Sometimes, the best thing they can do is to not say anything. Walz could have said nothing, and pretty well nobody would have been upset about it.
Politicians have to say a lot of things whether they mean them or not.
I like ex-New York Mayor Ed Koch’s take on voting. “If you agree with me 51% of the time, vote for me. If you agree with me 100% of the time, see a psychiatrist.”
Politicians do NOT have to run a dishonest campaign. They just can’t help themselves. Inb4 the obligatory BoTh SiDeS comment.
We do really seem to be selecting for it based on who wins tho
The winner always lies to get in. The fucked up thing is that the loser does too
no campaigning or politicking here, just pure statesman. his words are absolutely appropriate and expected from a government leader.
Which is part of the problem. This whole expectation that our leaders should hide their true feelings and motivations behind a veil of niceties only serves their goals of hiding such things from the people trying to figure out who to vote for. We should know who our politicians are as actual people, since it’s the person they are in private that will motivate their actions within the government, not the nice face they put on for the public.
As I understand it, that is a large part of Trump’s success with certain groups.
Admittedly, that turns off people who don’t agree with what you’re saying…
Does he comment on every death? If not, then he shouldn’t say anything here either.
United “Healthcare” is headquartered in Minnesota, and for high profile deaths relevant to the state, yeah he kinda does.
Wait until he hears about all the people who have died after getting denied by them.
In that case, I wonder just how much “United” “Healthcare” has put in his coffers.
I’m almost certain it’s not zero, I think I saw an article about that a few years ago. UHC, like a lot of companies, throws some money at every viable major politician in the state. That’s where we’re at with how fucked up US politics is.
Apparently they knew eachother personally…
In response to the killing, public officials including Minnesota governor and former Democratic vice president nominee Tim Walz and Senator Amy Klobuchar, expressed dismay and offered condolences to the family. Walz said that he knew Thompson.[26]
It says on the wikipedia page.
Ah yes, the actual original meaning of politically correct.
His words were awful and defending a mass murderer that has killed at least tens of thousands of Americans just during his tenure because their boss decided to cheap out is beyond disgusting for a political candidate, much less someone in office that wants to remain in office with all their body parts still attached.
Agreed, I think that he should have said nothing or perhaps bring out the point that beyond how people may or may not feel we should not aim to live In a society that privilege vigilante that take justice in there hand as it can quickly slip into a very bad place… I see people suggesting a purge… I would recommend those people go out and meet some of the victims of the Rwandan genocide and see how they feel with there so called brave words…
It’s easy to spout such things using social media because we are anonymous but we do not want such violence to reproduce itself… This is how collateral damage happens. In Montreal an 11 year old child died because of a car bomb that was set by the Rock Machines as retaliation against the Hells Angel’s… No one won that day, we only lost a fraction of our soul as a society when we had to bury a child.
This is the problem, this time someone did a clean shot, what if the killer choses bombs and causes collateral damage. Will any of you sacrifice your children for this so called justice?
Funny how the politicians and the media react with horror, but the entire rest of the Internet has an entirely different reaction. I wonder why.
i find it’s always helpful to follow the money in these situations. obviously we were all paid off by Big Woke. we’re financially invested in these institutions being seen as murderous. obviously.
Careful not everyone gets the 😉.
this one passed the vibe check fortunately but u right, made a joke about class consciousness and it didn’t ring well
Class consciousness
idk what that is but sounds an awful lot like the term “woke” … blocked
beautiful downvotes
my sense of satire is too powerful for yall
Don’t be a Schrödinger’s Douchebag… Poe’s Law is still a thing, the comment you made, I’ve heard many times unironically/unsatirically.
Can’t hear tone in text, remember that. Next time, use the tone indicators, they’re there for a reason. No matter how obvious it may be to you, to most of us, you’re still a stranger.
the comment you are responding to is my tone tag after seeing i pushed the line and looking at the votes it has successfully corrected the record. also idgaf what you think of me really
Tone indicators take the fun out of it for me. I’ll risk the downvotes (like my most recent comment).
