I like how ambiguously
This place
can either mean “4chan” or “outside.”
This is depressing as fuck. People have been murdered en masse by radicalized morons from 4chan. They literally live in this bubble of their own creation where they honestly believe that the world has singled them out for victimization.
It’s a kind of useful to have websites like reddit and 4chan to accuse of fostering thought bubbles, hate speech, and victimhood.
This sounds scaringly similar to a country in the Middle East heavily supported by the US.
I don’t know half the terms used and I’m pretty sure I never want to.
Terms like “outside”, “people”, “dating”, “pleasent conversations” and “touch with reality”?
Too bad my classmates are like that, in our cafeteria we have a machine where you press a lever with your glass and it dispenses whatever drink was above
Well the important thing is that we have flavoured milk as one of the options, and my classmates started calling it “box milk”, thus was started by our class autistic guy (not really but his friends call him that, and like he does know every gun, tank, ship and plane that was made since the start of WW1 so there’s a reason), so thank you Pavel
What, no mention of phrenology? I’ve lost touch with 4chan, too much grass touching for me.
Lemmy in a nutshell too tbh.
I don’t know what boards you’re on, but wow. Not the experience I’m having on Lemmy. You might wanna check your subscribes.
The proletariat revolution is happening…tomorrow!
The year of the Linux desktop!
Yes leftism is just as bad as incel misogyny, I also live in a world without nuance.
If I have to choose I prefer femcel over incel its more fun
At least they make fire memes
I’m not having that experience at all as a member of lemm.ee and I am very thankful.
No one maybe talking about lookism but they’re practicing it.
Between strangers, yes. For social groups, people tend to stop seeing each others looks as they get to know each other. This is where people’s advice to work on your personality is necessary. If you’re out just expecting random people to approach you because of your looks, you’re going to be waiting around for a long time unless you’re blessed with the lucky quality of being born gorgeous.
If you go outside more you also notice that there aren’t a lot of gorgeous people in the real world. (No, Tinder, clubs and other places where people LARP don’t count as the real world.)
Agree with the first but not last paragraph; I work at a grocery and every day I’m floored by how many beautiful people come in on a daily basis. People I would consider just as beautiful if not more so than models.
Exactly.
Honestly, if I was dating today, I probably wouldn’t select my SO based on looks, because let’s face it, we’re both getting older and a bit less attractive. But that literally doesn’t matter to me and I find them beautiful, because of the life we’ve spent together. I was initially attracted to them based on looks, but after some weeks, that really didn’t matter any more.
Likewise with friends, I probably initially made my friends based on looks, but I honestly don’t care what they look like anymore, they’re just my friends.
Wait, really? Whenever I spend more time at work or at home I tend to forget how many really attractive people are really out there. Whenever I go out after a long period of time I end up being positively surprised. I would also not look at Tinder as an example, but because of the opposite: people on tinder look much uglier than in real life. But then again, usually outside you don’t look at people for more than one or two seconds, while on tinder there’s loads of photos for you to examine every single flaw
I suppose everyone is different, but most people tend to agree that photos are often misleading in one way or another. Typically though, photos tend to flatten features and as you said, accent and display flaws for people to stare at, whereas in real life, people are “alive” and dynamic and you see that “flaw” was actually just an angle or photo-artifact, and people’s expressions can provide a sense of dynamic life and motion that most people find more agreeable on an aesthetic level.
But more than anything, face-to-face socializing is incredibly important because when you get to know someone, their appearance changes.
Not a deluding-yourself kind of way like some people think, but literally your sense of what you find appealing will change. This is why again, social friend groups are the best places to meet people, you don’t have to feel as insecure about your appearance if you can socialize and make friends, people will associate you with positive feelings, and you them, and you will all become familiar and attractive to each other in one way or another.
Wait! Step-sister, this is wrong!
Imagine being so obsessed by black dick as 4Chan.
Interacting face-to-face with non-degenerates results in normal chat. Whoda thunk?
This is why people like this are told to go outside or touch grass.
Frankly all of 4chan should.
But then our supply chain of clinically insane greentexts would fail.
