Bruhhhhhhh why the fuck couldnt you say that like 1 or 2 months ago? Why last minute?
In her defense she did say that a couple of times:
But then at times she also said they wont be supporting arms embargo on Israel. Still orders of magnitude better than a lunatic who says he is a actively supporting Israel on doing whatever they want to do:
The fact that some people equate these two candidates based on their Gaza politics is insane.
The only people i kinda get are those with families there. But at the same time my family still voted for the shitty opposition instead of the even shittier leading party when i still lived in hungary even tho their views on trans rights was, lets say, not perfect. This of course mattered because trans rights are the first dominoes and i have a trans family member. So yeah the better option is still better than absolute chaos. Idk why this is so hard to get.
She will do that by giving Israel more money. Soon Palestinians will be all genocided. Then the war will stop; because there will be no one else to fight against.
trump will do that because there’s no way kamala wins at this point
And I am a prince from Nigeria who will give you money if you send me your information
I’m sure Netanyahu also wants it to end right after he gets his sadistic goals.
As of mid 2024 the lowest estimate I found was >7000 Palestinian children dead, as compared to a highest estimate of <100 Israeli children dead. Any child dead is too many but it shows that this is not a war, it’s a slaughter.
I voted for Harris because any alternative is asinine, but we should expect that the arms shipments to Israel will continue unless we pressure our politicians.
Biden sure said a lot of things, but how much did he actually do?
Presidents are not kings. Congress is still required for much of the government to function and Republicans are determined to dismantle it instead so it benefits only the rich and corporations.
The supreme court disagrees
The same Supreme Court that struck down many things Biden tried to do without Congress?
Do you mean the ones beholden to Trump, or are we talking about different Supreme Courts?
Kind of a day late dollar short scenario
I mean I already voted for Harris because I don’t wanna die in a Trump Brand Concentration Camp, but, she really couldn’t have said this any fucking sooner?
Good thing no Palestinians have been turned to ash in that time
She isn’t personally doing the genocide, so it’s not like she can stop it. All she can do is call for it to end.
Did she call for the USA to stop sending arms to Israel or at minimum set some red lines
Nope, she repeatedly called for a cease fire and two state solution instead.
Wow the protesters were dumber than I thought
She had to wait until the day before the election so that AIPAC doesn’t have enough time to ratfuck her for it.
Unfortunately, that’s how things work here if you’re critical of Israel in any way.
Instead the majority of people who oppose genocide have seen how she has continued to pledge her support. They have seen how children, women and men have been blown to shreds and burned alive with weapons the Biden-Harris administration has sent.
This reeks more of a desperate attempt to peddle to voters now that she realizes genocide is indeed a red line for some voters
I really don’t want you people to have to find out the hard way just how fucking stupid all of this anti-Harris shit is so close to the election.
Because that would mean that millions of Palestinians would be killed when the current genocide is turned up to 11 after President Trump gives Netanyahu a blank check. I really don’t want that. Stop trying to get Trump elected please.
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I’m not voting for Israel, I’m voting against the guy who is trying to prevent a ceasefire.
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That’s because ending weapons shipments is something we can objectively do, and should do.
It’s not like the president can just say “I declare a ceasefire between Israel and Palestine” and it magically happen. All we can do is advocate for it.
Harris has been clear in her commitment to doing whatever it takes to reach a ceasefire. Trump has been having multiple calls a week with Netanyahu trying to prevent a ceasefire.
There are only three options in this election:
- Harris: Support of a ceasefire.
- Trump: Support of genocide.
- Anything else: You don’t give a shit.
Not to mention the fact that a Trump win would be catastrophic to climate action. The actual number of lives on the line here is in the hundreds of millions. Anyone who can’t decide to vote for Harris just simply cannot be trusted. They are not our allies, and we should remember who they are long after this election is over, regardless of who wins.
With AMOC collapse happening actively, she is probably our last hope. We don’t have more time to “protest” vote or whatever. We need her now.
