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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by indigosfindings:
imagine if someone just like started addressing you as Dipshit, like youre just talking about your day & they say “no way Dipshit, that’s crazy.” and then maybe you say to them that you would prefer not to be addressed as Dipshit & their response is “well in my major metropolitan area ‘Dipshit’ is not considered an insult. im not saying i think youre stupid when i call you Dipshit, i call my mom dipshit all the time” so you say Thats cool but please dont call Me that. and then they just repeat that it’s something they say daily, they call all of their best friends & lovers dipshits & are called dipshit in return. “my grandma calls me dipshit at the dinner table, it doesnt mean anything.” so you say Yes i understand that your friends & grandma arent bothered by being called Dipshit but i am, & i would prefer if you didnt address me as that. and they say “it’s literally not possible for me to stop calling you dipshit, and it’s not reasonable for you to ask me to, dipshit.” anyway this post is about nothing in particular
one more report and I’m locking this whole mf thread
I understand this is a controversial topic but y’all need to behave your damn selves
The basics are:
- This is fundamentally a discussion about hurtful language, including slurs. I don’t mind them being mentioned / referenced (in fact I would argue it’s important to talk about them), but I’m not going to tolerate them being directed at people. This is y’alls final warning on that. I’ve removed some comments already but after this I’m just going to start handing out bans.
- I know there’s alternate interfaces for Lemmy, but on the basic version I’m familiar with, under each comment there is a button on the left end of the bar of buttons with three dots and a little arrow indicating additional options. If you press it, you will find that you have the option to “block” other users. This function will make it so that you no longer have to see anything they post or interact with them. This is a fantastic feature that I highly recommend utilizing in the event that someone says something you find upsetting that does not break the rules of this comm or instance.
As an Australian, what the fuck us this cunt talking about
“Is it possible to learn this allegory?”
“Not from the Daily Wire.”
This is obviously about Australians calling their mates “cunts”.
hey cunt!
I thought this was a post about the overuse of “dude”
Shuddap you fundark.
I’m personally kind of reminded of how “faggot” and “dyke” are being “taken back” and used jokingly/sarcastically, but I still get really uncomfortable if someone uses them with me. They’ll say “oh I don’t mean it offensively!” But it’s not really up to you to decide what’s offending another person or not.
Yeah, it’s like people say “Please don’t call me that,” and instead the person who called them that hears “You did something wrong for calling me that,” and they get defensive. It’s one of those things that, once you notice, you’ll see it everywhere. Not just about nicknames. It could be anything. It’s like no matter what you say in response they just view it like you’re angry or saying they’re a bad person. “I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but I don’t like it and would prefer that you didn’t.” Nope. Some folks just can’t comprehend it. “I know other people are okay with it. I’m not saying you should stop calling them that.” Nope! Their ego is now in defense mode lol.
I have one friend who uses the R word and insists it’s to reclaim the term, but they almost exclusively use it in a self-degrading manner. They seem to be the only one in their circle that uses the word, and they’ve had lively arguments over whether or not it’s a word to reclaim. I’ve stayed out of it but when the only person I’ve encountered who says they’re trying to reclaim a slur seems to be using it to degrade themselves, I question if it’s worth even trying to reclaim. It’s just a word, let it be entirely forgotten to the sands of time like “forsooth” and any other words I don’t know because they’ve left virtually all people’s lexicons
I can be such a forsooth sometimes.
I once had someone tell me very very earnestly that the word Queer - a word I literally marched under in protest - was the worst most horrible slur ever, then turn around and use fruit.
Baby comm members need naptime methinks
Some older folks have a genuine visceral reaction to “queer” because, whether it’s been taken back or not, you can’t just psychologically undo a lifetime of that word having been weaponized against you.
Tbf, that word in it’s original definition literally means “Weird” or “Unnatural”. Like: “A circle in the triangle factory? How queer!”
As for all the other words and their association with LGBTQ I have no clue.
I’m fine with it as an adjective, not a noun, which I’m aware is a pretty fine distinction for a lot of people.
But I also use it exactly because of the reason you describe.
I don’t just want scrubbed white monogamous wealthy gay men like Peter Thiel and Neal Patrick Harris to be free, I want everyone to be free, particularly when their self expression is highly unusual.
There never needs to be a square liberation movement, but there will always be a need for queer liberation.
I grew up with those words being common and I hope they don’t come back in any form. They’re very damaging even to straight males. But I’m sure as long as there’s a counter culture they won’t go away.