Yeah, we’re way better over here on lemmy. (The lack of racism really does make us better tho)
I heard a story about a whole world that was perfect because they locked a kid up in a room and threw all the bad stuff in there with the kid. The poor kid suffered all of the world’s miseries so that others could enjoy life. That kid’s name? 4chan.
4chan is 99% deplorable garbage. I won’t even go into /b/. Helllll no. But oddly enough, some of the internet’s best memes come out of there.
The Mysterious Hacker 4chan
It’s the primordial soup of internet content.
4chan is what the internet would look like if everything had the bare minimum of moderation. Actually a very interesting case study about the human psyche, and I’ve had many a interesting conversation on there, especially early internet days.
Is it a shithole? Overall, yes. But the right board at the right time is truly early internet ethos.
If the entire internet was as unmoderated as 4chan, it would be a lot less extreme than 4chan is.
But since there are only very few places like that, all the weirdos and nazis congregate there, cause that’s where they don’t get banned for using the n-word.
it would be a lot less extreme than 4chan is
I don’t really think so, every online fora I’ve been a part of starts unmoderated, and it works, for years sometimes. But every single time without fail when a platform reaches a critical mass, moderation becomes necessary.
I think putting a digital mask on shows the true nature of people, and moderation is the only way of keeping conversation* civil on the internet.
moderation becomes necessary
Maybe, if you’re determined to preserve a certain culture on a specific site. But as long as movement between sites is pretty easy (was quite common in the days of forums), then the community could self-regulate reasonably well. Either the weirdos would leave, or the constructive members of the community would leave and the site would get shut down. Either way, the problem solves itself without moderation becoming necessary.
IMO, the only reason we “need” moderation is because we’ve decided that the site itself needs to be preserved. That’s the mindset that needs to change. Sites should come and go and take the trash out with it.
Moderation isn’t necessary if you’re willing to just throw the whole site away when it turns to shit.
Well, yeah. Storing your potatoes in the dark is also not “necessary” if you’re willing to just throw them away when they sprout. But wanting to preserve things we like is a given to most people.
Assuming only a place of pure misery could produce those memes
Isn’t the concept of a meme itself a leak from 4chan?
The original idea of a meme came from Dawkins in the 70’s, and “Internet Meme” from Godwin in the early 90’s, talking about message boards, usenet, listservs, etc.
4chan did not start the concept, no. Lolcats came from 4chan, iirc. But internet memes predate the existence of 4chan.
Well the word “meme” comes from Dawkins, but his usage was not to label the idea we talk about when we talk about memes.
I know for a fact where I’m from memes were something you’d only ever see on 4chan and people on Facebook and any other “normal” social media (or people) had no idea of what the fuck even was a meme.
I rememeber because I was like “this people are degenerates but it’s fascinating the whole layers upon layers of insane meaning that they managed to cram into single pictures, I wonder if people outside this bubble would ever understand those”.
And to be fair memes nowdays are rarely as “obscure” as those old ones.
No, it was Godwin for internet memes.
If you mean image macros, sure. That’s a subset of what a meme is.
Many forget that a meme is simply a concept or idea that grabs hold within a human community and is propagated and promulgated. Patriarchy is a meme. Capitalism is a meme. Doing ‘bunny ears’ behind someone’s head in a photo is a meme (h/t Parker and Stone). Doing cave paintings of animals is a meme. Fashion of an era is a meme. Our entire social structure runs on memes.
Through this sieve would come the ascended madmen. Those who escaped the cave and rejected the reality without, retreating to their chamber of hate and stagnation. The truly unhinged. No more naive, parroted bastardizations of the Socratic method. Only irreparables.
This select choir of lunatics voluntarily ablating their sanity will be decadence enough, I think
Wtf is a Gonial Angle or a Canthal tilt?
Gonial angle is this:
Canthal tilt is that:
As I was googling I’ve seen articles mentioning some angles statistically more attractive than others, that’s predictable, but then incels take it as another reason why they are genetically predisposed to stay virgins and have no power to change that.
The ifunny watermark really tips this over the edge, comedically.
It could only be beaten by a SomethingAwful watermark (do they have one?) on a picture of non-attractive angles.
I’ve no doubt that at least half the articles about those phrases will lead you down a path of right wing fuckbaggery.
