- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
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This is completely fucking shocking. I hope all the Uncommitted folks are proud of themselves.
EtHnIc ClEaNsInG iS bEtTeR tHaN gEnOcIdE.
It’s different. Not “better”.
It is not different. They used genocide to ethnically cleanse Palestine.
Please delineate the differences.
Nono you see, Trump loves Palestinians, he’s moving them to a safe space so they don’t get genocided again.
Their land? Well he will take care of it in the meantime… What a humanitarian guy! /s
People really seem to think there is some sort of major dividing line between ethnic cleansing and genocide and I do not get it.
The dividing line is how good your PR is.
Not different. The Clinton admin invented the term whole cloth in order to not have to get involved in Rwanda.
While your equivocate, people are literally dying.
But as long as you feel ok.
That’s literally been the last year and you felt fine the whole time.
Please, tell me more about how I feel.
Notice how all those bot accounts that were so active leading up to the election have completely vanished from the internet now? Yeah.
They’re still a few on .ml claiming Gaza/Palestinians are better under trump. Absolutely nothing will convince them otherwise
Not all people with bullshit opinions are bots. But I think the bots make those people think their opinions are more valid than they actually are, which causes them to be more active.
Agreed.
Yesterday my wife was crying again because of Gaza. I had to sit with her as she was calling people from there who lost a child, a parent, a husband, whatever, to the americans bombs
Then I go on the internet and all I see is a bunch of dirty americans talking about them as a pawn in their american partisan politics with their idiotic “See We TolD YoU So”. You guys hate leftists more than you have actual genociders lmao. You’re pathetic.
Death to america.
notice how all the dnc drifters are now partying in Hawaii instead of fighting for their voters ?
The difference in the PoliticalCompassMeme subreddit is night and day. One of the few places you can still bully fascists without getting banned.
Why did anyone bring that shit hole here???
80% of Israelis support ethnic cleansing of Gaza. If they actually attempt it, what makes you think Biden/Kamala would have tried to stop it?
I think the only difference is that Trump would cheer on the cleansing while Kamala would have tut tutted about it.
Kamala isn’t dead. She hasn’t fallen off the face of the Earth. Has she released any statement even now condemning the idea? She doesn’t even have to fear AIPAC anymore. She has nothing to lose in condemning the idea. If she won’t even release a statement condemning it now, what makes you think she would have lifted a finger to prevent it if she had been elected?
That was the whole point of the uncommitted movement. The only difference between Trump and Kamala’s Israel policy is that Trump vocally supports war crimes, while Kamala quietly supports them.
Ooh, a statement. Well that’s all she, or anyone else who supports Palestinians getting to stay alive and in their homes can do now. Everything we’re discussing on this thread has become pointless, because the side that wants Israel to take both Gaza and the West Bank and violently remove all the residents there now controls all branches of the federal government. It’s gonna happen, and we’ve run out of ways to stop it after this last election. You may as well demand your pet cat make a statement, it will have as much effect.
Ooh, a statement. Well that’s all she, or anyone else who supports Palestinians getting to stay alive and in their homes can do now.
What was she doing while running for president? She couldn’t give a proper statement even then, just weasel words that clearly still showed support for israel. Words are all democrats ever have while they continue to kneel to the oligarchy (or be part of the oligarchy themselves).
the side that wants Israel to take both Gaza and the West Bank and violently remove all the residents there
Funny that you think this sentiment is contained to only one of the two major parties in the US. Their actions speak otherwise.
Your vote is the only power you have. That means you should use it as effectively as possible. Which means you shouldn’t only use it on the ideologically pure, you also use it for people who are more in that direction than the alternative.
The result of this last election is someone who supports a Palestinian state lost, and someone who supports total Israeli domination won. Your takeaway that something else happened is rare and is not the takeaway of the media, the voters, or the parties. Palestine is now dead in American politics and support for Palestine in any form will now be seen as a liability, that is if any Palestinians are left after this term. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Your mistake is in thinking the parties are different in any meaningful way when it comes to israel. Our votes are powerless in the face of lobbying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlKmWa8p4UM
80% of Israelis support ethnic cleansing of Gaza. If they actually attempt it, what makes you think Biden/Kamala would have tried to stop it?
It’s fucked up that you think they aren’t attempting it right now, or for the past year and a half.
That would be even more damning for Kamala.
The point is that the people who were attacking Biden for his Israel policies were just Trump supporters (and literal bots) that were masquerading as passionate Israel supporter. They didn’t give a shit about who would be best for Palestine, they just wanted to get Trump elected.
We know this now by the silence from those people now. End game was achieved when Trump got elected.
Is there silence? I see plenty of comments routinely downvoted to Hell on this topic. People just downvote the dissenting voices and then pretend they don’t exist.
I’m sorry, but were the democrats stopping the thing?
Stop framing this like this is on the people who didn’t want the genocide to happen. It’s such a weird victory lap I see people here taking. Without fail.
News: something horrible has happened in Gaza.
a bunch of people on lemmy: I was so right.
You’re reading news about people being ethnically cleansed and you’re patting yourselves on the back. What in the fuck.
The establishment US and the ownership class are all-in on this genocide. We are exactly where we would’ve been if Kamala had won. They all support Israel. The democrats just had to do some surface level finger wagging because they knew they were relying on the votes of a bunch of people who see how genocide for what it is. They were lying to you and you’re acting like Israel and the Palestinians aren’t on the same exact path they would’ve been had Kamala won.
You all are sick for taking these horrible stories as some kind of victory. The ownership class is pitting you against republicans, and you against the people who didnt vote exactly like you did in an election. And why was that? Because the people you voted for were enabling a fucking genocide.
As was said elsewhere, history won’t be kind to Biden, trump, Kamala, and Netanyahu. But it won’t be kind to the people who were looking the other way to vote for the enablers.
We were handed a shit sandwich. We all had zero good choices. So some people decided they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for enablers of genocide. That isn’t an incorrect decision. Stop fighting the people who—I mean, I’m assuming(?) you don’t support the genocide…—want to see the genocide end. Because what could you possibly be getting out of that but all these back pats you’re giving yourself?
Oh fuck off. Kamala wouldn’t have been cheering for ethnic cleansing.
If you have two choices and one is less bad, you choose the less bad one.
So that’s the difference? The fact that trump is saying it out loud?
So between a clearly labeled rat poison box, and one that says “probably not rat poison,” the right choice is the one that’s saying it’s not?
Because the genocide was in full swing when Biden was in office. They made some minor surface level pauses in specific types of bombs…and then started shipping them again. They cut the amount of weapons, and then upped it again.
I’m not saying trump is not worse. But you people are entirely missing the point if you think people who wouldn’t sign their names to a genocide are the ones in the wrong.
