Miyazaki is my favorite angry old man.
Life is hard when you dreamed of being a chèf but got popular with animation.
Yeah it sucks for him to have ended up creating works beloved by hundreds of millions and touched and changed lives
he could have made some steaks and shit but oh well
Relatable. I’ll never achieve my dreams either.
he’s a shitty father though.
The bigger problem here is the loss of jobs and we are talking about a huge loss of employment that will affect economies really hard. The future looks more and more bleak.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t absolutely require job for my life. I do require nutrients and shelter though…
Uh huh, so your going to grow and hunt your own nutrients then I guess? Build your own shelter?
I guess you could do all that if you had the money to buy the required land for it, but then again if you had that kind of money you didn’t need a job in the first place.
Do you really not see the difference between food/shelter, things that you WILL die without, and employment?
The only reason you need the latter for the former (and I mean, no you don’t but whatever) is because of how society is set up.
Your body doesn’t shut down if you don’t clock in to your job for X days.
Well it kind of does because if I don’t have a job then I don’t get money, And I need that to buy things like food and shelter. And yes that’s because of the way society is set up but since it’s the way every single society on Earth is set up, I think we have a problem.
There has never been a culture on Earth at any point in history that didn’t have some version of money.
I know what you were saying, but you’ve missed the point.
There has never been a culture on Earth at any point in history that didn’t have some version of money.
What? Of course there has. Money isn’t something that has just existed forever. It’s an entirely man-made concept.
I mean technically you are correct, but more in the “it’s not the fall that kills me, but the landing” kind of way.
My body doesn’t shut down because I don’t clock in, it shuts down because I don’t have any food due to not clocking in.
And yes, the only reason I need to work is because how our society’s are set up. But guess what? I’m living in that society bottomtext so I can’t exactly get away from it. Unless I have loads of, you guessed it, money.
Not to mention that in a society based on trading goods for goods we still need to work to actually get our hands on those goods.
We could go farther back of course reaching the hunter&gatherer time period, but I somehow doubt you want to go that far.
Why do we have to go backwards? We’re the most technologically advanced that we’ve ever been.
Your brain has just been rotted by capitalism.
Hah. you can be as “technologically advanced” as can be, if your society still lags behind significantly it doesn’t matter.
It’s not that my brain has been rotted by capitalism, it’s that I absolutely have no faith that we will ever reach beyond tribe mentality.
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All these job people are just barking up the wrong tree. Oh no my 9-5 is gone instead of oh wow now we collectively have less work load and should focus on resource redistribution.
Hopefully Soylent Green comes fast to save us.
The bigger problem here is the loss of jobs and we are talking about a huge loss of employment that will affect economies really hard.
I would say that’s a tangential problem. Because, you know, in theory…
But the deeper problem is ultimately in expertise as a learned skill developed over time and through practice. If you’re de-skilling work, you’re dismantling the tools by which we train the next generation of artists and production crews. If we were just replacing humans with machines for some route manual labor (like Pixar replaced Disney’s old hand drawn animations with a newer CGI look), the result would be a new style and perhaps less tendentious from route reproductions.
But we’re gutting the whole process of development which means you’re losing the pool of skilled professionals who know how to create CGI (or even flip-book style 60s animation) from first principles. That means sacrificing whole fields of specialized expertise for… what? This?
“A real labor of love”
Christ. It’s like people cosplaying as real artists.
I’m not sure Sam Altman even knows what labor is.
Oh God I just thought that was some random “AI artist.” It’s so much more cringe now that you’ve brought my attention to who posted it.
That will only happen if a society completely is reorganized to get rid of money or if they introduce universal basic income (at a rate that actually allows people to live).
Realistically I can’t see either of those things happening.
Or, more broadly, when individuals are recognized as valued participants in the community rather than obsolete expenses to try and scratch off the books.
Realistically I can’t see either of those things happening.
Not under current business and political leadership, no. But with a strong union movement leading a next generation of working class people… maybe.
What about the transition.
Because this will take time to happen, and the thing about not eating because you have literally no money, is it’s a rather immediate concern. You can’t just wait a decade or so for everyone to sort it out.
What about the transition.
It’ll likely be a bloodsoaked mess, given the history of these things.
Just shifting the tax burden from salaries toward capital should make it less of a problem. When capital income is taxed less than salaries wealth concentration gets worse as workers are replaced.
But hey, GDP line goes up, so it must be good right?
Reminds me of how millennials and generations onward have learned less and less maintainence skills to the point where most of us can’t sow or fix shit if it’s broken because we grew up in a consumer culture where you just buy a new one when the old one breaks. The quality of products have decreased too so they break quicker which gives people incentive to buy a new one instead of fixing.
My parents generation hold on to old items and they patch up their clothes and know how to fix shit around the house but they didn’t teach me any of that because the culture shifted and it wasn’t really needed.
We are not only losing skills and tactile learning and understanding, we are also rapidly torpedoing out planet into a massive trash heap. Which is a bit of a duh, I know, but still.
