I didn’t mean for this post to cause a bunch of arguing in the comments =(
I thought this was just some gallows humor (e.g. “Everything’s lovely except that I have to fear for my safety all the time”) type of shitpost that sounded similar to comments I’ve heard from women irl a lot.
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
I mean, most women probably have experience with cleaning up blood.
I wonder if that’s throwing off the statistics.
ive had 2 (and a half) nosebleeds this week, can confirm.
(I’m fine it’s just the dry+cold weather)Cold weather plus cocaine has that effect
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I blame women.
😡🍴
For not murdering enough
😮💨👍
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I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
I too support women in men-dominated fields
Wow calling for the death of innocent people based on gender.
The fuck is wrong with Lemmy upvotng this.
its a joke fella.
I’m thinking more of a voluntary program.
That shadowm’n on her 1am walk is gonna go away quickly if I’m with her and she ices me right there in the Applebee’s parking-lot 🫠 she’s allowed to do it. It happens all the time…
Psychopaths can’t feel fear
This also depends on what kind of roads you have to walk on - highways suck for nighttime walks, because not only are you constantly on edge to try not to get run over, you also need to walk for miles to get anywhere.
Suburbs are nicer, but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
I don’t know where I was going with this. I lost my train of thought.
Easy solution: bring a bear. Much less chance of being murdered, and the bear gets to shit in the woods. Well, park, but close enough.
Instructions unclear, hid roadkill bear in Central Park
Easy solution: live in a safe country! We have no fears of night walks in Canada.
Unless you’re indigenous, then there’s a risk…
The 184 murdered Canadian women of 2024 might disagree with you. Especially Indigenous women, 24% of the total. Of course some were murdered by their husbands/partners, probably not out walking, but the majority were killed by strangers or mere acquaintances.
This comment isn’t about violence against women comment. This is about safety of walking at night in cities. So just because I say it’s much safer to walk at night in Canada DOES NOT MEAN I AM DENYING VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN DOESN’T EXIST. Sheesh the logic of some.
In all of Canada? Every city? All of Toronto and Vancouver? Wow I’m impressed that rape, murder and assault never happen there.
Compared to the US, yes it is much much safer here. I would be scared to walk late night downtown ANYWHERE in US cities. Here, that’s never been a problem.
I’m going out on a limb and saying you’re not a woman. There’s no place on earth I could say I’d never feel unsafe walking alone at night. Although I’m less nervous in my own neighborhood in Los Angeles, just because it’s familiar.
I did delve into your history to check before I spoke. I now know a lot more about Myanmar, (which was fascinating and took me so far back into your posts as to get creepy, my apologies ) and the NFL, and btw you’re doing great at adding content to Lemmy, but the only posts about women’s issues were the Toronto Tempo and one about abortion pill access that’s consistent with your sound views on the present shithole US administration, and you didn’t add any personal comments to.
That’s kinda creepy. I don’t have to go out on a limb to say you’ve never been to Canada while I’ve been to the biggest cities in the US. I live in Toronto. While I am a man I know a lot of women in my life who walk at night DOWNTOWN. And nobody would tell them they are insane to do that. It’s not an issue here. It behooves me that you all assume the world is like the US. It isn’t. Yes there are bad places to not walk at night - certain ghettos for instance, or a certain small city in the prairies with a reputation. The large ones - Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal in most parts are safe for both genders. Come and visit us sometime. Summer is better.
I have been to Canada twice, Quebec and Toronto, and I wouldn’t walk alone at night in either.
Edit: I guess I would if I absolutely HAD to, but I’d be uncomfortable as fuck about it. And I wonder if your female friends are as casual about it as you believe.
Where do you get your reference points from? Social media? Movies? Shows? Or personal experience from walking in lots of downtowns? These statements just reek of not first-hand knowledge to me and just “oooh crime ridden OTHER places” Sure crime exists, but it’s the broad strokes that make me disregard statements like that. I’ve been to plenty of very safe downtowns in various corners of America, to say ANY US city is insane.
Are you 12 fucking years old?
No, just old enough to realize speaking in platitudes makes people look like ignorant idiots
Cops even take you on starlight tours. So safe.
Nah you’re just sheltered.
Are you saying living in a safe country is bad? o.0
No I’m saying people get murdered in Canada, your experience isn’t everyones.
I haven’t been murdered in the U.S., that doesn’t mean people don’t get murdered.
Until your bear meets RFK jr in the park
My suburb neighborhood is filled with walkers and it is super unsafe at night. They decided when they built it that they didn’t want to to create and maintain sidewalks and street lamps, so people always walk in the road and the only lights are the lamp posts at the end of people’s driveways. And almost nobody wears reflectives, or carries lights or anything on their person. Particularly when you’re blinded by an oncoming car’s lights, it’s nearly impossible to see people until you’re right up on them.
It’s so stupid and shortsighted. Living environments are not just the inside of our homes - it includes the outside, the neighbourhood, and the options you have to travel in and out of there. All of this together decide your quality of life inside your home.
Don’t for a second think it’s by accident. This was done to make areas less accessible to ‘undesirables’. After builders and realtors were told to stop forcing PoC into specific areas, they just went ahead and built suburbs that you basically had to have a car to access, ensuring poorer people were kept out.
but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
Is this a vibes-based take of do you actually have any stats on the matter?
Fwiw, the best is hands down a walk in a still kind of crowded city center. Few things bring as much security as eyes on the street
That’s your problem. You’re supposed to be walking, not riding a train…
In the US walking outside is generally terrible even in the suburbs.
You’ll be fine if you just keep away from Assault Av., Murder Blvd., Rape roundabout and Stabbing St.
