Since Laura has been awol for a few months, I reached out to Ada to see if I could take over modding for this com. I know we’re fairly small but decently active so there’s not much to worry about, but I like the com so here we are.

I’m not planning on changing up anything as the banner/icon/desc all fit the vibes so they stay as is. (Maybe I’ll change the desc a bit since Laura originally wrote it in first person? idk)

If Laura comes back I’ll let her know the situation and we’ll go from there.

Love y’all!

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    10 months ago

    I think as a suggestion it might be a good idea to either replace the icon with one that isn’t of a femboy or change the description/rules to be more accepting, respectful, and acknowledge femboys and GNC poeple better.

    I’ve seen a couple posts here which can be quite invalidating to Femboys and GNC people, and I know it wasn’t the posters’ intentions but I also know that things that unintentionally invalidate can hurt people. I know that it’s not really popular to respect femboys (and some people in the community think they aren’t worthy of respect) but if this community really is open to all I think it’s a good idea.

    The biggest issue is with posts that imply or state that acting or looking or wanting these things makes you a girl, that can be quite hurtful to GNC people, Non-binaries, and especially transmascs because many of these people do not identify as girls, and some might even be AFAB and such calling or telling them they should be a girl can make them dysphoric and is unintentionally transphobic to the AFAB ones.

    I feel like to have a healthy community these issues need to be addressed, on !egg_irl@reddit.com they didn’t and many toxic instances of egging and transphobia have occurred because of it. I’m aware this community tends to have a harsher outlook in some cases that can come off as self-hating:

    Warning: I have a tendency to post things that may at times come from a self-hating perspective or things that are funny coming from another queer person.

    The thing I’m talking about doesn’t necessarily relate to that, as the content I’m discussing makes implications about GNC people that are harmful broadly, and actually can be more hurtful coming from a queer person than an ordinary Non-queer bigot. I.e. Saying or implying an AFAB transmasc femboy is just a girl/transfem in-denial. I get that this isn’t something that many people think of, but if the community truly is open for all, as it claims:

    This space will always be a safe place for transfems, non-binary people and anybody else in the LGBT Community to come together

    Maybe this should be thought about a bit more.

    • good_girlOP
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      10 months ago

      Definitely something to think about, thanks for this.

      You’re very right about astolfo, tho some people headcanon them as some flavor of trans or NB, their image has definitely been set in stone by most people.

      I know that it’s not really popular to respect femboys

      I genuinely have no clue where you got this idea.

      In regards to the posts that may invalidate AFAB, NB, or GNC users:

      Keep in mind that this com is named femcel memes, and problematic naming origins aside (female incel has roots in gender essentialism) the implication of every post here is that the viewer and poster is a woman or woman adjacent. I understand the want for posts that aren’t invalidating towards non-transfem or cisfem users (/r/traa was rife with this discourse), but I don’t think this is the right comm for that.

      EDIT: I worded my point badly, but reading it over I realize that this is actually kinda shitty, so instead let’s see what we can do!

      HOWEVER- if enough users want to change that and open this com up to both girlfailures and boyfailures, I’m entirely for that as I don’t see any immediate issues with it.

      I will go over the desc again and figure out what new icon to go with. (maybe some kind of poll would help? I’ll think it over)

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        10 months ago

        I know that it’s not really popular to respect femboys

        I genuinely have no clue where you got this idea.

        I kind of explained it badly, but from a lot of what I’ve seen online in mainstream media a lot of communities either tend to Egg femboys really bad and say they’re trans girls in-denial, or will say that Femboys are harmful or appropriate trans people. One negative comment stuck out to me in a conversation around Felix Argyle: “The only people upset about other people claiming Ferris-chan is a girl are cis [gay slur removed] who think it’s hot for a boy to dress as a girl.” It definitely doesn’t feel right to me because I know it isn’t true but I wasn’t (and still am not) entirely sure that this wasn’t the mindset of most common people. That’s why I said it wasn’t really popular, I’ve gotten an idea that a lot of people don’t think that. I do not think that Femboys are objects to be fetishized and I feel that like anyone their identities should be respected, but for a while (and this probably continues on Reddit) it seemed like other people didn’t think that.

        EDIT: I worded my point badly, but reading it over I realize that this is actually kinda shitty, so instead let’s see what we can do!

        HOWEVER- if enough users want to change that and open this com up to both girlfailures and boyfailures, I’m entirely for that as I don’t see any immediate issues with it.

        I will go over the desc again and figure out what new icon to go with. (maybe some kind of poll would help? I’ll think it over)

        I think a poll would be a good idea.

        • good_girlOP
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          10 months ago

          “The only people upset about other people claiming Ferris-chan is a girl are cis [gay slur removed] who think it’s hot for a boy to dress as a girl.”

          TBH felix/ferris is kind of a weird case bcuz the anime keeps him unambiguously cis and the books have trans subtext, but the person who said that quote is clearly a POS.

