The word futa or futanari is a term I unfortunately see used against trans women and actual intersex people. It is a term which originated in porn and anime to describe someone with both types of genitals, usually though it just refers to someone who looks feminine and has a penis. So it’s no surprise it’s very often used to describe non-op trans women primarily. Because it’s often used in porn it carries strong connotations of sexualization and dehumanization, it reduces the person being called futa to an object of sexual desire and doesn’t respect them as a person.
This term is extremely disrespectful and really has no place being used, especially in reference to trans women. Additionally because of its relation to porn people who use it will almost certainly be seen as chasers.
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To repost what I said in c/intersex;
As a student of Japanese, most of your post is just flat-out incorrect. Futanari, the Rōmaji or Romanization of “ふたなり” comes from “二形” which I believe is either Chinese or just old Japanese. It means hermaphrodite, literally “two” and “form.” It was later picked up as a common trope name for hermaphroditic characters in erotic manga, typically seen as attractive women who possess both vulvae and penises. Yes, it has become a genre of pornography, but it is false to say it originated there.
However, it is a question of what the word means and how it is used. Most people who speak English know it as a porn category from manga like you said. However, I would like to strongly resist your statement that it describes someone who “looks feminine and has a penis.” The Japanese have a word for this: “トランスジェンダー” which is just “transgender.” It’s a loan word from English describing TRANSGENDER PEOPLE. While ふたなり (futanari) can be used to describe a transgender person, it would likely be seen as either woefully archaic or just incorrect. As in English, hermaphrodite describes someone with both sets of sexual organs. Futanari is the Japanese equivalent, more or less. Is hermaphrodite a slur for trans people? Not really. It’s a medical term, as old as the myth of Hermaphroditus, who is the namesake for the term. I presume futanari is just as old.
I think the rest of your arguments fall apart at this point. It’s not a “porn term,” it’s a term that was appropriated by porn. Claiming an entire word in Japanese is a slur because of its use in porn and it’s loan-word status in English is frankly a bit colonial. Beyond that, as a female-presenting intersex person with a reconstructed penis and a sewn-shut vulva, I have often times thought of myself as futanari. I like the word a lot better than hermaphrodite because of my religion, comparing oneself to a God is pretty fuckin’ disrespectful in my opinion. So, I like futanari.
So, with all that said, I disagree with you. I don’t think it’s a slur, and I use it to describe myself sometimes. I don’t know what other word I would use in Japanese to describe myself in that way. ふたなりです。
While ふたなり (futanari) can be used to describe a transgender person, it would likely be seen as either woefully archaic or just incorrect
It may be both of those things, but in English, it’s still used a porn stand in for porn involving trans women
because of its use in porn and it’s loan-word status in English is frankly a bit colonial
The conversation here is explicitly about the loan word in english, not about the way it’s used in Japanese
Is hermaphrodite a slur for trans people?
Yes
I want to say this and make it clear. I as a person with an intersex condition strongly resent and despise the idea of someone calling me a hermaphrodite, it is a demeaning term to refer to intersex people as, as well as completely inaccurate because we are not hermaphrodites. The English word hermaphrodite should not be used to describe a human person in any capacity, to do so is wrong from a scientific and logical standpoint but is also wrong as this word carries extreme pejorative connotations when used against intersex people, and it is straight up transphobic when used against trans women.
So yes I maintain that in 90% or more of the English use cases of it, it is indeed a slur and shouldn’t be used. And to describe hermaphrodites it really shouldn’t be used to describe any human person. I know that Japan has had problems with trans understanding and acceptance and frankly I don’t care. If your language’s terms are perjorative due to lack of understanding then use different terms, which from what you said looks like they’re already doing, good on them.
As someone who’s studied japanese myself. Please stop romantizising japanese. It’s not some sort of fantasy place unconnected to the rest of the world.
You know it’s used for porn there too right?
This is the reason weeb is a slur too 😮💨
why are some even arguing against this? it clearly makes people super uncomfortable, are you just gonna tell them it’s all in their head?
I had kinda wondered about this.
There was always a chance it would jump from its origin to the real world. Tbh, I’m a little surprised I hadn’t found out it had before now. It’s depressing, for a number of reasons.
