Go ahead, pressure the lesser evil to be even less evil, but you still have to vote for said lesser evil, or you’re gonna be stuck with the massively bigger evil and no human rights.
How many people do you think will vote for even a lesser evil? Go ahead and direct your effort into reinforcing that decision to me but unless you convince the millions of other people who don’t share your concern for trump we’ll all be stuck with the massively bigger evil and no human rights.
How many people do you think will vote for even a lesser evil?
If these people are looking for a non-evil choice, I don’t think I could offer them a single figure in all of history that could fit their criteria.
The only disagreement I have is that the ones who don’t get statues made of them are sonsofbitches too. We just don’t remember them.
Yeah I won’t argue with that.
Maybe each percentage more evil we lose a percentage of possible voters
pragmatically I would think we’d want to make our candidate even a fraction of a percent less evil. I’m not a mathematician though.
So you think people WILL vote for a lesser evil, and the AMOUNT of evil that it is DOES actually matter.
Certainly, but supporting a genocide is a pretty high level of evil, I imagine a lot of people are looking at that and thinking ‘hmm not worth it’.
That’s why it’s probably important to make that evil percentage trend down a bit, i reckon
So what is the difference between your position and my position with regards to this question:
How many people do you think will vote for even a lesser evil?
I’m pushing to make the lesser evil less evil. You’re pushing for people to hold their nose and vote for the lesser evil without even demanding they try being a little less evil.
the millions of other people who don’t share your concern for trump
Every day I’m more and more surprised these people exist
You shouldn’t be if you’re familiar with the parable of the boy who doth cried wolf too many times
Please enlighten me on how this is a boy who cried wolf situation? Trump has materially done many, many, many things that would individually be disasterous
Are you seriously arguing that he’s not really all that bad, or are you just here to troll?
Did you ever finish that story?
In the end, a wolf actually does come and eat the boy. The wolf is real, the boy just abused his post too much and now he can’t rely on people responding to his cried.
the lesson was supposed to be ‘don’t cry wolf’, but we’ve already moved on to the ‘he’s just crying wolf’ part of the story and now the boy has to figure out how to get people to help him
If the village already KNEW the wolf was real and had already killed a bunch of kids, their refusal to respond seems incredibly dumb.
The story had nothing to say about the rationality of ignoring the warning, just that it was foolish for the boy to abuse it.
You can either cross your fingers that enough people still believe you or find another way to bring them out (convince the boy to stop supporting… the… the other wolf I guess? Idk this analogy is getting tired)
He doesn’t realize that US military funding of Israel has been paused many times - including by Biden - as a lever to try to force change. That funding is the leverage we have over Israel. Fully halting it eliminates that leverage, and then what?
Also, the GOP has put forward legislation to remove the ability of the president to pause those deliveries, which also eliminates that leverage in a worse way. Biden has said he would veto that bill, by the way.
I’ve mentioned this before, as you well know, but it deserves mentioning again here. The fact that you can criticize Biden and there’s an outside chance he’ll listen makes him the better candidate than the guy who listens to nobody on anything that’s not about how to make him more money, with disregard to whether the money-making scheme is legal.
Edit: Let’s also not forget that the guy who listens to nobody also uses literal WWII Nazi language at his presidential campaign rallies, kind of all the time - along with an ever-increasing litany of repugnant behaviors, any one of which would have immediately halted any other political campaign in its tracks. But let’s not ever criticize that; it’s all the Democrats’ fault.
I’ve also said that the people who bark about this, only ever criticising Biden and Democrats, are either foreign propagandists or wholly taken by them. I stand by that statement.
He doesn’t realize that US military funding of Israel has been paused many times - including by Biden - as a lever to try to force change. That funding is the leverage we have over Israel. Fully halting it eliminates that leverage, and then what?
If only there was an international body charged with prosecuting international crimes, and if there was such a body, thank God it’s Biden in the white house and not Trump, who would surely obstruct bringing justice and pressure to the Isreali leaders conducting the war crimes.
