I only have a familiarity with Christianity and the “no other gods before me” thing. I am curious what other religions have to say about it.
Atheist here. My personal philosophy says to leave them alone as long as they leave me alone. If you start to preach or force it on me, I’ll do something in the range of: politely excuse myself, to tell you to fuck off, depending on how forceful, persistent, and annoying you are.
But in almost all such encounters so far I’ve just smiled and nodded because it was often coming from people using religion to bring them comfort in difficult times, and they were often not forceful. And if they say things like “God bless you”, I take it as a sign of respect, because they often say it out of either gratitude or out of positive feelings towards me. I’ve been fortunate enough to not encounter many religious fanatics, though I’ve heard many stories of them and am ready to pull out the Ol’ Reliable in the form of “Hail Satan” if it gets to that.
Same thing here, but I am worried about the influence of “magical thinking” on our society.
And you can’t escape this. Of course whether your neighbor goes to church on sunday is their choice to make. But in my opinion the state, schools etc should be secular. And they’re not. Religion influences politicians and people to have biases, for example towards abortion, gay marriage etc. and that definitely has an influence on law, my life and that of my fellow citizens. I think lots of christians forget what the word ‘evangelion’ (the gospel) means. It translates to “Good News”. And not not prohibition and trying to tell other people who they’re allowed to marry.
Yeah, secularism is definitely something we should strive for. The effects of religion depend on which it is and which country we are talking of course.
I mean the Age of Enlightenment happened in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries. That’s a long time ago. I believe it’s (still) not part of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany / constitution, where I live. It’s somewhat different for the USA due to their history. But they have the more annoying conservative politicians and parts of society. I think as of now, major parts of the population don’t care anymore about what the founding fathers came up with in the late 18th century. So there’s no advantage there.
Yeah I’m German too. We have religion in school and as a tax.
And we were a bit late to the party with same-sex marriage because of the party with ‘christian’ in the name…
What I think is outrageous is that we have denominational hospitals, schools and kindergärten, and they don’t have to abide by the same labor law as literally everyone else. They can - and will - fire people for things like divorce. Or being gay. All whilst being (sometimes entirely) funded by the state or health insurance.
And in my opinion we shouldn’t allow them to openly discriminate against women and gay people… Have a look at what the danish people did and force the catholic church to do same-sex marriages… and accept women as priests. I really don’t get why they get a special treatment when it gets to hating on people and they’re the only ones allowed to do it professionally.
And if they say things like “God bless you”, I take it as a sign of respect
Very different from someone in the South saying “God bless your heart”, which means they think you’re being stupid.
Just start answering your door naked holding a sword, they will NEVER return
My (lack of) religion’s attitude towards all religions:
My best friend already has been for a little over a decade and he’s going to officiate my eventual wedding 😁
May you all be touched by thy noodley appendage
I’ve seen that porn and I am not onboard, but you do you so long as nobody gets hurt.
“No God before me” can have, and does have in the history of Christianity, three possible interpretations.
- the exclusivist one (Evangelical churches mainly): the Christian God is the only God, you have to confess him directly to be saved.
- the inclusivist one (mainly the Catholic church, and some Protestants), the Christian God is the only God, but you can unknowingly pray him when you pray an other God within other traditions, in other words you can be Christian without knowing it.
- the pluralistic one (other Protestants), most religions are equally valuable, but if you are Christian you should pray only the Christian God.
Of course this is just a model, all positions are deeper than that and most people mix two or even the three models. I don’t know where the Orthodox Churches stand.
For myself, I tend to be somewhere between the second and the third model.
Thank you, I was tired of endless atheist non-answers.
We hate Microsoft. Long live RMS and the flying spaghetti monster!
Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!
Ramen!
Personally, as an agnostic (leaning atheist) I don’t have any particular dogma regarding other religions to follow. I will however share how I view religions.
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I’ve yet to encounter a religion that is verifiably true. As such I consider the religions of other people to essentially be opinions (personal beliefs).
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Opinions should not be held sacred in society, nor should they grant special rights.
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The religions of others only really become a problem if they make demands based on said religious belief, attempt to impose their beliefs on others, or spread verifiably false information.