/S
What and guys aren’t worried about being murdered by other dudes at night? Lol
Statistically men are more likely to be attacked, robbed, sexually assaulted (in a public institution) and shot than women.
Men are more likely to be murdered in general.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
Violent crimes happen to men more than women on average.
I am a HUGE advocate for women staying safe. I think more women need to purchase and properly learn how to use a personal high speed lead slinging device.
HOWEVER I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims. Statistically they aren’t more frequently attacked or murdered. In fact they are slightly less likely to be victims. Bad people are gonna do bad things and everyone should learn to protect themselves against those bad people.
DOUBLE HOWEVER Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
At the end of the day everyone should stay safe. Keep your head on a swivel. Obtain and learn how to use a personal defense tool. Be smart.
I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims.
who said this?
honest query. I don’t see it in OP’s statement. You do corroborate their premise -
Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
so why the strawman argument at the start?
So of the photo was of a man, bit with the same text it would be ok. Right? Both you, me, and the woman in the photo agree that men are the problem.
“Not all men” agreed, but enough to men to make others afraid.
True. The caption doesn’t imply any gender for the potential victim, it just happened the original poster is female.
If they have to post any statistics at all, it should only be about the criminal, which they did but with a Google AMP link grrrrrrr
Ohh is this the part where you break it down further and try to say because statistically PoC are more likely to commit crimes that PoC are the problem?
Because that’s certainly sounds like the sort of shittake you’re already doing there.
Discrimination has no place.
I wonder if the murder rates are skewed by organized crime/gangs. That has a male skewed gender ratio and high murder rates.
Almost certainly.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately. It’s difficult to pin down what murders are for sure gang related and which ones aren’t. Obviously there are some situations where it’s very clear, but some where it is not. Where you draw that line changes things significantly.
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Did we read the same comment? He was pointing out statistics around males, not downplaying the statistics around women.
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He’s just making stuff up anyway. It’s not difficult to pull apart those data sets. The information is readily available. It just doesn’t show the first thing that came out of his mouth is correct.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately
The actual fuck? It’s significantly easier to pull apart large data sets, especially to answer demographic questions like this. This is literally Data Science 101, you’re just making shit up!
Wow. That is a whole lot of getting your undies in a wad over a meme that does NOT exclude any gender feeling this way.
You brought a bunch of bias to this one. Might want to look into why that is
I dunno feels to me like you’re the one getting upset about his post and not vice versa.
There are shittons of rape & murder fantasy communities with secretly taken & stolen pictures on porn & snuff websites, on the snuff websites there’s unfortunately also real stuff.
This is something I really didn’t want to know. I wouldn’t want to walk in the shoes of my gf honestly just judging from the amount of harassment she faces in liberal, progressive western cities by men of all age & skin color (need to say this nowadays unfortunately). Add to that being physically inferior that creates a sense of being constantly threatened. Also, they are targeted specifically because they are women and femicide is a real, bad issue.
Not disagreeing that anyone could be affected, just saying I can easily walk at night because no one would target me specifically for being a man.
Clearly you’ve never been jumped lol. It’ll give you a whole new perspective on the world and walking around alone as a guy.
I find it gross that you referred to your own girlfriend as “physically inferior”. I think the better term is physically at a disadvantage.
Since you’re talking to a complete stranger on an anonymous platform it makes no sense to make any assumptions like that.
English is not my first language, in case that was an offensive formulation I apologize.
But your response definitely makes me question your intentions.
I apologizing for assuming. You said something along the lines of “nobody would jump be just because I’m a man” which tells me you haven’t been assaulted by random guys before in your life. They absolutely will jump you for no reason regardless of your gender. I posted those exact statistics in my first comment.
And the word “inferior” has a negative connotation connected to it. You usually use it to describe something that is worse in every way. For example: “I only use zip lock bags because other plastic resealable bag brands are all inferior”.
Your comment about your girlfriend taken at face value came across very sexist. Which is all we can do without knowing someone, how was I supposed to know English is your second language? You use better punctuation than me and it’s the only language I know lol.
no one would target me specifically for being a man
I think you’ve misunderstood. The commenter is not saying that random attacks don’t happen to men, that’s obviously true. But those attacks won’t target you specifically because you are male, which is an additional justification for violence that women have to deal with. I’d argue it’s even more common than women being targeted randomly - or even that random muggings/assaults are actually random. I mean, who’s jumping people that they think are a threat?
You write like you are disagreeing with something in this post, in your own small pathetic way. But I fail to see what part of the post you are disagreeing with
That’s a lot of not making a point. The girl in the OP is still worried about walking at night and the most common threat to a woman in that situation is still men. You didn’t counterpoint any of that, so it is just you shouting into the wind about stuff no one is talking about. Cool.
My god, I am a cis male and I don’t feel threatened or targeted by this. I think there’s a reason why certain men feel attacked.
That’s Ironic
I should have expected to see a bunch of whining when I opened the thread.
I’m also cis male and I am worried about strange men coming near me at night when no one is around. Because, you know, muggers and shit. They murder sometimes too. Does that make you whiny little bitches’ hurt feelings go away?
My brother is a cis male too, he was assaulted and robbed, by two males (at least seemingly so, can’t exactly say what they identify as 6 years later).
Just a bunch of males who only complain about the statistics of men being harmed when women talk about systemtic sexism. They’d probably also loudly claim that white people are victims of racism too when a black people talks about being harassed by cops.
Fucking hate Reddit 2.0 for this shit.
Well I was just called a bigot for daring to say that calling quoting the statistic that men commit more murders than women sexism is no different from calling quoting the statistic that most crimes in Sweden are committed by white people racism. So there’s no probably about it in my mind.
Same people will gladly hurl slurs and sexist remarks then call it misandry when a woman said she doesn’t need a man with a dildo, or reverse racism when a black person said they enjoy spices in their meals.