Case in point, I’ve been getting really into Latin dance, taking group classes, taking private classes, etc. the people that I see dance that look amazing are having a lot of fun with the dance and the music, the body movements, everything. When I try to move a certain way with my hips there’s this fucking voice in my head that’s snickering saying “gay” and if I can get out of my own fucking head and just feel the music, feel myself and connect with who I’m dancing with I have a great time and I get a lot of compliments. I hate that even when I know it’s wrong and even completely illogical the fear of being perceived as feminine or weak is something that I have to struggle with on a personal level.
I’ve been transitioning for 10 years and these thoughts still haunt me sometimes 🙃
That’s how I feel about the Q
New response if TERFism:
“Ok dipshit”
It’s like when I lived in Miami and everyone called me “gringo” or “flaco.” When I asked them to stop they would say it was endearing. But imagine if I called them “removed” or “fatty” what their reaction would be.
I assume you mean Gordo and not gringo. Gringo for anyone interested literally means Greek, and in Spanish it is slang for anyone who doesn’t speak Spanish. It’s really not an insult, at least in US Spanish there we offensive terms for white people, so. There’s that. But I know people really freak out about ‘‘Gordo’’ and it really isn’t like calling fatty, it’s a lot more like calling someone Bubba. Bubba isn’t a slur, it’s southern slang meaning bubble, and it’s for people who have roundness. They don’t even have to be tubby. We called my youngest brother Gordo and Goose. Idk why Goose. But Gordo was because he was a fat baby. He’s in his 30s now, tall, pretty muscular, in the military. Still call him Gordo. No one calls me flaco anymore. They don’t call me Gordo either. I think I’m too fat… they call me papi, because I look a lot like my grandfather now and that’s what we called him.
Yeah this post is about you.
I mean it’s very common for fat men to be nicknamed “gordo” ie fatty. Of course it’s ignorant but definitely not meant offensively.
Fatty? Is that a slur for something? Or was everybody there just overweight?
Translating is always perilous. My dad said never do it. But I wouldn’t translate Gordo to fatty. It’s not old slang, it’s not out of date, and it’s not culturally offensive. It’s more like calling your son ‘‘bread ball’’ or ‘‘Lil biscuit’’ or something you’d lovingly call a chubby baby.
Flaco means skinny
Ohhhhhh… That took me a second to understand.
Reminds me of Nelson Piquet, a former F1 driver, calling Lewis Hamilton a Neguinho when he was talking about current day F1 drivers in an interview. He called every driver by their name except Hamilton. Then Piquet and his brother ofcourse went with the “that’s how we always call each other even my grandma calls me that” defense
Generally being nice to other people is a good thing. It makes the world a nicer place for everyone. And in cases like this, it seems like it is pretty easy to be nice - just don’t call that person ‘dipshit’. That just seems like a very low-cost way to show the person that you respect them.
I understand the desire to have people use your pronouns, and as long as one can see what gender you are “presenting”, one should use those pronouns.
If someone prefers other pronouns, then I’m sorry… Many people (me included) have a hard time remembering names… I wouldn’t have a chance remembering a large set of different pronouns if I can’t even remember the names of that person. A pronoun is a non specific way of addressing someone and a break life saver like “you”…
To to switch to an all inclusive them/they for everybody seems overreaching.
If it’s not obvious what pronouns someone prefers, then they shouldn’t be annoyed if someone makes repeatedly mistakes.
And this makes it hard to distinguish a mistake from an insult…
It isn’t about remembering names, it’s about being willing to use the correct one when informed. Exchange pronouns for proper names to test the concept.
If you forget someone’s name and you think it is ‘Pat’ but it is actually ‘Kelly’ would you continue to call them '
KellyPat’after remembering that it is ‘PatKelly’?*Edit: I love that I mixed myself up even in my example. But to prove my point I’ll call the correction out and be fine with that.
My problem (and many others I guess) is that i won’t remember Pat or Kelly the next time. And the next time. And the next time etc etc. Especially if I only see her ever so often. No chance to remember special pronouns beyond what gender they present. He/she/him/her is relatively easy (but not always…) them/they or anything else they prefer seems overly complicated in a social setting.
But if I remember the name and intentionally use others to taunt you, then yes, I would be a cunt. And I try not to be one…
The problem isn’t someone getting a pronoun wrong on occasion. It’s when someone deliberately uses the wrong one, and often times stresses the the pronunciation, in order to make sure you know they choose to use the wrong one deliberately.
If they act like cunts, we should call them cunts. But I totally understand that’s not possible in all situations, like when you have a person in power cunting all over you.
If the same person repeatedly makes the same mistake after being corrected it’s fair to think that person might be an asshole.
Saved
Ok, but what is it about?
Think of something you wouldn’t like to be called, and that’s it.
- Slurs in general
- Misgendering
the way i interpreted it is that it’s about the “but dude/man/bro is gender neutral!” thing, when someone expresses that they don’t like being referred to using masculine terms
Edit: this is tangential to the real point of the post, which is just to not call people things they don’t like.