As opposed to whatever sort of douchebag you’re being?
yo chill, not necessary
It’s lemmy. Nothing we do here is necessary. And most of it isn’t valuable in any remarkable way.
Please don’t make a comment talking about your downvotes, it does not make people like you more.
why do you think i care
A person died, murdered in cold blood. That person had people that loved him. Politicians need to be respectful. Would you prefer they celebrated the execution of mass murderers on death row?
It’s a horrendous thing. To see a person killed before their time when they didn’t have to die. Just like what happens to thousands of Americans each year who are denied coverage. If we’re actually honest with ourselves, the only reason this one is seen as a tragedy by politicians and CEOs is that there was no profit to be had in it.
edit: spelling
John Brown Did Nothing Wrong
The CEO got shot just two days after the anniversary of John Brown’s execution. I’m sure JB smiled upon this assassin from the afterlife.
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That’s not a great comparison, because no mass murderer on death row has ever come close to the level of deaths this CEO is responsible for.
Yes but saying the mass murderers death is a terrible loss to society is kind of silly, no?
Who said that? I’m talking about the human, not the employee. We’re also talking about an official political statement, not public discourse.
He had a family. Seriously. Politicians publicly telling his children, “We’re all happy your dad is dead because of his career choice!” just doesn’t resonate with me.
I’m talking about the human, not the employee.
They’re one in the same, he had power, he could have changed things. He MADE the decisions he did, he CHOSE to pump up those denial numbers and profits at the expense of human life. Nobody is forced to be a CEO.
Fuck. Him.
That’s a one-dimensional reduction of a human being. I’m sorry, but I’m just not that closed-minded.
Imagine defending a sociopath and then having the utter gall to claim the moral high ground.
Tim Walz is a sociopath? He’s who I’m defending. I didn’t write a single nice thing about the CEO, only that his death likely devastated his family and politicians should be respectful for the sake of his loved ones.
Oh. So you mean exactly how insurance company CEOs and their boards do? Every. Single. Day.
They sure won’t care about reducing you to a one-dimensional number on an excel spreadsheet.
You haven’t actually suggested any way in which the guy’s work and behaviour could be viewed “three-dimensionally”. While I can agree that discourse especially online slips into dehumanisation of (real or imagined) enemies too easily… this is really not a case where this is the incorrect approach.
Edit: Regarding the guy’s family, I can agree that they did not deserve the death of the father/husband. But that does not really concern the guy by himself, his own moral character, it’s someone else’s problem. When a criminal gets sent to jail or executed, does anyone really give a crap about how much his family will suffer from that? Not really, the criminal is assumed to be a morally independent being that can tell right from wrong by himself, and his failure to do that is his own.
I agree, It is really sad for the family of this guy, and I feel bad for them.
That being said, I feel WORSE for the millions of families who have lost a family member due to this CEOs sociopathic decisions.
I think you put it really well with the criminal comparison. This CEO was a criminal, just one that was above the law of the US, who was never going to be brought to justice for his crimes in any other way.
There are many stories of people being confronted with the fact that their beloved grandfather or uncle or whoever had been a nazi who killed hundreds of people in the holocaust. Should we soften the discussion of that evil to protect the feeling of their descendants? This man’s children should live with the fact that every comfort they have in life was purchased with the blood and tears of people their father considered worthless.
Hitler had children
Who said that?
Tim waltz just did
I’m talking about the human, not the employee.
They are one and the same. We aren’t talking about a guy making minimum wage putting down puppies here. He had a networth of 40 million, he could have retired 10 years ago. He choose to keep bringing about suffering on millions out of greed.
I wasnt expecting Tim Waltz to start posting memes about it but a simple “Violence has no place in our society but there are clear problems in our Healthcare system that must be fixed” would have been much better. Thoughts and prayers to a modern day nazi prison guard isn’t the way to go imo.
