Come one come all to the Lemmy-verse! It’s nice and cozy here, we do have some “bad parts of town” but you can do an instance block and not deal with them lol
For your memes we have !memes@lemmy.world if you like sciency posts mander.xyz has some excellent communities (communities=subreddits) like !science@mander.xyz and !biology@mander.xyz and for a meme science combo theres always the fantastic !science_memes@mander.xyz
You can also drop a shit(post) off at !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world or hang out at !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone (though you do have to post before you leave that one!)
There’s much more around as well!
Obligatory, fuck Spez
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Wait, what’s wrong with Hexbear? I’m new to Lemmy and read the code of conduct and TOS of Hexbear and it just seems like they’re leftist? I was thinking about registering there 😅
They are not actually left, they are authoritarian communists and will defend Chinas CCP and Putin as well as spread the propaganda/misinfo out of there. And if you dare post anything critical of them, no matter how many good sources you give or how factual it is they’ll write it off as “CIA propaganda”, remove it and ban you under their catch-all “Rule 1: Bigotry”
If you want to see more check out !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
When r/chapotraphouse got banned they moved to what is now hexbear. If you didn’t like r/cth you won’t like hexbear, and lots of folks don’t like r/cth.
So here’s the thing… im so new i have no idea what r/chapotraphouse is
Fair and valid, and I envy your brain. They were a shitposter sub on reddit, sorta based on the dirtbag podcast of the same name. They were criticized for brigading and dog piling folks they disagreed with, and largely have a mentality of treating what they see as bad faith with mockery.
All that being said, if you think memes about China taking over the US is funny, they are a fun, active community. Though using it as your primary instance can be a big of a difficulty because lots of other instances block them.
Really I’ve found lemm.ee to be a good home, and you can still see all the posts there and see if it clicks for you.
Lemmy can be a bit of a culture shock when you come from Reddit. If someone calls you a libtard on Reddit, it’s because they think you’re a leftist. If someone calls you one on Lemmy, it’s because they think you’re too far to the right of them.
Sooo are the users over at Hexbear considered libtards over here on Lemmy?
Nooo the users on Hexbear are the ones calling others libs. Though I don’t know how prolific libtard is, just because of the ableism.
Former tankie turned anarchist. Talk to the Tankies. Learn from them, they have points.
Engles is full of shit (“On Authority” is little more than a business owner complaining that people don’t like authority, and using natural laws of the universe to justify its existence by diluting the definition of authority such that any type of power over anything is considered authority. While this is not technically incorrect, it is a gross oversimplification of what authority means) and is the primary basis for how authority is justified on the Auth left.
But when they tell you to read something, go read it. They shitpost hard, don’t eat the onion, don’t feed the trolls, but engage in genuine conversation *recognizing that you will never agree and using it as a learning experience *
edit: spelling error
I like to think of tankies as Anakin Skywalker in that scene on the Grass with Padme. Anakin is gently explaining his hopes for the future, the wonderful world he wants to build, but when asked if people disagree he says “then they’ll be made to”, revealing his authoritarian streak. To anakin, like the tankie, seems obvious that an ultimate authority is necessary to shepherd the people into their eventual utopia, by force if necessary.
Many recognize the goal of a far left state is to whither and die, but the tankie forgets that power begets power. A dictatorship of the prolietariat is all well and good until a well spoken wolf in the finest wool takes the reigns. Power does not corrupt; rather i believe it is corruption that seeks power, and like dragons those corrupted by power will not give it up, and will do anything for more.
This right here (I’m stealing it lmao)
I personally would love to see the fall of capitalism in my lifetime and the rise of “The Star Trek Economics” which IMO is a fantastic example of a realistic equal capitalism-free future. Not so perfect as to fall into the “Utopia that’s really a Dystopia in disguise” problem, but still a future worth striving for.
All current or past examples of Communism generally involve the sacrifice of personal rights and freedoms to some degree.
ETA: As far as engaging with them goes, I did for a while, multiple times in fact. Once you go beyond their surface level talking points the Authoritarian in them comes out and they will not criticize China/Russia in any shape or form no matter how deserving.
It’s really only been the last few months that I’ve actually been proactive against them because now I see the damage they do to the Lemmy-verse with their propaganda and misinformation.
Holy shit. You joke about this unironically is either fiendishly sarcastic or braindead.