If only it was domestically illegal to send weapons to foreign nations who were found to be using them to commit war crimes, that way at least Israel would know our hands were tied if they keep committing them
If only there was an international coalition of nations that could sanction Israel for committing war crimes. I’m sure if there was we would certainly not obstruct justice being brought there
If only the US had a functional military, so they could use it as a last resort to put an end to a literal fucking genocide.
What a sad reality we live in.
I’ve also said that the people who bark about this, only ever criticising Biden and Democrats, are either foreign propagandists or wholly taken by them. I stand by that statement.
Do you think Trump would relent if I was yelling at him to stop the genocide Biden was supporting?
Do you think republicans would listen to moralistic appeals to stopping genocide?
Are there even any full-throated republicans on lemmy?
This ‘why aren’t you complaining about republicans?!’ bullshit is a transparent deflection of responsibility from the people who are actively involved in the genocide. And I stand by that statement.
Do you think Trump would relent if I was yelling at him to stop the genocide Biden was supporting?
No, I do not. We should do everything we can to get him elected, so he can also not listen to you from the Oval Office!
We should do everything we can to get him elected, so he can also not listen to you from the Oval Office!
Do you feel the same way about campaigning for Biden?
I admire your level of political nihilism.
Single-issue voters have always left the barn door open for all manner of fuckery to be undertaken.
One-day-every-four-years democrats have always left the barn door open for all manner of fuckery to be undertaken, too.
bOtH SiDeS
bOtH SiDeS ^are morally exempt from genocide^
FTFY
One-day-every-four-years democrats have always left the barn door open for all manner of fuckery to be undertaken, too.
Those are called elections and ‘closing the barn door’ on them would be called fascism. Google January 6th if you’re confused.
Ah, I see the confusion, allow me to explain;
a 365 day voter is one who pushes for better politics every day of the year, a one-day-every-four-years voter is one who only shows up on election day and does fuck all the rest of the time.
The barn door for fuckery would be politicians getting to run carte-blanche on policy positions without pushback because the one-day-every-four-years voter didn’t show up except for the day of the election and now has to choose between the options already selected for them by the time they wake up.
Fascism happens when the fascists are 365 day voters and the non-fascists are One-day-every-four-years voters.
If only there was an international body charged with prosecuting international crimes, and if there was such a body, thank God it’s Biden in the white house and not Trump, who would surely obstruct bringing justice and pressure to the Isreali leaders conducting the war crimes.
I’m just going to leave this link here for you… Hopefully you’ll have the good sense to delete this comment once you see how incredibly wrong you are. Biden is doing - TODAY - the thing you were afraid Trump might possibly do next year.
Biden administration signals it will support push to hit ICC with sanctions
Not for nothing but that was exactly what I was referring to
That funding is the leverage we have over Israel. Fully halting it eliminates that leverage, and then what?
If you’re not willing to halt, or even reduce, it, it’s not leverage anymore; you’re just being a doormat.
So, like,
- Still do exactly as the “don’t vote” stooges say and let the fascists win
- But now also join them in posting anti-Democratic memes to actively aid the fascists
More like:
- Still do exactly as a democracy demands of you and exercise your political freedom
- but now also use your political freedom to demand your government represent your interests, instead of ignoring them
You could do both. Keep the fascists out and actively pressure the Democratic Party to move left. These memes don’t do that though.
Idk, I think pushing to move the party left and working within the bounds of the party positions are kind of mutually exclusive, right?
Like as an example, if I thought we should all have pineapple on pizza, but the party position was to have mushrooms instead, I would need to vocalize that desire for pineapple somehow, right? I would at least say, “hey, I don’t want mushrooms on my pizza. Could we do pineapple instead?”.
I don’t think quietly accepting the mushrooms is at all compatible with pushing for pineapple.
Um, no? You can vote and push for change at the same time.
Imagine half of the people in the room wants shrimp pizza, which you happen to detest. Yet you’re exclusively dunking on and shouting at the mushroom group to keep it shut and stop suggesting mushrooms. Well?
dunking on and shouting at the mushroom group to keep it shut and stop suggesting mushrooms.