You all obviously missed the point further down my comment, where I said stop fighting people who want to end the genocide? Because, that’s what you want, right? If it is, you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing.
Dude just stop. I’m going to hold my tongue…
On what? On how much better you think Bidens and Harris support to Israels genocide was? I would prefer you’ve stop rationalizing genocide.
There was far more than Gaza at stake. Clown.
Oh? Well that clears them of all guilt!
Buddy, we’re all impressed that you know what Gaza is (finally).
Oh, i see, you where always a bag of air. cool cool.
Hold your tongue? This is a comment section. Say it.
I’m trying to have a nuanced discussion here. Because I think it’s important. If you think throwing insults or something (why else would you need to “hold your tongue?”) is your response, then do it.
I joined this discussion to make my point because I think we’re all (supposedly) on the same side. And I think there is good to be found in a discussion between people on the same side not seeing eye to eye at the moment. I think that driving a wedge in the anti genocide side of the fence (because this is either a pro-genocide or anti-genocide discussion…right?) is wrong. And I want people to stop doing it. And I think the reason they’re doing it is a very self-serving reason.
That’s not an attack of you all. It’s…an opinion. And, like I said, this is a comment section.
Nah I’m good, thanks.
Choice was the status quo and pushing towards a solution or palestines almost immediate erasure to violent cheers. Nothing to do with being ‘right’, about hoping yous aren’t completely cooked and see sense. Just as far gone as MAGA unfortunately.
“My candidate was the right choice and you’re wrong. You’re basically maga.”
You have to see how insane that is.
I’m not saying trump isn’t worse. I’m saying if you people cared about the genocide, you wouldn’t be trying to throw anti-genocide people under the bus. You just wouldn’t. You would be working with them toward a solution.
The other powerless people aren’t your enemy. The ownership class that is committing and profiting off this genocide is. But you all are taking aim at the underclass because it gives you a high horse to ride.
That is wrong. That’s my point. But you all just doubled down in the face of that sentiment.
Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess, right?
I’m going to throw so-called anti-genocide people under the bus because it’s very clear that most of you didn’t do dick about it and thought that being jerks to people online and not voting for certain candidates was all that was needed to be done, while I was working my ass off in emails, on the phone and in person.
And I get berated when I bring that up by so-called anti-genocide people too.
So you’re painting me with the broadest brush imaginable because you can only think in binary terms.
Because I hold the belief that not voting for Kamala Harris wasn’t the immoral choice, that must mean I’m just like everyone you’re imagining? You don’t know me, A. And B., I never said I did or didn’t vote one way or another.
I’m just so sick of this attitude I see all over lemmy. It’s the opposite of critical thought. It’s shouting “I was right” into a cave because you know you’ll hear your opinion validated and your ego stroked.
I just think if people here cared about the genocide and ending it, your position wouldn’t be so focused on you. It wouldn’t be so focused on the election that’s already over and how right you all were. When news came across your feeds about genocide and suffering, you wouldn’t frame it with your own personal choices.
Because that is essentially throwing your hands up and saying, “well, my plan didn’t work, and it didn’t work because these people.”
You all spend so much time back patting and laying blame at the feet of people who are against the genocide, that you’re driving a wedge into the anti genocide movement. Strictly for your own personal gain.
At that point, you’re not anti-genocide, you’re anti-doing a goddamn thing about it.
That is and has been my only point since I made a comment in this thread. I knew I was going to face a bunch of these types of comments, but I thought I’d be able to get my point across. And my point is that you need to take your heads out of the election and work with, not against, the working class. Because your allegiance to an ownership class representative proving you were right in your support doesn’t mean a goddamn thing when we’re talking about a fucking genocide.
That’s what I’m trying to get you all to see. Because this echo chamber here where the prevailing thought is “undecideds are the enemy!” is so incredibly self-defeating and self-serving. Self-defeating if the end to the genocide is really what you want, and self-serving because it puts you on a high horse while shedding any and all responsibility.
Changing that outlook is my entire point in this viper pit.
At that point, you’re not anti-genocide, you’re anti-doing a goddamn thing about it.
I didn’t visit any politician’s offices in the last two weeks since I’m new in the country we just fled to, but I still made sure to dedicate three hours last week to both emails and phone calls to various politicians. So I guess you’re right. I am anti-doing a goddamn thing about it.
What would you suggest I do?
Well, since this discussion is about solidarity in the anti-genocide movement, as I’ve said many times, I would suggest everyone (and, excuse me if I mislabeled you as being against my initial point, but I’m having a discussion with a bunch of people) that you all stop trying to scapegoat other people who don’t want to see a genocide happen. Do all you want personally, that’s all great. But my entire point was that you all say, “I’m the real anti-genocider! And all these people are wrong!” No matter that they want what you supposedly want.
Stop driving a wedge in the movement by high roading people who want the same thing you do. There’s a huge rash of this behavior, and that’s what I’m trying to call out. You can do all the good you want, but if you then go into the community to salt the earth behind you for all those who want what you do, you’re negating any good you’ve done.
I’m an anarchist dumbass I can just see the reality. Yous are as gone as maga. Victims of propaganda and acting against your own (and the palestines interests).
You aren’t anti-genocide. As we told you before the election, your outcome of your stance is pro genocide. And now the Palestinians have to pay the price for your stupidity.
That’s a depressingly binary outlook for an anarchist.
Are you sure you’re an anarchist? Because thinking that there was either the choice to vote for one party or “you’re brainwashed” just doesn’t exactly scream anarchist to me.
You’re overlooking my entire point to make a binary, deterministic point about only one decision being right in this scenario. You’re an anarchist telling people that f they didn’t vote for a political party complicit in a genocide, that they’re just as bad as the genocidal forces? There is legitimately no sense to be found in this.
I’m more of a Chomsky-esque anarchist myself when it comes to voting. And even I don’t see how you could make this claim. Under normal circumstances, I would be with you between trump and Kamala. But there is a fucking genocide happening, in the US’s pocket, and there were two pro genocide candidates on the ticket. Faulting the people against the genocide for the scenario being our reality, and not the people who wouldn’t break with the idea that the genocide was something to support? You’re not an anarchist, you’re a bootlicker.
You’re throwing the people who couldn’t stomach the fact that a genocide would’ve been done in their name had your candidate won under the bus? Not those who wouldn’t listen to the millions of people telling them they’re wrong and blindly kept supporting the slaughter? With historians and the world community and the activists screaming that we are witnessing a Nazi-esque ethnic cleansing, you’re not faulting the politicians who only see the opportunity for influence and government contracts?
You’re faulting…activists and peacemongers. For not voting for your candidate?