MASTADON HAS ALREADY FAILED - because you banned the socialists. The first thing the fediverse has done is split the socialist / communist communities from the “mainstream”. Have you thought about what that means?
What kind of legitimacy do you think you still have as a worthwhile social media platform?
Socialists != Tankie
Communists != Tankie
Tankie = Authoritarian “Communists”
I have no problems striving for a capitalism free future, but not an authoritarianism-based capitalist-free future.
You probably think it’s fine if all news papers are owned by oligarchs and probably think “democratically controlled corporation” = government involved = authoritarianism!??
You’ve internalized the propaganda.
Can someone explain like I’m 5 how being against Nazis and capitalism is authoritarian bootlicking? Seems like the exact opposite.
Authoritarianism isn’t exclusive to capitalism. You can have a communist country that is Authoritarian, like China or Russia. But they will fervently deny that China and Russia are Authoritarian, the various human rights abuses and lack of freedom at their feet in order to promote Authoritarian style Communism
They are against Nazis, but they apply that label to just about everyone who is against their views and/or what China/Russia pushes. They will say that Ukraine is completely run by Nazis for example, a propaganda line right out of Moscow.
a communist country … like China or Russia.
lmao. Both extremely capitalist: money, wage labor, private property, classes, etc. Read a book.
Perhaps, but the CCP proclaim themselves to be a “communist” country and the tankies believe them even though their actions are, like you said, capitalist-like.
communist country that is Authoritarian,
No you can’t, communist countries don’t have governments
China or Russia
These are capitalist countries, state capitalist for China
Ussr/Maoist China at best were socialist dictatorships which I think is what you were referring to
While I can see your point for the second half of your comment
No you can’t, communist countries don’t have governments
What‽ That’s a new one lmao
Ukrainian leadership declared themselves Nazis. They’ve recently spent millions erecting monuments of famous Nazis, and are naming streets after them. Their soldiers are literally covered in Nazi symbols.
When someone tells you themselves that they’re a Nazi, why do you think your beliefs overrule their own self-image?
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/03/08/wdtz-m08.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-leader-slams-kyiv-for-naming-streets-after-nazi-collaborators
WSWS is a biased “trotskyist” rag and this is an opinion piece whingeing about Ukraine throwing off the shackles of soviet oppression written by the leader of a former Ukrainian political party that was banned for having ties to Russia. Opinion disregarded
The TOI link you posted lists its source as a tweet which no longer exists.
Neither link claims “Ukrainian leadership declared themselves Nazis”
Wow this conversation is really something.
-
WSWS is actually garbage, as a trotskyist we think these people are cranks. Gotta respect the hustle, their magazine has a far reach and they aren’t 1000% terrible. But a friend of mine claims that the closest he’s ever come to being the victim of political violence was at a WSWS convention.
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Ukraine actually banned all their left wing political parties and it wasn’t actually because of Russian ties. Not saying the ties didnt exist in this instance, or in other instances, but it isnt evidence of complete ideological corruption by Russia of the far left. Denial of Nazi influence and Banderist militias is a denial of history. The Maidan revolution was a US backed operation, the US knowingly and explicitly funded Far right Nazi militias for years in the lead up to this conflict. The US baited Russia into Ukraine hoping for a protracted war to weaken them and their anti US influence. The associations are plain and not just Russian propaganda. Ukraine has always had a Nazi problem, as many countries, including the US, also do. And why not? Nazis are frothing violent nationalists who hate communism and socialism. So to the western imperialists, Nazis are and have been useful for decades, and explicitly in the Ukraine since 2014, but not just since the Russian invasion.
However,
- The invasion of Ukraine is actually terrible the Ukrainian people don’t deserve to be the victims of Russian invasion and deepening capitalist corruption. Its not a left wing position to be on the side of invaders! I know a few Ukrainian Americans who were active and capable in the left wing who stopped organizing because of peoples delusional and toxic attitudes around these conflicts. If someone makes a political analysis that most Ukrainian people are Nazis, they are only doing so to dehumanize them, so that their suffering can be dismissed.