I find it concerning that I no can no longer tell which group is supposed to be the one telling the other to shut up about the toppings
I know you’ve got a ban but, hopefully you can see this.
I find it concerning that I no can no longer tell which group is supposed to be the one telling the other to shut up about the toppings
This is actually a rather good reflection of the reality, though maybe not the way that you intend. Anti-electoralism, accelerationism, and right-wing politcs, by the data on outcomes are equivalent. It is hard to tell, at this time, whether an individual supporting the former two is genuinely a believer, a state actor, or other political operative.
You vote for the candidate that is more likely to entertain your interests. By allowing the one less likely to listen, you are harming yourself.
It’s not the politically engaged voters you need to worry about, it’s the undecided and infrequent voters you should be panicking about
demand your government represent your interests, instead of ignoring them
Is that what you think will happen? You think Biden is watching memes? Or is it more likely that only normal people will see it because you’re not a lobbyist?
Interesting outlook. If you REALLY wanted to change things you’d be posting the phone numbers of congresspeople who voted for aid to Israel. The president doesn’t create the aid packages any more than he reads your memes.
Biden is certainly being advised on his campaign outlook, yes
The idea that memes ‘pressure’ people to vote is kinda funny but the idea that memes pressure politicians to be less evil is knee-slapping hilarious.
TIL commercials directed at kids are meant to pressure the kids to drive the themselves to the store and purchase their own lucky charms.
Parent-child is a pretty laughable analogy for politician-public. But memes are kind of like little tantrums so I guess meme harder and maybe some politician will put a binky in your mouth ;)
Maybe it’s a silly analogy. Maybe i’m a baby. Maybe i’ll get a binky in my mouth.
Maybe i’ve forgotten my point.
No wait, now I remember: maybe if I show lemmings that their little echochamber isn’t as bulletproof as they thought, they’ll realize they can’t count on people just holding their noses and voting for their genocidal candidate in November. Maybe then they’ll stop fucking around and actually do some political organizing.
You’re changing the world one lemmy meme at a time! I’m so proud of you!
Everybody memes, no one quits!
Because the lesser evil isn’t reading Lemmy, but lots of people on Lemmy can vote? If you’re using social media to organize in a way that will have real visibility, then more power to you. But if you think memes on Lemmy are going to influence the White House, I’ve got some bad news for you.
Lots of people on lemmy are also real people with real voices though, right?..
I mean even a non-person bot could propagate memes on other platforms if the owners of those bots were so motivated
I see few better ways to push for change than by agitating a bunch of people out of complicity.
I see few better ways to push for change than by agitating a bunch of people out of complicity.
I suppose that doesn’t include the complicity of inaction in the face of fascism.
It certainly includes fascism, especially the fascism the US is actively supporting.
Doing both. The POTUS doesn’t read Lemmy and go “haha these fools are gonna vote for me, I don’t gotta change shit”. To the extent you can influence that office at all, you can do it while simultaneously urging people to vote for the lesser evil.
340 million americans probably don’t read lemmy either, wouldn’t that mean urging people on lemmy to vote for the lesser evil is also ineffectual?
It probably is, but 52k DAU’s isn’t nothing. That’s more than you can reach by phone banking.
I imagine the value is also that those people will talk to other people, right?
Building a movement one voter at a time? Does that sound right?
I’m positive that Joe Biden is aware of all your memes 😂
You dumbasses think memes are affecting Global policy?
As much as shaming people into voting for Biden on lemmy is at affecting voting patterns, probably
So you’re saying you’re a dumbass on two levels then?
You think politicians use lemmy?
You think parents buy their kids lucky charms because they were persuaded by the lucky charms Leprechaun?
No that’s why lucky charms are is marketed to kids …like memes are marketed to voters
Now you’re getting it
I think he was mocking your logic.
Most politicians don’t have a ton of time to cruise internet backwaters filled with people talking about nuking hemispheres.
Lmao, and I was mocking him
Most parents don’t have a lot of time to watch children’s shows playing cereal commercials
Single issue voters are low information and suck to talk to. I’ve seen zero interest in any other topic from the anti Biden crowd.
Removed by mod
I’m sure he reads them
