- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
- 404media@rss.ponder.cat
- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
- 404media@rss.ponder.cat
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Don’t be so negative. By 2035, a 2500 dollar us made iPhone might be possible.
Because of the child laborers making 85 cents an hour?
Inflation
Yeah but by 2035 the US dollar will be worth about 8 pence. If they’re lucky.
I’m hoping for 1USD = 1 yen, then were really going to be #winning by stealing all of the Japanese manufacturing industry!
That would make building a $2500 iPhone in the US even more difficult.
Good luck getting all the materials needed for that now that China has stopped exports to the US.
IPhone 17:
Physical keys and what looks like a headphone jack? Seems like an upgrade
Replacable battery, I bet
Every 20-30 minutes…
I’ve seen M.A.S.H.. You can just crank the handle a few times to charge it!
Only $4000 for the entry model. That’s how much it costs once the tariffs on the semiconductors that you simply cannot produce in the country for at least 10 more years even if you tried has been covered, the salaries high enough to motivate people to willingly work the assembly lines now that immigrant workers are gone, and the markup needed to cover the cost of completely creating an entire supply chain from scratch as well as paying back the insane debt that results from the outrageous high risk investments this would require and that frankly no investor would want to touch with a 10 foot pole.
That is before Apple levels of profit added on, right? Otherwise that seems a bit low.
Or the Google tax of a few hundred bucks for the OS. Which could happen. Google is worse than Micro$uck at this point and I say this as someone who returned their OEM license before. See Revolution OS https://youtu.be/k0RYQVkQmWU
Even Linux is now weaponized for profits over anything else…:.::.
So argument invalid
?? Google pays Apple to put their search in Apple’s OS
If they slap an Apple logo on it the gullible sheep would buy it anyway.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
I’d looooove a return of the brick phone. Modern phones feel small and dainty in my giant hands. Meanwhile, battery life absolutely sucks. I’d love a modern brick phone that does calls, text and nothing else. And a battery life of a fulm week.
Had a Sony Ericsson W580i back in high school. It was a slide phone. 15 hours talk, 570 hours standby. That’s nearly 24 days of standby. I charged it maybe every two weeks. It was tiny(So not great in your hands I guess). We don’t need unwieldy huge phones for good battery life. Still had a basic browser and was part of the ‘Sony Walkman’ lineup so was a decent enough music player. Modern phones are just power hungry cause they have about ~12x the power of my first desktop computer.
Crap photo but shows many angles.
Sure, plenty of small phones with good battery life back then. Owned a new phone every three months or so, innovation went that fast in the 90’s.
But those small phones have a few drawbacks. Too small for my hands and you can’t really shoulder it like we used to with landlines.
I also mis proper flip phones like the Motorola Startac. You could snap those closed with authority. Can’t quite do that with those modern folding screen flips.
Oooh! I had this back in the day. It was absolutely fantastic. I would love for this to come back again. I miss physical buttons and being able to do everything on the phone with one hand.
This model was pretty cool!
My last Sony Ericsson was the S710
I’ll take my Motorola Razr back from the early 00s.
Whether I do Captain Kirk impressions with it in the privacy of my own home is my business…
I’m genuinely surprised Trump killed the CHIPS act, when he could’ve let that roll through and taken credit for it as the whole POINT of that was to improve US manufacturing.
Also reintroduce the build back better with whatever re-branding.
If he were truly interested in american manufacturing he’d have gone all in on these.
But no. he wants company owners and worldl eaders to come to him and beg for exemptions.
He wants to get rid of everything associated with bEYEden and also wants to stick it to CHAIna.
I’m not surprised.
The name of the game here is to destroy America, not build it up. (Russia wants a USSR-style fall of America. The Cold War never ended for them.) And Trump wants to stay out of jail. Everything you see Trump or his admin doing can be attributed to those two things. Destroying America, or keeping himself out of Jail.
Eh, I think it’s more that Trump wants attention. The CHIPS act is bad because Biden gets credit for it, not Trump. Tariffs are good because Trump gets to force other countries to come to the US to negotiate with him. Whether the deal at the end is good or bad is irrelevant, what matters is that Trump’s name is in the news and attached to those deals.
Trump isn’t going to jail, so I highly doubt he cares much about avoiding it. He mostly cares about people talking about him, and it’s working.
I think Musk is the same way, but he does seem to care about the tech his name is attached to as well. So that’s likely to cause huge issues soon as Musk and Trump butt heads more and more.
As a European I fully support comrade Trump in his successful endeavor of destroying the imperialist and fascist US state.
Don’t talk nonsense. Trump will destroy America and take Europe down the same path if he gets the chance.