I understand the position of US defeatism, and probably strategically agree with it. But like communists are supposed to be better analysts, we don’t base our analysis on whatever the opposite of our enemies say, we are supposed to ground our conclusions in historical circumstances, material relations, and by uniting objective fact with subjective truth. A popular front with Russia is a losing proposal, and progressive liberals are more correct for opposing it. But the facts are in, the Ukrainians were done dirty by “the west” long before the Russians invaded. They don’t deserve an invasion, and they don’t deserve to have their economy raided and they don’t deserve to have the far right funded by the US and its allies, and their left wing dismantled by the corrupt Ukrainian government, who is not made just by a just defensive war, if in fact it can be accurately called that. Like in some ways yes, but other ways no, and still others it is very unclear.
Liberals should learn more history and Commies should actually learn dialectical materialism instead of abandoning it for disasterous popular frontism.
Finally a nuanced left wing take.
The left isn’t supposed to be an echo chamber, we are supposed to “ruthlessly criticize all that exists” especially our selves. People who don’t understand their own beliefs are capable of being tricked into anything. “When education isn’t liberating, it is the dream of the oppressed to become the oppressor.”
I’m just some dumb guy no one listens to so I appreciate the comment.
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You want more? Oh man, have I got more! I’ll try to stick to whitewashed sources you’d like.
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-738940
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna198961
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1290946
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-us-weapons-azov-a3a555670bedeae2022900621d79aba7
I’m not claiming that there has never been Nazis in Ukraine. The Holodomor was pretty fresh in the minds of Ukrainians when Germany invaded and whether you believe it was an intentional ploy by Stalin to quell succession movements the USSR states or not it was definitely seen as one by many in the population. Collaborating with any invading force under the context of millions of your countrymen appearing to have been murdered by the state is frankly unsurprising.
The people having streets named after them in Ukraine may have been Nazis but is that the reason they are being “honored”? Most articles across the political spectrum tend to gloss over the actual reasons. one of the ones you posted even says “The Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine [and presumably others] avoids mentioning Kubiyovych’s Nazi past, instead focusing on his work before and after World War II” so the answer to that seems to be an emphatic no. Would i personally rename a street after him knowing what i know about him? definitely not. but it’s not about Nazism, it’s about forging a national identity separate from that of their historic oppressors.
Russia does not care about denazifying ukraine, if Putin cared about Nazis he wouldn’t have allowed this guy to become second in command of his chief black ops battalion.
Ukraine has had problems with nationalism, but that does not a “Nazi” state make and the trend including with Azov has been away from problematic fascistic ideology.
Russia on the other hand has been increasingly embracing fascistic traits. Wikipedia defines fascism as “a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.” Most of which are traits that Russia has comfortably ticked for well over a decade, Ukraine on the other hand has not.
And still none of the links you posted make mention of “Ukrainian leadership declar[ing] themselves Nazis” as was your original claim
You mistakenly believe my opposition to Nazis is support for Russia. It is not.
This is not team sports. This is real life.
“I don’t support Russia but do exclusively parrot their talking points and refuse to accept that Ukraine could be a victim”
This is not team sports. This is real life.
Correct, and real life is not Black and White, it is shades of Grey. Ukraine has existed in the grey of history for as long as it was subjugated by Russia
I feel like nuance is dead for you. Black and white and whatever makes for justification.
So, your statement that the country is Nazi and doesn’t deserve support is people voting for a street name to a guy they forgot was a Nazi like most of NASA in the US or many businesses in Germany and that there are more alt right groups acting up and joining civilian battalions which is true of Italy, Germany, Poland, USA, India, Russia, Argentina, Philippines, etc…
You have taken a piece to willingly believe the whole you want.
A person can be an abusive parent but a great teacher, people can be great caregivers but racist, countries can be invaded by others for resources while struggling with internal issues.
I’m not sure you have a point here other than that because they have an issue within them they deserve anything that happens to them. It’s a false purity test cause nothing passes. When chickens do this in the wild they end up pecking each other to death trying to get the blood off each other. Do not have the same mentality as a chicken.
In my experience, the only people who want to talk about “nuance” with Nazis are themselves Nazis.
Back to pure black and white with you. It mentioned Nazi somewhere, so a stance against discussion itself. If that was about ideology I get it, no nuance to a person wanting oppression of others, but you are just using the concept to block the conversation on whether you are right or wrong to be able to pass judgement on an entire country.
You use it as an excuse to not think critically and ease your mind on a complicated issue.
It’s like you are using the phrases incorrectly to be devoid of empathy not with. Well I read your links, engaged to see what your point is and find it still to be nothing other than a false purity test to disconnect yourself.
