- cross-posted to:
- enoughmuskspam@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- enoughmuskspam@lemmy.world
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Ah yes, the historically marginalized vulnerable community, the cisgenders. How can a community even hope to live in peace with only 98.5% of the population?
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bullshit. cis- is a latin prefix that means “on this side of”. So for example, the Roman region Cisalpine Gaul could reasonably be interpreted as “the part of Gaul that’s on our side of the Alpines”. The prefix trans- is the antonym meaning “on the far side”. Transalpine Gaul was the part of the Roman empire on the other side of the Alpines. When related to gender, the only way cisgender can be read in any context is “their gender aligns with their sex”. There is no way that could ever be reasonably be interpreted as a slur.
Those kids on Tumblr, infamous for their coining of slurs, knowledge of Latin and history of Rome in equal measure.
Ok but you did describe a specific chunk of rome nerds. You’ve really got three kinds of rome nerds: the “I just think it’s neat” folks, the ones who think of it as glorious western tradition and lean fascist (it’s how they turned the symbol of Roman right to rule into the “kill everyone in the name of tradition” ideology), and then there are those of us who see a society that’s full on clown shoes where a bisexual twink managed to talk his way into destroying a republic among many many many other fucking bonkers things that just kept fucking happening while this empire refused to trade with China because of dipshit toxic masculinity. So yeah us in the last group lean anti fascist because rome was a shit show of a caliber only America and Russia can compare to
all those stupid cis- and trans-configured chiral molecules are just slurs lol
OMG I love it!
Right wing assholes get all bent out of shape over the computer world trying to do away with “master” and “slave” terminology, but they’ll rush to “cancel” using “cis” because it hurts their feefees…
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Most people don’t see cisgender as a slur. Only complete asshole transphobes do.
Honestly, not even they do. They just lie about it as a gotcha.
From wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
The term cisgender was coined in 1994 as an antonym to transgender, and entered into dictionaries starting in 2015 as a result of changes in social discourse about gender.[4][5] The term has been and continues to be controversial and subject to critique.
I think there’s some confirmation bias on your end here. The local community (including me) tends to be young and liberal and knows the term cisgender. I’d bet that the majority (by a huge margin) of English speakers (including as a second or third language) has never even heard the term cisgender or doesn’t know what it means. Lots of them will react negatively if you label them cisgender out of pure ignorance and false assumptions - no transphobia needed.
Only complete asshole transphobes do. Honestly, not even they do. They just lie about it as a gotcha.
Sure, they exist. But what’s their percentage of the population or the X user base? I think you’re making a false generalization by an invalid extrapolation.
And just to be clear: I’m not saying cisgender is a slur. I’m just pointing out that the notion that community A or an individual can decide whether some word is a slur or not in community B is ridiculous, and that the argument, from the first comment I replied to, for technical correctness or intended meaning of a word is irrelevant for who considers what a slur.
I hope that made my point clearer to your dry-nosed primate’s brain.
Most people don’t hear a new word and immediately assume it’s a slur.
Most people without an ax to grind anyway.
Your comment reminded me I have an actual axe to sharpen in the shed. Thanks.
I’m pretty confident the slur-status of a word is closely rated to whether or not it is used in a hateful way to refer to a people group or member of a group that is in some way disadvantaged. For example the n-word is obviously a slur and “cracker” or “whitey” obviously are not. That’s why cisgender isn’t a slur, even if people can and have use(d) it in a hateful way.
I’m just pointing out that the notion that community A or an individual can decide whether some word is a slur or not in community B is ridiculous,
As a member of group B I consider the word community a slur (purely because it is convenient for my argument to do so). Never use that word again because it is a slur and it would be ridiculous for you to say otherwise.
I’m not a fan of you assuming my identity. Did I ask to be referred to as that?
I don’t recall referring to you at all. Who are you?
When you have a trans-something you have cis-something. It’s how language works.
The only way for cisgender to be a slur is if you consider transgender a slur too.
You could construct a cis- form of the word, but it’s not always going to be useful, or even sensible.
Cismit? Cisaction? Cislate? Cisportation?