I just want to be sure I’m understanding your position here.
Don’t come at me with some binary explanation that “well the other side is worse,” I want you to do your best to shed that two party mentality to think about this in the larger picture, and then reaffirm your point for me, here.
Neo-proudhonian mutualist with a dash of agorist praxis via non-violent counter-economic ®evolution.
Changing the system by voting is not possible. The best we can do is pick the one closest aligned with our values, that will allow us to effectively organise (vs Trump turning the military on protestors/leftists), buy the Palestinians some time (vs literal cheering for ethnic clensing).
Faulting the people against the genocide for the scenario being our reality, and not the people who wouldn’t break with the idea that the genocide was something to support? You’re not an anarchist, you’re a bootlicker.
They’re statists and authoritarians—I don’t expect them to listen to reason, and I can’t change that. My criticism is directed at those who actively pushed for a worsening of the genocide by enabling that screwball to take power, rather than supporting actual anti-genocide leftists who understand that, flawed as it is, liberalism is still preferable to outright fascism. You should know better. Instead, you keep shifting between shill gambit, baseless accusations and bad-faith comparisons.
Chomsky also acknowledged pragmatic short-term engagement with existing structures (e.g., voting for the lesser evil) while aiming for long-term abolition of oppressive institutions, FYI.
In the 2016 and 2020 U.S. elections, he argued that it was morally imperative to vote for the Democratic candidate because the alternative would be worse for marginalized communities, climate policy, and global stability.
https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting
Conclusion: by dismissing a “lesser evil” electoral logic and thereby increasing the potential for Clinton’s defeat the left will undermine what should be at the core of what it claims to be attempting to achieve.
Stop framing this like this is on the people who didn’t want the genocide to happen. It’s such a weird victory lap I see people here taking. Without fail.
Our blue conservative “allies” want nothing to do with representing any of us. That’s why the way forward is pushing for electoral reform so the democrats will be forced to actually compete for our vote.
I get the feeling dems are so frail and fragile from using First-past-the-post voting as a crutch for so long that they wouldn’t be able to compete. They certainly can’t compete with the circus that is the republican party.
Fucking embarrassing.
Democrats know keeping 3rd parties from participating is a existential struggle for them. They are clearly willing to sacrifice the USA over giving up this hostage scenario.
Unelectable.
Republicans: Genocide and ethnically cleanse Palestinians
Democrats: Genocide and ethnically cleanse Palestinians
Democrat voters: It’s all the third party voters’ fault
Hey by the way, you know what would have been great? If the Democrat candidate wasn’t a corrupt psychopath who was complicit in genocide. They could have ran anyone. But they chose an actual ghoul, and as a result the Republicans won. The Democrat voters could have gone, wow, this candidate is trash and won’t win, let’s all pick someone else - anyone else, as long as they have a soul and heart still beating in their chest - that actually can win against Trump, to defeat the threat of fascism. But you guys didn’t do that either. You pounded at your keyboard for the entire past year talking shit about the only people willing to do anything different than what they’ve been doing their entire lives, to make an actual genocide stop. They lost. You lost. We all lost. The only way this could have played out in our favor was with a candidate that could draw more votes (accounting for electoral college etc.) than Trump. There wasn’t one. The Democratic party didn’t give you one, you all talked yourselves out of voting for Stein or De la Cruz or literally anyone else, and so this happened. That’s how it was destined. You’re selectively choosing one of the infinite factors that led to this outcome to bicker about. You’re just selectively choosing who you feel like you can blame, and ignoring the fact that there were millions of other people we all could have just collectively voted for, that we didn’t. There’s 50 times as many Democrats who had that option and DIDN’T exercise it. So not only did you vote for a losing candidate, but you compromised your morals while you did it.
And you know what else? We put in more research than you. That’s a fact. We learned everything about every candidate. You all gobbled up the first smear or tired ass old “lesser of two evils” trope and then just did the same fucking thing you’ve been doing your entire lives, driving over to the voting booth and filling in “all blue”, even a genocide being committed by those same people couldn’t change your habits. We, the people who actually were following what was going on, did the research and knew just how guilty those politicians were, and we COULDN’T vote for them. It’s the dumbasses who did zero research, red and blue, who keep putting them in power in the first place. That is the engine driving this empire. Not the 1% of political dissidents.
Can you not see that this system has literally weaponized your anger at it, towards the only people that OPPOSE it?
“We” are making a whole lot of assumptions about total strangers on the internet.
Option one will do a bad thing (with chance of opposing)
Option two will do a bad thing and burn your house down and remove option 1 permanently.
Option 3 is an illusion that enables option 1
OOH, I CHOOSE 3 SO I CAN BE SPECIAL AND BLAMELESS. It didn’t do a bad thing!
Your fantasy world is super neat. Your killed the real one in the process of reaching for it because you don’t understand how anything works, so much for all that “did our own research”.
trump thanks you for your vote.
I have heard your perspective before. It’s disingenuous framing and discounts all democratic power of the people to abandon parties that don’t serve them. It’s nothing but a form of trained self-subjugation for the masses that absolutely neuters any opposition to the ruling class.
It’s not.
ROFL
^ For the record, the removed comment was censored under the “misinformation” rule, for alleging a common plot between Democrats and Republican politicians to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, citing unilateral U.S. support of “Israel” since 1948, and Biden’s arming of “Israel” throughout the 2023-2025 genocide, as evidence. https://lemmy.world/modlog/2840 (“Y’all need…”). Mods on this site are flat out over the line. This site is unusable for serious political discussion.
The mods on Lemmy are not good. They help incite shouting matches at different communities for fun including ones that have the developers for Lemmy itself, let basic bait for profiling others exist because they proclaim to let the other side speak up if they wanted to after bashing them down.
They will turn around and unironically claim to be just janitors with no power while ignoring the very position of mod gives them a lead role in how discussions are held.Lemmy is just 4chan for neo liberals and the mods act like it.
For additional record. 100% of the moderation on this post was done by a singular mod. Most of it was “uncivil” (and I agree with those)… But a few dissenting opinions that were not uncivil nor provably “misinformation” were classified as such. I don’t necessarily even agree with your post, but I see nothing “misinformation” about it. I see legit concern over the system and an opinion based on observation of facts. Though I wouldn’t come to the same conclusion you did… it’s clear a certain mod is mad about it.
Mod is clearly drinking the Dem Kool-aid and is salty that you disagree with it. As clearly made obvious by the difference in responses on this thread… Top comment in the thread doesn’t get taken down… it targets and others “independents”, but your response and the other low effort meme that points out that on this specific issue dems and gop are functionally the same (in your opinions) is immediately smote.