Heaven forbid that woman say she doesn’t need a man because there are other women.
Yup, and we are less likely to be targeted. Also, not a whole lot of women out there murdering around town at night.
More likely to be targeted. But more likely to be the attacker as well. The ways to lower those numbers come from building up the lower and middle class though. More crime comes from desperate people in desperate times. Help the people, minimize the problem. (It won’t ever fully go away, so I can’t ever say get rid of the problem)
Seriously man, it’s so fucking cringe. I thought this website would be better than the pathetic comments here, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Same, i also don’t like to walk around at night. And it’s not because i’m afraid to get hit on by some random women.
Nyah. Different people load different meanings. Like
men love to commit murder
and
women love to make things up
Both are provocative statements which will be viewed fundamentally differently even by people with similar values.
lemmy.world mods finding out that they’ve cultivated a community of reddit incels:
This from a user on an instance that’s known for their open villification of any opinion that goes against the moscow and beijing dictated groupthi–
Wait, wait hold on. Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip? Maybe there’s a vested interest on every side to keep the early adopters of a decentralized social media platform infighting over meaningless stereotypes based on the letters that come after their username, making value judgements based entirely on dictated preconceptions instead of experiential conclusions and honest interaction?
… nah, probably not. And besides, it’s way more fun to just sling mud. Screw u, u commie scuzbucket.
Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip?
nope, it’s because your instance is operated by people who refuse to moderate disinformation under some naive belief that enough debate bro-ing is all it takes to defeat it, failing to understand that the effort it takes to proliferate hate and disinformation is much smaller than the effort it takes to refute it. as such, lemmy.world is becoming overrun with some of the most toxic motherfuckers on the entire platform because all the sane people are being driven away.
Ah, a blanket denial of everything I said. How glad I am that I’m above petty things like pointing out the comically stereotypical behavior of users from other instances. It’s nice up here, on the Mountain of Sarcastic Moral Superiority.
As an actual counterpoint, the primary way that new users get onto lemmy is always going to have the highest concentration of toxic users. Society is, if you haven’t noticed, incredibly toxic. Commonly espoused ideas like trans people being human or civil rights being important aren’t commonly supported by society at large (source: the entire world right now). The easiest way for people who support those things to find their way to instances where those ideas are popularly held is to join the most popular instance and see both the need for other instances with heavier moderation, and what those instances are. How many people hear about blahaj or sh.itjust.works before signing up to lemmy, vs. sign up there as their second account? Personally, I’m pretty grateful that the most toxic opinions are largely self-segregated into a place where people aren’t required to interact with them. It’s less pleasant, sure, but it’s also the best place in the fediverse to get an accurate idea of what the real societal opinions are. And if it gets to be too much, I can always just flee .world (or .ml, I mean seriously guys) like a base coward and spend time under one of my alt accounts on a more heavily moderated instance like .blahaj instead.
that isn’t necessarily true though: you don’t see other popular instances of fediverse platforms having these problems when they actually put effort into enforcing rules that protect the community and discourage disinformation and hate speech, and it doesn’t make them any less of a gateway for new users.
the staff on lemmy.world promote disinformation, and that does not benefit any of us, especially when disinformation has a way of spreading that the separation of instances alone isn’t enough to prevent. most are still either directly federated to lemmy.world, or federated to instances that are federated to lemmy.world.
toxicity itself isn’t inherent to society but a consequence of how our current society is set up, and social media platforms that deliberately proliferate disinformation play a role in that. if you want to actually counter hate and disinformation the first step you should take is to stop outright encouraging it and fight it at the source.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged-ass take. fuck you.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged ass-take. fuck you.
That was pretty clearly self deprecating. Who in the hell calls someone else a ‘base coward’, anyways? For that matter, who would even take seriously being called a base coward? I think you might genuinely be treating everyone else as hostile as a means of self defense, which while understandable is in itself incredibly (edit: exhausting is a much better term) to interact with.
I have real comments here, along the lines of what you mean by promoting disinformation and the moderation standards you would prefer to see, because those are sincerely interesting. But come on, what’s the point in trying to have a discussion when you treat everything like an attack on you & yours? I’m not even trying to be hostile here.
it’s self-deprecating but has hostile implications toward the many users who really did leave to escape ill treatment toward them. marginalized people get enough of that in real life after all. i don’t think they should have to endure it at all, nor do i think it’s cowardly to want to avoid it. if i’m reading too much into this and that wasn’t your intention, i’m sorry. though i’m really not sure how else to interpret that.
when i say lemmy.world promotes disinformation, i’m referring to their recent announcement that they would require community moderators to entertain disinformation in the name of having open debate. they redacted that announcement following the backlash if i recall correctly, but it is nonetheless reflective of how they have been moderating things on their instance, which is apparent in threads like this one that stir the pot and bring out all the rabid misogynists that have been tolerated and continue to be tolerated on here. the lack of moderation toward these things aligns with what they stated in that announcement, that these are ideas we should be open and fair to.
the problem of course is that being open to disinformation alienates the marginalized people affected by it, harms the people who would be deceived by it, and only serves to benefit the people who would spread it. it’s a lot easier to fight disinformation and bigotry by stopping it at the source rather than letting it fester and then trying to take it down with debate. we all know how difficult it is to argue in good faith against those arguing in bad faith. it takes no time and no effort to just make something up, but more time and effort than most people even have the energy to give to refute it with fact-based evidence.
we’re in the midst of a social crisis with the rise of the incel movement and MRA influencers. those who follow these things are more emotionally invested in them than logically, and near impossible to get through to. you might be able to convince a few undecided readers if you put sufficient effort into your replies, but ultimately the spread of these movements are much faster than the handful of individuals who make an effort to stand against them. a lot of us just don’t even have the time. we need support from those who are in the position to actually take preventive measures against them.