8 billion people and all megafauna and megaflora and pretty much everything in the ocean is relying on this election. Gaza is sad, but those people will die to horrific climate change anyway if Trump is elected.
We demanded for almost a year that the Democrats need to stop supporting genocide. Instead Biden, Harris and the other party elites would rather hand the US to Trump than to stop more Arabs being murdered. Maybe she proves us wrong and actually puts Israel in check. But everything action so far has been the opposite of that.
Answer one simple question: Do you honestly believe Trump will be better for Palestinians?
I believe the US is a white supremacist empire, founded on a settler colonial genocide, which is part of why it now supports another settler colonial genocide.
There will be no change to that in the current political system. It requires a fundamental political change, probably revolution, but certainly the dismantling of the current political parties to change that.
Maybe Trump will speed up the genocide of Palestinians, but the Democrats are equally committed to it, as they have thrown away every chance to end it, while taking every chance to perpetuate it.
So your floor here is “throw gas on the fire”. Got it. You admit at best he’ll be the same, and you’re advocating for it. Your stance doesn’t seem sane for someone who wants less pain and suffering.
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Didn’t answer the question. The choice is binary at this point. You can support the one person who’s actually said they’ll try and stop it, or you can throw your support in the trash and help the opposition that’s said “Finish the problem” when referring to the people of Palestine.
Trump Brand Concentration Camp is very apt. It succinctly expresses that the whole thing exists only for his personal monetary gain and he’s escalating to extremes for his grift.
I don’t know. Election day is tomorrow (Technically today as I’m typing). For sure late, but maybe not too late.
Most states have early voting
Yeah, but most votes don’t happen early. She’s also said this before. It’s not the first time.
Trump would do the same thing but in his case it means letting Bibi level Gaza and then buying some land to build a tacky resort on it.
It won him some Muslim voters though. Yesterday, I saw one interviewed on TV, paraphrasing: “He withdrew troops from Afghanistan, started no wars and promised to end the war in Gaza.”
Is it stupid? Yes. Is it what a potentially tipping demographics thinks? Yes.
Source:
Yeah stopping the slaughter is better than completing it.
We’re not in a vacuum. Two things can be true. She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose power, work to end the genocide, and find a two-state solution - that is, if Hamas and Bibi will allow it, which they won’t.
This binary all-or-nothing, zero sum bs is just toxic and ignorant.
She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose
I’m not invested in the Likud Party losing if the war continues to expand and drag on.
The issue isn’t with her “pro-Israel” policy, it’s with her “pro-Genocide” policy. That’s what’s driving the protests.
it’s with her “pro-Genocide” policy
What pro-genocide policy? Name one Kamala Harris, pro-genocide policy.
Because it seems to me that she just stated that her goal is to end the genocide. Seems like a pretty counterintuitive way to be “pro-genocide”…
And if you knew anything about politics in Israel, then you would 100% be invested in the Likud Party losing.
Sending weapons to the army committing the genocide is a very clear endorsement of it. Judge politicians by their actions, not by their promises.
And not only was sending those weapons a clear endorsement of the genocide, it is illegal by US law. The whole administration and majority of congress should be under investigation and in jail.
And who is the current President of the United States?
Is it Kamala Harris? No?
So my question stands: one “pro-genocide policy”
Who is current vice-president?
Her entire campaign was based on the fact that she is the continuation of Biden. Having proper primaries after Biden dropped out was argued against, saying she is already on the ticket. Her team is largely Bidens team. Distancing her from the administration she currently serves in and saying she is the continuation of that doesn’t work.
Frankly if she was opposed to genocide the only decent thing would have been to resign from her position in the current administration. You cannot be against genocide while serving a genocidal president.
Then stop serving Trump. You can’t be against any of the things he stands for, including genocide, if you’re trying to swing this election in his favor.