It’s funny because I often disagree with a Dem stance… and immediately get labeled a Republican or even fascist… Which immediately shuts down 100% of any possible reasonable conversation that you could have. Same with these mods who just censor anything that remotely goes against what they believe in.
Yes, thank you. I can understand deleting like, flat-eartherism or something, but when your worldview is something you’ve really lazily assembled, and you disagree with somebody but don’t really have anything to disprove it, you belong nowhere near that delete button. I’m seriously disappointed to see this reddit mod behavior on Lemmy.
Deleted comments: https://lemmy.world/modlog/2840?page=1&userId=84324
History will not be kind to either Netanyahu, or the Biden/Trump presidencies.
This will mean fuck all the to Palestinians who became “displaced persons” just so the Israeli’s can have their own Lebensraum.
The rest of the world needs to get off its ass and ensure Gaza is rebuilt on Israel’s shekel for the Palestinians like a modern day Marshall plan. And ideally prosecute a couple of people for actively advancing genocide.
The rest of the world needs to get off its ass and ensure Gaza is rebuilt on Israel’s shekel for the Palestinians like a modern day Marshall plan. And ideally prosecute a couple of people for actively advancing genocide.
Except remember, those are America’s shekels being spent.
I mean, we should also be paying. We had an integral role in the genocide.
Well, they keep vetoing things that would help. Like calling it a genocide…
This will mean fuck all the to Palestinians who became “displaced persons” just so the Israeli’s can have their own Lebensraum.
Does Lebensraum mean to have the safety of not to get attacked by your neighbors? I’m not justifying this plan but to say that was Israel wanted this all along when they disengaged in 2005 and didn’t start the war is a bit out there
An awful lot can change in twenty years.
What has happened in the last twenty years
I’m sure the Palestinians are grateful the Democrats didn’t win.
But they didn’t promise to stop it, so voting for fascism was the only alternative!
Have more alternatives in the voting booth by passing state level electoral reform! Then people could vote for who they want and still have their vote count against the Republicans.
Who could possibly say no to having more then one chance to beat the Republicans?
Yeah, fair voting is over in the US. You can’t remove fascism at the voting booth.
What would a Democratic win have changed here? Have you already forgotten then 15 previous months where Democrats were sending Israel cash, jets, 2,000lb bombs, arms, and every other tool they needed to continue their genocide?
NO FACTS ALLOWED! ONLY HATE FOR THIRD PARTIES!
I’m half convinced that these are just bots here to drum up infighting as any post mentioning Israel seems to get flooded with these comments, and almost none of the commenters ever respond to replies.
Oh, they respond. Turns into days long flame war if you don’t just stop responding yourself. Still bots afaict though, either that or extremely confident idiots.
Do you think the “days long flame war” might not happen if you didn’t do things like call people idiots?
^ This guy IMMEDIATELY starts a flame war with someone else under the same comment. Holy fuck man.
You mean a “flame war” where I never insulted anyone?
Sounds like a pretty one-sided war.
Interesting, also, that you are defending the person who just out-and-out lied about me calling them and other people idiots.
What evidence do you have that Kamala would have opposed this idea as president? Has she released any recent statement condemning the idea? It’s actually a lot easier for her to do so now than it would have been with her as president. She’s a private citizen now; she need not fear AIPAC campaign dollars. She need not fear offending Biden. She’s not lifting a finger to condemn the idea now, when she faces zero downside in doing so. What makes you think she would have opposed it as president?
Sure, Trump is a lot more vocal in his support of ethnic cleansing than Kamala would have been. But I think Kamala would have simply looked the other way and refused to intervene if Israel attempted it. I see zero indication in her actual behavior that she would have intervened if she was currently president.
If the end result is the same I would certainly rather have non-fascist fucks in office
That’s
Why
You
Exercise
Democratic
Power
To
Get
Rid
Of
All
Of
Them
Biden literally sanctioned them just for settling, Trump reversed it.
Of course this wouldn’t have happened under Kamala. It may have dragged on for a bit, but they delayed the ceasefire until Trump got in, if he lost - they were down bad in an increasingly worsening PR situation and were somewhat tied to that. Now they don’t care, look at them. Probably launch gaza baby NFTs and pocket the profits too just for kicks.
Straight into the west bank as Adelson paid $100m for the privlege, and now celebrating an ethnic clensing. There won’t be a palestine at the end of this term.
How many people did Biden sanction? List the names.
Do you understand why we keep saying everything Biden “did to help” was symbolic and completely worthless? That he did those things while vetoing ceasefires at the UN and sending tens of billions of dollars in bombs for them to commit mass murder with? That this is the behavior of an actual psychopath who’s complicit in genocide?
The sooner you all stop running from reality, the sooner we can start fixing this.
You seem not to realise the way to "fixing this’ is through a political process and you fuckers are locked in for 4 years of a dude who doesn’t know what shame it’s.
4 years
that’s very optimistic
Fuck up you dishonest fascist enabling piece of shit. Go look it up yourself. You have picked your side, we’ll fix it without you maniacs eventually.
Don’t waste your breath, these people don’t even know what the West Bank is
Are you seriously arguing that we didn’t know what Kamala would do on this so Trump, who was very clear about it, was a better alternative?
Frankly I doubt they give a fuck, this was the outcome for them either way.
I’m sorry to disappoint you but we are unhappy with both parties. Biden is an absolute devil for allowing this genocide to unfold and providing both weapons and rhetorical and political support. Trump is an absolute devil too, the difference is that he’s absolutely unhinged and says the quiet part out loud.
I feel sorry for the domestical issues this is causing you now and the general chaos this guy creates but for us Palestinians Democrats and Republicans aren’t much different in their support for Zionism.
So…. Are both sides still the same? Asking for a friend.
Both sides aren’t exactly the same, but why don’t you want more differences?
Sides could be irrelevant of we replaced First-past-the-post voting with a more representative electoral system. The solution is more democracy, not gleefully telling people they have no choice but to vote for your preference.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
We know.
But that wasn’t the point, was it?
Yes, they’re doubling-down.
They are not the exact same. At least the right is honest regarding his genocidal intention, which will make it easier to establish responsibilities latter. Unlike the dems and their hypocrisy of pretending to care about shit while sending bombs.
Hey at least the genocide will be over! Trump is so much better than Kamala on this!
Y’all need to fucking stop with this dumb shit. We have been pointing out for two years the bipartisan political consensus on supporting this genocide and ethnic cleansing. They are working together on it. Get the fuck over it, you live under totalitarianism with a fake opposition party. This genocide started under Biden, with his support, and is continuing under Trump, with his support. It’s not “degrees of genocide”, it’s fucking genocide. They are both in on a scheme of exterminating an ethnic group and dispossessing them from their land. This plan has been underway with U.S. support not since two weeks ago, but since fucking 1948. OK?
