Donald Trump has suggested large numbers of Palestinians should leave Gaza to “just clean out” the whole strip, after ordering the US military to restart shipments of 2,000lb bombs to Israel.
The US president said he wanted Gaza residents to move to neighbouring nations, and that they could be displaced “temporarily or could be long-term”, after a phone call with Jordan’s King Abdullah on Saturday.
“I said to him: I’d love you to take on more because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it’s a mess, it’s a real mess. I’d like him to take people,” Trump said, when asked about the call.
He also suggested Egypt as a destination for Gaza residents, and said he would raise the issue with President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi on Sunday.
Protest voters looking more and more stupid by the day. And will continue to do so every day for the next 4 years minimum.
And that’s why Kamala’s stance on Palestine never bothered me.
I knew that as bad as it was, Trump would be worse.
I was right.
Gaza was fucked under either presidential option and we all knew that. Now we also get to enjoy getting fucked by Trump at home and hand the right the country. Other countries get to get bullied like Canada, Colombia, Greenland, Panama, and who knows who else and to what insane degree. Plus, Gaza will get to deal with a president that doesn’t bend to protest pressures at all and gives 0 fucks about humanitarian issues. We sure showed Biden for being an AIPAC puppet like the rest of the government. This is why the right has taken our government over. We constantly in fight and ignore realities for ideological purity while the right unites under the broad strokes of their agenda. When no option has the desired outcome, sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.
Nope, under the Democrats, there are many Representatives who would listen and put pressure on a Dem president to do the right thing. Thanks to people with a smooth brain who think BOTH SIDES SAME, they are going to find out what everyone else already knew… they were never the same.
Hey but while Im being lead into a camp a bunch leftists here can feel good knowing they did the “right” thing by not opposing fascists
Indeed, this is what I keep telling people.
There’s no happy-feel-good everyone walks away with their faerie tale sitcom ending.
The world situation is fucked, when your options are crawl through broken glass or swim across a river of piss, well it might not smell good, but at least I’m a strong swimmer and urine is allegedly sterile.
Okay I double checked, urine isn’t sterile, but it has low amounts of bacteria and isn’t going to lead to me bleeding out or needing immediate medical attention.
sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil.
Sometimes it’s better to rip the dressing off ad quick as possible.
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Uh, yeah it does. It is less bad than the only other option.
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Wonderful. Nothing like the US backing state sponsored terrorism. Not that it’s anything new…
Yes it was suggest in the 1980s and on October 13, 2023 by Biden administration. It also suggest by Trump again around 2018
Native Americans suggest Americans should leave, “Just clean out “ the whole country, allow it to be rewilded and return to how it should be.
Instead ICE has the gall to round up indigenous people.
Reeeeeeeeeally hard to stop my self from screaming “I fucking told you so” to all the idiots who insisted Trump would be better for the situation right now
This is literally the exact thing I’ve been trying to point out for months
Nobody I know thought Trump would be better for Gaza. Just that Genocide is the worst situation and it was already being ignored.
But now we get more death! Immigrants, trans people, FEMA, it’s like a Gatcha game of who else gets to suffer. We really taught them a lesson
The dem leadership knew the whole time exactly how to win the election but werent willing to pay the price in thwarting AIPAC to secure that win. All they had to do was recognize the genocide a few days before the election and follow existing laws on it, and acknowledge that many Americans are struggling. They chose to roll the dice instead.
I pointed this out to a dem apologist on bluesky and their response was that ending the genocide on its own wouldn’t have won the election.
Motherfucker, what?! Quite apart from the fact that ending a genocide shouldn’t be evaluated on how likely it is to win an election, it is the right thing to do and it would have helped.
But the dems decided that continuing the genocide was more important than improving their chances of beating Trump. Assuming they believe what we were told that Trump would be worse at the genocide, that means the dems decided to continue the genocide and also risk worse genocide. So they just chose genocide.
And now people are still trying to get up on their high horses about this shit.
“I did not pull the lever in the trolly problem and it was the dems fault”
If you’re willing to let one group be subject to genocide, then all groups are eligible. You know how it goes, “first they came for[…]”
Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?
No, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be okay with giving up one group while trying to use the rest of the groups as a shield for excusing genocide.
But… I’m not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.
What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It’s easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?
Why have to bother yourself with harm reduction when you can choose to do nothing and passively allow things to get worse? That would be asking too much.
Maybe geopolitics is more complicated than the anti-Kamala protest voters have been lead to believe…
If your “complicated” world view means justifying genocide then it’s just a justification of murder.
Who did you vote for who wasn’t justifying a genocide?