Poor people get murdered all the time. It’s not what they said, it’s that they chose to say something at all.
Politicians and media celebrate killings or Arab leaders all the time…
Not a person, a CEO. Big difference.
Define what “cold blood” means to you. To me it sounds like you mean the assassin didn’t have a motive, and seeing as this CEO directly profited from denying people live saving healthcare, there’s a pretty fucking big motivation.
Cold blood usually just means as opposed to “hot blood”, that is, in the heat of the moment. People say it as if it makes it particularly bad, but really, it’s almost a synonym for “premeditated”.
Maybe because people on the internet are mostly anonymous?
edit = someone pointed out that many people post their actual names, so I added “mostly”
… you say under a post with their full legal name on display
Gork is their name?
Yes, I am the Original Gork. All others are pretenders.
Do you and Mork keep in touch?
Only in the sense that we’re both from the planet Ork.
The actual post. The picture. The OP. Original picture. That one. Not the one your talking about. The one in the picture.
Funny how the politicians and the media react with horror, but the entire rest of the Internet has an entirely different reaction. I wonder why.
Posted anonymously by someone calling themselves ‘Gork’
The thing I responded to.
If it means that much to you I’ll edit it to ‘mostly anonymous.’
That’s not what I nor the person you were talking to ment. We are talking about the person in the picture who put their whole name on the exact thing your talking about. Are you really going to try and pretend you understood that and replied appropriately?
How do you know what I meant?
I replied to Gork’s post because Gork posted anonymously.
I find this amusing, so I’ll keep responding.
Yes.
or maybe because they are working class instead of a sheltered Ivy League graduate elite
During the campaign I’ve seen Walz described as down-to-earth, approachable and attractive to the working class voter base.
Fucking yikes.
at the same time tho, this is legitimately the worst thing i’ve seen/heard about him. i wouldn’t be surprised if he was currently being groomed for a presidential run fucken 4 years from now.
if that’s the case they are clearly grooming him to lose again.
It’s all they know
Well, if they don’t lose, then they have to worry about making it look like they’re doing stuff to improve the lives of Americans. It’s so much work, doing your damn job.
I mean, it’s one thing for random citizens like us to celebrate this, but a prominent politicians acting like that would be highly inappropriate honestly.
Coulda said nothing.
True, yeah
Read the room, Tim.
Loss? What loss, Tim? Besides the families that have been torn apart and sickened over the years by this man and his board of ghouls? I see none.
Here ya go! | || || |_
:.|:;miscarriage
😂
Whether or not this is accurate about Tim Walz, it is accurate to say politicians, elected and appointed officials regard the ownership class as peers and vice versa.
This is also true regarding the upper management of news agencies, which figures in liberal or left-wing news sources that won’t go far enough left to jeopardize a status quo in which the agency and its owners thrive. And yet, they will underestimate the right wing and its willingness to let the leopards eat their faces once they are in power. The recent nods to the Trump transition by WaPo and the Los Angeles Times will not save either agency from Trump’s wrath against press once he is in power.
The Democratic Party is far right, just slightly more left-wing than the Republican party, and they are still beholden to the ownership class when it comes to campaign contributions, which is how we don’t have four-day work weeks, universal healthcare, social safety nets or any of the features that most developed nations enjoy, because it’s plutocrats that decide what our elected officials are allowed to do, not the public.
It’s also why communist and socialist are bad words, even though that means the only thing else you can be is a monarchist which is about as anti-American as one can get (at least if you believe the preamble to the Constitution of the United States). We’ve literally been indoctrinated against public-serving government.
But then it’s time to ask, what is the point of recognizing or serving the state at all if it isn’t to serve the public?