Cismit - communicating with one self, for e.g. inner dialog
Cisaction - an agreement with one self or within a group
Cislate - to rephrase in the same language
Cisportation - moving inside a boundary
I kinda love all of these. Especially cislate, I have to do that one so often
Or to cislate your last statement, “I am required to do that one frequently.”
All in favor of intra-city public transportation being renamed the cisportation network?
Cisgender originated on Usenet in alt.transgender in 1994.
I Coined The Term ‘Cisgender’ 29 Years Ago. Here’s What This Controversial Word Really Means.
Well, damn.
The word is a threat because it linguistically separates biological sex from socially constructed categories of “woman” and “man.” That gender is a social construction undermines heteronormativity, critical to defending patriarchal sex roles and procreation.
People on tumblr being really mad when they say cisgender doesn’t actually make it a slur ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You believe that cis is a slur because that’s how you use the word trans.
These people are so fragile. If you dare remind them that they’re cisgender, that they’re straight, that they’re white, that they’re able-bodied, they take it personally because to them, they’re just normal.
All of the sudden, they have to think about their place in society and it absolutely terrifies them. They are like rich people when you tell them that they’re rich. They will do this whole fucking song and dance to try and tell you about how they are not that rich and how the government taxes them and everything and how they’re just like you and so on.
They are not white, they are not cis, they are not straight, they are not able-bodied, no, they are just normal. It’s everyone else that is different. It’s them who are black, who are gay, who are trans, who are disabled. They’re different.
But my guy, you are not. You are as much a part of the society as I am. And you’re getting just a small taste of what it’s like to be a minority in said society. Someone reminded you of what you are for just a second. Now, imagine being constantly brought back to what you are and not who you are. What that would be like.
People like Elon Musk take offense to being called straight, white, cis or able-bodied because everything else is inferior to them.
On a side note: Someone should remind him of what the Nazis did to disabled people. Because the dude is clearly getting cozy with a lot of them, but I don’t think being this level of clinically stupid is going to get him far in the Fourth Reich. Besides, those South African origins… erh, that may get him in trouble. And having a trans daughter? Woof, doesn’t sound like “good genes” to me. Elon, you may want to pick better friends.
This might be top five comment on Lemmy that I’ve seen.
I appreciate what you put down here. I’m a white dude that is about as corn fed looking as they come. This comment made so much sense.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out.
Ok, I’m going to be completely honest with you. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
Are you telling me that I made a shit comment? If so, please do say so because I’m gonna be honest: I am not sure about this comment and I’ve been thinking about deleting it ever since I posted it. I rewrote it like five or six times before until I finally got fed up with it and said “fuck it” and posted it. :|
EDIT:
So, according to all of you, I worry too much. Thanks a lot for the support, and I’m glad you liked my comment. ❤️
How did you interpret a genuine compliment as so negative? You need to get some more self-esteem, friend lol. You’re valid and you have good insights!
Internet. Those with empathy have been wary for years…
Imposter syndrome’s a bitch.
Who said that!? I don’t know you!
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they’re being genuine. It’s an insightful comment!
They are being genuine. It is a terrific analysis. You are exactly right; in their minds, they are “normal”, and anyone implying any sort of equal status between them and the “abnormals” pisses them off.
Leave it, it is very well-written and it also made my day to read
Considering that they didn’t use the universal /s tag, I would take it at face value. It’s a good comment.
Plume - I was being totally serious. I really think your comment hit home for me and I appreciate how you framed your points.
Also - please don’t let internet comments from strangers linger rent free in your head. Too much awesomeness out in the world to let randoms’ comments bring you down.
Thank you. It really means a lot to me. 🩵🩷🤍
Your comment is spot on
they take it personally because to them, they’re just normal.
Maybe they (including myself) might take it personally because to them you ARE normal. Regardless of your gender, skin colour or sexual orientation.
So, if I’m treating everyone the same, why is it wrong to ask for other people to do it as well? For example, if I’m trying to talk about a certain topic and your opinion is discarded simply because “you’re cis” then yeah, I have every right to be offended. Just because I’m white and a man it doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily part of the problem.
