits, right.
I think part of it is that everyone has been trained by true crime and fiction to think of all of these events as though they’re living in a tom clancy book, or something. They’re enraptured by the spectacularization of this event, and of all of the past of history, enraptured by the transformation of this event into a spectacle, so they get the feeling that, oh, oooh, something’s off, but I just can’t tell what. It always has to be some sort of increasingly more dramatic escalation, until there’s some sort of release of tension, because that’s how things work in fiction. In fiction, a guy isn’t allowed to just pull off a hit on a random unprotected CEO, ride his bike to central park, leave a backpack full of monopoly cash because he’s kind of cracked, get on a bus, and then go to a shithole in pennsylvania and then get busted over a mcdonald’s hash brown. That shit doesn’t happen in fiction, so it’s not allowed to happen in real life.
I think part of it is also some sort of idiot idea about, somehow, if they just question the narrative on this enough, it will cause the guy to be innocent, somehow just them being conspiratorial on social media will cause that if they cook on it hard enough.
Most of all, though, I think it’s sort of this desire to have the guy who shot that CEO get away, or be a different guy because, in the mind of your average person, that guy is some agent 47 super CEO hitman, that’s going to liberate us brokies from our shitty healthcare problems, when obviously that’s kind of a delusional escapist fantasy.
Basically, none of this is allowed to be actually real. This isn’t a real event, in the mind of your average person. This is a media event, it’s being treated like one. Much like that, you can cook up fanfictions, but it doesn’t change the base media product, and you have to know that you can’t do anything to affect the thing itself, it’s set in stone and it’s unchangeable and it’s totally ethereal and out of your grasp.
That’s sort of partially why I think this isn’t going to change anything, and, though I think maybe a repeat might happen, I’m not holding my breath. Because while everyone can recognize the problem, everyone, in classic american style, wants some superman to come and save them, and is willing to do nothing, or put anything on the line, in order to really save themselves or others.
well said
The conspiracy theorists fall for the same falacy that they accuse the media and cops of doing: That it’s only interesting because the victim was a CEO.
If this has been any other shooting, they wouldn’t be theorizing about the “message” or reasoning in his manifest. Every fucking murderer has a message or believes in a reason to do what they do.
Until the proven killer has confessed and stated an actual message, the whole thing is entirely made up by people who want to align the story to their own interest.
I really find it to be quite absurd that people are still thinking this isn’t the guy
This guy doesn’t know about jury nullification.
The crazy part about jury nullification is that if I was someone who was wanting to engage in it I probably wouldn’t be posting my opinions about the case online in a public fashion because that could easily be used as something to dismiss me from the case. That’s like a step away from bringing it up to the judge in the courtroom. They’re probably already gonna select a bunch of random boomers who have no idea what’s going on to comprise the jury anyways, since they can just do that if they want to, in the same way that the jury can just decide someone’s guilty or not. So that whole conversation is kind of moot.
Well put. A lot of people have built this guy up as a criminal mastermind, and his arrest pokes a giant hole through that.
There does seem to be inconsistency between the shooter meticulously planning things out and then this guy conveniently popping up at a McDonalds with all the gear and confessing. Seems like the first thing you’d do would be to ditch the gun and the silencer. If the gun was 3d printed, he could’ve literally just melted it down. On the flip side, if he wanted to get caught then he didn’t have to do all this complex planning and could’ve just stayed at the scene and surrendered.
Yep, the cops and US news are trying to get everyone to ignore all these glaring inconstencies.
They fucked up, let the guy slip through their fingers, and now are trying to do damage control.
Exactly, it’s a high profile case and it makes the ruling class uncomfortable if it goes unsolved.
So you’re telling me the real guy is out in the wild /and/ some Ivy League nepo baby is going to get fried? Sounds good to me
Very much agree on the fact this is no way a manifesto and shame on all the news outlets using such a clickbaity word.