Along those lines, monarchist is bad, too. The wealthy in the U.S. are notoriously touchy about being called aristocracy, and I maintain that it’s because nobility not only punctures the meritocracy myth, but also carries with it the idea of noblesse oblige. They don’t want any obligations to the peasants. (Won’t be lauded as a great philanthropist for the dribs and drabs they give to charity, if it’s expected!)
Yes, but they’re not satisfied with one-party autocracy, but are at this point looking to pass it along to their next of kin, even when they’re not fit for rule, leading to the Joffrey / Nero / John of England problems that arise with monarchy.
The name Heritage Foundation spills the whole plot. They want to allow their kids to inherit their legacy and secure an extremely stratified society.
Socialism is not immune to monarchist or capitalist takeover, and the Democrats are not far right in this backwards ass country. They’re the big tent of liberalism, which is right wing, but not as right wing as I wish it was. It’s a distortion to believe that this country will democratically choose socialism. They’re too invested in selfishness for egalitarianism.
Socialism and Communism are, as per other political ideologies, only simple models by which to base construction what will ultimately be a complex system in order to preserve the values of the society (such as egalitarianism, liberty and mutualism) ( as per 1789 ).
None of these things are to be used just as an ideology we worship, since doing so doesn’t actually make it so. Look at how the US worships freedom even as it tries to lock out trans rights and women’s rights, and has a justice system that is stratified to favor the wealthy, and to incarcerate the marginalized. You can praise and chant an ideology all you want, and never actually see its virtues in action.
Just as democracy has (huge, egregious) issues that can be subverted (and are) and need to be addressed before the powerful exploit them to retain and increase power, so it is for other models of social conduct like socialism and communism. They’re a starting point.
And frankly, the world has only started to veer away from models of dictatorship and bonded servitude, and are still trying to do the same thing just with extra steps with different names, hence how a gross amount of the US lives in precarity and the poverty line is lowered so that those above the poverty line still live in squalor (just slightly shinier squalor).
It’s up to us to turn the notion of socialism or communism into examples that work. And there have been examples. The Black Pathers were anarcho-communist, though they suffered mass-assassinations by FBI. The Zapatista Army of National Liberation in Mexico is also anarcho-communist, and still at large, if quiet right now (no actions have been taken by either side for a while).
The US is going through a phase where it has to change, and currently the path of least resistance is towards a grisly death, first through mass purges, then through obligatory war, at which point we’re going to look an awful lot like Germany after the Soviets take Berlin. You are now a part of the resistance, presently unorganized, to prevent this fate. In the meantime, if we don’t create a new public serving order, we will be here again.
(And then we have the climate crisis and the plastic crisis to address, both of which are running out of time. Stupid ice zombies)
It will take a lot of work, but I think the younger generations are ripe for becoming comfortable with socialism. A big part of that work will be providing essential services that the government does not.
We could probably build a network of doctors that provide effective medical care outside of the corporate healthcare system. Basically an NGO model that operates without state licenses. It would be an independent verification system that takes the role of the state in establishing trust. The biggest opportunities lie in mental health, and healthcare that’s banned for political reasons.
One of the biggest problems that will only get worse in the future is addiction. As unhappiness increases, so does substance use, so helping people with those issues will be essential. It’s one of the things that hurt the Black Panthers the most. This is a dire need that must be considered a top priority.
We can have an AA model of accountability and support, but another important part of addiction is finding reasons to live. We need to help people become comfortable with themselves, and motivated to brave our terrible world. Socialism can offer answers and a cause, something that’s a major part of where people go after recovery.
We need to work in conjunction with religion, not against it. There really is so much demand for mental support that we won’t even really be competing. In fact, liberation theology works well with socialism, so having religious allies is essential.
We could also do basic checkups and help people navigate the healthcare system for issues that require a specialist. Simply having an advocate can save a person’s life.
This endeavor will cost a lot, so we’ll need to have some people who work for wages to support the work of the healthcare providers. We can facilitate sharing of housing and other necessities amongst each other. Society is crumbling, and while terrorizing the wealthy can be helpful, this sort of work will be the true backbone of the movement.