This from a user on an instance that’s known for having a large amounts of transphobic, homophobic, misogynist and racists users and a mod team that doesnt do the bare minimun to deal with them
… Then why are you here, participating with that which you revile?
because unfortunately lemmy.ml federates with lemmy.world. even if we were to block lemmy.world on an individual level, the toxicity and hate coming from it affects and influences users of other instances. better to push back against you dweebs whenever you try to incite misogynistic hate than just cover our ears and pretend you aren’t here fucking things up.
Oh good, we agree then. There’s a certain necessity to engage with opinions counter to our own instead of pretending they don’t exist, even if it’s personally uncomfortable to do so.
i counter them out of necessity, but ideally i’d rather the lemmy.world admins do that since that’s supposed to be what they’re for.
So you’d prefer the admins allow you to pretend they don’t exist? I know that’s not what you’re trying to say, but its not an unreasonable extrapolation of your position from the comments you’re making. You feel the need to fight for what you believe in because it’s right to stand up for what you believe in, but you would rather you didn’t have to. I think that’s probably the most universally agreeable statement I’ve ever heard, sincerely. I would, too, like for this to be the case. We just disagree on how to achieve that happy state of affairs, though it’s nice that neither of us prefers a solution like “round up all the .ml/.world users in a big camp” unlike, you know, real world opinions…
Where are you going where you see that much of it?
I’m the last one to defend a tankie… But go fuck yourself.
Nah.
SJW here and I just wandered in, but now I’m grabbing the popcorn and a seat
When the Reddit 2.0 copies all the worst parts of Reddit: 🤯
Well when you scrape the top layer of reddit mold, which is comprised of the most politically and socially charged individuals, and put them in one place, this is to be expected.
Random woman: I like late night walks, but I’m scared for my safety.
This thread for some reason: YOU DON’T THINK MEN GET SCARED? MURDERED!?
Like, chill. Yes, men can absolutely be murdered/hurt walking alone. But are we really going to sit here and act like women are making up their concerns/grievances out of spite? For some reason, if anyone mentions a general concern/issue related to women’s experiences with men, some people trip over themselves to say how it’s actually not an issue and how it’s actually so much worse for men. If I’m listening to a male DV victim and I go, “well, actually, women are more likely to be victims of DV. You know, it’s actually not even an issue for you. Here, look at these numbers that prove that women are the victims. Do you not mention it because you hate women? Why are you trying to ruin our spotless reputation as delicate flowers that can do no wrong with your lies”, you would think I was nuts, and for good reason.
Also men in this thread: THIS IS LITERALLY EXACTLY LIKE RACISM
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I’m surprised it evokes this level of defensiveness. Isn’t man-on-man crime a problem too? Nothing about the post says men can’t be victims too.
Men really are the most emotional of the sexes, we should ensure that they don’t have control over anything important like a nation.
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I mean these comments are pretty insane but cmon you know what you said is not equivalent, this meme uses othering language and people got mad at it because it groups them with people they likely despise. Why can’t we just be on the same team? If I say “being outgoing is a vibe too bad women love emotionally abusing people” I sincerely hope you wouldn’t defend that.
I wouldn’t defend it because I wouldn’t even think it was talking about me in the first place. Some women are emotionally abusive, but I wouldn’t assume they literally meant every single woman on earth is an asshole and feel the urge to swoop in with, “Hey, not all women. Some of us are nice! Here, look at these studies that show that women are more likely to be in the other end of the abuse!”
Honestly, I’m more concerned if you think the threat of murder at night is a comparable threat to emotional abuse from any gender.
That’s fine for you, but people who are judged or seen as dangerous just for the way they are (i.e. often just being a man) might be sensitive to things that imply they’re dangerous because they probably experience it in their daily lives too (a kid being less trusting towards you, a person taking a wider path around you). Angry responses usually come from a place of hurt, these are would-be allies who are just reading it differently.
Not gonna lie that may have been the most depressing thing I’ve ever read. Please read a book on ptsd if you think it’s not comparable to the fear of being killed. “The body keeps the score” is a great book which includes cases caused by emotional abuse.
I am judged for the way I look. I am very large and masculine, as well as black. I am more likely to be confused as the danger than be in danger. I have had women cross the street to avoid me. So, as a person who has experienced this more than being seen as a woman, I still wouldn’t be upset. I don’t get mad or offended when a woman avoids me because she doesn’t know me. I’m a stranger, and she doesn’t owe me her bravery or even her kindness. Yeah, she doesn’t know me, yeah, I’m not a threat, but I don’t know that woman and it’s not for me to police.
And you know what I mean by the last part. I am very, very well aware that emotional abuse is extremely damaging. Any kind of abuse is. What I meant was that if you have the choice of murder or emotional abuse, I would pick emotional abuse simply on the ground that I’m not dying, not because I think it’s “easy.” I thought it was belittling the danger that some people face as not a fear for their lives. That’s why I compared it to male DV because I believe that to be on a similar level, not that emotional abuse just doesn’t exist. I was hoping that seeing it from another perspective, one that is usually ignored and belittled when men go through it, would allow for some understanding as to how it’s hurtful to belittle some women’s concerns walking at night.
Like, this is so fucking ridiculous (not you, this thread). All the post said was “too bad men murder” and we have people twisted up because it wasn’t , “too bad there’s the potential for man to murder another man at night.” i don’t see this hoopla on posts when men say they can’t cry, or that, for an example, they don’t get complimented enough. I don’t women coming in because they’re like, “I actually do compliment men. Do you know how it feels to be assumed to not give compliments with such a statement?” No, I am not saying compliments are on the same level or social stigma, but everyone seems to understand hyperbole in those situations.
