I had a goth friend who would always get laid without much trouble. At some point he got a normal job and had to “become a normie”, and I learned that it wasn’t because he was a goth, it was because he was a complete asshole with women, and some women, for some reason, can’t resist assholes.
When you say things like “some women can’t resist assholes” it sounds like red pill rhetoric. A better way to say it might be like “some assholes prey on women’s insecurities”. Keep the focus on the person who is the problem, not the victims.
A better way to say it might be like “some assholes prey on women’s insecurities”. Keep the focus on the person who is the problem, not the victims.
idk I think that’s needlessly condescending to women, not all of them dating assholes are victims, some just like assholes because they like asshole behavior because they’re also an asshole.
This also takes away agency from people. In fact, I am sure that there would be a way to diagnose every single relationship ever as a form of abuse in which someone takes advantage of someone else’s something.
Adults are responsible for their choices, and particularly in the case of “assholes”, that is often associated with being assertive, dismissive and some people just like that kind of “I am the main character” features. Maybe there are even some deep rooted evolutionary reasons for that, I don’t know. Anyway, painting anything as victim-oppressor dichotomy IMHO is nonsense.
I keep the focus where I want, that doesn’t change the asshole-victim situation, and I won’t save anyone if I change the wording.
Obviously you can do what you want, you have free will.
How about:
Many men, and women, and every other kind of human, often mistake confidence and decisiveness … for competence, reliability, trustworthiness, responsibility.
…
This is by no means totally specific to a sex or gender, it applies broadly, in all kinds of social situations, business relationships, etc, between all kinds of genders and sexes.
This innappropriate or overweighted heuristic tendency also tends to lessen with age, as people gain first hand experience and knowledge that this heruistic, this intuition, this assumption… is actually often not accurate.
…
Anybody with decent charisma, which a huge component of is an above average, but not overwhelming level of outwardly displayed confidence, stands a better chance at convincing most people of basically anything, intentionally or unintentionally.
Lots of overly confident people bulldoze into a situation, legitimately believing they were well equipped to handle it in an ethical way, only later to realize… oh, I am in way over my head, I fucked up.
Lots of overly confident people also just know they are full of shit, and intentionally bulldoze through, and then either gaslight about how they did nothing wrong, or just fucking vanish.
This again works beyond just interpersonal romantic relationships:
For every bonafide grifter con artist (crypto for dudes, cosmetics MLMs for gals), there is a well intentioned new boss or manager who basically accidentally fucks up the entire department out of inexperience and hubris…
And both of those are often aided by their natural, above average levels of confidence and charisma.
I’m fine saying “many people prey on other people’s insecurities.” I am not “making this about gender.” I was mirroring the genders I was replying to.
But you mirrored both the genders and the way responsibility flows.
Some men and women are assholes who prey on the inexperienced, some men and women are naturally more confident than most, and give others a false impression, mostly or entirely unintentionally.
You don’t seem to accept that some people can accidentally lead people on without actually trying to do that, that one person’s obvious flirting can be another person’s just trying to be friendly, that one person can never explicitly say that ‘this is a committed, serious relationship’, and another person can hear that anyway.
If you think I’m mirroring everything the other person said, why are you criticizing my words instead of theirs?
It’s not just preying on their insecurities. Everyone has insecurities, but not everyone will let you into their pants just for calling them a worthless piece of shit or something. The women in question must have some deeper issues. Because I also have a friend who demonstrated to me how you can just go on Tinder and write horrible shit to women and get surprisingly good results.
That’s just a loop like how people ask which came first… hen or egg
It’s not entirely unjustified or wrong though. Women are awful.
Women are awful.
💀
Can confirm.
I’ve let several women do my make up and they’re always super enthusiastic that I’m down for that.
It’s SO hot. A man in touch with that side of himself is sexxxxxxxy.
I want someone else to do make up for me but none of my friends know how to do make up ~~~ ): not a single one between the men and women and non binary
It’s hard to learn but with some practice it’s not that bad
Of course girl with a goth profile picture and spiders in her name thinks goth style is hot.