The breakdown of trust in the Atlantic alliance alone is one of the worst things that could have happened to both sides and this is just the beginning. They’re going to fuck themselves and they’re going to fuck us in the process.
I hope our EU government get some sense and stop acting like the vasals they are.
This could be the push we need.
The US never were our friends and this ‘alliance’ is nothing more than being in their sphere of influence and serving their interests. Bcs they are losing power in the world they are now canibalising their own side.
Who said ‘there will be no more Nordstream’?
And then in a pure act of terror blew it up forcing us to buy 8x more expensive US fracking gas.
Not one peep from our sell-out leaders.
We needed to drop this horrible country long time ago, regardless of Trump.
The EU is not as detached from global economics as you seem to believe it is. The fall of the US will have world wide implications, for many generations.
The EU is not as detached from global economics as you seem to believe it is
I never said that, but it needs to be done.
We need to cut ties before they drag us down further.
Our economy is already going to shit with the high energy prices caused by them blowing up Nordstream.
And that was under Genocide Joe.
I would rather have an incompetent moron in charge of the country seeing us as vasals since forever.
And if it’s up to them they will gladly see us all at war again like WW2.
Their competition destroying themselves while they benefit and sell arms.Fuck that whole country
Do you have the phrase “out of the frying pan and into the fire” in Europe?
that doesn’t apply.
It’s better to distance ourselves from them before we get caught in their dumpster fire and also get burned.And how do you plan on doing that today? You are also delusional like Trump if you think you can just cut ties and happily watch US go up in flames. That simply isn’t gonna happen, certainly not before his current term ends.
It can happen pretty fast, look what Russia did with those sactions.
The EU, their neighbour, simply got replaced.
We can certainly do the same with the US.The USSR was not thoroughly embedded in the world economies. Nor did it have as staunch of allies in major positions in EU government as the US does today. Don’t get me wrong, despite being in the US, I do think that countries divesting and becoming less dependent upon a slave state, like the US, is a good thing. However, as the “Great Recession” demonstrated, EU economies are very much entangled with the US economy, with few lessons seeming to have been learned in the last decade and a half.
Sure, the US might be more impacted, but the EU will not be unscathed, if there isn’t more effort to decouple and ditch neoliberal policies. That kind of stuff can’t happen overnight.
Trump is a personality cult. It’s not rational and whatever. It’s about him and always has been.
I’m surprised that people like you are still surprised at what Trump does.
Understanding Trump is simple: he’s a narcissist. For example, if the CHIPS act succeeds, Biden gets credit, so it’s bad. It’s really quite simple.
Right, basically renamed. Trump wants the for credit. His opposition to Obama and Biden isn’t over policy, but that his name isn’t on it.
And what is THAT supposed to be?
I’ve been screaming about the republicans since they made it clear they were going for pure obstructionism with Obama.
Even if he had gone all in on manufacturing, it’s not like a supply network of industrial goods can be built in a day. Hell, it’s hard to build that in a 4-year term. Trump is virtue signalling while at the same time jeopardizing any chance America had of reshoring.
It’s honestly infuriating me how big projects needed to improve our infrastructure take years and years to complete, when from one administration to the next, those same projects can be cancelled.
It takes multiple presidencies to build something good, and it takes one to tear it all down.
I see now the benefits of China’s 5 year plans with how well organized they can control their economy.
I’d have to look into it more, but my gut tells me the CHIPS act & ‘Build Back Better’ was filled to the brim with pork & bullshit. You’d have to parse through, line by line, and take out all the shit. And hope all the changes get passed & implemented, and of course you’re still touting the worthless name of a project that your people hate that you didn’t even create. Or just blindly trust your opponent’s judgment calls & let it roll through, based on “just trust me, bro”. Nooooo thank you. Why bother?
With stuff like this, it tends to be easier & more expedient to take it behind the shed & shoot it. Replace it with your distinctly different, branded equivalent.
However. If this is true, it appears that Trump didn’t fully raze the CHIPS act & merely revamped it, is taking credit for it. Like you said. CHIPS must have been pretty true to cause.
Oh I’m sure there was pork there, but to just dismissi t out of hand is kinda disengenouls especially when all the politicians (mostly republican) that voted against it tried snapping up credit come time for the ribbon cutting and new construction to aged infrastructure.
Granted Manchan and Senna opposed the build back better initiative and both were explicitely paid off by fossil fuel industry wonks… And i figure if they’re in opposition, ‘I want it even more out of sheer fucking spite to you greedy assholes that make money killing the planet my niece is going to have to live in.’
They are promising to gut the CHIPS Act which would be needed to even think about doing this.