Edit: Worth noting, 17 downvotes at this time, yet not a single reply with a candidate who wasn’t “justifying a genocide”.
Oh they both were, I’m just being real about what that means.
Gotcha, so you voted for one anyway?
I did
It certainly is. Unfortunately for all of us, it’s more complicated than the Dems and “lesser of two evil” voters (of which I was one) have been lead to believe as well.
Or they would have… you know… Won.
But hey, if we want to learn the wrong lesson from this again, far be it from me to stop us.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576
The plan was always their. They would get away with it even if it was biden or harris would won
It was Israel’s plan yes, not official us policy like now.
What would you make think biden or harris would have blocked such a plan?
Because they already were. Only siths and maga deal in absolutes. Which are you?
They never was. Every time the US say to Israel to not do something Israel does it and then the US give them more bomb and aids and diplomatic protection.
The copium is thinking that Biden,harris and trump wouldn’t try to outcompete each other is supporting Isrsel
Can we keep this cringe Funkopop liberalism on Reddit please.
It’s called objectivity sweetie and I’m an anarchist ✌️
you shouldnt start calling people “sweetie” or this devolves into a slapfight.
That what you want? To shut conversation down? And for an “anarchist” you sure are bending over to DNC corporatist hierarchy. Little bit suspicious.
Maybe he is someone who saw this last loss coming and sees further losses coming unless the dems can start doing the right thing again and adopting an actual effing platform that people will vote for. Remember doing the right thing? When did you abandon the idea of pressuring our leaders to do the right thing?
Because it’s the cowards way out at the expense of the Palestinians. Doubt there’ll be much left by next cycle
Oh?
So you’re ready to disavow Bidens support for zionists and agree that it was and is wrong, and that we cant support anyone who does that anymore?Welcome to the new democratic party, brother. Grab a shovel, theres a lot of corrupt DNC trash to haul to the curb for garbage collection.
You think Joe Biden who said that he was a fervent Zionist and that nobody in US history been more of an ally to Israel than him, and Kamala Harris who basically said she’d do everything he would have done, we’re going to reign in Israel? Good Lord man there’s a difference between optimism and naivete and you have crossed it.
And yet, it got much worse almost instantly. Weird that.
Is there a difference?
Actually, yes. For the Palestinians anyway.
Few people argued for Trump being better. Biden bombed Gaza to rubble. Trump comes in and does the paperwork. Biden is not absolved.
Biden didn’t bomb Gaza genius.
I must have imagined those American bombs dropped by American made planes being sent by Biden.
He asked Netanyahu nicely to not carpet bomb Gaza with them. That absolves him of it all.
I must have missed the part where Biden was put in charge of Israel’s military. You .ml folks are simpletons. 🙄
Come on, don’t act like you don’t know what he mean. He just mean thst Biden he is responsible by giving arms and diplomatic protection so Israel can bomb gaza
I know what he means and he’s wrong and so are you. Israel bombed Gaza. Full stop. Biden never had the power to stop it. Want to be angry at someone, choose the military industrial complex at the heart of America’s economy. The president only works for them, no matter his name or party.
Yeah he have no power at all to the point of bypassing the congress to give melitary aid to israel.
If Israel relies on US weapons, then yes the US has the power to stop it, by not supplying the weapons.
We know the weapons are going to be used for genocide. Supplying them is as good as pulling the trigger ourselves.
Is Trump in charge of Israel’s military now because that’s the only way for your comment to make any sense.
No Netanyahu is n charge of Israel’s military. That is my point.
Cranakis,
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/13/us-presidents-red-lines-israel
Eisenhauer, GHW Bush, and Reagan all stopped Israel’s zionist violence dead cold with phone calls, in pretty much this exact same situation. Its well established history that you either aren’t aware of or wont acknowledge-- neither possibility reflecting well on you.
The US is in charge of Netanyahu.
When I was younger I played Skyrim, it seemed very unrealistic that NPCs though the wind shot them with an arrow, but seeing you I think they had quite good AI actually
“Hur durr, I gottem.”
In no way shape or form am I defending Biden here. His position was indefensible.
Trump is worse for saying the quiet part out loud, but the actions by all administrations since the establishment of israel show that this plan by israel is being followed regardless of what the president says out loud.
Why didn’t you have an issue with it at any point in the past 15 months?
I did. I still do. What’s your point?
You sure? It sure seems like your first thought here is “how can I rub this in the faces of those i feel like blaming for this” judging by your comment. You seem to want to retroactively remove Biden and Harris’ culpability in bringing us to this point.