Some of you all are just in full freakout mode these past two weeks. I’m calm as stone. Know why? Because I’ve been living with these facts for decades. All you people are seeing is the mask falling off the system. I already saw under the mask. Join the club. Get your shit together so we can actually fix this.
Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
Now, you’re wanting to play nice? Naaah. I’m calm as a stone too when I tell you that if you didn’t vote, or protested with a bullshit third party loser, you did this.
And we deserve to be angry about it.
Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
I wasn’t on Lemmy since ~late 23 until after the election. Who is “you”? It’s not me.
My specific quotes at the time looked a lot like what I just wrote. Pointing out that the power of the people is in choosing their own candidates, not being handed them by the media and party apparatuses. That the two parties are visibly cooperating on genocide and that the only meaningful course of action is for the people to overthrow them.
I’m sorry, did someone else just say this?
Get your shit together so we can actually fix this.
That not you pretending there’s a “we” here? Because again, if you voted third party, or stayed home- you are openly admitting that you know nothing about the threat we faced, about how elections actually work, and about what the word “we” means.
There is no we that I am a part of that includes you. We tried to stop this. YOU didn’t.
You didn’t try to stop shit. You watched a genocide and voted for the same people committing it, because the only thing that mattered to you was your own ass. You weaponize marginalized people to act like you’re the hero of the story, but you only care about yourself. People who care about justice and have their entire lives know damn well that the entire system needs to be replaced.
Our only chance is unity. Even if I fucking hate people like you. That’s always been the case. That’s been the only chance out of a system where even the “opposition” supports genocide for our entire lives. Whether it’s 2024, or 2028, or picking up the rubble in 2032. But you know what destroys unity? PEOPLE WHO FOLD INTO THE SYSTEM AND DESTROY OUR UNITED FRONT AGAINST OUR OPPRESSORS.
I didn’t vote for a single person that committed genocide, so stop with the false accusations and… answer this:
Did you stay home when the rest of us voted to stop trump? It’s a simple yes or no.
And you’ve no place to speak of unity when you stood against everyone that stood against trump.
No, it’s unity AGAINST mass murderers. Not unity SUPPORTING them. Even if there’s two of them and one of them is 5% worse!
And I can already hear it. “You only had two choices!” Then I reject your stupid fucking choices.
What specifically did you do to try to stop it other than rant and rave on the internet and not vote for certain people?
Jesus fuck you really think it was MSM libs that opposed you here.
Anarchist, know more than you, and it was completely evident this would happen which is objectively worse. Stop the cope.
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Well, I knew this. A pragmatic anarchist who advocates for the better option. I’m anti-fascist before I’m an anti-statist. Give me liberalism any day of the week vs what’s coming. (Thx again eejit)
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Some of you all are just in full freakout mode these past two weeks. I’m calm as stone. Know why?
Because none of Trump’s executive orders personally affect you or anyone you love. Must be nice.
Unfortunately it’s not that way for everyone. Many of us are trying to figure out how to survive the next four years without dying to a preventive illness or ending up in a concentration camp, so I’m not sorry if us “freaking out” offends you.
No, because I have decades of trauma that you people are just beginning to feel.
As I went on to explain in my comment, which for some reason you felt the need to just selectively quote and then reframe in some completely bullshit way.
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Honestly thank you for being here and writing this. The “but Kamala” comments are super hurtful to me because I remember how the Americans have been treating us ever since. My entire family is displaced from Palestine, had to abandon studies in Syria, Iraq back in the day, had to flee again from Kuwait, my friends and acquaintances together have lost hundreds of family members. We have lost family members and ongoing trauma from having lived under occupation. It’s unbearable and you can’t even do therapy because it’s still going on, you can’t get closure.
I don’t know a single Palestinian out there who hasn’t lost family or friends, or who has family or friends who moved abroad for good.
We’ve been suffering from ethnic cleansing, apartheid, collective gaslighting since 1948 and we’ve been facing violence and terror since even much longer. As if it would make a difference to us if the person who’s literally providing the means to annihilate us is saying nice words while doing the opposite? Trump is escalating our annihilation and we never doubted that, but the Gaza genocide alone has been going on for almost 1.5 years and there was no Trump.
Many people here really don’t seem to care about the actual people. The same way we aren’t human to Trump & the Zionists, I don’t feel human when Harris supporters use Palestinians to say “I told you so”.
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Oh, so now it’s “get the fuck over it”? Both sides are totally the same!
I don’t think so, bebe. You motherfuckers will NEVER be permitted to live this down. This is YOUR fault. We will make you choke on it.
Not even fucking remotely what I said.
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Fuck off idiot. Not everything is about american politics, you get that?
This article is about an American president declaring his intentions to ethnically cleanse and thus genocide the Gaza Strip. This article is very clearly about American politics.
edit: I wanted to make it clear that ethnic cleansing is inseparable from genocide.
Exactly you: https://youtu.be/GcNPymD8wlM?t=54
Ah, there is a misunderstanding here.
I’m not a fan of Biden. I didn’t even vote for him in the last election. I’d much rather be angry about the amount of weapons we are still supplying to Israel, than be on here skewering the morons who threw out the baby with the bathwater and skull fucked the country for the foreseeable future. I’m gonna do this every fucking time trump does something shitty to Palestine, because 4 fucking years is damn long time for the protest voter’s and abstainer’s goldfish mental faculties to remember what their little stunt cost everyone.
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I searched the link you posted and did not find a single mention of Kamala?
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The vice president doesn’t have the power to overrule the president in any capacity.
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Thank God there’s finally a solution
In 1940, the Nazis’ plan was to relocate all Jews to Madagascar.
Just 2 years later, they started exterminating them systematically.Yup.
They went from passing oppressive laws against Jews to turning them to ash in a frighteningly short period of time.
Fascism is 100% here and our nation is asleep at the fucking wheel.
Never been more ashamed to be an American.
Population transfers aren’t unheard of. In Greece/Turkey, Italians from eastern Adriatic, German from Prussia and Silesia, Pakistan/India millions of people moved.
This Holocaust comparison is completely dishonest and betrays any knowledge of how it happened. Used in this context, it’s Holocaust relativism at best and likely antisemitic.
Just so you know: In the India/Pakistan relocation, millions died.
Well, i have bad news… all of those were genocides
Edir: purging an etnicity from a land to gain a claim over that territory makes it sound bad enough?
Your watered down use of the word genocide is the core of the issue.
There is no mention of the word genocide in this article for starters.
They aren’t in this list of genocides either. Only the Pontic genocide is listed where 25% of Greeks in Turkey were killed.
