I was perplexed by the question. What’s the difference? They explained: “Should I tiptoe and watch my manners around you or be blunt? Flirtatious or chill? Brag about my sexual conquests or talk about our feelings? When you’re sad, do I hug you and buy you ice cream or do we go grab some beers? Should I wonder if we’ll ever hook up?”

I’m not sure if I’m more appalled or confused by this mindset. I thought everyone treated their friends the same regardless of their gender identity. Is this just a fringe case of toxic masculinity, or is this really how the average cis person sees the world?

  • KitOPEnglish
    12·
    6 days ago

    What if it’s obvious from the get-go that a romance isn’t possible, like if you’re friends with a married woman? Do you then treat her the same as your bros, or is there still a difference?

    • Letstakealook@lemm.eeEnglish
      30·
      6 days ago

      There are differences regardless of whether there is romantic potential. I will talk about things with other men that I wouldn’t with women for many reasons. Social relationships are complex and gender does play a role in interactions, even if people aren’t consciously aware of them.

      • dandelionEnglish
        15·
        6 days ago

        yes, the way gender plays a role is often unconscious - this is an important point

      • KitOPEnglish
        4·
        6 days ago

        This is a new concept to me. What sort of things do you talk about with one gender but not the other, and why?

        • Letstakealook@lemm.eeEnglish
          13·
          6 days ago

          There are exceptions, of course, but generally I don’t speak with women regarding my sexual health (or sex in general), most of my mental health, or things specific to men. For the most part, they wouldn’t want to discuss these things with me either or wouldn’t have the experience to relate to it.

    • dandelionEnglish
      20·
      6 days ago

      Definitely still a difference, courting is just one of many examples of the way gender informs social dynamics. Being married doesn’t stop a straight man from finding someone attractive or not, for example, but being a man would prevent attraction.

      Not everyone is exactly the same in how they go about navigating the social reality, but yes, gender heavily influences the way people will treat you.

      For example, before I transitioned I was perceived as a man and it wasn’t unusual for me to hold doors open for anyone. Now that I am seen as a women in society, men won’t let me hold doors open for them. It’s extremely unusual for women to hold a door open for a man in my society (I’m in the southeastern U.S.), and trying to do so violates the social norms because of my gender.

      • KitOPEnglish
        16·
        6 days ago

        Thanks for the rundown. I’m starting to question if I’m just such a hardcore feminist that I don’t see gender the same as others, or if I really should have had the autism screening that my doctor recommended. Clearly there’s something different in the way my eyes see society and interactions.

        • RozaŭtunoEnglish
          14·
          6 days ago

          Take the test if you can, either way you learn something about yourself.

          • KitOPEnglish
            8·
            6 days ago

            Reaching out to my insurance now to find the path forward

        • dandelionEnglish
          9·
          6 days ago

          As someone who would identify as a hardcore feminist and who has been told they’re on the spectrum countless times, I feel you, lol.

          I admit my understanding of the whole gender thing is a bit analytical (and I encourage other voices to correct me).

          When I was closeted and before I admitted to myself I was trans, my views probably would have been described as gender abolitionist. Honestly gender was so painful for me that I felt gender itself was the problem (and there are plenty of examples of the harm from gender norms to get lost rationalizing this way). Of course now, looking back, I was clearly suffering from gender dysphoria and I found ways to rationalize never alleviating those feelings - I developed a disdain for femininity (femmephobia) and called it feminism, for example.

          Julia Serano’s books really helped me work through these issues early in transition, maybe they would help you too? Especially you might find Sexed Up helpful as that is more about the way society genders people and how that sets up expectations. Not just helpful from a trans and feminist perspective, but also from that outsider / autistic perspective, where it helps to have an explicit map explaining the implicit social norms everyone else lives by.

          EDIT: by the way, autism/ADHD and gender dysphoria have a high rate of coincidence:

          the G allele in STS is associated with reduced enzyme levels; this has been noted mostly in studies of ADHD (41), a condition with fivefold increased incidence of gender dysphoria (42), suggesting a possible overlap in etiology.

          from this article

          And that increase with ADHD is also true for people on the autism spectrum:

          participants with ASD [autism spectrum disorder] were 7.59 times more likely to express gender variance; participants with ADHD were 6.64 times more likely to express gender variance

          from (42)

          So don’t be surprised, being trans, that you might have some neurodivergent traits too!

    • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
      17·
      6 days ago

      A person being married doesn’t make romance impossible, just unethical. Therefore, caution to avoid behaviors that could be misconstrued as flirting is still important.