And that’s the rub. Is she really ‘pro genocide’? That is the question
“Hey, i have murdered some 40.000 people, most women and children. Can you send me more weapons?”
“Well sure, here ya go. Need any more troops deployed with it, so no one in the region can try to stop you?”
More clear of an endorsement isn’t possible aside from going there personally to murder the women and children herself.
But the question remains, will things be better, worse, or the same under Trump?
Like it or not, at this stage of the game there are effectively two candidates. To paraphrase South Park, you can vote for the douche bag or the turd sandwich. Neither is a very good option but one is certainly worse than the other if you’re paying any attention at all. Abstaining from voting for Harris in a swing state is tantamount to a half vote for Trump.
So sure, continue letting everyone know what the current administration is doing wrong. I’m all for valid criticism of our government. Post facts, link sources, and post ways that people can voice their displeasure to their elected officials.
Trying to sway votes away from Harris is not the answer. Because again, like it or not, the shitty choice that we’ve been handed in this scenario is bad or worse. Please stop advocating for worse.
Left-wing accelerationists will always vote for the worse result, because they’re convinced the only route to the world they want requires burning society down. That Queer and PoC communities will be exterminated in the process is of no concern to them, because they don’t actually care about real human outcomes, they just want their fantasy Communist society to emerge from the ashes of fascism’s cremated victims.
They literally think that letting Fascism win and destroy society will open the door to a communist revolution. At best they are stupid, at worst they are malicious and explicitly want Fascism. Regardless, they are enemies of progress, friends to Fascists and Christian Nationalists, and have no problem throwing marginalized people to the wolves in a bid to accomplish nothing.
I don’t even know how to respond to this. It’s filled with so much hyperbole that there’s nothing factual to refute or discuss. All I can say is that I vehemently disagree with your opinions on the matter.
Yeah it’s clear she wants a two state solution.
Apparently no one in the comments has been paying attention. She’s been saying these same lines about Gaza since the convention speech.
There’s been a lot of FUD about it and .ml has been running wild denying anything even remotely pro peace from her.
At any rate literally all we need at this point is a president that tells Netanyahu he either accepts a negotiated return of remaining hostages and withdraws or he loses our weapons support.
But Biden is also doing his best to pump up their ammo supply so the next president actually doesn’t have the influence Biden could have had. It’s 2024 and I’m ashamed we didn’t learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames. They’ve been shamelessly giving Israel our best military technology with no regard to their political situation. College students called this as the most likely path 2 decades ago, and here we are appearing to be caught by surprise.
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Yup I was born yesterday, and I’m wholly incapable of reading.
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Fun fact, there’s a 2008 law that specifically forces the president to give Israel all the best military hardware.
It was passed by W on his way out the door, and due to the Democratic party being compromised as hell, there’s never been enough votes to get rid of it, and any time the president might want to hold things back, they get sued under that law.
PDF warning but anyone wanting to peep the law - it’s here.
https://www.congress.gov/112/statute/STATUTE-126/STATUTE-126-Pg1146.pdf
There’s actually very explicit language that Congress wrote into the law basically ensuring the president, or the executive at large, has to support Israel militarily.
So there isn’t really an easy way for a president to unilaterally untangle us from our military alliance with Israel even if they want to. It will take a literal act of Congress to change the course of the State Dept when it comes to Israel as a lot of what is wrong is prescribed by law as necessary.
Fun fact, there’s a 2008
What law is that? I keep hearing about it but I can’t find that law.
I did find several that prohibit the US from providing aid to countries that commit human rights violations but nothing that requires the US to give anyone any military hardware.
PDF warning but anyone wanting to peep the law - it’s here.
https://www.congress.gov/112/statute/STATUTE-126/STATUTE-126-Pg1146.pdf
There’s actually very explicit language that Congress wrote into the law basically ensuring the president, or the executive at large, has to support Israel militarily.