Do you consider the forced exodus of Jews from Arab and Muslim countries after Israel’s independence a genocide?
Do you consider the forced exodus of Jews from Arab and Muslim countries after Israel’s independence a genocide?
I thought i was clear, yes i do.
So you’re not following the standard definition.
You are right
I found this quote useful so I’m going to put it here as well as it seems incredibly relevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
“How could ‘forced deportation’ ever be achieved without extreme coercion, indeed violence? How, indeed, could deportation not be forced? How could people not resist? How could it not involve the destruction of a community, of the way of life that a group has enjoyed over a period of time? How could those who deported a group not intend this destruction? In what significant way is the forcible removal of a population from their homeland different from the destruction’ of a group? If the boundary between ‘cleansing’ and genocide is unreal, why police it?”
From the same Wikipedia article.
Ethnic cleansing has been described as part of a continuum of violence whose most extreme form is genocide. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or population transfer. While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.
Your quote is just a bunch of insinuations leading questions without an answer. Pure bad faith.
Your argument’s defense of a nonexistent boundary between genocide and ethnic cleansing boils down to genocide denial. There is no agreed upon definition of ethnic cleansing. There is no way to peacefully forcefully relocate a group of people. An attempt to forcefully relocate a group of people is motivated by the desire to destroy that group in whole or in part.
The quote from the wiki article points out everything I have now written down in this comment. It’s written as a series of rhetorical questions with clear answers. Your argument’s effort to misrepresent the wiki page’s descriptive analysis of ethnic cleansing as an official definition is an attempt to police a none existent boundary. You argument left out the last part of that section.
Multiple genocide scholars have criticized distinguishing between ethnic cleansing and genocide, with Martin Shaw arguing that forced deportation necessarily results in the destruction of a group and this must be foreseen by the perpetrators.
A call for ethnic cleansing is a call for genocide. There is no way to engage in peaceful forceful deportation or population transfer. There is no meaningful difference between getting rid of a group by forcefully removing them and destroying them.
The Armenian genocide involved death marches, into the desert without food or water. What’s the meaningful difference between sending people to die in the desert and destroying them? There isn’t one.
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide
There is no meaningful difference between getting rid of a group by forcefully removing them and destroying them.
Please read that again. There’s a gigantic difference between dead or alive.
100,000 Armenians were ethnically cleansed in 2023 with less than a dozen civilian deaths. Compared that to the Armenian Genocide at the beginning of the 20th century with a million deaths.
Using the same term genocide for both is watering down the term. It betrays why it was coined in the first place.
Of course it’s still a terrible crime.
Luis Moreno Ocampo, the inaugural prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has classified the ethnic cleansing of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians as a second Armenian genocide, and opined that the inaction of the international community encouraged Azerbaijan to act with impunity.[34][35]
The number of deaths has nothing to do with it. The intent is the same, the only difference between the two genocides is that they were less successful at killing people in the second one. The only people that are helped by defending a distinction between ethnic cleansing and genocide, that does not exist, are the people who want to commit genocide.
Try and tell that to the face of someone whose whole family died in death camps.
Try and tell that to the face of someone whose whole family died in death camps.
I’m calling it, this era will be worse than the bush era when it comes to American atrocities.
What the fuuuck, the United States of America is going to own a part of the Gaza Strip. Are we restarting colonialism?!
Do you think places like Puerto Rico and American Samoa are states or colonies? Do you think they get good political representation? It never ended lol
As if Israel would let the US take what it (wrongly) considers theirs.
Yes, I’m sure this would all be very sad for Palestinians but the important thing is that Genocide Joe learned his lesson.
Accelerationism has made things worse for everyone. Now we have a US president who has declared his intention to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip of Palestinians. If you want things to get better then you have to act in a way that is useful to that end. That means voting for parties that are to the left of fascists and that have a chance of winning. In the US, that’s the Democrats.
I don’t think that legitimate elections are happening in 4 years. They’re gutting everything and installing their flunkies just as they said they would in p2025.
The last election is where democracy died.
The last election is where democracy died.
There are other countries with their own elections facing the threat of a fascist takeover. Canada has one on October 20, 2025 that could be called earlier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Canadian_federal_election
I don’t think that legitimate elections are happening in 4 years. They’re gutting everything and installing their flunkies just as they said they would in p2025.
I think that it is likely we will not get fair and free elections if any elections at all in 2026 and 2028. It’s still possible that we do. We thankfully cannot rule out fascist incompetence in general, but we can’t count on it either for specific things. Regardless if we do have elections or not, having a movement that can win elections in theory is still useful for resisting and defeating fascism.
I am afraid that the time to vote your way out of this is at an end. There is no way Republicans will willingly give up all three branches of government.
I am afraid that the time to vote your way out of this is at an end. There is no way Republicans will willingly give up all three branches of government.
Musk has control of the US Treasury Department payment system. Obviously not. Fascists don’t hold elections.
I’m trying to get people to act in their own self-interest. It may be too late for us, but someone might learn something someday. People who survive the collapse of the US and climate change might make better choices.
If we don’t tell people what went wrong here they will do it again.
Oh by all means talk about what went wrong. Recording history is vital. I’m just saying voting your way out of this won’t happen.
Also, not every country has been taken over by fascists yet.
You can’t make the survival of democracy hinge on everybody having to vote for you because else it would be getting even worse. You actually have to present an option that promises that things get better. Significantly even, since most people in the US are absolutely struggling.
As voters we had the opportunity to prevent fascism for four more years by voting for neoliberals. This would have given progressives and socialists another opportunity to co-opt the Democrat party. The failure of the Democrats to provide a compelling alternative does not mean we should be complicit in our own destruction and allow fascists to murder us.
I’m seeing a lot of voter bashing but the same Democrats in power. I get the criticism against voters. They should have voted neoliberal. But the Democrats set this vote up to fail. They just don’t seem to get any consequences for it.
They just don’t seem to get any consequences for it.
The consequences are that Democrat politicians live in a fascist dictatorship, are persecuted politically, and remembered for their incompetence. Many of them are rich enough that they will probably not feel the impacts anytime soon, it really depends how serious Trump is on the retribution.
What’s important is to care more about people than punishing the Democrats. If we are lucky enough to have future elections, we need to see the Democratic Party as a tool. edit: typo
They should have voted neoliberal.
There are more than one lesson to learn from an election. People need to learn to vote for the furthest left viable political party that they can. Democrats need to learn to adopt a populists narrative that pushes progressive and socialist ideas. Democrats are unlikely to do this until they are co-opted by progressives and socialists the way Republicans were co-opted by Trump. But delaying fascism as long as possible gives progressives and socialists more time to take control of the Democratic Party.