I’m saying it’s fine that you aren’t bothered by it, but some people really are, and hate being compared to dangerous people and are sensitive about it, and will react badly to it. The way you respond is valid and the way they respond is valid, if a bit on edge. I can’t really explain it past that, it’s like someone is sensitive about their weight and you say “those clothes fill you out nicely,” and they get mad at you, when that’s not what you meant. It’s not your fault for saying it, it’s just knowing there are a lot of people who are sensitive about being called dangerous, we might want to take that into account.
I actually didn’t know what you meant, because I’ve met and read of many people who were suicidal due to emotional abuse, or live the rest of their lives feeling unsafe and distressed, so it seemed a valid comparison. I don’t think they would agree being killed would be worse than what they went through/the effects it had on them. Obviously this isn’t ALL cases, but that’s why it seemed a valid comparison to me.
I think about this sometimes, but you have 2 sides that are emotionally hurt and defensive. A woman out of an abusive relationship will say “all men are evil” and the men who are sensitive to that will get mad thinking they’re responding to a statement, not emotions. Now the man is likely to respond with emotions too, like “how could you say that about ME!”
I’m not blaming the woman in that state, or even the man for responding that way. Some people are on edge, and saying “men” to them means “including me” and now they have to defend themselves from the attack. If you don’t know why they would be so on edge, I would wager it’s because popular media (or even people in their own lives!) usually insinuates or outright says “men are idiots, men aren’t emotional, men are dangerous, men aren’t bothered by anything.” If you are the opposite of that, you’re going to be upset. This is also true for women. I’m just saying this is why people might be on edge.
Side note: I saw a comment saying “women lose all interest as soon as you open up emotionally” and about 1/2 the replies to them were saying “maybe the really bad women do this, but this is an incel talking point.” It’s not just men who are bothered by being grouped like that.
I guess my issue is why the discomfort of some men is what dominated the conversation (in this instance). Men are also victims of murder, more so than women. But this thread went right into, “You’re making us feel attacked.” This wasn’t about them in this capacity. The energy wasn’t, "I wonder why that is, or, “me too” or even, “lol, hyperbole.” It’s like, “Me too” versus “what about me” energy.
One of the highest posts (at the time of replying) is a damn near essay about how it’s worse for men when the post isn’t even denying that in the first place. Like, I don’t even disagree with it, but why are “you” on the defensive? If we’re on the same side, and both genders don’t want to be murdered, why did “You” come in with that energy? I could understand if they said “me too” and were hit with an essay in return, or silenced. But they weren’t (not that they should have been). Men didn’t join this conversation/thread and expand on the experience, they took it over and completely changed topic because (some of) their hurt feelings were more pressing than the concerns being referenced to. This meme didn’t even pick women out as the sole victim, and they still came in ready to yell over the hypothetical female victim of this hypothetical night crime.
Their feelings being hurt outweighed any truth behind that meme. Their feelings outweighed concerns for their own safety. Their feelings outweighed any woman who did feel like that post was relatable, who could have shared tips or suggestions. If someone did that now, they would have to “prove” their point before they could address it, or that they’re not trying to say they hate xyz, they’re just trying to give tips, etc.,etc.
This is not to say those mens’ feelings do not matter, nor that they should not be addressed in how we talk about violence, this is to say that this wasn’t about them, feelings or otherwise. It was about people, of any gender, who like going out at night, but sometimes get spooked. It was making a joke at how some activities aren’t always safe, and that sucks. If they saw themselves on the same side, I don’t know why they made it “male victim” VS “female victim” in the first place.
(Sorry that this is long as hell. I’m a rambler.)
Tl;dr. (jk)
I guess it’s like, I know this post wasn’t aimed at me but even still reading the words “men love to murder” I’m like “hey what? What did I do??”
I didn’t comment on it because it doesn’t bother me that much, but you’re asking why people who are upset and angry make the conversation about them… I think there’s your answer. They probably don’t even fully understand why they’re angry and just wrote what sounded good to them. I’d wager the majority of guys on lemmy are not neurotypical and already experience people treating them poorly, or thought they were scary because they’re weird, and now they’re being grouped with dangerous people. I know that’s not what the post meant, but again it’s the overweight person being sensitive, they’re not choosing to get upset over it that’s just how they reacted.
semi-related, there is a psychiatrist who made a youtube channel called healthygamergg where he would talk about psychology topics and set up coaching for people to improve their lives. I’m in to psychology so I watched quite a few of his videos, but to the point his community had said “you need to address how women are treated in gaming.” (obviously terribly)
So he made a video talking about how women had it hard and that you can’t exist as a woman in a game without being heckled. 100% on board. Then he said “like, women have it so much harder, you guys are living on easy mode.” and I haven’t watched a video of his since if was so hurtful. I know that’s not what he meant, I know he just meant women have a lot of unique struggles men don’t have etc, but to hear the stuff me and my friends went through being called easy mode was… really hurtful. Point being sometimes people have sore spots, and even if they should read it one way, I can’t blame them for reading it another.
I get that Lemmy skews young and male and not on 2010s social media (like old Twitter) but it’s almost like they weren’t around for the discussions that the “NotAllMen” hashtag generated, or the coining of the term sea lioning.
Read the text again, there is no mention of fear. It doesn’t even mention anyone being scared. It says something else.
Also: women do in fact make shit up. For many reasons, including spite.
If you see something like this and get angry at women, you have a problem.
At best it’s a problem with reading comprehension. At worst, you’re worried that things like this could get in the way of your murdering-women hobby.