That’s where the permanent revolution would help. The workers must not allow splitting the revolution into stages of concessions and compromises but fight until total victory and the dissolution of the state.
Also this is the reason why communists are not pacifists — the working class has the right and a duty to defend itself and it’s gains. That’s what Marx meant when he wrote that under no pretense must workers be disarmed.
Not a fan of “permanent revolution,” as it has a habit of becoming the new establishment, but you’re correct about not conceding or disarming. That’s the bed that the right wingers kindly made for us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Deny, Defend, Depose
We need bumper stickers of this.
Any clue why it said depose instead of defend?
There have been rumors that the guy got 4 bullets engraved: delay, deny, defend, depose. But only 3 have been recovered. Or that 4 were recovered but news outlets reported incorrectly.
All rumors.
As it was said on Some More News. The democrats should harness the hatred towards the rich elites instead of playing into Trump’s anti-immigrant game.
no! we need to become transphobic!
(satire)
That’s not how political parties work, though. Political parties are largely ideological institutions, they exist first and foremost not to win elections but to propagate an ideology, and winning the election is just a sign that they succeeded in their goal of convincing people of their ideology, and so now enough people agree that it can take root in the state. When political parties lose, it’s very rare that they will interpret their loss as “we need to abandon all our values to match the opinion polls.” No, they interpret their loss as meaning they failed in their goal of convincing people of their values, and thus should change their strategy of their out-reach, not changing their whole ideological position.
Democrats going against the rich elites would be an abandonment of their party’s values and everything they stand for. In most countries, if you dislike the ideology of a party, you vote for someone else. The party itself has no obligation to change its entire ideology for you, such a thing very rarely occurs. If that was the case, then every political party would all have the exact same position, just all copy/pastes of whatever the opinion polls say.
I keep seeing all this bizarre rhetoric about how if the Democrats were “smart” they would just abandon their whole party’s platform and adopt some other platform, but this makes zero sense, because you have to consider motivation. Their motivation is not to just win the election, but to convince you of their ideology, and abandoning their ideology does not achieve this. Democrats are not stupid, they just don’t have the same motivations as you. Yes, they want to win, but they ultimately want to win on their platform, not on someone else’s platform.
That’s how political parties work. They have a platform, and the platform is paramount. If a green party adopted all pro-coal and pro-oil lobby positions just to win an election, that would not be a “smart” decision for them, because, even if it leads to their victory, it still is an abandonment of their ideology. Democrats are unabashedly a pro-rich elite party, it should not be smart for them to become anti-elite, because it is not aligned with their motivations.
the billionaire surveillance guy wants us all to start wearing glasses that record everything.
that is to protect the billionaire surveillance guy not to protect the rest of us just like cops wearing body cams is not to protect non-cops. they would even build in a way to remotely disable the bodycams if they could.
surprise surprise.
that said seeing United Health’s stock drop more than 25% since open this morning does feel like xmas. I’m all in on them losing money and status and access to protection. but without them having to live in the fear that the rest of us have for decades is a bit of a … i don’t have a word for that.
I made a large collection of screenshots from Facebook of people who had their claims denied by United Healthcare today.
Yes, we know.
Sorry I’m not trying to be an attention getting asshole. I just really think people should see this.
remember when everyone thought this guy was gonna secretly turn bernie-bro the Kamala campaign into being good
If anybody ever believed that, they were a fool. Kamala’s campaign promises were to tax the rich and legalize weed, Tim Walz from a deeply conservative district was the moderate to balance her out.
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Idk why you made it gendered but ok
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I mean, it’s all there in your comment? Girl boss is about as gendered a term as you can get. Obviously you didn’t invent it.
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I have never heard or seen in all the election coverage Harris supporters calling themselves that. Nor do you need to get snarky when someone calls you out for maybe being a little flurmy, even if you didn’t mean to be. The bear, indeed.