He secured a ceasefire, which is more than Biden could do. But ultimately, is he better? I don’t think so. I’m not sure he’s any worse, either. I wish we had better options.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
Note that the ceasefire is literally identical to the one the US Department of State proposed the better part of a year ago. The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more. This falls in the same category as Nixon when when he pulled a very similar ploy with Vietnam.
He did not secure a ceasefire.
The ceasefire was enacted now, and not before, for reasons of political timing, nothing more.
Wait…so, who’s responsible for the ceasefire? If it was Biden, why did he choose to do it after Trump got elected? What kind of “political timing” is that?
I feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding and missing the point of what I’m saying
It’s not intentional.
If it was enacted now because of Trump, then he is the reason it passed.
Ergo he secured it.
He may be a piece of shit with nothing material to add, but his endorsement did move this ceasefire forwards.
Hur dur genius nostradamus here.
Nobody who watched genocide joe support genocide for over a year had any hope for 2025 and beyond.
They can still argue that situation is better now but it depends upon a very specific meaning of “better” that doesn’t consider the Palestinian people’s welfare at all.
Saying, “I told you so” has zero effect. This people didn’t reason themselves into their positions and will refuse any reason that would cause them to change their minds.
It was clear months ago these were smart people. Their utter lack of doubt continues to be the reddest of flags.
Good point; The message may be undercut by the grammar. Effect is a noun/adjective. Affect is a verb/adverb.
Disregard if you were actually trying to state that the concept of the number zero goes out and affects people in some unspecified way whenever that statement is spoken.
How would Kamala have been better for Palestine?
Here are my thoughts:
- Israel has been committing genocide in Gaza since day 1, they just pick up the pace sometimes
- Every US president this century has enabled this
- Biden and Harris were all on board with the current round of fast genocide and they should be remembered for it
- Trump pretends to be anti-war but emboldened this shit by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem in 2018 or 19
- Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, as evidenced by meeting him during the campaign last year
- Any ceasefire supposedly happening right now is entirely to give Trump good press. He’s going to give Israel even more support for their imperialist bullshit than Biden did and Harris would have
- Because Trump won, the federal government is going after immigrants, nonwhite people, LGBT people, etc, and is going to further tear the good parts of the government down
I’m pretty disillusioned with the Democrats between the imperialism and almost completely giving in to the fascist takeover, but I wouldn’t be looking to get out of the country if Harris had won, so thanks for that if you could have voted and didn’t.
edit: I voted Uncommitted in the primary, helped out at my local Gaza camp, and have gone to rallies and distributed books about Palestine, so I’m not just sitting here at my computer saying all this
Exactly. Why can’t people vote for the lesser evil in the short term and push for change after the election too. There was no scenario where the protest vote didn’t give us a far worse option. As bad as Biden was on Gaza, he capitulated more than Trump ever will. Plus, one issue voting is just an insane mindset in a winner take all electoral system like America.
I saw a take a few months ago that voting third party isn’t voting your conscience, voting your conscience is going against what you really want to do, to do what will actually result in the least harm happening. Our system of government is absolute trash but until it changes (and we should all be pushing for it to change) this is what we’ve got.
Why can’t people vote for the lesser evil in the short term and push for change after the election too.
They did that in 2020 and the lesser evil told them to go fuck themselves, policy-wise.
almost completely giving in to the fascist takeover
Did you see the pictures of Kamala and Mike Johnson smiling as they watched the vote count on January 6?
“Clean out”, what a wording. So they no longer have any problem saying they support genocide.
Just some light ethnic cleaning.
Clean out a particular ethnicity. Ethnic cleansing is the goal, genocide is a mean.
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
I really hope you’re happy that your conscience is clean now the guy who’s main spokesman said Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’ and who himself declared it ‘could be better than Monaco’, clearly with an eye towards beachfront real estate, has the power to make that happen for his own gain.
This was entirely predictable, and we told you this would happen. Trump told you so himself. The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch, but Kamala absolutely wasn’t looking at the situation as to how she could personally profit through real estate development if the Palestinians were just wiped off the map as quickly as possible. Trump likely had the choicest property mapped out, with property developers already submitting proposals.
If you abstained because of both-sides re Israel, fuck you. You at best were played and at worst helped to play others, and now we ALL get to suffer.
The dems weren’t perfect by any stretch
Totally.
Enthusiastically helping Israel stack bodies for four years was definitely imperfect.
Of everything I said, that’s the part you decided to focus on?
e: not that trump had said he’d glass the region to build hotels?
I could not care less about what Trump says.