I don’t know why it’s so hard to believe. Of course the weight of US law enforcement was focused on one murder because it was a CEO. He didn’t get away without a trace, pictures of his face were everywhere. His path was traced from Atlanta to Pennsylvania. Why is it so hard to believe that he had incriminating evidence on him? For all we know, he might be on his way to whack another CEO. Wasn’t his last known address in Hawaii? He might have just been passing through Pennsylvania and had all his travel stuff with him. Once he realized the manhunt was closing in, he might have felt the need to write the justification with the hopes that the average American would read it and see him as a hero.
We still know so little about this whole situation. There’s just no reason to jump to conspiracy.
I think it’s real. Though, it is kinda suspicious they were able to respond so fast to a McDonald’s tip; could’ve been parallel construction.
[indecipherable] is the new [redacted]
I suspect the second indecipherable is because they did not want to give the public a “name” to unite behind, kinda like how democrats started calling enemies “weird”.
Imagine if he called them “assholes” or smth, the public would latch onto that and use it as a rallying standard.
Not like we needed help calling them that, and his calling them “parasites” earlier seems at least slightly less generic and more cutting
I think it’s “4th”.
I think there’s something else being withheld. This might sound a bit crazy, but there have been a lot of 286s involved. Denial code 286, Breloom, 286 tweets, following 286 people, caught 286 miles away from the scene of the crime, and the manifesto is not 286 words, but 262?
Reddit suppressing and removing all posts and even his account while Lemmy communities keep them all up. Feels good man
I was able to find this via the Wayback Machine. Not much, but something.
Basically just seems like a normal, intelligent, albeit edgy (with reason) young adult.
I’m curious to see how he’s painted by the media now that most of his accounts have been deleted it won’t be possible to understand who he was without the media telling us.
The media is the mouthpiece of the owner class. so they’ll say he’s evil and killed a wonderful, caring person and none of us dregs at the bottom should get any ideas that it’s okay or justified that he did it.
yes it does
This whole thing smells like horse shit. You hear so make stories about murderers ditching anything they had on them at the time of the crime. Rivers and lakes get dragged, forests are swept, every dumpster is turned upside down.
Yet, you’re going to tell me homie was 300 miles away carrying everything he had still on him from the crime AND a literal confession note? Are they sure he wasn’t waving air traffic controller sticks around on the freeway yelling, “IT WAS ME IT WAS ME”?
At the very least it seems incongruous with leaving the state afterwards. If he was that fatalistic about being caught why didn’t he just use a normal gun and drop it afterwards while he waited for the cops? He literally made a suppressed weapon and had a complex exit plan. That doesn’t match up.
Unless he was planning on targeting more. Then keeping the firearm might make some sense, as well as a note in case he’s caught that would explain his actions whether he’d killed 1 or 20 health insurance leeches.
But on him?
It’s a gamble.
He could have done the math and thought if they were arresting him and going through his stuff, there was a good chance they would already have enough to hang him. While scattering the evidence would increase the odds of them finding something they could trace back to him.
Look at it this way - where do you keep your wallet? Do you leave it somewhere until you need it, or do you keep it on your person so you know exactly where it is at all times?
I actually leave it somewhere until I need it… He could have easily left all this at his home and dyed his hair.
Could have had another target on the list but also plans to do a full reveal if caught
This is by far the best explanation why he still had his “materials” on him like the gun, fake ID, tons of cash, etc. He wasn’t done yet.
He believes he’s a martyr. Time will tell.
what about his book review?
.world should not be removing articles from Ken Klippenstein. I detest the man for his methods and indiscretion (not necessarily in this instance), but he does post the facts as he receives them.
Yeah, I don’t actually know too much about him, this is the first I’ve seen of him afaik (though I definitely could have read his stuff and not realized), but as far as I can tell he’s pretty consistent with factual reporting. It did strike me as weird it was removed, like I get it’s technically a substack page and all, but it’s not like some random guys blog, and it’s still the only reputable source for the full manifesto I’ve seen.
I don’t see any facts in this article. I see a lot of statements with 0 evidence
They remove anything that causes too much moderation to be needed. (By that I just mean reports people make on other comments)
Just remember which instance let you read this, and which one wouldn’t let you.