The K Hive?
No.
He was a best a signal Kamala was going to be a departure from Biden. There were a few weeks where that seemed to be the case too.
Democrats never saw a billionaire or war they didn’t love.
Bourgeois parties support bourgeois fat cats? Nihil novi. A proletarian mass party must be built urgently. Revolutionary Communists of America do a lot of laudable effort in that direction.
google translates from latin
so true!
You can’t get elected in the USA if your party calls itself Communist.
Yes that’s why the rotten system of choosing a slave master every few years, of the duopoly of parties which are equally complicit in war crimes and are on the payslip of big business must be replaced with bottom-up system of lively democracy within worker, student and tenant councils
And nobody ever sees or hears from them.
The next time someone says “we gotta get behind the Dem nominee to stop ______” HUNT THEM DOWN AND BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THEM ON NATIONAL TELEVISION
Genuinely confused by the responses here. Like what do you want him to say? Because no politician is going to come out and say “Yay Assassinations”.
Jesus Christ no wonder American is is the dam shape it’s in because of bullshit like this. The political IQ of a four year old
Option 1: say nothing. A lot of politicians did this.
Option 2: be vague. We saw a lot of this BS during the pandemic to somewhat appear like you care. “We are in trying times.”
Option 3: not include the “a terrible loss for the business and health care communities”. So he is rubbing shoulders.
That’s 3 options right there. Am I’m not even a political strategist.
Personally, if I were in the position, I’d say something like: “It is a tragedy that a murder happened. No one should ever feel like murder is the only chance at justice.” Maybe expand on it a bit and add a link to a bill proposed to either fix the justice system to not favor the rich, a bill that forces health insurance companies to do a better job and not be as greedy, or, even better, a bill that provides Medicare for all.
Like what do you want him to say?
Nothing. Nothing would be perfectly acceptable. See: https://lemmy.cafe/post/10402549/8792150
Edit: Also, a mitigating alternative I would accept would at the very least not laud the “business and healthcare community.”
I want him to bring up jury nullification. I want him to randomly list countries with no extradition treaty. I want him to post the names and addresses of more health insurance CEOs.
I thought these M O T H E R F U C K E R S were supposed to be “representatives”.
yeah that’s a bit wild and out there but i appreciate you letting us know lol
Like what do you want him to say?
He didn’t need to say jack shit.
I want him to say nothing.
Jesus Christ no wonder American is is the dam shape it’s in because of bullshit like this. The political IQ of a four year old
And the effect of media bubbles. Including self-selected ones, not just algorithm driven bubbles.
The plurality of voters this last election voted for greed and selfishness as celebrated norms. Over a third of voters said they didn’t care. Of the remainder, a significant percentage of them are obsessed with civility and the proper way of doing things.
Laughing about capitalist cunts getting their just desserts is funny, but not as popular in touch-grassville as it is on Lemmy, and public figures have to deal with that fact
Yes, the pundits are saying DISCLAIMER: Shooting is bad. Murder is bad before they talk about how the healthcare service executive really had it coming.
And that’s coming from the liberals, not us radical left pinko-commies who have Bolshevik choruses back us up when we talk.
touch-grassville
I love that lmao. Gonna make an effort to use that one.
Worst part is, touch-grassvile itself is still fucking absurd. They’re out there touching the grass and blaming their heavy breathing on grass allergies, while us shut-ins are noting the coal plant two miles upwind of the town that’s caused a drastic uptick in asthma attacks.
But the vast majority of people are normals who are out there fucking with the grass and asspatting each other for being so in-touch with their surroundings, and we have to deal with that.
Something along the lines of “Murder is wrong but also this man’s policies at his company led to a third of people’s claims being denied and 22 billion dollars just last year being taken as profit off people actively having their healthcare denied and maybe, just maybe, we should do something about that.”
So close to being a empathetic human while not being a corporate shill.