You do not engage with reality so I will not engage with you.
Yeaaa ookkk tankie, I’m sure those websites aren’t biased and spreading propaganda/misinformation at all LMAO
you’ve been tagged
So you’re denying Ukraine is doing this? Or am I a tankie for pointing it out? All it takes to be a tankie is pointing out someone is calling themself a Nazi?
You’ve taken this so far, you’re entering into Nazi sympathizer/collaborator territory.
The US Congress had to lift a ban on arming Nazis in order to send arms to Ukraine. Now tell me how it’s somehow my fault for pointing that out.
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-us-weapons-azov-a3a555670bedeae2022900621d79aba7
Do you guys read the sources you post or just the headlines?
Moscow has repeatedly portrayed the Azov as a Nazi group and accused it of atrocities, but has publicly given little evidence of the allegations.
Yes, I am aware AP has been whitewashing for fascists for a while. But Congress is not bound by what Moscow believes. Congress had to lift the ban on arming Nazis to send Ukraine weapons, because it’s also what the US believes.
You know who also believes Ukraine is currently governed by a Nazi regime? The soldiers covering their uniforms in Nazis patches, the politicians naming streets after Nazis, and the Ukrainians openly declaring ‘I am a Nazi.’
Why would you discredit your own proof once it’s pointed out that it isn’t proof?
Why not link directly to Ukraine’s statement?
If the Ukraine was so Nazi, why didn’t Russia go to the UN and create a multi-country coalition to remove the Nazis and save the people?
And why would these Nazis elect a Jew?
If taken at face value it sounds pretty much the same as the Hamas being a freedom-fighting group
Please expand on that nonsense. How does that make sense in your brain?
Well you say that a Nazi-group stays a Nazi group even when they are fighting against an invader.
Does that work the same way for the Hamas? Once a terrorist group always one? Or are they a liberation army?
Libs vs tankies is an authoritarian clown battle.
It is much closer to severing the militant flank of the left from the rightward flank that can be recouperated into maintaining the status quo.
These posts are so fucking cringe lol. Its always the same guy posting them.
I was on Lemmy when lemmy.ml was the biggest server and I’m glad that despite the biggest server being tankie nominated Lemmy could grow into what it is today.
For awhile I thought that there were stacks of people on lemmy.world constantly complaining about tankies. But now I’m starting to realise that most of the posts are from this one dude, cm0002. Frankly, it’s a little bit weird.
This whole topic has been the crusade of like two or three people.
The result is mostly just a fourth person being able to post shit like breibart without harassment.
Lemmy is still rather small.
Yeah its pretty pathetic.
Watching him ‘help’ the fediverse grow by constantly trying to divide and ostracise people would be ironic if it wasn’t so obviously dumb
Definitely a hobby of his
Or a job…
I feel like professionals would be better at it.
Woo \o/ Hopefully this time the server I picked won’t suddenly vanish and take all the communities I’d managed to find and subscribe to from me. 😅 Gonna make sure I make regular exports and maybe have a second account on another server just incase.
Are there any real communism/anarchism communities?
Follow the Anarchist Code of Conduct: https://wiki.dbzer0.com/the-anarchist-code-of-conduct/
slrpnk.net looks cool, haven’t tried it yet
You can tell they’re communists cuz they live rent free in the heads of every .world user.
calling tankies communists is like calling Scandinavia socialist
This would be incorrect.
For them to even have the option of rent being waived, that would have to mean that we are all, in some sense- landlords. And it’s commonly known in these parts that landlords are perceived as greedy capitalistic pig-dogs, so, if we are to assume for the sake of discussion that this is true-
… then there can be no reality in which anyone or anything lives rent free in our heads.
There’s no reality in which anyone or anything is rent free in our heads.
Wow somebody is a big reality understander. Impressive.
(Seriously tho it’s called a metaphor.)
Wow. Someone is a big metaphor understander.
(Seriously though- I was making a joke)
I’m really liking it here!
Welcome!
Glad to be here!!
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Yeah… we’re kind of fun.
Man you’re getting worse than the hexbear edgelords who just shit on the liberals all day, except at least they’re yelling at people in power and not some extremely marginal leftists who would be shot before they could ever take a seat in politics.
A good rule of politics is if someone or an ideology that you don’t like and they have no power or connection to power just ignore them, especially if there on your side for 90% of actual relevant issues. Not theoretical issues that may pop up after the revolution that may never come.