So there isn’t really an easy way for a president to unilaterally untangle us from our military alliance with Israel even if they want to. It will take a literal act of Congress to change the course of the State Dept when it comes to Israel as a lot of what is wrong is prescribed by law as necessary.
Biden and Obama both could have used the leahy law on day one. We have evidence going that far back that Israel systematically commits war crimes, including occupying Palestine in an illegal manner. To be clear there is a way they could have done it legally. But things including extending their own, civilian, legal system into the occupied areas preclude it being legal.
It’s 2024 and I’m ashamed we didn’t learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames.
We did learn. Just all the wrong lessons. Iran taught us that you can ride a wave of hate for 50 years. South Africa taught us that you crack down on the BDS movement day one and keep the media on lock for your Apartheid friends.
What did South Africa do to BTS?
Boycott Divest Sanction
I hate that you’re right. I want to live in a country that’s actually moral.
Then you need to find a different planet.
Speaking directly to people with child brains
The replies I’m getting are filled with the broken english and rote talking points of Russian shills
Trump said that too and it apparently won him some Muslim votes. People with child brains are a major undecided demographic.
Edit: I am not saying Muslims are any more child-brained than the general population. As a source for the first sentence, watch this clip from yesterday’s Czech TV news (key quotes start at 1:28):
Czech TV is a public source that is trying to be as neutral as possible (which of course helps extreme views as the reporters feel the need to include them). I don’t think this coverage is a bad source for a basic understanding of the situation.
Thank you for being one of the rare honest liberals that admits that this is purely cynical lip service and that you can’t end a genocide by voting for the nazis committing it
not that you get much credit for that from me. you are after all a nazi acting like that cynicism is a good thing
🤡
Well you’re one of the child brains in this case so good for you I guess? If your single issue is between someone who can’t suddenly fix your problem overnight while trying to stop fasism and a fascist who promised genocide in the place you care plus where he wants to run as president then you need to think about your choice.
If your single issue is between someone who can’t suddenly fix your problem overnight
The president can literally fix this problem overnight
Minor distinction, but Israel doesn’t have a President, Netanyahu is the Prime Minister.
You couldn’t be any more convincing that no one should ever listen to you. I know people like you are allergic to actually doing anything that will progress what you supposedly believe, but at least you could not insult people who are literally agreeing with you.
I’d rather be allergic to progressing towards my believes than actively support genocide. But I don’t think that’s how this works. I think the people I’m alienating myself towards are already unforgivable nazi trash who are diametrically opposed to the better world I would like to create. You on the other hand want to preserve comfort for yourself at the cost of millions of lives just because they’re brown and across the world. So this childish mean girls shit you just tried to pull isn’t the worst thing about you by a long shot.
Broken English as fuck - beliefs not believes
Uneducated fool!
Haha! You got me! Go team burning children alive with white phosphorus! Yay!
Uneducated fool!
Blood soaked nazi
“Actively.” There’s that word. What does that mean? Usually it means you’re doing something that causes another thing. Let’s go with that for a second. Let’s say I don’t vote for Harris. Does the genocide end? Almost certainly not, so my action is not perpetuating it. If Trump wins do more people die? Probably, so taking action that causes that is actively creating that situation (and doing nothing is still a choice).
Harris at least has said continuously she wants to stop it. I’ll actively be part of that instead of actively being a part of making that not happen. Fuck off you genocide enabling ignoramus. Go ahead and pretend like you’re doing something in your quite place.
Mental gymnastics. You are voting for the people committing the genocide. Not helpless onlookers.
Oh? Did Harris say something you liked? The day before the election? Well of course she must be telling the truth. And there’s absolutely zero evidence to the contrary! It’s not like she said “war” and not “genocide” even in this statement you’re holding up as her being anti-genocide. That would mean you have the object permanence appropriate to call “baby brain.”
Mental gymnastics. You’re helping people who want to commit genocide and expand it get elected.
She’s said many things I like, and as I said she’s said this many times before. This isn’t the first time, but I don’t expect you to know that. Go sit in your corner. You aren’t informed and only want to complain about not getting your way, while also not working towards that.