Closer to 99%. This is modern phrenology for incels.
Ah, am woman, can confirm I only date mane with a Gonial Angle over 140 degrees, or under 30
Under 30 degrees? So, like pugs and French bulldogs?
how do you bring out the protractor on dates?
Oh, us females inherently judge the angle flawlessly on first sight.
Some people take pleasure in being pitied and victimised.
Far too many.
As a gigachad I can confirm.
Things people think about when they haven’t learned to manage obsessive rumination in their own minds and live every day with a kind of stress or misery that few people who are even slightly healthier can even comprehend.
I’m going to guess at “Incel excuses for not getting laid.”
Anything but the harsh reality that they could get laid if they behaved better and presented themselves better
And bathed
Yup, the bar is sadly that low sometimes.
Talking with some female friends the bar for men is so incredibly low. Trim your hair, bathe regularly, brush your teeth and be non-creepy and you’re already in the top 50% or so
You need to touch less grass and spend more time online.
Do I really?
Depends on whether you want to a cool kid.
Who the fuck cares honestly other than shut in weirdo’s
Idk being more social after covid has made me more conservative. A lot of behavior that I assumed was exclusively online turned out to be surprisingly common in real life.
A lot of the sexism parts in particular were jarring. A significant minority of grown ass women basically used #metoo as leverage to behave in a sexist and immature manner. There’s also a culture where other women are extremely reluctant to call out that behavior, or else they might be accused of “internalizing their sexism” and not sufficiently supporting women. I dismissed the postings about that as incel-bait during the pandemic, but it turns out it’s extremely common.
Found the guy who needs the advice to go outside but refuses to take it
So my post was explicitly about how I dismissed a lot of things I read on the internet as BS until I encountered them in real life. The part about “ethnical non monogamy” was something I didn’t truly believe until I saw it more than once, including some explicit details at a 4th of July party provided by a wife with a visibly uncomfortable husband.
What is your definition of “outside”?
What behaviors do you mean and how does that correlate to being conservative?
So the behaviors are the same kind of things that you’ve seen forever among people who can get away with it. Immaturity, bigotry, cruelty, etc. However I myself am a liberal, and live in a liberal area of the country. A lot of people use liberal rhetoric to behave in an objectively toxic way, often by coding criticism of their actions as conservative or the toxic actions themselves as liberal.
I mentioned sexism from women, so I’ll focus on that:
- As I mentioned earlier, a lot of “ethically non monogamous” relationships that are basically a woman gaslighting their partner into letting them cheat on them. This is often talked about as a sort of a sexual identity, with the implication that hating on this is the same as hating on a gay relationship or a woman who chooses to be single.
- As I mentioned earlier, women are highly encouraged to support other women regardless of circumstances. A failure to do so is implied to be sexist.
- In general there is this default assumption that a man is nefarious, usually with some reference to true crime or “the implication”. This assumption is not only a massively sexist generalization, but is never logical. If a man is tall and built he gets the benefit of the doubt, despite being objectively more of a threat than a short chubby guy. The first thing I do when I meet a woman I don’t know in a social setting is to somehow work in that I have a girlfriend in a way that feels organic, and a good amount of times I can see their body language shift. This is despite the fact that my SO is often not with me, and that there are a million different true crime stories involving a heterosexual couple both being evil. All of this is justified with progressive #metoo rhetoric
- There are a lot of single women I know that are very much architects of their own misery. They have super shallow dating standards, unrealistic expectations, and this mentality that if a man is attractive enough red flags are just misunderstanding. When things inevitably go wrong they make sweeping statements about men. Despite this being more or less nonsense, it’s considered sexist to call them out.
- There are multi hundred member Facebook groups of women in every city that gossip about the men they date. This is obviously toxic, but the organizers frame it as a #metoo thing so it’s widely considered acceptable.
- Basically everything I mentioned would be considered absolutely unacceptable if genders were reversed, but if you bring this up then you’ll get a pseudo academic lecture about historical oppression and the patriarchy that basically boils down to “it’s different when I do it”.
- This isn’t a big deal at all, but it’s sort of ridiculous that most women I meet both consider themselves feminist but will get peeved if men don’t pay for the date.