I for one have noticed the insane decline in the quality of clothes after covid. It is shockingly shitty now and tears faster than ever. Shirts and leggings I bought ten years ago still hold up while similar shirts and leggings from a few years ago already tear or unravel. It is shocking. I guess this is what will eventually happen to art too.
millennials and generations onward have learned less and less maintainence skills to the point where most of us can’t sow or fix shit if it’s broken because we grew up in a consumer culture where you just buy a new one when the old one breaks
Planned Obselecence means a lot of modern consumer goods are deliberately designed to be difficult to repair.
More cheap plastic used for buckles and clasps. More glue used in place of screws or latches. More electronics soddered or otherwise made irreplaceable/inaccessible to an amateur. Shoes, in particular, leap to mind. Shoe repair used to be a standard dry cleaning service. It’s practically extinct today. Very few good ways to repair a modem sneaker.
My parents generation hold on to old items and they patch up their clothes and know how to fix shit around the house but they didn’t teach me any of that because the culture shifted and it wasn’t really needed.
There’s a time cost to repair and maintenance that’s often frustrating. I don’t blame folks for opting towards convenience. But I feel horrible every time I take out the trash, knowing how much plastic waste I accrue every month.
I’ve seen pretty much the same thing happening in the programming space. In another 10 years there’s going to be a massive shortage of senior programmers who are capable of doing anything more complicated than the AI, and able to sort out the messes everyone’s creating with it.
All the companies not wanting to hire entry level programmers right now is also a big problem for those starting now. I can only hope companies realize AI is not a replacement for a human’s learning ability.
Not an AI problem though. Perhaps AI will help some people understand that there are some big ass problems in our society.
Time for TheLuigiAI.
With big asses being one of them. Obesity and it’s complications are getting out of control. I’m in favor of free glp-1 clinics and then free antidote clinics for whatever terrible blight the free glp-1 clinics unleash upon us in 5-10 years.
Say what you will about the soulessnes of AI imagery (I find it very dissapointing), but this new technology is going to take our jobs argument is incredibly tired boomer-speak that shows a lack of understanding of history and a lack of imagination.
As a tool, it should be highly useful to artists to help them create things. However, the fact that these algorithms (I don’t care to call them AI because they aren’t) are stealing people’s work and then shitting out mediocre garbage and the people in the creative industry who tend to finance such things start thinking that “these machines can just do what an artist can so why pay for an artist” is the problem.
What if it allows other creative people to create newer works rather than these few people. Could spell a new Renaissance of creativity that didn’t exist before. Lots of people have great stories to tell but lacked artistic ability or resources.
One of my favorite things is when people mash up two popular songs and shared it on Napster. Can’t get anywhere close to that today without risking account bans on most sites. I say open the flood gates.
One of my favorite things is when people mash up two popular songs and shared it on Napster. Can’t get anywhere close to that today without risking account bans on most sites. I say open the flood gates.
Eh? Of course you could.
You think you could?
I think the minute it gets popular the lawyers start getting paid
Ever hear of Avalanches? Their music is incredible and it’s made entirely from samples, including some from well known artists such as the Beatles.
Though they are kind of the exception as their second album took 16 years to complete, in no small part due to asking permission for every sample.
But there’s entire genres of music that either utilize samples, or are literally constructed completely from them.
Girl Talk is another one that comes to mind. It’s pretty much entire albums full of mashups.
DJ Shadow is a legend who, I believe, only uses vinyl for sampling.
Hip hop would not have survived without sampling. Listen to Madlib and J Dilla. Check out Wu-Tang Clan and listen to some of RZA’s beats.
Check out MF DOOM’s producer alter ego (Metal Fingers). Dude put out an entire series of instrumental tracks made using samples called “Special Herbs,” that both he and other hip hop artists have used for backing tracks.
Beastie Boys were one of the first to do it with Paul’s Boutique.
I would bet that the majority of music that’s out there that is sample-based has not been approved by the original owners of the pieces. They only really get targeted if it becomes popular, which is why Avalanches chose to go the route of getting approvals.
See this is the (well, one major) problem with copyright.
Imaginary property for me (“AI” goons), not for thee (actual artists).
Unfathomably based
An insult to life is working 12h a day japanese style for the industry. I’m aware that they do things differently at studio ghibli but at the end of the day they are a for profit company making billions like the rest. Labeling AI as an insult to life sound like much bigotism.
Tell me you’ve never seen a Studio Ghibli movie without telling me you’ve never seen a single Studio Ghibli movie. Literally every one of them contains some “advancing technology isn’t necessarily a good thing and the old ways have value” message. If AI were personified in one of their movies, it’d be a oozing black oil demon monstrosity spitting soot into the air.
It’d be like Banksy doing advertisement for Nestle. It’s just so contrary to the message they put out.
A message about technology isn’t the same as labeling AI as “an insult to life itself.”
This guy simply sound like a bigot. His studio is going to rely on AI in any case through the software they are using. If they use photoshop they are already using AI.