So this childish mean girls shit you just tried to pull isn’t the worst thing about you by a long shot.
What kind hellish discrimination is this?
People can decide what ever sexual or gender orientation they want to be.
Just by looking at name one cannot genderise others. Which century are living in? Even if you are so anti against genocide against brown people, what about the black people who were used to work and tortured? Accepting that as a norm seem fine ur idealism.
Try to refrain from speaking against something which Trumpists are well know for supporting. Century old traditions of oppressing the non-whites.
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Still meandering in the times of mean girls! Grow up jackass!
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Of all the things you could bring up to say ‘Trump bad’ you chose that?
Didn’t want to go in the details as inspite of all information in front of you u chose to go blabbering.
Just a little nudge !
Just a little reminder that the second there’s an opportunity for liberals to be homophobic they’re going to throw me under the bus?
That you’re willing to let millions of people die so you can go back to ignoring politics and if you lose you’re going to join the side of my oppressors and blame your victims for deserving it?
I didn’t need a reminder; you’re already doing that under Biden.
But thanks for reminding me how condescending you can be despite being the dumbest motherfucker in the room.
The genocide in Gaza.
It is not useful for Harris to call the genocide a genocide because it would hurt her chances of being elected. If Trump is elected instead of Harris, the genocide will continue until all Palestinians are dead.
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide because that hurts the chances of the genocide ending while Palestinians are still alive.
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide
Fucking liberalism in a nutshell.
As opposed to? Conservatism? How do you expect that to be different? Because in terms of president, those are your two options right now.
As opposed to?
Actual leftism. Liberalism is a Conservative movement.
How do you expect that to be different?
State level electoral reform to replace first past the post voting. Introduce competition into the voting system.
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What so you mean?
So you’re looking at a criticism of liberalism, from the left of liberalism. Namely the socialist left, I am assuming. Socialists can be very critical of liberals, as liberalism is a part of the establishment, and has a long history of caving to right wing framing of issues (since the right wing is also (largely) liberalism, albeit “classical liberal.” In this case critical of the “its not practical” preconception that gives ground (literally) to the perpetuators of this genocide.
No, it’s utility. The idea that we can achieve our goals despite not currently having leftists and socialists in power. Not wanting to get your hands dirty isn’t even a political position.
No idea how you plan to achieve your goals when your first step is Holocaust denial.
I will wait until she gets elected, and then if she continues to refuse to call it a genocide, then I will hold her accountable then.
But first, the existence of Palestine as contingent on her winning. Like literally.
I will hold her accountable then
By… what mechanism?
Genocide and war aren’t mutually exclusive. The Holocaust happened during WWII.
I understand how politics works, and I can understand some of the many complications and consequences involved, but words have meaning, and meaning conveys truth.
So if you want to represent the nuanced, complex (one sided) world of real politik, then that is certainly a good exercise. “in my power” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, especially since she’s committed to, let’s say, bend the truth quite a bit with this sentence.
But skepticism alone isn’t analysis. I think by saying this she is trying to lure over “Uncommitted” conscientious objectors who are on the fence and may withhold their vote. But by not speaking strongly enough, she will never reach the vast majority of those people. This assurance feels empty to me. She’s not an ardent supporter of Palestinians, but who can see the future? Events are rapid and things change, "We exist in a context, all that.
But there are disadvantages to people only taking political action by way of their votes, and maybe this is one of them.
I hope she wins. But if she doesn’t the dems will blame those same voters, along with Greens (which, whatever) and any other third party voters instead of coming to grips with their many many failings over the last 8 - 10 years.