Can’t have a Biden law. Biden introduced that so it must be bad for the US.
I ran into this at work today. Proposed a very simple approach for something to an architect and an engineering lead. Engineering lead said this was a practical solution that solves a problem that’s been plaguing them for two years. The architect nearly immediately said, “well, the real source is a mainframe that was stood up in the very early 80s. Let’s ignore the fact that changing it takes an act of Congress or that we have multiple modern downstream systems between it and us that are a much better home for this new function.”
It really seemed to amount to, “I didn’t come up with this, therefore I don’t support it.”
Ah, corporate politics.
Architects and engineers are mortal enemies.
Apple tried this in the past. Who knew making special little screws was way more expensive to make in the US. Kind of sucks when you outsource all of your manufacturing …
They already tried “made in America” Apple products and they did not sell! Americans don’t want to pay $5K for an iPhone when they can pay 80% less for one made in China.
Ok but what if they cannot pay 80% less for one made in China?
What? They do. Apple sells tens of millions of iPhones each year in the US.
They did past tense. How about with a 140%+ tariff?
They’ll make iPhones in India. Which is actually what they are doing right now. Or in Vietnam. Or Ethiopia. You can’t tariff everyone 140% if you want your economy to work.
What if you dont want your economy to work?
Haha as if that will stop Trump
Well that sucks but they sure as hell won’t be able to buy one “made in America” either. The raw materials for batteries alone would have tariffs on them as well. Unless we have massive amounts of cobalt, lithium, copper, silicon, cadmium, etc, to be able to produce these items domestically, working class and middle class Americans will not be able to afford them.
Its looking more and more like the end result is just going to be millions of Americans will have to do without, Live with less.
and no doubt at the same time their oligarch fantasy-wealthy overlords will preach to them about Spartan values or something. Ultranationalist Jingo Ghouls will talk about how its tough times create strong men, or about how we all have to prepare for war with China or something.
Soon we can translate all the GDR jokes and use them for the US.
Its looking more and more like the end result is just going to be millions of Americans will have to do without, Live with less.
Phones are the de facto platform for two factor authentication of everything; I don’t see how society is going to walk backwards to phones being an optional luxury item.
the market will be taken over by cheaper, less “luxury” alternatives.
Maybe if wages actually rose with productivity, Americans could actually afford goods made within the United States.
It’s not even about wages. The precision tooling and engineering equipment would probably take a decade of development to get the US equivalent with China. We just don’t have it here.
And it’s not about rising wages with productivity. Americans by and large don’t want to work in factories or manufacturing. The pay would have to be astronomical to fill the needed positions.
wouldn’t higher wages make stuff cost more? I’m kinda confused
The sheer amount of money being removed by the 1 percent is regoddamndiculous. It’s something like 45 trillion dollars since wages diverged from productivity in 1975.
In a “frictionless vacuum”, yes. Real world economics is much more complex however and higher wages = higher product prices doesn’t quite hold true. Read productivity-pay gap.
That’s one of the issues with how we’ve (most western capitalist countries) been doing this.
People are struggling for money so minimum wage goes up. Labour to create things is now more expensive and prices go up.
There is only one solution and that’s to theoretically (or technically) eating the rich that are hoarding all of the wealth.
What really needs to stop is the obscene bonus culture. It is quite disgusting to keep reading a company needs to lay off 500 people only to then give some CEO a bonus of 15million. Or banks running a deep 9 digit number loss in a year but still the higher ups get a bonus for some reason or a vague years old contractual promise. The top should feel loss first before it “trickles down”, and honest pay for honest work should include the top as well.
And while I am at it, senseless management jobs should be allowed to be contested, no more “manager toiletpaper” who only shows up once a week to make an order, yet makes 5x the wages of people under him.
That would be one step in the theoretical eating of the rich, yes.
Instead of Vietnamese children making t-shirts to sell to the USA, they want American children to make t-shirts to sell to Vietnam.
This makes absolutely no fucking sense even from a nationalistic standpoint.
Nah man, they’ll start using the prisons for more then menial labor. You don’t have to pay them at all
But then they have to fill those prisons with more and more people. How can America just increase the crime rate on a whim?
glances briefly to American history
Oh right, shit.
Slavery never ended in the US, it just got better PR.
“Only prisoners can be sentenced to slave labor.”
Makes a while bunch of stuff punishable by prison time and makes prison sentences longer.