I heard Biden, for four years, wring his hands publicly and pretend to give a shit, all while giving WMD’s to Israel every single time they demanded it, in full knowledge they were bombing hospitals, schools and kids.
What I care about is what’s actually being done, and in the short-term, Trump’s actions are improving the situation. I’m sure his reasons for this are some form of self-enrichment, and I doubt that it will last, but that remains to be seen. Right now, things are better than they were a few weeks ago for the people in Gaza.
Biden allowed the genocide to continue literally to his last day in office, despite all the soaring speeches and public statements he made about peace.
You’re right! If both options are bad, then we SHOULD let the worse one win!
Hurray!
You don’t have any objective facts you can point to here to demonstrate that Trump is worse than Biden, and in the short-term, Trump is substantially better. The genocide continued literally up to the last day of Biden’s presidency.
That’s the point. Calling the Democrats ‘imperfect’ on Israel isn’t just wrong, it’s vulgarly and sickeningly euphemistic.
Great fucking job, bothsiders. Now you get Genocide++.
Sound like you still haven’t acknowledged the ongoing genocide or understand what is going on in gaza. There’s no such thing as genocide or genocide++ the same way there’s no holocaust or holocaust++. People who chose not to support any scum with blood on their hands have no guilt, they did the correct thing. Assuming you supported the red and blue parties you have more guilt than everyone else, you gave your vote to murderers. Instead of telling you to go fuck off like you did i’m going encourage you to document yourself on what’s going on in gaza and how governments worldwide are allowing it to happen.
The genocide in Ukraine and everything that happens to minorities in the US is your fault if you didn’t vote Harris.
Sitting on the sideline with your thumb up your ass wasn’t going to somehow give us Mr. Rogers as president.
The genocide in Ukraine and everything that happens to minorities in the US is your fault if you didn’t vote Harris.
Think with your own head. People didn’t got their rights and freedom by supporting the lesser evil ruler. If the choice is between two murderers the correct thing to do is to be against them.
Genocide and Genocide++, if you admit those are the two major parties in the US then why do you blame people like me who voted third party?
Because it’s an effective vote for Genocide++
There’s a chance that Trump can terminally weaken the US. He can’t wage a war on the entire world. The Democrats were focused on destroying the Middle East. The Republicans are less focused and more chaotic.
And why can’t they wage war on the world? What are we gonna do about?
And seems Trump is laser focused on erasing Palestine and giving his donors everything they promised.
600-900 aid trucks are entering Gaza every day and the bombs have stopped falling.
Trump talks shit a lot, but until he actually does something the situation now is far better than it was under Biden.
You’re kidding, right? You think that aid is because of trump, when you’re responding in an article that says his stated motives are the opposite of that?
Much of that aid was already secured before he took office. Shit takes time – especially in a war zone. Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues. The US has been giving aid to many places that will continue for a short while until the new policies filter through.
Listen to what the new moron-in-chief says, and notice that some policies take a bit of time to take effect. Like the US economy, for instance. Large systems don’t turn on a dime.
Wait a month or so and get back to me on whether aid from the US continues.
Palestinians can get aid from elsewhere. They have rich neighbors. We just need the aid trucks to get in and now they are.
I certainly hope so.
They could have gotten that aid in any time they wanted. It doesn’t just take time, it takes political will. The trucks were already there and the aid was all ready to go, they just had to be let in the border by the Zionist entity. They needed a ceasefire.
I’ll definitely be watching what happens over the next weeks and months, but how about we actually do that instead of catastrophize every time the moron in chief says something stupid that he can’t enforce? Forcing Egypt and Jordan to take 1.5-2 million refugees is about as likely as Trump actually annexing Greenland. This shit isn’t happening.
The fascists have done an incredible job lulling people into a false sense of security with “Trump just says outrageous things to trigger the libs he’ll never actually do anything”.
All this finger wagging because people criticized democrats sending billions in weapons which were used in the genocide? Somehow it’s protestors fault in this scenario.
The degree to which you bend over backwards to support the legitimacy of a system where BOTH SIDES of the two-party system fully support israel is astonishing. You speak of others getting played, yet here you are getting played into thinking you can make a difference in a government that has fully supported israel since its establishment regardless of who is in power.
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do better than this?
Read THE SHOCK DOCTRINE. It was always gonna be this.
Congrats leftists! You solved Palestine! We just won’t have one!
The number of people trying to argue that not voting was legitmate is baffling.
In most states, there was at least one anti-genocide candidate on the ballot.
How many were there?
Seems odd to blame leftists instead of the people supporting, supplying, and carrying out the genocide.
Correct they’re not really leftists. Tankies who consumed too much Zionist and Russian propaganda.