And no, I wouldn’t presume to know how if feels to be part of a minority that has to face constant violence and discrimination but that’s precisely why I want to have the conversation, I want to better understand what other people are going through. Although, that doesn’t mean that I will (or should) agree with everything the other person says. Being part of a minority doesn’t magically make you right about everything. Just like I might be biased due to my personal context, you can be biased because of yours.
I’m afraid you are putting a lot of words into my mouth and making lots of assomptions about what I’m saying here. I don’t really know how to answer to this because, well, you’re debating against things I didn’t say.
I’m calling you cis, because it’s simply a descriptive term. You are white, you are a man, you are cisgender. That’s not a problem. I’m white, I’m a woman, I’m transgender. That’s not a problem. These, on their own, are simply descriptors. No one here is saying that you’re a problem. I’m talking about people who specifically take offense to these terms, like Musk here does, like, if you tell this man that he is “cis”, he will genuienly get upset.
You misunderstood my point. Context is important and, in this case, the context is using these terms in a platform for discussion (which are usually not very friendly). In my comment, I was thinking of why calling someone “cis” or “trans” or any other thing in a conversation can often be to insult or discredit the other person and why that’s wrong.
I have never been excluded from truth seeking conversations because I am cis. Everyone likes an ally. Some people actually like them a little too much in my experience.
If you are in a queer safe space you should treat it like you are at your in-laws house. You don’t need to be expressing every diverging opinion or challenging every cultural assumption. In my experience, if you are being met with hostility, it’s because you are projecting it.
I have never been excluded from truth seeking conversations because I am cis.
Congrats. Unfortunately, it has not been my experience.
if you are being met with hostility, it’s because you are projecting it.
I honestly don’t think I am but it is something that I could ask if it happens again.
In my past experiences where my questions or disagreements, etc have been met with hostility, the reason seems to be that if I don’t 100% agree with what the other person is saying, it’s simply because I’m a straight white man and don’t know any better. Which, as you may guess, doesn’t lead to a very productive discussion.
So, do you believe cis is a slur?
I think “slur” is not the right word but in some cases it can be used ina a derogartory or dimissive way.
I think the post you responded to may not be talking about you then lol
By “post” do you mean the comment I replied to or the actual OP? Because I believe that the intent behind classifying “cis” as an insult is more aligned with my interpretation.
If using the word “cisgender” is a ban-worthy offense, it’s not being considered “a word that can sometimes be insulting”, it’s being considered “a word that is inherently harmful to use in almost any situation”
I don’t think that terms that can get you banned would do so in any context. You’d have to use it and then someone else would have to report you. Might be wrong though.
Look at all this free speech absolutism
Now that it’s considered it a slur, we can expect huge increase in its use on the platform, right?
Funny, I think the same about X.
X.Org should be pissed.
I was really thinking they were going to challenge Musk since it’s not only their name, but he chose practically the same logo.
And I’m only, like, 98% joking about it also being the day I saw a headline on Lemmy about Wayland use overtaking X11.
I mean, honesty, there has to be some legally standing harm having been done or be possible. By a fucking billionaire tech
mogulguy to a foundational, open, and free part of the tech ecosystem who also relies on fundraising.Edit: on the other hand I’m waiting to be pounded by a reply about the logo being open source. Which it is. But you know ethics and tech and stuff.
Jesus, that’s really fucking blatant, wow
I’ve said for some time now that as long as he allows deadnaming on his site, I’m going to deadname his site.
Will bipedal be listed as a slur too? What about multicellular? Or mammal?
Probably not, but used with sufficient invective I think you could make people feel like they’ve been insulted with out actually doing so. ‘You blasted multicellular mammal! What have you done this time? What are you, bipedal or something? Eukaryote!’
Just got banned for calling someone a featherless biped SMH.
Don’t the fans of X applaud it for being anti-censorship? I would think this goes against their free speech inclinations.
Free speech for right wingers means they get to say anything they want. Doesn’t apply to others
The most critical component of “free speech” to a right-winger isn’t just the ability to say whatever they want with no repercussions, it’s also that an audience has to be forced to listen to them.
There are plenty of shithole places on the Internet where they can spout their transphobic, Great Replacement anti-Semitic shit all day long, but that’s not good enough for them. They need a “lib” to be triggered.
Jordan Peterson is the absolute king of thinking that he deserves and audience but also no one is allowed to leave a mean comment or he’ll quit Twitter again.