Just ask AI to do it for you
They’ll slash wages and say it’s because of AI, and it is. But not because AI actually makes the process any more efficient, but just that it’s a good excuse to slash wages.
not to mention one of the reasons we eagerly off-shored electronics fabrication in the first place is because it’s a toxic nightmare
Toxic as in workplace relations or toxic as in environmental effects? Or some other third meaning?
environmental effects
Fortune article last year just talked about water and power in just the chip sector: The chip industry’s dirty little secret: It’s very dirty
“At Intel’s Arizona campus, where the new facilities are still unfinished, the company already emits about two tons of hazardous air pollutants quarterly.”
Good thing Trump gives zero fucks about the climate and environment then /s
You get a Bhopal! And you get a Bhopal! Everyone gets a Bhopal!
Why? All those kids are going to need something to do after they tear down the education system.
They’ll have their hands full extracting the lithium from the dead Tesla batteries.
As a global company, Apple could just re-establish itself in europe, e.g. Ireland, and continue trading with China, they can just put the US on hold for a couple of years.
Meanwhile for those who really addicted to istuff, coyotes can smuggle iphones across the border, so maybe this solves the fentanyl ‘issue’.The people addicted to apple products will just buy it even with a 100%+ tariff. To them it’s a status thing.
The Galaxy S series and the Pixel devices cost about the same tbh, with some of the foldable models being particularly expensive. Buying way too much phone isn’t exclusive to Apple users. Apple is just clever by not really providing an entry-level priced phone. It’s both a scumbag move to make more money, but also a way to make sure that inferior devices providing an inferior experience don’t ruin their rep.
The Galaxy S series and the Pixel devices cost about the same tbh
So? That’s not what the person you replied was even saying. You completely missed the point of their comment.
I was pointing out that it’s not only Apple users who pay out the ass for their phones. It transcends brand loyalty. Everyone is spending too much on phones and will continue to do so even if prices rise.
While I don’t doubt this, I’m also sure that tarrifs will also affect the pricing/availability of utility (non-status symbol) mobile devices.
We are going to have to deal with this for 4 years (unless some Rs will vote the remove in 2) and recovery won’t be immediate. I hope my current mobile lasts that long, but I usually only get about 3 years out of a battery. Replacement parts will be hit by tarrifs, too.
This is actually one of the best solutions to this problem I’ve seen this whole time. Expand it to include all affected US companies. What’s she point of being a global company, if you can’t leverage your globalized nature for your advantage?
Also shows how much they actually can’t or won’t leave based just on just a (much needed) tax increase.
But it’s a bitch to strap them on a coyote and get it go where you want it to go. Oh coyote as in a smuggler not the 4 legged canine type
Yeah, but you just gave me an idea too, how about AI-directed canines? “apple-intelligence” applied to follow-your-nose. My dog loves to chase small spots of light, which might be a trick to steer them.
Lmao the image of a coyote with a belt of iPhones around its belly and a laser mounted on a rotating turret on its back chasing the dot across the border is quite something.
coyotes can smuggle iphones across the border
Aaaaand the US is the new North Korea…
Indeed it seems Trump picked up some ideas about “Juche” (national self-reliance?) from his best buddy “rocket-man”.
Apple already has an entity in Ireland which is the one that has most of the money. Google as well. When I pay my Google cloud bills, I don’t pay the us business, but a separate EU incorporated business. So I think, if apple sells to Europe, none of the iPhones or iPhone parts have to go through the US or pay any tarrifs.
And if chinese buy iphones, do they now have to pay 84% tariff? - maybe HQ in europe solves that too?
Most Apple products are assembled in China — some in India and Vietnam — from parts made in the region so there’s no new tariffs involved. Only Americans will have to pay more. It’s sort of like how Toyota and Honda having plants in Alabama won’t pay import tariffs.
Cars might be a bad example because their supply chains are so complex. They’ll still be more expensive because the components are often made overseas and Trump, idiotically, has tariffs on those parts (and steel and aluminum to boot). But a “foreign” car that rolls off the assembly line in the U.S. won’t have tariffs while an “American” car assembled in Mexico will.
But other businesses only have distributions centers in the US. So they import to US, pay tarrifs, and then I can buy from them in Europe, so indirectly I also paid the tarrifs. Even though product was made in China and I live in Europe.
If anything good comes from this, it’ll be reforming that. Even if tariffs were still a couple percentage points instead of based on a formula zero economists endorsed, you shouldn’t be forced to pay (or the companies able to avoid) tariffs by using a distribution center in a third country. It should all be based on country of origin and final destination.
A Chinese (or American) company setting up a factory in Vietnam is an entirely different thing. I’m not talking about that. The product was made in Vietnam and real foreign direct investment happened that’s beneficial to everyone. I just mean logistics hubs should be irrelevant when calculating tariffs.