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You can say murder. Or assassinate. Or kill. Man up.
Apparently he could not.
As leftists like to say to justify their one-sided attacks against Democrats: “Republicans are going to Republican”.
Leftists know this and still decided to do all they can to make sure they give the reins of power to Republicans yet again to “punish” Democrats when all their privileged white asses are doing is punishing lgbtq, poc, and now Palestinians despite their use of their issue to justify not voting Democrat.
But no war but class war right?
If you want to enter a house, do you use the door or the brick wall? In this scenario, the republicans are the brick wall and the democrats are the door. In theory, the door is more willing to allow entrance. How you’re framing this is that using the door is an attack on the door. This is the same attitude conservatives use when people critique the US where they’ll respond with “America: love it or leave it”.
As for punishing minorities, I’d take democrats more seriously about their claims of standing up for minorities if they weren’t so quick to ignore them or throw them under the bus. It was Palestinians and others in Arab communities who were driving the uncommitted movement. It was a movement that simply asked that people mark uncommitted during the primaries where Biden was running practically unopposed. This is the lightest of resistance ever, did not threaten the presidential election, and clearly delivered the message that people were displeased with Biden. What did democrats do in response? Screamed at the minorities and preemptively blamed them for sowing division and continued pushing Biden until his debate performance made it apparent to even party diehards that Biden was not going to win. However, the party diehards still wanted to continue his policies, so they saddled Harris with the burden of continuing his garbage policies. Democrats simply did not listen to voter concerns during the election.
You’re saying that Palestinians are “now” being punished, but this only shows your ignorance of over a year of intensified genocide and the decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing Palestinians have had to endure with the support of both US parties. It’s less that Palestinians are “now” being punished and more like democrats are blaming everyone but themselves like they always do, even though they had the power to make a difference. Curiously, they did not use that power. I would be interested in your explanation for why democrats chose not to.
The leftists couldn’t defeat Trump, and neither could you. What’s your point?
Yes because under Biden the thing was thriving… America lesser evil political system is making you so braindead it is crazy
So is your solution to give the country to the right and hope for revolution? Super cool for all the people here and abroad who have to suffer under revved up American fascism, including Gaza. Counting on that very slow train maybe pulling into the station seems like a solid plan.
I’m just saying blaming the voter for not voting instead of the political offer or the people in power and system is braindead
No, it’s brain dead to think you can oppose a corrupt entrenched power structure by taking your ball and going home. Elections alone won’t fix shit. Sitting them out to let in MAGA fascism definitely isn’t going to do it. Change takes decades, but if you give power to the people who will oppress harder and more readily, you are just ensuring more people get hurt in the process. The democrats at least bow to pressure some. Trump wants to shoot protestors and made sure to appoint people down with that. So yeah, I’m blaming really naive voters along with blaming our corrupt system not offering better options. Hate to tell you, but life is more nuanced than straight good and evil.
You’re blaming voter for not voting one for one of the political parties that is precisely the corrupt entrenched power structure you are mentionning … Then stating election don’t fix shit but still blaming ppl for not voting for Democrat ?
Fuck that. You don’t get to blame the DNC or Biden or Harris for a choice that YOU made. Every single person who was eligible to vote this election was alive to see Trump’s last term. The vast majority had the ability to read Project 2025. If you didn’t know exactly what not voting was going to get us, that’s your fault.
I didn’t make any choice I’m French lol. I’m just explaining to you how it works, you can keep blaming ppl for not voting rather than politics for not having actual program that make people vote for them. That way you make sure to not hold politics accountable after all they can do whatever they want and do nothing as long as the guy in front of them say worse shit. Just look where you went until now
My solution is to break from both corporate parties and vote Green.
Holy Mother of Displaced Blame…
What was biden/kamala gonna do better?
They weren’t going to put immigrants in camps. I as a gay man didn’t have to worry about the sane had Harris won.
But at least some Marxists have a sense of moral superiority
Are you kidding me? You don’t see Democrats all over this thread throwing their moral superiority in our faces?
The democrats at least voted for the candidate that was not promoting fascism. Those that withheld their votes to retain a sense of moral purity have a role in Trump’s victory that those who voted against Trump do not share.
I don’t owe Democrats my vote. They have to earn it. Apparently, those voters did not think that Harris deserved their votes.
Now, I do think that you should vote in every election. There were multiple candidates from alternative parties that were against the genocide. If those candidates had gotten the votes instead, that could’ve really made a difference.