Bro is harder to argue for sure.
And man, unless it’s more, “oh man, that’s rough” as an excalamatory rather than “good to see you man” is still gendered.
But dude has never been gendered. It was mostly used by guys towards guys, but the origins of that usage (rather than dude ranches or the derogatory term related to that) it was applied to everyone. Dudette came along later but was essentially created because the usage was male dominated, not because dude was gendered. It’s one of the rare gender neutral, inclusive slang terms. So much so that when dudette was thrown around, it got rejected as unnecessary, and was sometimes taken offensively. Same with dudina and dudess.
Mind you, the era where it was mostly an underground slang used in African American circles is murkier, since it was underground, less written at the time, and after it got “borrowed” by white kids lost its popularity there.
But when surfer culture picked it up, and it spread via movies, female surfers were called dude, and used it the same way as female surfers. They were just such a minority that the association didn’t stick in pop culture because what got seen was Spicoli, and the association with it as being used by guys about guys got absorbed as the primary usage.
There was no gender division in that origin, nor was there a need for it. There simply wasn’t a female specific alternative to dude.
Since it is still used inclusively far more than it isn’t, it’s usually better to assume the best rather than the worst. Someone duding someone in a casual and friendly way is unlikely to be using it as a gendered term. It’s more like buddy, or pal, or even mate than something like bro that started gendered and is still predominantly used that way.
I think that your intentions are good, but you’re missing the point. If someone doesn’t like what you’re calling them, just don’t call them that. I don’t think if someone was called dude and didn’t like it, that they would assume the worst, they would just ask you to please not call them that.
Sure, I probably should have specified I was going on a tangent rather than commenting on the post directly. Gonna edit that in. Thank you :)
Yeah, dude doesn’t really bother me, but the others, as well as “guys,” do. Bro has a natural feminine version: “sis.” So does man: “woman” or “girl.” Likewise for guys: “gals” or “girls.” Making them gender neutral just causes confusion IMO, we should instead just use different terms w/o any gender association, such as “fellow,” “friend,” “home slice/skillet” (the 90s kid in me really wants that to come back), or the others you mentioned.
But yeah, dude is totally fine as a gender-neutral term due to surfer culture taking it over. But the others are a lot harder sell for me.
But yes, be excellent to each other. If your female friend wants to be called “bro,” go nuts.
I’d really like to find a nice, neutral term for referring to people myself, but I haven’t yet found something that feels right for me yet. I’ve never said fellows, since I seem to lean back towards ‘fellas’, which kind of remakes the issue at hand.
And as cool as homeslice or skillet are, I’m not sure those are quite ‘me’ lol. Guess there’s only one way to find out.
See ya, homedawg.
Sorry for the mostly tangent, but I guess I’m also more sensitive about terms than I realized.
My sister got married after dating her husband for about six months. On the day of the wedding, my new BIL started calling me “sis” even though it was the third time we’d met.
I actually like him quite a lot now and I’m very glad that they’re married, but woof did that rub me the wrong way. I don’t think anyone has ever called me sis before or since with the exception of drunk women in the bathroom (and I have, all told, eight siblings, step siblings, and siblings in law).
Not to poke, but the other day at work I walked up to a group of women and just casually said, “hey guys” without even thinking about it. The reaction was absent. It was just a simple response back, “hey how’s it going?”
After I said it, I was like in my own head, “huh, that was odd.”
Yeah, it’s more acceptable these days among younger women (i.e. a recent grad at my work says “hey guys” all the time), but not as much with older women. So maybe it’ll eventually be fine for pretty much everyone, but for now, I think it’s still weird, and I’m a little sad that it’s being repurposed (i.e. “going out w/ the guys” isn’t as clear any more).
I do actually call my mom bro, but if like, a friend or coworker said “don’t call me that” I just wouldn’t do it.
Yeah, I definitely see those as contextually non-gendered, but the moment someone asks me not to call them a certain thing… I just don’t call them that again, and apologize if I do. It takes almost 0 effort to use a different word.
I call my husband bro, and while he is a dude, he’s definitely not my brother (also he calls me bro and I’m a woman ish).
But yeah, talking to people in a way they dislike is making the world unhappier for no reason.
My first thought was “queer.” I know people who hate being called queer, but others still call them that anyway because they’re “taking back the word” or something like that
This is the only one that I haven’t been able to drop from growing up in the early 2000s. I’m good about not saying it in public, but if it’s just the boys playing games or something all bets are off haha
May I ask where?
Doesn’t fly in San Francisco but hear it from elsewhere; have been surprised to see it on Lemmy as well!
There’s not really a suitable replacement unfortunately
Take your pick, really. I can think of a couple of things just off the top of my head.