I wanna crack a joke about weebs, but damn, I only wish it was just that segment that would call a human being that. I know damn good and well it isn’t some kind of narrow, isolated thing, or it wouldn’t have gotten to the point this post was necessary.
I truly hope your circles don’t run into this often.
Was based on an incident involving a lemmy.world user yesterday but I thought it deserved some attention since there are still people who think that word is okay when it’s not.
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I’d consider it to be used as a slur if someone came in here and asked for a hug from the hermaphrodite in a meme someone posted, too.
We’re also not speaking Japanese, we’re speaking English, and how the English speaking population uses it is what is relevant. Search “futanari” with safe search off and tell me it’s not a porn term.
Also in Japan trans people aren’t really seen as normal people, they are seen as an object of fetishization, or ridicule. It isn’t a positive or endearing term. Japan generally isn’t very accepting of trans people, in ways that other more liberal countries are, so this isn’t surprising.
I’m wary of jumping into this thread, but openly trans person in Japan here. I have encountered nothing but acceptance and kindness.
Let’s be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush.
Sorry it came out wrong, what I mean is that Japan struggles with understanding trans, GNC, and intersex issues so may use words in their language that are wrong or even invaliating. Like using a word for crossdressers to refer to trans people, or using a word for hermaphrodite to describe trans or intersex people. They’re used to it and maybe don’t mean harm, but they are still hurtful and pejorative terms that don’t work so well nowadays, better to use other, more accurate words even if one has to pull them from English. I admit I’m a dumb weeb (not even I don’t watch nearly that much anime) but I recognize how harmful some of those words are, and how much they really shouldn’t be used.
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Do you think it wouldn’t be sexual harassment to bring it up in an unrelated context because an image was posted of someone you thought was sexy?
Because this isn’t hypothetical, this happened yesterday in one of the LBZ communities. That’s what this post is about. Maybe don’t come in hot to explain to everyone how actually it’s a perfectly fine term to use.
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Then look in the mod log. You know you can just do that and ctrl + F “futa”, right? Maybe while you’re doing that you could write out a scenario that you imagine would be appropriate to use that in a post, so you can see how little resemblance it bears to what actually happened.
It’s clear you’ve been seething about your first account ban from here ever since it happened and haven’t learned anything from it. If you’re just here to yell at trans people about how they’re oversensitive and wrong, take a fucking moral inventory my dude.
Even if you could search by a term used in the comment/post and not just by user, action taken, or the mod making the action, do you know how little that would narrow it down?
Who was the user?
And no; I don’t think trans people are overly sensitive. Just this specific instance on Lemmy.
Check the modlog in Egg_irl, does that answer your question? That’s as much as I should help you, you were already banned in the past for arguing and debating what is and isn’t queerphobic.
You should not be using the term “hermaphrodite” to describe any trans person, in that context it is demeaning and invalidating. Also you should never describe intersex people as “hermaphrodites” we are by in large not hermaphrodites and using this term against us is hurtful and invalidating. Fuck off with this bigoted apologia.
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Again, have you actually seen someone using the term disparagingly against someone
That was literally the reason this thread was posted.
You have previously been instance banned specifically for coming in to a trans space to complain about trans folk not being supportive of your “allyship”, and here you are again, in a trans meta community, arguing with gender diverse folk over objectifying terms levelled against our community.
Did you not learn anything last time?
Pull your head in
Do you really think a single instance of someone using the term in an offensive way demands banning of the term entirely?
I agree it shouldn’t be used as a slur; but if there’s only been one example of it used that way, this is a massive fucking overreaction to it and that’s what I am butting my head against with this instance. The community’s overreaction to the smallest of perceived slights.
The term is universally objectifying and sexualised when used against trans people, because it defines trans folk by their genitals and does so in a sexualised way.
It’s one thing for a trans person to use the term for themselves, but yes, if someone else comes along and uses that term at a trans person without explicit consent, it absolutely deserves a ban and will get one.
And from your perspective, this is the end of the discussion. If you come back with more arguments or pushback against gender diverse folk talking in their own communities about terms referring to us, you will be getting a second instance ban. It’s time to take onboard what you’ve heard, and bow out of this conversation.
It seems like the intent is what matters here. If someone is speaking in English and wants to to say hermaphrodite or dual form, they can say that, not Futanari.