.ml doesnt need to host a bi monthly feud posts like .world does. Their moderator actions are all the advertisements we need. Make an account and export your settings today! Lemmy.ml
I don’t wanna get banned for saying China does bad things too lol
As long as you don’t blindly repeat things from the US state dept without any critical thoughts you’re fine. Look into things before you say them, China has plenty of issues, pick a real one.
China is perpetuating genocide against their uyghur muslim population.
Edit: lmao, fuckin gottem.
lemmy.world is perpetuating a genocide against our braincell population
Yeah that’s the unsupported US state dept propaganda I was mainly talking about.
We know what genocide in the 21st century under an authoritarian regime that has complete and total control over the flow of information looks like, thanks to Israel. The Palestinian genocide is the most well documented genocide in history, despite Israel entirely controlling the access to technology, press, and internet, with a tighter grip than China.
Uighurs aren’t under going a genocide. You can visit Xinjiang right now, without a tour guide. You can bring whatever tech you want and post whatever you want.
Was China harsh in their initial crackdown of allegedly radicalized elements among the poverty stricken population 20 years ago when 9/11 was still fresh in everyone’s minds and the US government was invading a half dozen countries causing terror groups to flee to other countries and start cells there? Sure.
But fewer people of uighur descent were killed or imprisoned over the last 50 years in China, per capita or by total number, than black people were by the us last year.
If that’s the basis for genocide, then boyo every country on the planet has committed genocide and is committing genocide.
But fewer people of uighur descent were killed or imprisoned over the last 50 years in China, per capita or by total number, than black people were by the us last year.
Well, yeah, because the US has been waging a genocide since its founding.
Intentionally misdefining the word genocide doesnt make you right tho
What part of uighur culture was erased, exactly, by funding schools, arresting foreign violent religious extremists, and building affordable housing?
Are you saying uighurs are all violent, uneducated, homeless people and should remain that way due to their culture?
Just a reminder before you do the next state dept line, there are more mosques in every major Chinese city than there are in the state of New York.
With a pic of winnie the pooh himself in every one.
A genocide which was proven to be false by UN, Organization of Islamic Cooperation and the World Bank. All of which found no issues in the region. In 2019 July, the 41st session of the UN Human Rights Council met and voted on two opposing letters regarding Xinjiang. 50 countries voted in favor of China’s policies and 22 voted against.
On 2019 October 29, at the 74th session of the UN General Assembly, 24 countries and the EU criticized China and 57 countries supported China
A great wiki piece, though obviously biased(as any piece of information is, no matter how much they say ):https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Vocational_Education_and_Training_Centers
I’m on .ml and I’ve said plenty of critical stuff against China, the mods are chill and in general it’s been a really solid community.
That being said, I’m a hardcore leftist, so even though as an anarchist, I am strongly at odds with many statist solutions, I agree with the vast majority of leftist underlying critiques of sociopolitical issues.
You won’t get banned from ML for that. You will get banned from .world for saying China does good things though
Was banned for exactly that from .ml way before most were even on it. Remember Prismo, yeah you don’t. .ml admins are single-handedly responsible for why Lemmy adoption is so poor.
Btw, Lemmy logs are transparent so it wouldn’t even take that long to prove you wrong but I’m not wasting my time here on this mess. Do it yourself if you truly want to know or chose to live in your own bubble of ignorance.
Lemmy logs being public is how I know you’re wrong: because everytime someone says they were banned just for saying something bad about China I can check and see they actually posting outrageous racism and misinformation
is that what this guy did? I didn’t know logs were public. Is there an efficient way to search them?
IME for most circumstances where you want it, this is the easiest way, at least on desktop. There’s a similar choice behind the three dots menu of posts, also.
Hey thanks. Turns out I’m actually banned from at least one community. They think I’m a bot. Beep boop.
EDIT: Actually, I think that must have been lifted. I commented there earlier today and the post has upvotes so I assume people can see it. Is there any way to be notified when both banning and subsequent unbanning happens? The Modlog doesn’t mention the unbanning part of the equation.
Orange button in the community sidebar, next to the list of mods
I mean .world 100% sucks lol, and people should definitely move off it, but I’d also like people to move off .ml or any other general purpose instance since centralization on any one instance can cause issues imo. I’m considering switching off of .ee for the same reason. I think it makes more sense to have specific instances for specific things, so that the admins of one instance can have more domain specific knowledge ideally.