My problem with this post is exactly the same I have with any broad assumptions over a poorly defined group: taken as fact, they’re false.
Of course it’s meant to make a point, and a very valid one. But I’ll point out that there are many places in the world where a young woman can go out for a walk at night without fear of never being seen again, and it’s not because there’s fewer men, so perhaps we should focus on the conditions to achieve this?
I’ve been told my whole life tbat i can’t go out at night alone because it 's unsafe. Why is it unsafe? Because there are men out there. Apparently it’s ok for the men in my life to say other men are dangerous but it’s not ok for me to say that men are dangerous. A plague on both your houses. You are all unsafe.
I don’t think anyone could disagree with you, if they’re being honest, men are dangerous. I was hoping for a discussion on why, or if, we can live as a society without one half being afraid of the other, but I’ll take the plague I suppose.
Dude… Just shut the fuck up. Please.
Thank you for your helpful insight.
If the meme was clearly an assertion of fact that men in general love murdering women, yes
Personally I read it as “[some] men love murdering”
Statistically most people don’t get murdered, but air-travel is also very safe, and people are still afraid of flying. If a meme about wanting to travel said “shame that planes crash” people probably wouldn’t be all angry about it. Or perhaps they would, people* are weird
(* again [some] people)
Probably wouldn’t, but some might be a bit miffed if someone said “shame men love crashing planes”. Even though it’s true most commercial pilots are men, so most plane crashes are done by men.
If there were as many man and women pilots, and the vast majority of airline crashes were by men and intentional, that would certainly be worth discussing.
I bet it would still make some men angry though, as people often have an emotional knee-jerk reaction to defend what they see as their in-group. That reaction is not always helpful. Instinctively seeing “men” as your team and “women” as an opposing team leads to all kinds of BS we’d be better off without.
For fairness, it’s also not great when women see “women” as their team and “men” as the enemy. It doesn’t lead to quite as many rapes and murders though.
You speak about people reflexively picking their teams. But what about people that reflexively put everyone they meet on teams?
I hold no allegiance to Team Testosterone but, if everyone who sees me says, “oh, yeah, you’re Team Testosterone. And also I know everything I need to know about you now.” It gets a bit grating.
It is safer for vulnerable people to make those assumptions and I won’t begrudge them their safety. But I don’t have to like how it invalidates the lifetime of interactions I’ve had and I won’t feel compelled to laugh when a offhand joke necessarily implicates me because of the team I’ve been assigned to.
Yeah that sounds pretty fair honestly. Being cautions to feel safe is pretty understandable. Outright considering every man the same would be a bit harsh, and also obviously incorrect.
It is a shame that pilots love to commit plane crashes, though. Fuck pilots.
That’s an interesting point. I’m sure you’re right, it would not trigger anger fits on so many people, by a long shot.
It still irks me tough, because all planes fly (or they wouldn’t be a plane), that’s a defining characteristic. But planes in general don’t crash, and conflating the two just adds to the fear of planes and does very little for our overall safety.
I’m not arguing they’re not dangerous, because they certainly are. But I think the important discussion is why they can crash, and how we can prevent that.
Ah, misandry, my old friend.
ah yes misandry is when women don’t just shut up and accept disproportionate violence from men
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less. It’s easy to quote stats, it’s much harder to address the real issues underneath.
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less.
Right, so literally nothing about the post you’re replying to. Cool.
i don’t see men as the problem, i see patriarchy as the problem. patriarchy causes disproportionate violence from men. observing the consequences that stem from larger social issues and how they affect you personally doesn’t mean you deny the existence of the said issues. calling it misandry only serves to downplay the effects of those consequences and ultimately downplay the existence of their source.
On 196 they love pictures of women punching men. But post the opposite and instaban.
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Violence is bad no matter what gender is doing what to whom. Is there a problem?
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Edit: nevermind
Where is the mention of the victim’s gender in this meme? If there was a man in a picture, not a woman, do you think the text would be less true? Do you feel comfortable walking somewhere at night when some strange man starts walking up to you? I sure as hell don’t despite my possession of a penis.
I mean, if I were to throw out lines such as “if only women didn’t demand so much”, I’d be guilty of misogyny regardless of who I implied the demand was levied against.
The misandry here is “men love to commit murder”, not the implication of who is murdered.
Yes, if you divorce part of a sentence from the context in which it was placed, it does become bigoted.
I assume you don’t think this person means every time they have ever walked anywhere at night in their entire life when they talk about night walks, but you assume this person means every single man. It shouldn’t be necessary to have that explained to you.
Also, you don’t seem to understand the difference between punching up and punching down.
Reading the comments make me feel like I’m reading 4chan. How are people getting triggered by that post
It’s literally engagement bait gender wars bullshit. This conversation is fucking useless until you start asking WHY and none of them do, they just start throwing bullshit around about their own personal anecdotes or start screaming “NO THATS NOT TRUE” “YES IT IS”
It’s a useless never ending “debate”. Man vs. Bear should’ve taught us that. Mods should’ve locked the post or deleted it already IMO.
Enacting change is not the point of the post, it’s just a woman making a joke about the way she experiences life to others who may experience life in the same way. Men just got their feelings hurt and now, instead of trying to prove they’re not sexist, they’re in full denial about the rampant oppression women live every day.
Of course women experience oppression. I’m nonbinary and outwardly feminine and I get a fraction of that derision directed towards me as well. But because I won’t paint that as some inherent failing of all people born with XY chromosomes and point to social issues instead, gender essentialists get mad, and gender essentialists really engage with these posts.
One of the mods posted this
I’m gonna bring this thread up the next time people throw a tantrum when I say Lemmy is sexist.
The problem with that is that the ones throwing those tantrums (or is the plural tantra???) are the same ones making the problem comments here.