But if she doesn’t the dems will blame those same voters, along with Greens (which, whatever) and any other third party voters instead of coming to grips with their many many failings
This is something that a lot of people don’t think critically about. The republican party is largely homogonized. There isn’t much diversity to their demographic at all. I had great hopes that Trump would fracture the republican party, but they’re even more spineless than I realized. For all the “Trump isn’t fit” gnashing that came before his win, even from the republican party, they sure fell in line behind him real quick. Republicans are all about party over country. They don’t care about compromise, and in fact they don’t want compromise. They will tank their own bills if they think the bill will serve any benefit for democrats. Party above all else, and that’s what gives them so much power.
On the opposite side, democrats are in many ways a coalition of various groups of non-republican voters, each group with their own desires and priorities, some in opposition to others who fall under the same umbrella. If the democrats lose support from one of their many sub-groups, that leads to a loss at the polls, which is a win for conservatives and the country gets pulled Evac further to the right. So democrats constantly have a very fine line to walk to pull voters to their side without pissing off another of their constituent groups.
It sucks, it’s not the way things should be, but it is the reality of our current situation. I’m not advocating for feckless Democrat leaders, rather, I am advocating against conservatives who will absolutely move the country in a direction away from my desired outcomes.
I agree with a lot of your analysis, but I think a lot of these conclusions are highly contingent on historical circumstance. For example, I think Trump is a lot more unpopular than the current narrative regarding Trump. The Dems do not want to be so wrong about Trump’s chance of winning as they were in 2016. A dynamic that could play out in this election is that many of the groups you identified (and were right to do so) feel so threatened by a Trump presidency (in part because of Dems successful and good organizing against him) causes those groups to unite and keep him out of office. This could lead to a split between the pragmatic republican movement concerned with maintaining the status quo, and the pro-Trump MAGA militants who are not as homogenous of a group as may first appear.
But feel free to “neener neener” about it if I end up being wrong in a few hours. My point is, things change, a disparate group of different interests can unite into an unbreakable bloc, and vice versa, in a traumatizingly short amount of time if recent years can be a teacher
So if you want to represent the nuanced, complex (one sided) world of real politik, then that is certainly a good exercise.
No, unlike your argument, I’m not arguing we split hairs over semantics.
she will never reach the vast majority of those people.
Unless.
She committed to ending the war in Gaza. If the war ends, the genocide ends. Tell people.
No she committed to do everything in her power to end the war. Very different. Sometimes “splitting hairs” isn’t just semantically, especially when it is political. Tell People.
Your argument is splitting hairs. If you care about the Palestinian people then tell people the truth. Harris wants to end the war in Gaza. Trump wants Israel to finish the job. Tomorrow is election day. It’s time to help the Palestinian people in the most useful way we can. By getting Kamala Harris and Tim Walz elected. Splitting hairs over Harris’ words is not useful.
Way to stay on message
This reads as a joke but it’s actually true 😂
Bibi hates her, so that’s a good start.
Considering that him and Trump talk all the time, I would say he isn’t excited for Harris. He knows when the war is over, he is fucked. Remember, he tried to remove their supreme court before the war.
I would say he isn’t excited for Harris.
Yes… That’s what “Bibi hates her” means.
I bet ypu are fun at parties.
Ypu!? I love that guy! They are a party animal…
3rd party voters: “I’m not voting for Harris until she condemns the Gaza war!”
Harris: *says she condemns the Gaza war*
3rd party voters: *desperate scrambling sounds to find something else to be a single issue contrarian*
I’m really hoping I’m wrong about that, but I’m seeing it on this thread.
Have you been to a protest or talked to pro-Palestinian voices. The demand has always been to stop weapons shipments to Israel, even before October 7th. This isn’t moving the goal posts, the goal posts have been there for decades, it’s just both parties have and continue to ignore them.
Strawmen are the only kind of people they have rebuttals to, not any actual thinking humans.
Third-party voters as a whole don’t matter nearly as much as the handful of Muslims in Michigan that this message is directed towards. Also, this message is not significantly different than what she’s been saying since the DNC. Her big misstep wasn’t her messaging on Gaza; it was ignoring the Uncommitted leaders entirely.