.world specifically does seem like they can’t go more than a few weeks without some kind of drama though lol.
The .ml/tankie witch hunts on .world are what got me to jump. It’s just exhausting.
.ml sucks too. When I’ll move, it’ll be some super niche instance or self hosted.
Post got removed in .world for not being a “news source” even though Klippenstein is definitely a very established independent journalist,
Unsurprising from .world
.world doesn’t allow journalism
Their allowed articles are “Israel expands defensive buffer zone in Syria”.
Top lol.
This guy is a reminder that health is the most important thing in life. He lost his health which led him to lose it all.
He lost it all because of capitalism.
He lost it all because of ISM.
Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty
This is either disinformation or whatever asshole wrote this doesn’t know US history.
You can still see the scars in the JP Morgan building in wall street from the horse drawn carriage bomb that was set against those greedy corporate assholes after the arrest of Sacco and Vanzetti in 1920
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_bombing
We have a long history of defending against their violence
I can definitely see why someone not as well versed in anarchist history could believe that, or if they specifically meant against the insurance industry. Either way though, I think it’s important for people to know about that history of violence that led to meaningful social reforms. So many Americans think that workers rights, civil rights, and everything short of the
abolishmentrebranding of slavery was won through voting or peaceful protests.Too many people believe that somehow a state has some divine morality granted to it, and justice can only happen within the confines of said state. No moral act can be carried out without the government sanctioning it, and any miscarriage of justice by the state is an abnormality.
There may be a monopoly on violence held by states against their people, but this doesn’t give them some inherent right to be the ultimate arbiters of justice. Something being legal does not make it moral, and just because an act is illegal doesn’t make it immoral.
1920? A horse drawn carriage bomb lol. Surely and clearly he was talking about modern day. Dudes 26, been remotely conscious for like 15 years maybe, people have grown complacent.
People are no more complacent in 2024 than they were in 1920. One major difference, however, is greater concentration of wealth and news outlets.
We used to have hundreds of anarchist newspapers in circulation. When was the last time you read an article written in your local anarchist newspaper?
We still have leftist collectives and many produce articles, podcasts, films, etc. But I think its harder to come across it today than when news was printed on physical paper
He acknowledges that work in the writing, saying that there are others that who had laid out the arguments about class conflict better than him. The “facing it with brutal honesty” he was referring to was shooting a CEO in the street. Not writing anarchist newspapers and starting leftist collectives. And again, his perspective is clearly from the last decade or two when this kind of action is happening even less in the U.S.
Are you not familiar with Alexander Berkman? Learn your history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Berkman#Attentat:_Frick_assassination_attempt
Maybe if you were reading your anarchist monthly, you’d be more familiar with historic and recent actions that use nonviolent and violent tactics to defend the working class from the violent oppression of the oligarchs.
Find your local anarchist bookstore. Read their books.
1891??? You’re grasping at straws and ignoring my comments.
One major difference, however, is greater concentration of wealth and news outlets.
Yes. There’s exponentially higher levels of exposure to brainwashing propaganda in 2024 vs. 1920, to unsafe levels of consumption.
Against the healthcare insurance industry?
I mean if you want to get extremely specific then, maybe. I would be surprised if this was the first defensive violent action against the private healthcare industry.
That would make a good article, to document this history…
To the Feds, I’ll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country.
Interesting to point this out. This seems more like a liberal radicalized out of circumstance than a Marxist or Anarchist. I wonder what his course would have looked like had he channeled his energy into organizing and reading theory, would he have made the same decisions, or not?
Yeah based on his goodreads and other social media he’s definitely more of US style Libertarian or conservative. He tweeted some stuff about wokeness and DEI, some of the new athiesm junk about how athiests replace Christianity with worship of social issues, and seemed to like Elon Musk. He also didn’t seem to be fully committed to the ideology though, he had real criticisms of Jordan Peterson and he seemed to be an environmentalist. He honestly just kinda seems like a normal, if privileged, person. He has a mix of political ideas, some which don’t necessarily mesh, and is willing to criticize some of the people he agrees with.