          I do not think that Femboys are objects to be fetishized and I feel that like anyone their identities should be respected, but for a while (and this probably continues on Reddit) it seemed like other people didn’t think that.

          Honestly yeah, nobody should be looking for acceptance from fetishizers.

          Objectification =/= Acceptance.

          I’ll write up a poll soon.

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            10 months ago

            TBH felix/ferris is kind of a weird case bcuz the anime keeps him unambiguously cis and the books have trans subtext

            What do you mean by that exactly? I never really read the books so I’m not sure. Like do they up and say he is trans or is it an interpretation thing where people think he’s trans? Just curious because I know in Egg culture there’s the idea that if people do or say certain things it makes them trans regardless of how they identify. I don’t agree with that idea at all, I think that the way people identify is what makes or breaks gender identity, having provisions to semantically invalidate a person’s identity doesn’t feel right at all and isn’t considerate to how the person feels.

            I did watch a video which covered some of the things and gave his take on it from his perspective as a femboy but I’m not sure how complete it was, and it was 2 years old when I watched it, and I’m not 100% sure it covered everything since people say there’s apparently a lot of stuff there.

            • good_girlOP
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              10 months ago

              What do you mean by that exactly? I never really read the books so I’m not sure. Like do they up and say he is trans or is it an interpretation thing where people think he’s trans?

              It’s up to interpretation because the author borrowed from the trans experience either knowingly or coincidentally, so felix/ferris ends up feeling trans-coded.

              images below

              Taken from here: https://transgirlmedia.wordpress.com/2018/05/28/felix-argyle-ferris-rezero/


              Just curious because I know in Egg culture there’s the idea that if people do or say certain things it makes them trans regardless of how they identify. I don’t agree with that idea at all, I think that the way people identify is what makes or breaks gender identity, having provisions to semantically invalidate a person’s identity doesn’t feel right at all and isn’t considerate to how the person feels.

              That’s a very fair point when applied to real humans, but I don’t think people should put so much stock in fictional characters when the femboy and closeted trans girl experience are very similar. But even I know for a fact the opposite reaction to GNC feminine expressions (for example, bridget being confirmed as a trans girl and the desperate attempt to claim otherwise by a certain group of terminally online weebs) can be very aggravating, so you’re in good company.

              This isn’t overly relevant to the point, but… in her book Whipping Girl, Julia Serano even goes so far as to say that the two gender identities face very similar forms of discrimination because of oppositional sexism.

              Note: the passages below contain some old and outdated language that may be seen as slurs today. I promise this is merely because of how language used to describe the trans experience has changed.

              I'm picking a few parts of this chapter, but if you want to read it on your own (i highly recommend you do, it's a very good perspective), it's chapter 17 "Crossdressing: Demystifying Femininity and Rethinking 'Male Privilege'"

              MTF spectrum crossdressers (who will be referred to simply as “crossdressers” for rest of this essay) are relentlessly mischaracterized and disrespected by the public at large, as well as in specific fields such as psychiatry and gender studies, where their practices are coldly dissected and critiqued by those who are not crossdressers themselves. This lack of personal experience allows these clinicians and academics to naively and conveniently assign motives to crossdressers. Some of the more common of these assumptions are that crossdressing is a form of appropriating or objectifying womanhood; that it is an expression of latent homosexuality, exhibitionism, autogynephilia, or some other form of “sexually deviant” behavior; or that some males take refuge in femininity because they are unable or unwilling to live up to masculine ideals. As someone who identified as a crossdresser for twelve years, and who has shared many intimate conversations with other crossdressers during that time, I offer this essay as a (hopefully) more enlightened and thoughtful perspective on the MTF crossdressing experience.

              The explanations I offer here stem directly from my personal experiences as a crossdresser—one who has since gone on to identify and live as a woman—so it is likely that what I have to say will not resonate with all crossdressers, particularly those who happily embrace that identity throughout their lives without transitioning. My purpose here is not to insinuate that all crossdressers are transsexuals-in-waiting, nor is it to project my individual experience onto other people’s very different gendered experiences. This should simply be seen as my personal take on this very complex and misunderstood identity.

              Note: the use of effemimania here is defined by her as “this obsession and anxiety over male expressions of femininity”

              This feeling, that a boy must hide female or feminine gender inclinations, helps explain why many MTF spectrum children and teenagers channel those inclinations into very specific and private occasions, unlike their FTM spectrum counterparts, who typically express their masculine interests and mannerisms in an open and regular way. In other words, effemimania drives many MTF spectrum children and teens to develop strict divisions between “boy-mode” (i.e., public) and “girl-mode” (i.e., private).