Yep, the Democrats didn’t even allow a Palestinian to speak at the DNC, but they had how many Republican politicians come on stage?
The Democrats have ignored the Muslim/Arab community almost entirely this election cycle, and are now freaking out because their Status-Quo policy decisions might have cost them the election.
And when you point this out on Lemmy, you’re screamed at for being a Trump supporter and wanting Gaza leveled. No, we just wanted our party leadership to reflect the wants of the majority of their constituents for once.
Exactly. The progressive base is somehow never big enough to win the Democrats the election, but if they complain at all about the party or the candidate, they immediately become large enough to cost the Democrats the election.
[sigh]…that being said, if you haven’t already, please go vote for Kamala today, especially if you live in a swing state.
They do not want to condemn the war.
The want to end the genocide.
there goes the goalposts
No, the goal post has always been that she’ll enforce America’s laws regarding weapon shipments until israel behaves. This is not that. This ‘ill continue the Biden policy of committing a genocide and periodically send sternly worded letters that do nothing.’.followed by ‘israel has a right to defend itself’ platitudes.
Harris needs to commit. And this is not that. No goal posts have been moved. Shes trotted out some tokens and said the same thing shes said every time.
Empty rhetoric about “war” has never been a worthwhile “goalpost”. We’ve had more than a year of that already from genocide joe.
It’s always been about ending the genocide and reversing zionism more generally.
Debunking the strawman is not moving the goalpost.
You do not get to set the demands for other voters. And then pretend they have been met when they are clearly not.
Why should they give a fuck about your “demands” when you change them immediately once met?
The demands haven’t changed. They’ve always been, and this is really quite simple; stop sending weapons to Israel while it’s engaging in genocide. The goalposts have not shifted.
Kamala already promised not to impose a weapons embargo on Israel. She still does not call it a genocide. No demands have been met.
What does she mean by everything in her power? Nuking Gaza so the “war” ends? Send in the American military to fight in Gaza?
Liberals will see no problem choosing polite, handwringing genocide over rowdy, bombastic genocide. They fall so easily for style points and optics completely devoid of substance.
20 years from now, when the only choices are between a dem who wants 20 genocide and a republican who wants 21, liberals will still be frothing at the mouths, blaming anti-genocide leftists for the country’s devoluton into fascism. This is the logical conclusion of liberal “pragmatic utilitarianism”
In biology, one learns about a certain species of caterpillar that can only cross the threshold of metamorphosis by seeing its future butterfly. Proletarian subjectivity does not evolve by incremental steps but requires nonlinear leaps, especially by way of moral self-recognition through solidarity with the struggle of a distant people. Even when this contradicts short-term self-interest, as in the famous cases of Lancashire cotton workers’ enthusiasm for Lincoln and later for Gandhi, such efforts not only anticipate a world beyond capitalism, they concretely advance the working class’s march toward it.
Socialism, in other words, requires nonutilitarian actors, whose ultimate motivations and values arise from structures of feeling that others would deem spiritual. Marx rightly scourged romantic humanism in the abstract, but his personal pantheon — Prometheus and Spartacus, Homer, Cervantes, and Shakespeare — affirmed a heroic vision of human possibility. But can that possibility be realized in today’s world, a world where the “old working class” has been demoted in agency?
-Mike Davis
Was she supposed to single-handedly end the war in Gaza as VP to earn your vote, or does she specifically need to declare war on Israel to satisfy you? You gotta know that isn’t a winning campaign promise.
Aren’t most polls against the genocide, so it would’ve helped? Even the goalposts you’re providing don’t acknowledge it as a genocide.
I mean for context something like 70 million early voters already cast their ballot, so this quite literally cannot change their vote and that number is roughly half of the entire votes cast the entire last election. So in all likelihood, roughly half the people you’re mad at can’t react at all because of how long she waited.
It’s completely in her power to stop whitewashing a genocide and creating false equivalences by calling it a “war”.