I think the vast majority of Democrats in House and Senate will bend the knee or just stay silent before facing persecution.
And everybody voting the furthest left viable is a flimsy strategy for fighting fascism. Many people already do that all the time, but you can’t make sure that everybody does. Also, with this there never was a chance to move the party any further left. Every election there was this myth that you have to vote moderate to change the party, but it never happened. Why should it? Moderates can say that the voters have shown they want moderate positions when they win. And when they lose for some reason they go, “Well, if you need them the most the progressives will stab you in the back. Let’s cut them out”. This is what I mean there are no consequences for Democrats, at least for the leadership that’s moderate and neoliberal. They will never move.
I think the vast majority of Democrats in House and Senate will bend the knee or just stay silent before facing persecution.
Since Trump’s inauguration, the Democrats have been ineffective so far, but they haven’t been silent. We’ll find out soon.
And everybody voting the furthest left viable is a flimsy strategy for fighting fascism.
It was the only useful, viable strategy we had.
Many people already do that all the time, but you can’t make sure that everybody does.
We can count on people to act in their own self-interest. People can organize online to spread true information. The issue was that people fell for propaganda that convinced them to act against their own interests without them realizing it.
Also, with this there never was a chance to move the party any further left. Every election there was this myth that you have to vote moderate to change the party, but it never happened. Why should it? Moderates can say that the voters have shown they want moderate positions when they win. And when they lose for some reason they go, “Well, if you need them the most the progressives will stab you in the back. Let’s cut them out”. This is what I mean there are no consequences for Democrats, at least for the leadership that’s moderate and neoliberal. They will never move.
My argument is that voting for neoliberal Democrats will only incrementally shift the party to the left. In order to make the Democrats meaningfully change from a leaning right of center organization to at least a leaning left of center organization they must be co-opted by a progressive or socialist candidate with a populist narrative. This populist narrative would ideally be a progressive and socialist agenda. Like Bernie tried to do twice. In order for someone like Bernie to do this we needed more time before a fascist takeover.
We know this strategy can work because Trump did it to the Republican party. He used a populist narrative of white christian nationalism. However, we are now out of time and relying on the idea that fascist incompetence will give us another chance.
There is no fulcrum on the political spectrum that can force Democrats to change. And if what your argument wants is a reason for Democrats to change that is not consequences but incentives. To be clear, in a democracy the only consequence for losing elections is to lose out on political power. There is no mechanism besides voting to make Democrats agree with one group of constituents. Democrats look at who voted and then chase those votes.
As long as money is in politics the incentives will always be for the Democrats to incrementally change at best. At a pace that is far to slow to fix wealth inequality or climate change. Political power has to be seized when it is up for grabs during primaries in order to see more systemic change. But in order to do that there needed to be future elections which is no longer guaranteed.
This is not a particularly helpful message for the time being since the election is past and won’t be for a while at best.
This is more a wish on what could have been and leaves little room for current discourse when this is a dead end topic.This is not a particularly helpful message for the time being since the election is past and won’t be for a while at best.
Other countries will have elections to determine if they have a fascist takeover in the next four years and beyond. Canada’s next election is October 20, 2025 but could be called sooner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Canadian_federal_election
This is more a wish on what could have been and leaves little room for current discourse when this is a dead end topic.
American accelerationists still need to learn their lessons. There was a hate crime in my home town recently against a member of the LGBTQ+ community. People in the local LGBTQ+ community went to a meeting to express their concerns directly to the police force responsible for conducting the investigation. This was an exercise in demonstrating power. The local news is talking about it and people know we will not accept intolerance.
So the election has passed in America, but many of us may find out there are opportunities to make a difference and be vocal. A person needs to understand that doing nothing isn’t useful to participate in that kind of a moment.
Accelerationism is alive and well as is demonstrated by people in this comment section. So even though we can’t change the 2024 election results, we are going to keep talking about them. If we do not, the 2026 and 2028 elections, which are not guaranteed to happen now, will look very similar. Even if there are no more elections in America there are still people who need help. They will not get that help unless people believe they need to be helping.
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Kamala was running for president. Biden dropped out. Kamala wanted to end the war.
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The vice president doesn’t have the power to overrule the president. Biden is complicit in genocide. Kamala and many in his adminstration are not.
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The vice president isn’t in charge of sending weapons to anyone. Harris was never given any such order to follow. Here is an overview of the role of the vice president:
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/what-is-the-constitutional-role-of-the-vice-president
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That means voting for parties that are to the left of fascists and that have a chance of winning. In the US, that’s the Democrats.
You’re reaching out to people too stupid to understand basic logic.
Which is why an anti-democratic felon rapist is our leader and is currently deconstructing our federal government.
You’re reaching out to people too stupid to understand basic logic.
Thankfully this problem has nothing to do with general intelligence which we don’t understand anyway. This is a problem with information and knowledge. There is a lot of false information. And people are unaware of true information. Thanks to the internet we have the opportunity to educate people we have never met to correct this.
These are people who fell for accelerationism. It’s an idea that anyone, of any political position, can fall for. It’s so tempting to think that things can get better by getting worse. Because all accelerationism asks of us is to do nothing. People will look at history and see the bad things that happened to people who tried to change things for the better, assassinations, murders, assaults, arrests and incorrectly conclude it had to get worse in order to get better. The truth is people kept working to make things better despite these set backs. People learned from their mistakes and then applied what they learned.
We need to keep reaching out to people because accelerationism is both useless and false. If we let things get worse they will continue to get worse indefinitely. People who believe in accelerationism will keep believing in accelerationism no matter how bad it gets. Unless we explain to them why accelerationism is useless and false.
Which is why an anti-democratic felon rapist is our leader and is currently deconstructing our federal government.
This has been caused primarily by the right-wing information sphere and the general capture of mainstream media by billionaires. Fox News has been brainwashing people for decades. And Q-Anon was able to get the boomers who didn’t know better to trust what they read on Facebook.
I’ve had multiple family members brainwashed by Fox News and other right-wing media. They are all competent women who held down jobs and raised families. One of them wrote code and another built furniture and metal art. Considering they are all white they would get high scores on IQ tests. It doesn’t matter how smart or competent a person is. If all the information a person consumes is fascist propaganda it’s logical to expect that person to vote for and support fascist candidates.
In fairness, this is BS. A leaked Israeli paper from early 2024 stated that that IDF and the Israeli’s government overall goal WAS to remove all people from Gaza. Once and for all, if they could get away with it. The fact they systematically destroyed whole towns and places of culture educates us and reinforces that this was the plan all along. Trump is an Israeli puppet, nothing changes there, but the removal of people and the destruction of Gaza was the Israeli plan all along. This was known.