But if anything him being someone who seemed to like CEOs, who grew up pretty wealthy, being radicalized by the industry is kinda a stronger message about how unless you’re one of the corporate elite you don’t matter to them.
Very few people fit neatly into a political label. We tend to be all over the place on political issues.
Yes and no. Among leftists, most do fit into fairly neat labels, because leftist ideology is that of consistent frameworks. Among liberals, there doesn’t need to be as much consistency because its the status quo and doesn’t need to be consistent ideologically.
Not many people are pure leftists though. We all have our inherent biases based on things like social class, upbringing, religion, nationality, etc. Just because a consistent framework is there doesn’t mean people just fit so well into it.
That’s the funny thing about leftism being objectively logically and ethically correct. The framework of theory also consistently addresses those exact points and material conditions.
Do you have resources expanding on this? Beyond the communist manifesto?
6·11 days agoCowbee has an intro reading list: https://lemmy.ml/post/22417306
The anarchist library is pretty good if you’re interested in anarchist theory.
The FAQ is a great starting point, I’d recommend jumping around though, it’s easier to get specific answers than reading straight through imo.
The librarian picks would also probably be a good place to look, one of the recommendations there is Emma Goldman who is great.
The left-right dichotomy is not about political philosophy, but attitudes towards the status quo and hierarchies.
The frameworks are consistent and have “correct” conclusions, which means over time individual biases erode into established tendencies.
Rarely. Humans can be very inconsistent due to their inherent biases and emotions. If what you say were true we would have been able to observe it take place by now.
We can and do, that’s why tendencies are well established.
It’s important to distinguish within a political philosophy the normative values that inform it and the actual strategy, if any, that it prescribes. Especially on the left, there is an extremely large amount of common ground with respect to normative values, and what distinguishes the different tendencies almost always boils down to little more than arguing about why the other person’s strategy will actually not work and why their strategy is what we need to be doing. But like something else I notice is very rarely do people actually engage with the context of situations and they also think in very absolute terms which makes them feel like by identifying with a particular tendency they are attached to and constrained by it. What’s even more interesting to me is this common ground doesn’t even end at the left and quite frankly even the average politically disengaged individual will agree with so many of the normative values expressed by leftists, and with a thoughtful rhetorical approach can usually be made to see all of these issues for what they are.
this is all to say that the idea of being any particular kind of “-ist” in the sense that it means you can’t be also at the same time critically engaging with or even simultaneously identifying with other kinds of “-isms” has for a very long time felt extremely incoherent to me and even worse is when people try to project these labels with certainty (typically at the exclusion of other possible labels, no less, other labels which are simply assumed to be impossible to synthesize together) onto others on the basis of random public statements they have made.
I think it’s also the fact that there tends to be a ton of specific labels for different leftist subgroups too, stuff like anarcho-mutualism is similar but not the same as syndicalism, or blanket libertarian socialism, etc. That and the fact that most people will self identify as one of the moderate labels like conservative or centrist or liberal, and do so in spite of their beliefs, not because of them. People who reflect enough on their ideas and desired policies will tend to be a bit more consistent about them and the labels they use to describe them.
Definitely yeah, stuff like the political compass have been awful for nuance in discussions.
Spoken like an OG D&D player 🤌🏼
Funnily enough my only exposure to D&D was from Baldurs Gate 3. I’ll take it as a compliment though.
You know… as common as it is to label and group and classify people online, I just don’t think that generally works the vast majority of the time.
Usually people acting for ideological reasons have ideological motivations.
US neo libertarians are taught by the Koch brothers to despise all government regulation and enforcement agencies, except those that keep poor people from taking rich people’s money
Interesting read. However this turns out, not a huge fan of .world removing it, similar to the centralized sites you’d expect to suppress stuff. Stopped following their news thread for this reason as I don’t need my information moderated- can do that myself.
o7
There goes my heroooo
Removed by mod
I think the word was coerced and got corrected to corrected. Just a heads up! Also agree with you.