Not if she wants to get elected. I’ve said since the convention that they’re trying their best to not piss off either side and that’s mostly been their strategy. Even when she’s releasing statements on the death of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders she’s very careful to say, as an American leader, I’m glad this dude, who killed Americans, is dead.
Of course that was evidence of her being a flaming Zionist to people who want Trump elected.
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Yeah, no. Just not true. 6 point bump lol you fucking clown. I don’t think you understand how much power the Israel lobby has here. She would 100% lose if she came out strong against the genocide.
Wait until she is elected, then criticize her if she refuses to call it a genocide.
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AIPAC - they throw their weight around and a candidate is in big trouble.
Just to clarify, elected? Or inaugurated?
I’d like to see her take an appropriate position soon, but am not optimistic.
Most of those Democrats aren’t campaigning on BDS either and the polling is inconclusive. It turns on how exactly the questions are asked. The only concrete thing we’ve actually seen from them is that Americans want their president to negotiate a peace as soon as possible.
She’s not negotiating anything yet. She’s working with cards dealt by someone else. And she will be doing so as President too because that’s the life of a third party mediator.
If you want someone who will wave a magic wand and expect results, vote for Trump.
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I don’t know what country you think she’s running to be president for, but Netanyahu is not going to be her subordinate. She cannot simply order the end of the Gaza war. She also doesn’t get to choose the representatives in Congress. This isn’t a party system where representatives are pre-approved and seated in order. She gets the representatives that each district sends. Obviously there’s some influence there but there’s also limits, as the entire ordeal of being primaried shows.
So I don’t know what else to say except welcome to American Civics 101. Pocket constitutions are on the table on the right, and political sports regalia on the left table.
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I really hope you aren’t American because you don’t actually have the first clue as to how we elect Congress. She can’t even refuse to seat representatives. There’s 435 districts that elect their own representative, and they’re the only ones that can fire that representative. She could remove support for their next election but the party would need to make sure to line up a replacement and gear up to support their replacement in the inevitable primary fight. They cannot do that 215 times. They can’t do it 4 times. It took AIPAC to unseat one of the 4 left most Democrats. Their entire attention is on districts that are threatened by Republicans. And if you think they’re going to primary a proven winner in a purple district then you’re really smoking something.
So when the House party leader speaks. The President listens.
Nor have you considered that Israel could easily continue the food blockade under the guise of a continued war, without American bombs. It doesn’t take the US to manufacture bullets. That’s why the end of the war, and not just weapon shipments is desirable.
How much are your Mossad handlers paying you to type this?
Not until after the election. She’s walking a wire trying to get nonMAGA republicans to vote for her in order to save Democracy. They need to at least pretend to believe she won’t completely abandon Israel. If she can beat Trump, she’ll then be free to call a genocide a genocide. In any case, Trump wants to end the war by letting his buddy Bibi nuke Gaza and just fucking kill all the Palestinians. A “final solution” as it were.
Literal last minute shilling bruh
If she had said this once like even 2 weeks ago, people might have actually listened
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Why do so many people feel the need to announce their blocks on lemmy?
Block me as well. Don’t forget the ritualistic reply to my comment publicly announcing your block!
Never even mentioned Republicans.
My point is she spent her entire campaign ignoring this problem until literally the last minute.
People already voted on Sunday in Michigan. Even if you think this would have changed people’s minds, she could have said it 2 days ago and still had more effect.
Bullshit, she’s been saying basically that same sequence of lines, starting with the convention speech (maybe even before but I don’t remember), at rallies and in some interviews. I think her saying it with protesters shouting at the rally made the media hype it up a bit more, but what she said yesterday is pretty much the same lines she’s used on the topic the whole campaign.
The only variation has been the first few words. She started out with “Now is the time to …blah blah blah” to “I will work hard to … blah blah” to now “I will do everything in my power to …blah blah”. After that intro phrase, the rest of the lines have been the same every time.