A good rule of politics is if someone or an ideology that you don’t like and they have no power or connection to power just ignore them, especially if there on your side for 90% of actual relevant issues. Not theoretical issues that may pop up after the revolution that may never come.
Sounds good, except I believe them to be actively harmful to the reputation of the Lemmy-verse, so it’s important to make a clear stand, if total defederation isn’t happening.
I’d rather not Lemmy end up as another Voat. I’ve already seen tons of stories from the original rexit of “I tried Lemmy, but .ml/hex/grad seemed cringy/hostile so I left”
I think that people who choose corporate media, where /r/the_donald sentiments are actively reinforced by the corporation, over lemmy, because they found hex/grad/ml users “cringe/hostile” are not comparing things on a neutral basis.
you’re entirely right, but…have you met people?
the reputation of the Lemmy-verse
As long as the main devs of Lemmy are Dessalines and other communists, then the reputation of the Lemmy-verse being tied to a bunch of highly communist instances is just an objectively correct fact. Liberals are free to fork their own version of the software and call it something else.
Tankies, they’re tankies, there’s nothing wrong with the theory of communism. What makes a Tankie, is the support of Authoritarian regimes and turning a blind eye to genocides and many other human rights violations when committed by said regimes
And also, there’s nothing Tankie about Lemmy itself. It’s just computer code that is a Reddit-like link aggregator. It falls under separating the art from the artist. And because it’s open source, there’s no concern of financially supporting it either from its use (unless you make an explicit choice to donate)
What makes a Tankie, is the support of Authoritarian regimes and turning a blind eye to genocides and many other human rights violations when committed by said regimes
That’s exactly what liberals of Lemmy do though.
When was the last time you spoke against Zelensky’s regime, that literally turned my country into a concentration camp that people cannot leave and are kidnapped off the streets (and even fucking hospitals!) in front of their crying wives/mothers, to be sent into the meatgrinder and never be seen again?
That’s a rhetorical question, of course you never did (and those who do, including me, are paid Russian shills, tankies or just bots). Because for a liberal, it’s never “authoritarianism bad” or “Nazism bad” or “human rights violations bad” or anything like this - it’s only bad when the other side is doing it. When “the good guys” are doing it, it’s not just totally acceptable, the guy is a hero.
War surely is cruel isn’t it.
The only thing more cruel than war is liberals.
Nothing is more cruel than war
He won’t speak against Zelensky’s regime, because he’s not opposed to fascists. He’s just trying to pretend his basic Sinophobia, and racism against Asians, is some kind of political philosophy.
If they actually cared about “the reputation of Lemmy,” they wouldn’t be tying it to CIA propaganda.
I just think there’s a contradiction in a) continuing to use a platform that is developed primarily by Communists and b) thinking that the platform being associated with Communists “actively harmful to the reputation of the Lemmyverse”. The fact is that the Lemmyverse is associated with Communists - or “tankies” as you insist on calling them - and so if that’s its reputation then the reputation is accurate.
there’s no contradiction, because the developer does not matter. that’s the entire point of FOSS.
it could be written by a literal nazi (not that there’s a big difference between brown and red fascists) and it wouldn’t matter one bit.
that’s the entire beauty of FOSS!
we ALL own the code.
if Dessalines ever stops developing it, anyone can take over.
if Dessalines implements code the community at large doesn’t like, anyone can create a fork and change that specific part and continue from there.
we can see exactly what the code does, and can create new versions at any point.
that was always the reason behind decentralized, open source networks:
nobody can own it.
Weird post.
Most definitely. I’m getting pretty sick and tired of the constant complaining about those Lemmy instances.
Ironically the founder and programmer is a communist
tankies aren’t communists. Marx would’ve laughed at authoritarians calling themselves communists
They aren’t tankies though. That’s just a label applied by everyone else when the communists point out supporting Nazis is bad.
anyone who supports China isn’t a communist, end of discussion. you couldn’t define communism even with Das Kapital in front of you
K. Except I never declared support for China, so what are you on about?
Denying that the tiananmen square massacre happened is pretty obvious support for China.
Y’all really do live your lives like this. Treating everything in this world like team sports. ‘If you’re anti-CIA, you must be pro-China! If you’re anti-Nazi, you must be pro-Russia!’
It’s like talking to children.
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/
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