Ok so this is what Im talking about when I say that “at least when Im being taken to a death-camp you can tell yourself you did the thing that agreed with your morals”
And this is why so many leftists are not actual allies of the LGBTQIA+ community because when their idealism is faced with reality they choose to sacrifice the vulnerable populations for their idealism.
What did trump do better?
He did exactly the same as I would expect from Biden or kamala. Disrespect for Palestinians is bipartisan this past election had no bearing on the issue
Biden or Harris would have suggested ethnic cleansing as a solution? Fucking hell .ml users are just as deluded as MAGAts.
They didn’t endorse it. They just supported it. Hell, Biden even bypassed Congress multiple times to send even more weapons.
Biden/Harris have been supplying and defending ethnic cleansing for 15 months
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It was going to be a longer, more drawn-out genocide. Which is hardly an improvement.
Every single spared life, every single stab at a better life would have been an improvement
Biden/Harris wouldn’t have spared any lives, they’ve been shipping bombs non-stop to extinguish palestinian life for 15 months
From what I gather, you’re making the insinuation that the people who refused to vote for Kamala due to her (and Biden’s) support of Israel are responsible for Trump and his heavy-handed approach.
I’d retort by stating that Israel has killed near 100k Palestinians and reduced most of the territory to rubble all while Biden’s administration had been sending bombs, guns, tanks, missiles, and money.
The main difference between Trump and Biden on this issue is how loud and open they are about it.
Is there a difference between discretely supporting apartheid or openly supporting apartheid? Probably, in an intellectual sense. But what difference does it make to the tens of thousands of Gazan widows?
I guess it’s time for all the “protest voters” to either admit they never gave a shit about Palestine or admit they fell for Russian propaganda.
Of course that’s if they remember about Palestine. A shiny red ball might have rolled past and distracted them.
@generalemergency,
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?Do your posts like this one make you feel better about yourself? Thats why you’re posting isnt it. You told yourself you ‘held your nose’ while voting but you didnt really hold your nose at all. You were happy to drop every semblence of basic human morality and dignity in order to win-- and then you lost anyway.. Now you’re angry at those on your own side who didnt shit their own bed and roll around in it like you did.
To win at all in the future and reclaim the demographic losses, the dems need to admit that what was done in Plaestine was wrong. They need to admit Biden and Harris both were not doing their job and not representing the working class, but were simply chasing corporate and special interest campaign dollars. If the party can do that it might survive. Otherwise its probably dead, becuase No one thinks the democrats stand for anything, and the rage evident at the elites related to Luigi’s prosecution is increasingly the response toward out of touch dem leaders. No one supports corporatists so get your shit together.
It’s funny you think there will be legitimate elections in 4 years. I mean Republicans are already pushing ways to give Trump a third term. So like, congrats on having Gaza screwed even harder while simultaneously throwing away any semblance of democracy?
At least the corporate corrupt Dems gave a small window for changing things democratically while not screwing over Trans people in the USA as well.
By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail, not prevented any evil from occuring.
By abstaining you allowed the greater evil to prevail
I’m heartened to hear that you at least understand that Biden/Harris was evil. Its a good start.
Actual leftists KNEW that already. Kamala, Biden, the majority of the DNC - they’re all corrupt corporatists.
But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage. And with the corporatists, there was still a small chance of gaining some control from them peacefully via elections, if simply because more left leaning people can at least run under the Democrat moniker.
With the fascists, that opportunity is gone. By allowing them to win, not only do you worsen the genocide occuring in Israel (if not ensured Israel from achieving it entirely), but also just got killed a bunch of other people and hurt a huge amount of minorities in the USA as well.
Not voting didn’t stop the genocide and never would have, but it did guarantee that it gets worse while hurting other innocents outside of Palestine as well. If you didn’t vote for Kamala (which literally means “horrible” in Finnish), you’re a dumbass, because you allowed a greater evil to prevail. Especially since I know many of y’all abstainers are still paying taxes anyway and funding the genocides either way.
But the situation the USA was in was one of minimizing overall damage
thats logical in a narrow scoping, but I think its reasonable to also consider the longer term effects of the ‘left’ party in the US continuing a track of far right wing actions over time and how that changes the Democratic party and likely destroys it. No one will vote for republican-lite or fascist lite-- those platforms always lose. The DNC doesn’t understand that. Maybe occasionally a Dem leader goes off the rails and can be disavowed later, sure, but if the party stays evil for long enough, that option of disavowing the evildoers’ mistakes goes away and sticks to all dems. The voter losses across all demographics in the last elections show we are at the point of losing the voters and with that our ability to win in the future. For now its still an option to disavow and explicitly reject Biden/Harris’s actions, if we find the stones to throw the old pro-evil anti-lower and anti-middle class leadership out on their ass and admit they were wrong.