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Interestingly, Christianity is compatible with Judaism and Islam in that regard, though I’m not sure exactly what the other two say in kind.
The Christian God is the Muslim Allah, who is also the Hebrew Yahweh. All the exact same being.
Christianity embraces the God of the Torah but rejects the Muslim faith. There are exceptions but mainstream no.
You’re close, but some Christians would argue that the god worshipped by those of Jewish faith is not the same god either and therefore not embrace that god. Those Christians would say that since Jesus revealed the trinitarian (Father, Son, and Spirit) nature of their god, to reject that nature is to worship a different god altogether. Similar to how Muslims acknowledge their shared history and feel a respect for Judaism and Christianity, those Christians accept and respect those of Jewish faith, but will still point out their incomplete understanding of the god the Christians worship.
That is a belief that existed and maybe some still believe it, but I don’t think any large organizations would consider that canon. It’s generally considered a heresy, called Marcionism.
Christianity embraces the God of the Torah but rejects the Muslim faith.
Still, Allah is the same being as the Christian “God”.
I’m not saying Islam is canon to Christianity. Just that when Christians talk about God and when Muslims talk about Allah, they are talking about the same being.
Just like in English, we call the protagonist of the Pokemon anime “Ash”, but in Japan, he’s called “Satoshi”. But it’s the same character no matter which name you refer to him as.
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I am a pagan. There are pretty much no widely accepted texts within paganism that make any statements about subject. In my experience most pagans are quite happy to coexist with other religions in general - and given that in almost all circumstances pagans will be in a small minority that makes perfect sense. On the other hand, most pagans that I know are far less happy to coexist with the more bigoted and hateful varieties of religion.
There is a strong feminist trend within paganism and this - particularly linked with the ahistorial but often assumed heritage of witchcraft, and the associated history of hanging and burning of witches - does not lead the more patriarchal end of the Abrahamic religions to sit well with a lot of pagans - and I know a lot who are far happier about visiting the roofless moss-covered shell of an abandoned church, with a hawthorn growing in the apse than they are visiting an occupied one (unless it is in search of a sheel-na-gig etc).
On the other hand, there is a strand of Norse paganism that crosses into white supremacy and neo-nazism, so that brings its own hate, bigotry and patriarchy. I do not know what their stance on other religions is.
As a Thelemite, we’re similar enough that I just wanted to say howdy. Not many “new age” practitioners on Lemmy from what I can tell, so it’s always exciting to find another one in the wild!
It’s difficult to tell how many there are around here overall. There are a scattering of pagan, witchcraft and occult communities, but pretty much no activity on any of them: I have made a few attempts.
But then every so often someone does post something on one of them and at least some of those posts get a significant number of up votes - but then no follow-up activity at all… so I don’t know who is up voting or what their background is.
Anyway, howdy back at ya.
Two words: Spanish inquisition
Didn’t expect that.
You never do
Buddhism is widely accepting of other religions. I’m atheist, and love the teachings of the Buddhas.
I think that’s baked into all the abrahamic religions. The Old Testament says so, and the Quaran also doesn’t like heretics, especially apostasy is considered really bad. As far as I know the death penalty is how to deal with apostates in Islam. But it’s not really better in christianity or judaism, the same tribal concept of extinguishing rival tribes is in the Old Testament and Torah. All these religions believe in the same god. So theoretically they’re more compatible with each other than for example with atheists or people believing in different or multiple gods. Or people renouncing their ways.
You can have a look at buddhism, hinduism etc to find a different perspective, indigenous beliefs, pantheism or agnosticism. Or the ancient greeks, romans or egypts or maya civilization. They all have a very different view than we have with our abrahamic God.
I personally like science. Just because it’s the only sane approach to knowledge. And it has proven to be the way that delivers the goods. And I think this and the observations I made contradict with the existence of any God. And we should not base our decisions on ancient tribal beliefs, so I’m not okay with any of the Gods who tell people what to do and what not to do. I link proper philosophy and progress in what we deem to be our current ethics.
Asking seriously: “ no gods before me”, does that mean it’s ok to have gods after that god?