It is THEIR land. Their home. Why should they be shipped anywhere? That is an outright crime.
Source on that leaked paper please?
I believe they’re referring to this paper.
A chilling reminder that we are currently at the “Madagascar plan” stage of the Palestinian genocide.
I’d ask protest voters if they’re feeling pretty stupid right now, but the truth is they never gave a flying fuck about Palestinians. They only cared about feeling morally superior.
Trash humans.
Americans making this about Trump vs Kamala is getting really really annoying. I mean, we get it, you are pissed off at each other. We’ve read the same arguments dozens of times already, and at this point it is getting extremely tired. It sucks the oxygen out of every conversation. Is this what the discourse is going to be around Palestine and Israel the next four years?
I don’t think these people actually care about Palestinians, it’s team sports. They care more about saying “I told ya so” than advocating for people who are suffering.
It shows how much they actually care about Palestinians if that’s the takeaway from this…
You are commenting on an article specifically about Trump
The US President, yes. You have to understand that internationally, at this point, we just see him as just that: The US President. Your elections are your internal issue and we don’t need to be expending all our energy psychoanalyzing your electoral system. As not-an-american, I don’t give a damn about how mad you are at your fellow citizens who might or might not have stayed home at election day or voted in a way that you think was stupid. Not every fucking world event needs to be understood from the perspective of the role of Jill Fucking Stein as a spoiler candidate.
EDIT: Rule number 1 says “[…] Not United States Internal News […]”. This applies to posts, but I think after a certain point, overtly brigading every fucking world event thread with the internal US perspective kind of beats the point.
You should make this comment in a thread about Israel and Palestine vs in an article about Trump. It’s not making it about Trump to discuss Trump in an article about Trump.
That said its not our fault Israel is a clusterfuck. It’s a clusterfuck because of Palestinians and Israelis. Furthermore before it was Israel it was a British territory. The US is to schizophrenic and too morally weak to rely on to save anything. Save yourself or drown.
You should make this comment in a thread about Israel and Palestine vs in an article about Trump.
If this was /c/news you’d be right and I should not bother with this kind of comment, because then it would be about looking at this from the point of view of US politics. This is /c/world news. Trump is not a candidate that won your election, Trump is the sitting US president. Like, listen, if Trudeau says something stupid about Palestine, it would be ridiculous for a bunch of Canadians to brigade the thread and make it about how strategic NDP voters spoiled the last Canadian election. You would be complaining and you’d be right. If we were to go do that over at /c/canada, we’d be right to tell you off if you complain, but here in /c/world, you’d be right.
It’s not making it about Trump to discuss Trump in an article about Trump.
I didn’t say don’t make it about Trump. I said stop whining about your last election. We don’t care any more, it’s tired, and it’s stupid and I don’t fucking want to hear about how mad you are at Jill Stein or Kamala any more. If you want to whine about other Americans, go to /c/news and knock yourself out.
That said its not our fault Israel is a clusterfuck. It’s a clusterfuck because of Palestinians and Israelis. Furthermore before it was Israel it was a British territory.
That’s where you’re wrong, yank. It is your fault. Your country has been enabling the Israelis for the last 5 decades. They would not be able to do shit if you didn’t sell hand them over the weapons you do, if you didn’t play their big brother lawyer at every single fucking UN institution, vetoing every single fucking condemnation for every single fucking crime that they do. They wouldn’t be half as brazen if you were not doing everything possible to cover their asses at every single fucking opportunity you get. The Israelis are the primary culprit here, but the US is the reason why Israel keeps acting with complete fucking immunity and overwhelming power.
(“you” == your country, not you personally)
The US is to schizophrenic and too morally weak to rely on to save anything. Save yourself or drown.
We agree on that one.
This is world news but the thread is STILL about Trump specifically. If you don’t want to talk about Trump the logical thing would be to downvote such thread so you see less of them.
Talking about Trump does not mean talking about the election. Talking about Trump is talking about the US President.
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Single-issue voters, when EVERYTHING was at stake, deserve all the hate they get, but are too stupid to understand. The worst kind of trumpers, ones that don’t think they are.
Yes, blame the voters. That will surely make them change and help win the next election for Democrats. /s
Who else would you blame when you lost a vote?
Something not directly involved?
Beep boop?
Who do you blame for climate change? The sun, chemistry or humans releasing chemicals to the atmosphere?
Arguably all 3 contribute to climate change, but only the last one is something you can change. So you blame humans, because it is the only productive option.
In an election, you can blame the party that lost or the voters. Blaming the voter is about as productive as blaming the sun, distracting from what changes have to happen in the Democratic party to guarantee a win in the next election.
It isn’t blame, it’s observation. It is also not relivent to the second part of what you said.
Yup.
I see no difference between a Trump voter and those stupid enough to vote 3rd party or abstain from voting.
They are all scum, equally.
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Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza
Trump is the president of the United States and he has declared his intentions to ethnically cleanse and thus genocide the Gaza Strip. Americans who refused to vote for Kamala Harris are part of how we got here. American accelerationism harmed Palestinians.
edit: Ethnic cleansing and genocide are inseparable. I’ve updated my comment to reflect this as Trump’s idea of a peaceful ethnic cleansing is completely and totally false.
so, are we only allowed to say ‘genocide’ when criticizing democrats? but when republicans do it “it’s not a genocide, it’s ethnic cleansing”.
Ethnic cleansing is as dirty a term its not an attempt to downplay it
It’s important that we make it clear that there is no way to do an ethnic cleansing without genocide. I’ve updated my comment.
👍
so, are we only allowed to say ‘genocide’ when criticizing democrats?
Biden is complicit in genocide.
but when republicans do it “it’s not a genocide, it’s ethnic cleansing”.
Trump did call for ethnic cleansing. It’s good people are calling him out on this, because that is what he did. The issue is that we should all be calling him out on genocide as well. There is no such thing as a peaceful ethnic cleansing. So when Trump called for ethnic cleansing it was also a call for genocide. I found this relevant quote on wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
“How could ‘forced deportation’ ever be achieved without extreme coercion, indeed violence? How, indeed, could deportation not be forced? How could people not resist? How could it not involve the destruction of a community, of the way of life that a group has enjoyed over a period of time? How could those who deported a group not intend this destruction? In what significant way is the forcible removal of a population from their homeland different from the destruction’ of a group? If the boundary between ‘cleansing’ and genocide is unreal, why police it?”
Peaceful ethnic cleansing is an oxymoron. Peace is mutually exclusive from forceful relocation.
I will update my above comment to reflect this.
Wellllll technically those who voted against Kamala to stop israeli genocide got what they wanted. Israel no longer has to genocide Palestinians.