Sure the war crimes were destined to happen with either party after the election-- and I’d argue with similar severity. Both parties will let the zionists do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want. Both parties will also fund the zionists with weapons and money, and will run interference in the UN. But I’d rather they be done by the US republicans which gives us at least a chance to rescue the US Dems, which was badly in need of rescue. Rescue means disempowering the bad actors, which is now completed. Without a dethroning of centrism that evil direction was immutable due to the way funding steers political action in the US. So the dems had to lose the election to pure evil or face political dissolution as evil lite in the short-middle time frame. Yes, the cost is dire in terms of Trump being much worse with internal policy. The prognosis for the US is possibly fatal… We are on life support as a country of laws and as an entity on the world stage with global reserve currency dominance.
Before the election, both parties seemed inevitably doomed-- it was simply of whether it was in the very short term or in the short-medium term. Now the Dems might conceivably disavow their mistakes and correct themselves, after a trip to the woodshed for what we all should agree is a beating of the neolibs that needs to occur if we are to move forward.
Either way we have a lot to answer for as a people who perpetuate this political reality, which affects the world quite a bit. The concept of collective responsibility exists, even if Americans seldom talk about it or understand it.
Well, at least you can whine about how other people voted, and that’ll make you feel better, I guess.
Nah, but I can live with knowing I at least tried to stop literal Nazis from gaining absolute power.
Can you say the same?
Do you think Musk wouldn’t pay Democrat to get what he wanted? He literally manage to get his wealth while 2 Democrat presidents held office.
I believe he just change teams because it was expected after Biden left the race.
I do believe he knew before it is official that Biden would drop and Trump assassination attempt and moment was clear that he will get the same votes as before so he diced to get favor early.
Some timeline:
Trump assassination attempt was on July 13, 2024
Public Musk endorsement was on the same day.
Biden left the race on July 21, 2024
I do believe that while he might not be publicly a Nazi he will get what he need throughout Democrat president based on his history.
That you still say he’s not publicly a Nazi says everything.
While worded clumsily, I believe they were trying to say “had a Democrat become president, he would continue ‘hiding his power level’”
Dnc centrists who wouldnt let any possible supporters of Palestinians into the democratic party convention are the real unsung heros here, right?
The guy you’re responding to never said that. You’ve discredited your entire comment in the first sentence and there’s no reason to even bother reading the rest of whatever you wrote.
My dood, it is a two party system. Both parties sucked shit when it came to this issue, and the DNC lost votes due to this fact (as one side seems to like some genocide anyway). This issue across both awful parties is implied in the first post and is countered in the “discredited” comment, you know with the whole “held your nose” line. Guess you did not read that far…
You don’t have to agree with the statement, but if you read that “discredited” comment you would see both of you; Know the worse party of the two won, and more importantly one of you seems to have an idea on how not to have the same thing happen again.
My dood, when he opens with a flat out lie about what the guy he’s responding to said, I’m not going to bother reading the rest of it. I thought that I made that pretty clear. So trying to have a discussion about the rest of what he had to say isn’t going to be very productive.
Yes, it’s a two party system and both sucked on this issue. But one sucks a whole fucking lot more on it and also sucks on literally every other issue there is. And I’m not going to coddle a bunch of people who can’t see that.
My dood, I am telling you they did not open with a flat out lie about the comment they are replying to. They are making a point you don’t like, sure! But no where was there a lie about what people said, just inferences made.
Like cool, you dislike what was said, but spending more time defending your stance of not reading then just reading and downvoting is wild and silly.
You were so worried looking at bed A you didn’t think you’d be forced into bed B
Watching you comment, I despair that dems didnt learn a damned thing from this election loss.
And what lesson would that be? Because I’ve seen that line of thinking parroted a suspicious amount lately and I’ve seen one person actually explain what they mean.
So enlighten me.
And what lesson would that be?
I’ll humor you, although I’m surprised you’ve not heard this yet:
What Dem leadership should have learned:
- Have to get back to operating from a platform, not vibes or cult of personality.
- No more genocide. Get back to leading from principle rather than realpolitik. Explicitely ditch the far right zionists-- we can make money elsewhere, and we are not a far right party.
- Be the party of the people. Lower and middle class votes are needed to win. Get back to expanding social programs.
- Stop insulting people. We don’t “go high when they go low”, we kick their ass wherever they are, but we don’t insult voters, and we also dont self-censor for comity’s sake.
- To move fwd and reunite the coalition that is the Dem party, we have to acknowledge that the party hasnt been doing what the people want, and was also engaging in a genocide. No more weasel words around that. Lets get it over with.