Reddit is 4chan with account, .world is trying to be reddit 2.0 by it’s admins, not a shock.
You don’t get it? I’m not upset by it, but it makes sense that others might.
What if instead of men it said Jewish people? Black men? Short Asian females? Brown folks? Makes it a little more obvious why it would be problematic no?
It’s casting blame/shame on an incredibly large group for no particular reason (humor?). It’s just a dumb joke, but again, I get why some might be offended a bit.
If a white dude would say this, the prople getting triggered right now wouldn’t even care. The post wouldn’t even get that many upvotes. Most people are getting triggered because it’s a woman saying it.
the way you describe men as men but women as females says everything i need to know about you and where you stand
The irony of your comment…
It’s pretty crazy, like when people go ‘‘men who rape children should be in prison for life or capital punishment’’ I’ve never once in my life read that and thought ‘‘Oh no! How mean! You’re hurting my feelings, what if instead of ‘men’ you said ‘jews’ then you’d see how hateful and mean your statement is!’’
Are you a murderer, bro? No? Well maybe this ISN’T about you special boy feelings? Crazy I know.
It’s the same when people dicuss any form of racism, or the history of slavery in the US. What do you get? Self identifying white people loading up the comments with ‘‘I DIDN’T DO SLAVERY STOP HURTING MY FEELINGS!!!’’ or ‘‘You know what’s a totally unnecessary justification for chattel slavery in US history? Also African people did slavery. So. STOP HURTING MY SPECIAL WHITE FEELINGS!’’ or ‘‘You know what’s a lie that I use to justify my racist feelings towards anyone with darker skin than me? I can blame all the darks for the actions of individuals who are also darks, but don’t you dare talk to me about white men statistically being more likely to molest kids or commit arson or murder white women they are married to or dating or being more likely to abandon their children that’s FUCKING REVERSE RACISM! I’M THE VICTIM OF THE REAL RACISM NOT THOSE DARK SKIN PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL THE SAME AND EVIL!!’’
it’s fucking exhausting.
I get that you’re really passionate about this topic. But the point seemed to have been missed. The parent post is blaming “men” and not “men who x”.
The most like-to-like comparison I can think of is “Family life is such a vibe… it’s a shame that women like to murder babies tho”. Does that help make it more obvious?
I’m a man and I also think it sucks men like to murder, I’m also not even very likely to be the target of an attack unlike a woman and I feel this way.
Imo getting mad at this is incel behavior, it’s as if you think views like this are why you can’t get laid and not your terrible personality, disgusting habits, and shitty views towards women.
I’m also not even very likely to be the target of an attack unlike a woman and I feel this way
You are technically 3 times more likely to be murdered as a male than as a female though (this number varies by source to be fair, but males are always higher). Now if you remove partner violence (since the post is about random men), that number is even more disproportionate.
The parent point remains though, you’re ascribing an ill on a huge group (half of the entire population!). At best, it’s lazy, low resolution thinking. At worst it’s the source of prejudice, and ill will.
Again, I don’t care. It’s a silly joke, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend to not get why others might be offended by it.
Not in a random attack while I’m walking. If I were a woman I’d def pick a bear over you in the woods.
Overwhelmingly, research has found interesting gender differences among the general public as well as among college students: men are more likely to be victimized by crime than are women, whereas women are more fearful of crime than men
Lemmy.world moment
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You to the woman taking a cab home after a night at the club: “Ma’am, don’t you know you’re 20x more likely to die by falling, car crash, or unintentional poisoning than being murdered? Why don’t you walk home alone instead of taking the cab?”
“She just got raped, beaten and robbed, that totally isn’t a murder! Women are safer than men!” sheesh, talk about not making a point…
You’re a dumbass. Stop gaslighting women. /A man
I’ve been told my whole life, by men, that I can’t go out at night alone, because men, but if I say it it’s forbidden, because woman. Explain.
Edit: Downvoters cannot explain lmao
I find these numbers intriguing. Where did you get them from?
Unintentional deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm
Homicide statistics https://www.statista.com/statistics/1388777/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/
I dont understand why people are so offended by my comment. Why blame a whole demographic by something committed by 0.02% of them? Why are so people so intent on such blame? It accomplishes less than nothing, it just antagonizes the group you are attempting to reach.
Because it happens enough to be a problem. Mexicans are also more likely to die from any of those things than from cartel violence so I guess cartels are not a problem? I’m gonna assume you suck at statistics, because the alternative is that you’re sexist.
Personally I wasn’t offended at all. There’s just so many people throwing numbers around and I’d like to know where they get them from before I make my own judgement if spread that info elsewhere.
From his imagination.
Sure, men are getting killed. But they are not getting killed because of their gender, while women on the other hand are often killed exactly because they are women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide
So, a woman going out alone in the dark is always at risk of being raped, killed or violated in other ways.
Well I imagine that men get killed more in general. The dude might have a point there. It’s just speculation with no fact the way he wrote it.
But if he is right it would make more sense to get some stats on how many men vs women get attacked, stalked, followed, cat called, etc going about their business at night. My imagination is that those numbers are very different and that they - together with the fact that most women are way weaker than most men - would have a reason to be more afraid.
“more men get murdered” isn’t relevant though. Hypothetically, if predominantly men murder lots of men and women equally, a woman would be right to be worried about getting murdered by a man.
Fear of zombies could be at an all time high but that doesn’t mean we should implement policies to deal with the risk of zombie invasion.
I feel old now seeing the 15 years ago, I swear I was in my teens when I first saw it. Oh…
While your sentiment that it is not that bad may be true, the numbers you cited mean nothing.
Death by shark is rather unlikely, but swimming in shark waters while bloodied might still be more dangerous than numbers suggest.