Yes. Pavel Datsyuk is not God, but when he stepped on that ice, he was no longer a man, but a god.
Before as in order of priority, not chronologically
Ok, so him first, Zeus or some other god second?
Some Christians in India worship Jesus as their top god, and local deities as secondary gods. I’m guessing this is common in places where Christianity spread peacefully into a culture with a polytheistic (and preferably decentralised) pantheon.
It means “before” as in “in front of”, not “occurring previously to”
Okay, so, what about after? Meaning he’s #1, can you have a bunch of others behind him?
I guess like the Catholics do, with Mary and saints and such?
You are supposed to never have any other god before the Christian god at any moment. That means that if you pray to the Christian god every day of the year except for one day where you suddenly pray to another. Then during that day you put another god before the Christian god. Think of it like cheating in a relationship. Even if you are exclusive to your partner 99% of the time that 1% still counts as cheating.
But what if I pray to the Christian Catholic God thing first, and then pray to other Christian Catholic Saints, or whatever they’re called, isn’t that putting their God first and then other people / gods second? Which means pray to him first and not last.
So I would pray to this Catholic god, then something else, therefore he is “first” and not “before”.
Know what I mean?
Indoctrinated I mean raised catholic so I got this one. To them, praying to saints is just a way to pray to God. You ask the saints to intercede for you. Basically pass them a note to pass to the big G personally.
How’s that not putting someone or something before god?
It doesn’t make sense.
Not before literally, but above. Catholics only worship God, but they venerate other figures. Like imagine you want to send a message to the ceo of your company, but you’re a lowly wage slave. Do you snap off an email to the big guy himself, or do you ask your manager to pass the message along? Probably the latter. But even though you’re going through a middleman, the ceo is still the big boss. Same thing with God and saints.
With catholicism you’re pretty much allowed to make up anything. We just have one god. But that’s obviously not enough so we made up the holy trinity, so he/she is one… But also three. And we’ve incorporated pagan holidays and beliefs. There it fairies, monsters etc, we just call them angels and deamons and such. And you can pray to god… Or saints or whatever you like. There is a process to it. It has to by accepted by the pope and the vatican. And it takes some time. But they’re not opposed to contradicting dogma. And don’t believe in logic in the first place. So I’d say go ahead… You can simultaneously have gods before and after and at the same time have it the other way around. It doesn’t need to make sense. If you’re catholic, talk to the pope. He’s infallible. Just don’t introduce “making sense” to anything. We can’t have that with religion.
It’s just a few very old books with how people tried to make sense of the world back then, plus a few thousands of years of extra lore added on top, varying politics during the times and a few old men running the business.
All religions by definition disagree with others and believe the core beliefs of the other religions to be false.
How much a religion implements it’s superiority over falsehood (which I suspect is what you are talking about), depends on who is in CONTROL Whoever is in control will bend religion to achieve what they want, and we can argue different till the cows go home, nothing will change.
Welcome to Humanity, enjoy your stay!
All religions by definition disagree with others and believe the core beliefs of the other religions to be false.
Not necessarily. God by definition, as the creator of the universe, does not abide by the universe’s laws. Thus it’s possible to say two opposing things about God which are both true, and nothing you can say can be perfectly true as the limited language can’t describe the unlimited.
100% agree. God can’t be subject to the law of the universe or he wouldn’t be God. He’d be a human then, have to abide by physics and logic. Wouldn’t be omnipotent, not all-knowing and supernatural things wouldn’t exist. Couldn’t have created the universe in the first place. So he obviously can be anything and its opposite at the same time if he so likes.
In addition there are lots of religions with the same basis and same god. We just disagree on whether Jesus or Mohammed or whoever was his last messenger.
I always thought the Ottoman Empire’s millet system was interesting. Basically since it was a Muslim country that allowed other religions to exist, how do you rule them? Doesn’t seem quite fair to make them follow your religious rules, but also you are a religious empire protecting everybody and what’s in it for you to protect these non believers?
So they just had different legal systems set up for each religious community, and non-Muslims just had to pay a tax (the jizya).
Crom laughs at your god.