I’m at such a loss for words having read such ignorance spouted as truth. You are truly a master sophist.
Where’s the “advancing technology isn’t necessarily a good thing and the old ways have value” message in Kiki’s Delivery Service?
A magical person delivering mail instead of a soulless automated machine? The value of human experience and interactions? I didn’t say it was the core message, I said it was a message in all his movies. A “theme” or “motif”, if you will.
Bigoted against what?? A machine? The money grubbing assholes who are using those machines to profit on other people’s work without giving them a dime in compensation? Who the hell are you defending here?
Studio Ghibli and their artists put in millions of hours collectively to create works if absolute art. Sam Altman just borrowed millions of dollars to rip them off.
Bigoted against a tool that is going to change the industry and digital art, the same way computers did back in the day.
If you throw AI at your hand draw 20 frames per second you are going to get the smoothest film ever and that’s just a stupid example. You can use AI for a thousand things already from the story boards to your final work.
a tool that is going to change the industry and digital art, the same way computers did back in the day.
This type of comparison makes no sense: with traditional art you have to put skill, knowledge and personality into your work, with digital art it’s the same thing but with computers, with AI “art” you don’t. You just ask the mighty machine what you want and it’ll spit processed garbage heavily approximating what you asked for. You could try fixing the output yourself, but at that point it’s no longer just AI, it becomes a mix of digital art and AI “art” with all the other problems the latter carries with it such as copyright, constant output reprocessing and especially energy consumption as making one crappy looking output takes way too much power for it to be viable in the long term.
with traditional art you have to put skill, knowledge and personality into your work, with digital art it’s the same thing but with computers, with AI “art” you don’t.
I think many people here have a romantic view of how art is made and never tried AI image generators. Would you be able to tell apart an artist who use reference pictures and one who doesn’t?
An artist using references doesn’t just copy and paste, there’s a whole process of understanding what they’re looking at, their interpretation of it, of why it is like that and of how they can learn something new from it, things that AI generators cannot do. And the “romantic” part is essential because that’s what art is about. You make art to transmit a message, an emotion, it isn’t just about making something “pretty”, that’s something contemplated only by naive people who never made art or who don’t understand it.
Who said that AI art doesn’t carry a message or emotions? With AI you can create much easily photorealistic faces that carries twice the emotion than a sketch with frog eyes.
An artist using references doesn’t just copy and paste, there’s a whole process of understanding what they’re looking at, their interpretation of it, of why it is like that and of how they can learn something new from it, things that AI generators cannot do.
Why are you assuming there’s no artistic process behind using image generators? Have you ever play around with graphic softwares?
There are a thousand ways you can make art. In the japanese industry they use may techniques that one could consider gimmicks, for example even famous mangaka have assistants who draw for them or they use 3d models or real pictures as backgrounds.
Do you know the context of the quote?
Yes, only one thing can be an “insult to life”. GOOD point.
I think we all agree here that japanese work ethics are shit
I don’t see mathematicians pitching a fit that lesser skilled people can use calculators to produce their results. I don’t understand the artists’ complaining that AI allows the lesser skilled people to produce an image of their ideas.
As always, the problem isn’t the tech. The problem is capitalism forcing people into competing with the tech.
I don’t think you have a good handle on what mathematicians do.
Nor what artists really do
It’s a metaphor.
But also, the distinction may become irrelevant: https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-close-are-computers-to-automating-mathematical-reasoning-20200827/
I don’t see mathematicians pitching a fit that lesser skilled people can use calculators to produce their results. I don’t understand the artists’ complaining that AI allows the lesser skilled people to produce an image of their ideas.
Dumbest analogy I’ve seen in a minute.
But art is also one of the most fundamental things everyone learns to do. Literal children learn to do art, and doodling is something everyone knows how to do.
Although I do think that the issue is exacerbated by the enthusiast-types who will tune a model on someone’s work as a form of vengeance, and smugly brag about how they can have the computer crunch out something approximating their work.
They’re not replicating children’s art. It’s complex art that takes more study to produce. Children learn math, too. Calculators still help.
While AI is boosting productivity and is amazing, it also appeals to our worst inner instincts of giving in to authority and outsourcing and taking credit for others’ work.
Edit2: forgot this is the luddite thread:D
deleted by creator
The article isn’t about the new animation but about how the old clip has resurfaced and is retreading its origin and how it relates to recent events.
Now coming back to Miyazaki’s thoughts on AI, a widely shared video from 2016 shows the legendary animator reacting with disgust to an AI-generated animation demo.
The animation in the clip reminded him about his friend’s disability and how the creators of the animation didn’t regard ableism while making it. Later in the clip, one of the creators had expressed that they would like to create a machine that could “draw pictures as humans do” and Miyazaki was depicted as displeased after this statement.
The article doesn’t go into if there were any comments from Miyazaki on the Ghibli-style image.
I thought it was John dunsworth
Suh-NAP!