We live in the safest time. But also hear of a lot of bad shit happening every day.
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god forbid women have a perfectly reasonable fear of the people who make the streets unsafe for them to begin with
Women can’t murder?
Edit, it’s dark and night, how can you tell who’s approaching you? Men and women both murder, you’re worried about being murdered, not “men murdering” sexism works both ways yo.
They can, but you are 7.5 times more likely to be murdered by a man.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251886/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-gender/
Certain minorities have higher chances of committing crimes as well but treating them differently based on that is textbook discrimination. Weird how one judgment is okay and the other is not.
Not 7.5 times higher though. No other factor is as big a predictor as gendered violence. Men commit violence against women and other men much, much more often than women do.
And if you are a man, you should be just as mad because the chances that you are a victim of a violent act by another man is much higher too.
Not all men are violent, but men and women are both victims of the anger of this small-subset of men that we have been unable to identify what else they have in common beyond gender.
Mf really whinging about racists not being allowed to say, “Despite…”
Pathetic.
I wonder if that’s only for the USA, does that apply to other countries as well?
Got you covered!
“A 2013 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that men account for an average of 95% of all persons convicted of homicide”
There’s more than one reason someone might not be convicted of homicide and it’s not always because a homicide didn’t happen.
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Well, yeah. Who is doing the overwhelming majority of the murdering? And why does this fact bother upstanding men at all? Are you not secure in your ability to convince others that you’re not a threat? I have no problem with that at all.
oh for fuck’s sake you know this is full of shit. just because women are technically physically capable of doing it, that doesn’t mean they’re statistically an equal threat.
Physically, it’s impossible for a woman to murder a man. They have tiny hands like Trump.
Bears win again
It’s a shame that women molest 13 year old boys.
It’s not a contest bro
You got a snort laugh out of me in an otherwise stressful thread. Thanks.
There has to be something seriously wrong with them because they chose to reply like that, scary deflection
Wtf level of misogyny are you on that this is your response
At night on walks!? We are talking about the dangers of walking alone at night. Are 13 year old boys afriad to walk in the park because they will get jumped by pedophiles of the opposite gender?
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You’re part of the problem. You hear that violence from men is too high, and rather than think what you might help do about it or how to avoid adding to that statistic yourself, you feel threatened by it and try to defend yourself with whataboutism.
Ironically, it’s probably this kind of emotion immaturity that leads men to violence more. Please, critically engage with these ideas and learn some emotional maturity.
GFY.
Use your words.
Why do you males always get so emotional when the adults bring up facts and logic??? 🤣🤣🤣
That’s ironic considering I post a link to a factual article about a current case and am met with hostility and hysterical responses.
I mean… you’re the one being hostile and hysterical now too telling people to go fuck themselves instead of defending or elaborating your point.
Decorum isn’t called for when attacked for posting an opposing circumstance article.
Oh I’m not criticizing your lack of decorum. I’m criticizing your hypocrisy.
hysterical responses
Alrighty there little guy, did you think a single data point is representative of a broader societal trend or something? Damn, boys are total arse at statistics.
The shitpost contains the over generalization.
It’s really not that deep. Why can’t men just take a joke?
You first bitch
Get your misogynist ass outta here.
Hilarious reaction to a factual article.
Wow, a single article being used in a feeble attempt to overstate a trend that’s almost a magnitude smaller than its counterpart, and that doesn’t compare very well to the topic of the thread?
Gee, I wonder why people aren’t convinced with you spewing facts.
Where is the attempt to overstate a trend? You make things up that don’t exist.
Your point is “look at what this one woman did” as a counterpoint to “women can’t go out at night because violence is so prevalent”. How am I making that up? That’s literally what you’re doing. Lol
Yes, don’t go outside at night because Boogeyman everywhere. Whatever.
it’s a statistic fact that men commit an absurdly high amount of sexual violence against women. the best you could come up with is ONE article of ONE case demonstrating the opposite. go fuck yourself.
Yes, basically. Except there’s no boogey but a man. Welcome to womanhood. 😉
you literally said “women molest 13-year-old boys” as if it’s a common occurrence the way men raping women is. the best you could do was cite one article about one case. you know exacly what it is you’re doing. stop playing dumb.
Yup, still a misandrist piece of rotten garbage.
I’m a misandrist? How is it not misogynist that every single fucking time violence against women gets mentioned on Lemmy, a million ex-reddittors crawl out of the woodwork to change the subject? Nobody is saying that women can’t be murderers or molesters, but the thing is: a woman is way more likely to be, say, murdered by a man than another woman or the reverse. Because we have spent thousands of years building a culture where men are taught to see women as lesser beings.
No one is saying that violence against men doesn’t exist or that it is acceptable, let alone for a few ter’f’s, but the fact that people like you feel the need to bring up violence against men really makes me question your motives and honestly, it just feels like some lemmings simply want to silence us every single time misogyny and violence against us is brought up. There is time and place to talk about both sexual and physical violence that men and boys face, and it absolutely is a topic that should be discussed, but that time and place shouldn’t be every time misogyny is being talked about.
When a female teacher sleeps with a male student it is international news because those are very popular stories that get a lot of clicks (you know why).
When a male teacher does it, it’s local news for maybe a week.
This can lead stupid people into thinking there is a endemic problem with female teachers abusing male students, but that’s like thinking it’s easy to won the lottery because there’s always lottery winners in the news.
Two things can be true at the same time.
except the implication kikutwo’s trying to get across here isn’t true at all. stop entertaining this garbage. one instance of something happen is not equivalent to an immense amount of something else happening.
And you wonder why women feel uncomfortable around you.
Wow these comments are a trash fire.
What exactly do you expect with a post like this?