That’s the guy who cries about nothing, motivates incels to hate women and minorities, and goes on tirades about wanting humans to behave like lobsters or whatever, right? Utter detriment to the human species.
The guy found a way to get famous by lying that a law would put him personally in prison if he called someone “he” instead of “she.” He’s the biggest attention whore out there.
Exactly, it’s not enough to stand outside a college campus and spout bigotry, they must be given a podium and an audience must attend
This is what happens when a Nazi affiliated “free-speech” absolutist buys a major media. The trap of the tolerating the intolerant is very real.
Except X is only tolerating the intolerant, and not tolerating the tolerant.
Ok so what is their preferred term?
“Real man/woman” or something inherently derogatory towards everyone else like that.
These bigots consider their own gender (and usually race and political affiliation, for that matter) the default and everything else a misguided if not dangerous aberration.
They’re like the the people Musk grew up with in apartheid South Africa in that respect.
Guys Im starting to think the guy who’s only rich because daddy used apartheid slave labor may not have the best views on race
Yeah I suspect as much too. Nothing more than a passive and abhorrent form of violence imo.
Probably “normal”. Just like being white or straight.
He really hates his trans daughter!
She hates him more. When she changed her name, she changed her surname to her mother’s and had it put into the court record that she disowns her father. She could have just broken contact, waited for him to die and hoped she was included in the will, but he was such an awful father that she said, “fuck you and your billions of dollars.” Can you imagine how exceptionally bad a parent that would make him?
Not to play down how absolutely terrible I’m sure Musk is as a father, but her mum’s also loaded. That would certainly make the decision easier.
But is she “barring significant changes in world financial systems, my descendants could purchase a small nation-state every generation and still likely never have to sell their labor or until the end of their genetic line” wealthy? Gotta remember that Billion with a B is an absurdly large number that is literally beyond human comprehension in anything but an abstract sense by a large margin.
I got more curious, so I did some searching, and I just can’t. Turns out Musk has some absurd number of children with several different women. And I only found that out through some pop culture/celebrity worship/exploitation websites I’d rather not have in my search history. I couldn’t even find the name or age of the child in question (probably for the best, I wouldn’t want my children to go through this, either), though it seems of the three children he had with Grimes, the oldest just turned 4. That’s a bit young to even know what disowning is.
Sure, her mom is loaded. But even ignoring the money, she wanted it known in a legal setting and on an official court transcript that she did not consider Elon Musk to be her father. That’s quite the statement.
Has anyone ever been fired from a job for being cis? [I’ve been fired from a couple for being trans….]
I know that is legal in a lot of places, but it absofuckinglutely should not be. I’m really sorry. I hope you’ve found something good since.
Sorry to hear about that, hope you’ve found a nice employer that respects you!
I wasn’t aware of this term, but I just checked it in wiktionary. Looks like a perfect normal word to me.
It is, and it’s a word we need there’s not a different term for it and it’s a useful concept. Close minded people just hate that it implies the existence of trans people.
Much like all words for a privileged group it has some people who really don’t like it. Transphobes in particular dislike it because it is neutral and contains no value judgement. But also because it gives people the language to talk about trans experiences without misgendering or othering trans people
Something something snowflakes…
Should we really be adding more derogatory terms to children’s vocabulary tho? I don’t care if it’s cisgender or a new word for removed, I get theyre only words and we shouldnt be voldermorting words because of the power it gives to oppressors but for fuckin real what I get nervous about is adding another word to be fucking mean adding it to school aged children’s arsenal of mean as fuck shit to say to other kids. We can all agree they don’t belong anywhere appropriately but for me this has always been about discouraging the next generation from being as hateful and cruel as this current parenting generation and older.
I will die on the hill that psychological and emotional aggression is 1000x’s worse than trying to knock someones teeth in. As someone who grew up a barefoot3d hippie in redneck country I’ve seen it way too often that issues get fuckin squashed after 2 parties are icing their shinners and are arguing wile coming down from a much depleted sense of drive, rage amd adrenaline or whatever that hormone is called now.
“Cisgender” is no more a derogatory term than “heterosexual.” It’s simply a descriptor. It means your gender and biological sex are the same. That’s all.