Of course, sexism is just one example. I use it because I find this stuff is the most egregious. I also have a lot of frustration about other things, most notably shitty people making a huge deal about how much they love drag queens in what I view as an effort to obfuscate from how shitty and judgmental they are.
My response to all of this has been to become more conservative. Note the delta. I’m not conservative. However I am also in no way shape or form a progressive anymore. I don’t think liberals have nearly the moral superiority they think they do when it comes to how you treat people on a day to day basis. I support queer identities, but have become more conservative in my idea of monogamy and commitment. I even briefly considered staying home this election when it looked like the main line of attack democrats were gonna do was just to call republicans weirdos over and over again until November, because I’m personally just done associating myself with middle school mean girl politics.
Gonna be honest with you, these all mostly sounds like toxic masculinity, which isn’t really dealt with well by conservatives, mostly because they don’t like critical thinking and all that.
a lot of “ethically non monogamous” relationships that are basically a woman gaslighting their partner into letting them cheat on them
Um, I actually think it’s the opposite? It’s not cheating if all partners consent. If you don’t want to date someone who is ENM, then… don’t? Most ENM people don’t want to date monogamous people! That’s why you tell everyone before you do it (that’s the ethical part.)
women are highly encouraged to support other women regardless of circumstances. A failure to do so is implied to be sexist.
I don’t see the problem here? Is it bad to support women, or is it that they somehow support bad women? Do men not do similar?
In general there is this default assumption that a man is nefarious, usually with some reference to true crime or “the implication”.
This has some truth to it, and while I understand that this is, indeed, a sexist take, it’s one that is perpetuated by a patriarchal culture. Men have unreasonable standards thrust upon them the same way women do, but the standards are not necessarily equal in how they affect us, even on an individial level. Men are indeed seen as more violent as a whole, just as women are seen as sex objects as a whole, and working to change those societal pressures to conform to them is the point of pointing to “toxic masculinity.” There are good aspects to masculinity to admire, that we can try to positively adopt those, the same way that women try to adopt positive aspects of feminimity!
I actually see this the worst among conservative men and women. Conservative men and women tell you to “man up”, that “men don’t cry”, that you need to “take it with your own hands”, the idea of “alpha and beta males”. Very aggressive, and that’s a toxic mindset. The hard part about those cultural aspects is that they DO affect us all! Part of feminism is undersranding these biases within yourself and actively working to change them.
The first thing I do when I meet a woman I don’t know in a social setting is to somehow work in that I have a girlfriend in a way that feels organic, and a good amount of times I can see their body language shift
This actually goes both ways, too. Women very often have to tell men they aren’t interested, trying to tell them gently that they are taken. (There is the joke of “I have a boyfriend.” out of the blue to the most innocuous things.) This is a consequence of a society that pushes men to be the active pursuer of relationships. It is, frankly, stressful to have every interaction possibly be taken as a signal that you want a relationship. It is easy for me to understand their perspective because it feels like how my PTSD manifested. Trauma is hard to deal with, and being understanding and accomodating can also be hard, too.
There are a lot of single women I know that are very much architects of their own misery. They have super shallow dating standards, unrealistic expectations, and this mentality that if a man is attractive enough red flags are just misunderstanding.
Very much applies to anyone of any gender, so I’m not sure of the issue. I have seen this in cis-men, cis-women, trans-men, trans-women, enbies, gay men, lesbian women, and so on. This is not exclusive to women, and never will be.
- There are multi hundred member Facebook groups of women in every city that gossip about the men they date. This is obviously toxic, but the organizers frame it as a #metoo thing so it’s widely considered acceptable.
Okay? Don’t date them? I don’t see the issue, but discussing your partners isn’t particularly weird, and men do this too, and if it bothers you, well, don’t date anyone who does it.
- Basically everything I mentioned would be considered absolutely unacceptable if genders were reversed, but if you bring this up then you’ll get a pseudo academic lecture about historical oppression and the patriarchy that basically boils down to “it’s different when I do it”.
There’s some truth to that. Women are, ostensibly, an oppressed group, having less rights than men do, as well as being the one responsible when they get pregnant. They maintain a level of risk that most men do not have to face (though you could consider it a different type of risk, since men also face their own adversities that women typically do not.)