              Such distinctions often persist well into adulthood and are typically considered to be a hallmark of the crossdresser identity. However, it would be an oversimplification to claim that crossdressing is simply a form of hiding one’s feminine side or remaining closeted. After all, many crossdressers continue to maintain their split male/female personas long after they come out publicly as crossdressers. To fully understand the boy-mode/girl-mode dichotomy and the fascination surrounding women’s clothing that typifies the MTF crossdressing experience, we must first take into account how the marginalization of women in our society affects those who are raised male.

              It’s not just that MTF spectrum folks need feminism, but that feminism needs to embrace MTF experiences and perspectives. The fact that the lion’s share of the anti-trans sentiment specifically targets those of us on the MTF spectrum indicates that we are marked, not for failing to conform to gender norms per se but because we “choose” to be female and/or feminine. For feminism to ignore the society-wide effemimania and trans-misogyny we face is to allow one of the most pervasive forms of traditional sexism to go unchecked. Indeed, for feminists to continue to dismiss effemimania solely because it targets those who are male-bodied is particularly shortsighted. After all, as previously mentioned, much of the sexist behavior exhibited by cissexual men arises directly out of their being forced to disavow and mystify femininity from an early age. In this respect, MTF spectrum folks can provide feminism with crucial insight into the workings of effemimania and offer strategies to potentially challenge it. Additionally, those of us who transition to female can provide firsthand accounts of the very different ways that women and men are treated in the world—a perspective that is especially relevant today given how common it is for people to naively claim that we as a society have transcended sexism and moved into a “postfeminist” era. But perhaps most of all, what MTF spectrum trans people can offer feminism is a very different and far more empowering perspective on femininity. Over the years, many feminists have argued that femininity undermines women, or that it’s purposefully designed to subordinate women to men.

              Such a view no doubt stems from the experiences of those women who have felt that the expectation of femininity has been forced upon them against their will. But those of us on the MTF spectrum who have had the reciprocal experience—of inexplicably being inclined or compelled to express femininity that we were taught to avoid or repress—cannot so easily dismiss femininity as an artifice whose sole purpose is to devalue and disempower women. Because we come to embrace our own femininity for ourselves rather than to appease others, we are able to appreciate the many ways in which femininity can be freeing and empowering for those who gravitate toward it on their own.

              Many of us reject all of the inferior meanings and connotations that others project onto femininity—that it is weak, artificial, frivolous, demure, and passive—because for us, there has been no act more bold and daring than embracing our own femininity. In a world that is awash in antifeminine sentiment, we understand that embracing and empowering femininity can potentially be one of the most transformative and revolutionary acts imaginable.

    • pixeltree
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      10 months ago

      Honestly, there’s only been like 2 posts that’ve made me uncomfy from the “femboys just haven’t gotten their egg cracked” angle, ofc there’s more people to worry about that just me but I thought I’d pop my perspective in here. I don’t think it’s a big issue in this community, and while it might be nice to have something about it in the sidebar, I don’t think anything will really change because it wasn’t really a problem in the first place. It’s almost commonplace in egg_irl, but that’s honestly to be expected given the subject matter of that community. When I say that, I mean not outright disrespectful stuff is almost common place, like no one there is ranting about how femboys are invalid, it’s just a community focused on realizing they’re trans, the memes are going to be about being trans and not realizing/being in denial. Those posts can make me uncomfy even though they’re not targeted at me, and that’s not the posters fault. Sorry, got off topic on a tangent there. Anyways imo there’s very little invalidating stuff posted here and while it might be nice to have an official word or two about it in the sidebar I don’t think it’s a big deal if there isn’t.

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        10 months ago

        I know here it’s not a huge issue, the thing is, Egging is an issue which is rarely if ever addressed, and if it is, it usually isn’t at the sources of it, typically it’s addressed in the femboy communities. I think it’s important for us, all of us to recognize how it can be hurtful, so we think more about it before doing or saying things that could make GNC people uncomfortable or invalidated.

        I can fully understand how memes can feel validating to one group and I respect that. I just feel it’s important to be careful not to be invalidating at the same time. One person’s happiness and validation should not come at the cost of another person’s happiness and validation.

        • pixeltree
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          10 months ago

          Gotcha! Yeah I wasn’t saying it shouldn’t be something that gets addressed, moreso just sharing my happiness at the current state of the community

    • pixeltree
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      10 months ago

      Although I think I may have enjoyed some posts that others could see as invalidating, namely “the straight male urge to look like this” posts, cause they’re unironically relatable to me

      • First Majestic Comet
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        10 months ago

        I can see how it would, I can also see how the meme on its own could in and of itself be validating to the femboy experience. Since you know, it is actually true to a degree since there are femboys who want boobs and to be pretty, the problem is that the second interpretation, the implied invalidates them, and I think it’s important to make sure people are aware of that. It’s not just the memes themselves but the comments that follow afterwards. Obviously bad people are going to comment maliciously, but good people should know or be made aware of the potential to be hurtful, towards a group they might not even be aware of.