It’s only derogatory to you if you feel that “cisgender” should be “normal” and thus not have a word. But we have a word for all kinds of things people might consider “normal.” Sighted is a word even though being able to see is the norm. I’m sure you can use ‘sighted’ in a derogatory way. Maybe some blind people even do, I don’t know. That doesn’t make the word derogatory.
“Cisgender” is not the queer equivalent of something like “tranny.”
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Whenever I speak the Italian vulgar, I’m always talking to my homies in Cisapline Gaul.
Your position is great, all these kids are being warped by slander and pejoratives (as contextual), and nobody seems to care about manipulating all these new kids being grown up into a world that’s burning down and their McDonald’s meal will cost $26.99 next year with no jobs existing. But they’re concerned more about gender and words and feelings than reality anymore.
Getting into fistfights > Learning a single vocabulary word ??
Wow. A VIOLENT snowflake. Daring today, aren’t we.
I call myself cis male. What delicate fucking snowflakes.
EDIT: I want to provide some more information. I am a straight cis male. Straight is my sexual preference, cis gendered in my gender identity, and male is my biological sex as assigned at birth. I was first called cis male by a lesbian friend in a relationship with a trans-masculine lesbian (I think…s/he was a life long butch lesbian who began to transition socially after we met.) My friend described to me what cis meant and I said, “Ya, that describes me.” I have a pair of trans women friends (one post-op and one who will never get the surgery.) I have a pair of gay friends, one who had always known that he was gay and one who was closeted his whole life, married, kids, and came out in his 50s. I had known him for 25 years and never thought about whether he was straight or gay. In my social circle, intellectual and liberal, it is handy to be able to let people know a bit about me in a few words. I’ve embraced “cis” because I don’t think that I am superior because I am what I am. The people who are offended by being called “cis” are the ones who have sneered labels at others. I haven’t done that. I also find it handy in social situations to be able to say I’m interested in straight or bi cis women.
I could not care less who you love, who you want to have sex with, how you present yourself, how you want to be addressed, etc. I have my preference but that’s just me.
So people should just accept what others call them?
The definition of cis is, “a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth.” Does you gender identity correspond to the sex you were assigned at birth? Mine does.
What are the origins of the word “cis”?
The prefix cis- is Latin and means on this side of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
Just as “trans-” means on the other side of. It’s literally just the opposite of trans.
The term cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning ‘on this side of’, which is the opposite of trans-, meaning ‘across from’ or ‘on the other side of’. This usage can be seen in the cis–trans distinction in chemistry, the cis and trans sides of the Golgi apparatus in cellular biology, the ancient Roman term Cisalpine Gaul (i.e. ‘Gaul on this side of the Alps’), and Cisjordan (as distinguished from Transjordan). In cisgender, cis- describes the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.
Also, I don’t accept I was “assigned a gender at birth”. That’s like a person of faith saying when I got a sole. Believe what you want, but don’t expect me to join in.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
People made the same arguments about “heterosexual” and “straight”, at least with the latter I could see why someone would see that as a slur (it’s a term originates from animal farming), while “heterosexual” just describes someone is attracted to the opposite gender (go on, and use it as an “a ha!” moment against me by claiming it as a proof that even I know there’s only two genders, like fundamentalists do with atheists saying “oh my god!”). “Cis” is just the opposite of “trans”, even if Musk had the techbro-level idea of treating “cis” the same way most sensible people treat that “cool and funny” gamer word, he wants to say out loud in the public, like he used to do it in apartheid Africa.
So, even if I don’t like it, I have to accept being called that? My preferences don’t matter?
What do you want to be called instead? Normal?
Look, some people just aren’t trans like normal people.
I know this may be a difficult concept for you, but here’s what you do:
Someone calls you cisgendered.
You say, “I don’t like being called cisgendered, call me _____.”
That person agrees and calls you ______.
-and that is all most trans people are asking of you too.
So Musk will let you use that word all you want because free speech, right?
…right?
Everyone should start talking about CSI incessantly.
Las Vegas or Miami?
CSI Gender. It’s a spinoff taking place in the town of Gender, New Mexico.
Lol, perfect.