However, that’s irrelevant because none of the things you listed were women-exclusive behaviors, but I figured I would explain why it might be important just in case.
- This isn’t a big deal at all, but it’s sort of ridiculous that most women I meet both consider themselves feminist but will get peeved if men don’t pay for the date.
Don’t date them, then? I mean, I get it. I like when my dates offer to split, and I do judge them if they don’t. But it’s definitely silly to bring up as though they aren’t a feminist for engaging in that behavior. Progress is made incrementally, and sometimes we aren’t aware lf our own biases.
I support queer identities, but have become more conservative in my idea of monogamy and commitment.
Hey man, monogamy is a dating choice, just like ENM. No one makes you have to be one or the other. It is okay to be monogamous, but no one has ever oppressed monogamous people.
I even briefly considered staying home this election when it looked like the main line of attack democrats were gonna do was just to call republicans weirdos over and over again until November, because I’m personally just done associating myself with middle school mean girl politics.
It is really weird to me that you thought calling people weird for legitimately fascist behavior as a way of denormalizing that behavior was somehow a step too far, but the behavior that provoked it wasn’t, as if they hadn’t attempted to call the behavior out beforehand and were ignored.
If that was gonna dissuade you, then I think you might have bigger problems.
Jesus fucking christ why do I bother. You didn’t ask because you wanted to actually know what I thought. You just wanted to lecture me why I’m wrong. There was absolutely nothing I could have said that you wouldn’t have used as a launching off point.
I did ask because I wanted to know. I just thought they were reasons to come to a different conclusion. Societal and cultural pressures on men aren’t dealt with to the same level as women, and we do leave men to fend for themselves because many men learned a set of behaviors that were tolerated until they weren’t. And that change can feel unfair. I think we can express masculinity in a positive way, allow us to focus on positive character traits and not physical ones.
There was a sentiment that you were hurt by someone who was ENM, and whether that was because you tried ENM and didn’t like it or whatever, it did seem to be tacked onto your perception of women. I just thought I’d try and give another view of it, in the off-chance that you or someone else reading this needed some more perspective.
You didn’t read my comment with an open mind. You asked for my input so you could give me specific things to lecture about.
I am not in an “ethical non monogamous” relationship. I have never been. However I have seen multiple men in long term relationships get strung along because their partner decided they want to leverage dating apps to have a harem. It has always ended up being a slow motion train wreck, that always ends up essentially being akin to cheating plus gaslighting. They always justify it in the same way you are doing.
You are sexist, plain and simple. You are sexist because you hold men and women to completely different standards in a comical way. You just use liberal rhetoric to justify it.
Your mentality is incredibly common. The world is full of assholes justifying shitty behavior under the guise of liberalism. It’s just an updated version of how evangelicals operated in the 80s and 90s. I’m sick of giving this shit a free pass.
Then your issue isn’t with ENM. It’s with men (I should also note that this equally applies to women and nonbinary people, but we’ll ignore them for now) staying in an ENM relationship that they clearly do not want. Why are they staying in that relationship? It’s worth exploring that.
Is it loneliness? Is it dependency? Is it a fear of not being able to find another partner? These are issues that we don’t often explore and try to help in men.
I definitely am sexist, likely in ways I don’t even know. I am working to fix those biases as I encounter them. It is tough, though in this particular situation, I don’t see those biases, so I’m trying not to be inconsiderate. I think I am holding men, women, and non-binary people to the same standard in this case.
But you are directly holding women responsible for ENM relationships when they didn’t really do anything wrong. If a man did the same thing, would you have an issue with it? If you want a harem and tell everyone in the harem about it, what’s the problem?
You know you can be on the left without falling into the trap of identity politics. Many (most) of us that consider ourselves leftists also find liberals annoying, and liberalism is not the highest ideal of the left as common notions in the US would have you believe.
interact with people
Instructions unclear, helicoptered my dick around but there appeared to be no ceiling fan.
And now the park security is approaching with tasers. I guess playgrounds aren’t considered America!
As if anon would call those conversations normal or pleasant.