- Act like the party is a coalition, not a centrally controlled imperium. Stop kicking the left in the face.
- Dont look for votes form the right.
- Dont lionize bipartisanship as a goal unto itself.
- Create metrics for success and be accountable for them.
- Publish a long term plan for the party, and candidates who wont adhere to it shouldnt be in the party.
- Kick out the right wingers. When we get Bidens/Manchins/Liebermans not towing the line, remove them from their committees and dont fund their re-elections. No dems should be against the platform like Biden did for ~40 years being anti abortion. He should have been kicked to the curb decades ago.
- No more “seniority” in congressional leadership appointments. Go by merit and votes of the constituents.
- term limits for leadership appointments.
- A code of ethics. For starters, dems shouldnt ever be trading stocks the legislate on. It soils the image of the whole party when individuals are corrupt, and that needs to stop. Pelosi needs to go for her decades of insider trading. That never should have been permitted.
- Set a mandatory retirement age for Dems. 70 sounds reasonable. If you are a judge you leave after 70 as soon as a dem administration can appoint your successor. No more waiting for death/incapacity and hurting your party when you go out that way. Lets get these people thinking of the party over their own arrogance. It took everyone way too lont to admit Biden was not fit to run again. That was BS. Party members should have been able to question his competence earlier.
- No more telling states they cant vote in the primary like the dnc did with new hampshire.
- no more shenanigans during primaries like Hillary did with Bernie… They should be fair votes. No more effing superdelegates.
- no more locking constituents out of the convention. The DNC doesnt get to censure voters requests. Those corrupt sons of bitches need to admit they work for us.
It’s time for people to understand that the blue and red party in america are the same shit and voting someone else or not supporting the government is the only way to make a change.
Voting for one of the clowns that got <1,000,000 votes isn’t going to accomplish anything.
Then don’t support the government and think about another solution.
I wonder if 1M other people just like you are saying that.
Even an extra million split between the greens, libertarians, socialist workers, etc isn’t significant compared to the 70+million that the Democrats and Republicans each get.
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By your comment, should we assume you’re the ones who thought that a known racist and islamophobe with ties with Israel would be the best option for Palestinians?
Well, Palestine won’t exist in the next election cycle. What lies will you trust next?
I guess some people aren’t ready to admit their mistakes.
The irony of you losers high handing people. You lot lost this last election.
Who do you think you are? You’re right down here in the mud with the rest of us. The party brand is in absolute tatters and trust in it has never been lower. Heck of a job. And then you try to lecture people? Its absurd.
If you voted for genocide…that was a mistake.
I didn’t vote for genocide. What did you do?
One of two people was going to win this election and unless you voted for the other one, you helped elect Trump.
Yes we get it, you just made sure the literal Nazis got power and gave Israel the means to 100% Speedrun the genocide.
What was Biden or Kamala gonna do that woulda been better than this?
Presumably the same stuff they did for the last year?
Supplying the munitions for a genocidal carpet bombing campaign? That’s better?
Oh so an actual genocide. Curious.
Continued genocide. As advertised.
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Do you believe what was happening up until now was not genocide? Because if you don’t then calling this an actual genocide makes it seem like you do.
Nonono, it’s only genocide if it comes from Republicans. Otherwise, it’s just sparkling ethnic cleansing.
Now with U.S.-approved ethnic cleansing.
Implying it wasn’t already one?
Hey you’re cool with the current regime and like genocide! What’s it like being a genocide apologist?Edit: Taking potshots at people who I agree with and don’t deserve it is bad form.
In what way is saying it was already ethic cleansing and a genocide makes me a genocide apologist???
You know what? You’re right, I’m sorry. Taking out my frustrations with the current regime on the wrong target.
It’s okay. Completely understand. (and there’s actually someone in the comments who should take that advice)
It’s like those fairy tales Zionists try to convince you about that every belief system should seek their own nation. It’s easy to come up with free land when you have zero value for the people living on it.
Where do you send illegal immigrants if their country of origin no longer exists?
There was a movie about a guy stuck in an airport, I think it was called Die Hard 2.
‘He’s in the wrong place, for a long time.’
Oh, now this asshole is all for other countries taking in displaced migrants.
No, he doesn’t actually want any other countries to take them in. They should just leave their own country… He’d prefer that they simply walk into the Dead Sea so he doesn’t have to think about them anymore.
Oh no, he just wants them to leave, not to go to another country. They don’t live in reality.
Yeah, this is likely the truth; the guy can’t think two moves in advance on anything.