The “ideal” solution if we must use tariffs would be to take into account where it’s all made but that’s way too complicated to implement and easy to game1, unfortunately. An iPhone is assembled in China but using parts from all over Southeast Asia (and elsewhere) and with a substantial portion of the actual value coming from California and the UK. Where is an iPhone really made if a Taiwan Semiconductor fab makes a bespoke processor based on ARM but designed in California? “Made in China” is what’s stamped on the box (actually they put “Made in China, Designed in California).
And that’s just the processor and a few other advanced chips. I think Samsung makes the screens in South Korea based on technology developed in the U.S. by Corning. If Apple wanted to skirt tariffs under that sort of regime, they could plausibly argue that the assembly is worth $10, manufacturing is worth $90, and the design and software are worth $900. I mean, smartphones are commodities now. People use iPhones because they like the software.
Tariffs based on the final step of assembly don’t make sense for complicated products made by multinational companies in the 21st century. The world makes an iPhone. Accounting for it all would be impossible.
Hehe that is funny, sadly I think the US is Apples biggest market, so they probably wouldn’t want to let go and give up any marketshare.
US usually is the most important market for most (international) companies I believe.
US has only 4% of the world’s population, there are now plenty of super-rich in China, India, etc. who like to flaunt i-stuff.
I have no source, but I remember seeing a graph of where iPhones sell and places like China/India were 80% android phones (mostly Samsung I think).
I don’t think the asian marketplace puts Apple products in such high regard as the US.
Samsung phones are still premium, I think they appeal more in other countries.
I see what you mean though with 20% of just China being almost the US population, but they are still losing 300m customers.
Let me check if my silicon dealer can hook you up…
In that case the EU will have to tax them proper.
iPhone about to cost $5000
iPhone 17: Patriots-Only Edition
The Trump base will blame Obama/Biden/Clinton, I guarantee it.
It must be so freeing to live a life more divorced from logic or reality than an indoor dog.
Maybe eliminating natural selection was a mistake.
The year is 2039, life is hard.
Just used the last of the clean water, food is almost unobtainable.
“Thanks Obama”
This guy just spews his bullshit, Would it be nice if they could be made in United States? Yeah sure but the thing is an iPhone would cost like $3500. And I know damn straight I’m not paying that much for a phone. And I’m pretty sure you guys wouldn’t either and that’s coming from someone that sometimes makes some stupid financial decisions and that is not one I would make
If Apple didn’t try to make 400% markup on their underpowered trash, it would probably just cost what it costs now. Except the child slave labor part would go away.
Except the child slave labor part would go away.
That’s the neat part, the republicans are trying to repeal child labor laws.
underpowered trash
I hate to say it, but it’s actually quite powerful trash that they produce.
Yeah, I’m in the process of shifting all of my workflows over to Linux/Android from all-Apple, but my Macs are a huge sticking point. My main computer is an M2 Macbook Air, which is ridiculously quick. I’m basically just waiting for Asahi to gain display port over USB, at which point I’ll ditch macOS. But until then…
8GB of RAM on a laptop today is f-ing ridiculous.
Lol I agree. The value is horrendous when you spec one of their products to have decent storage/ram, but nevertheless can’t fault the speed of their ARM chips.
That’s how much more efficient MacOS and the M series silicon is.
My Linux system uses about 1 GB idle and yet I’m glad to have 16 GB - not because I wouldn’t mostly be fine with 8, but because it just keeps more doors open. Can run more demanding programs, more programs simultaneously, can host something in the background, …
The OS itself is more efficient than Windows, yes. But that’s not a hard task, and it’s less efficient than many Linux distros. No matter how efficient you are, 8 GB non-expandable RAM is not enough nowadays.
Way more than you need for Facebook and pornhub. 8GB is fine for a low spec laptop.
My almost five year old piece of under powered apple trash cost me less than 45 US cents a day, still has regular OS updates and works between eight to ten hours most days running my entire life. I might even splurge out and buy a new one if they ever release an overpowered non trash handset…
I mean I would pay a premium for a made in America phone. Probably about 2 times as much. Iphones just suck ass so I’d never pay for one at all
people screwing in little, little screws
it’s going to be automated
Sure that’s not automated yet?
Everything’s computer!
Nope, I’ve long worked in designing for North American electronics manufacturing, it’s still manual. We just outsource as many of those sub assemblies as possible to cheaper countries and design things with as few fasteners as possible.
That really is the least of the worries, there just isn’t the manufacturing infrastructure for all the raw material and individual parts, manufacturing those parts just isn’t feasible to do at a reasonable cost or schedule outside of Asia. China is still popular not due to cost, they are no longer cheapest, but because they have the infrastructure in place.