In the meanwhile my bald head and nike sweatpants attract eastern european girls like a lamp with moths. You catch what you fish for.Imagine if you wore a full track suit
That’s only for ceremonies
Try to complete your Gopnik style with a few items more.
You’d become unstoppable if you started walking while slav squatting.
Prince will steal your girl, then steal her clothes, then steal someone else’s girl in those clothes
I - a bloke - sometimes paint my nails. If they’re still painted when I go to work you can guarantee I’ll get a few comments from guys questioning whether they “should be worried” around me*. Meanwhile, the few women who work there think it’s wonderful and have offered to do them properly for me. _ *they needn’t be worried. My standards aren’t that low
When guys ask if they should be worried around you, do they expect women to be worried around them?
Yes. And women should be worried around them.
I’d be outright ostracised, casted out, spat on if I showed up with painted nails/eye shadow to work here in England
I’m also in England, though in the South, where we’re all soft fairies.
And yeah, the response can be annoying, but the way I see it, I’m a gobby, fat, mostly-straight cis guy who’s married to a woman, so the abuse I might receive is nothing compared to some others. So if I can go any way at all towards helping to normalise something as benign as painted nails on a straight man, then I will.
It depends so much on regional norms.
Out on the West Coast of the US, painted nails on men is very common, while usually an indicator of an “alt” lifestyle or a particular attachment to fashion, it’s not entirely uncommon to see a dude in a suit with black nails and might only get a few passing comments like “Wow, you pull that off!” or “Haha, how does your wife feel about you using her cosmetics?” at worst.
But if you move East by one state boundary you literally might get cussed out or glanced at like a predator or worse, depending on how deep you go into small town mormon communities and the like.
I have thought long and hard about what would go into a mainstream, masculine nail-painting style that would actually catch on and be popular and add something to most men’s style, and not just young, waifish catboys with narrow hips, but would also benefit Carl down in accounting. (Rusty metal? Lumberjack plaid? little dicks painted on each?) And after that mental exercise I realized two things.
1 - Nothing we do as a species makes any sense and our attachment to social norms is never, ever going away.
2 - Gendered expression that isn’t just hanging a sign around your neck with an arrow pointing to your genitals is utter nonsense also. Why do so many people associate painted vestigial claws with femininity? If you paint your dog’s nails in a color you or others will start viewing your dog through gendered lenses. We are a silly creature.
Why give so many fucks about style? Who cares what anyone thinks right? Shouldn’t we all just dress comfortably and quit worrying about appearances? Focus on what matters? Meaning of course, our personalities and our humanity. People always wanna act like how we appear somehow matters. I hate vanity, which is why I dress plainly, rock a plain haircut, and don’t “express” myself through visuals even though I would “get more pussy” if I catered to society’s expectations. Instead I let my principles and morals shine through my actions, which actually have an impact on the world.
While nothing you said is incorrect from your own personal views and desires, avoiding fashion or stylistic expression is as much your own paradigm as someone who does choose to wear certain things or express themselves in certain ways. IE: choosing no style is also a style. You simply cannot escape self-expression unless you are utterly alone on an island, and it could be argued that even then self-expression will be valuable for preserving your sense of self.
Self expression and creating identity is just a human thing that we’re never going to get away from, nor should we unless we’re ready to like… become absorbed by some kind of hive-mind. We are social creatures, we literally can die without social identity.
So, Ricky Nightshade?
The problem is most average looking men, when bedecked in goth shit, look like Bluey got run over by a Spencer’s truck.
The dude in everyone’s imagination wearing black makeup and jewelry looks like a strung-out rockstar with don’t-give-a-fuck vibes who lives for adventure and wild nights. The vast majority of ACTUAL men have the body-shape of a rectangle and have to spend most of every day waiting in lines, attending Zoom calls, explaining to customers why their wifi doesn’t work (Reset the router Ethel, no that’s not a router, you’re holding an egg steamer.)
We gotta abandon the idea that people have “looks” at all times. Lets repopularize costume parties so guys get a chance to try to dress-up without it being some kind of shocking change to their entire persona. I had a stiff, straight-edge boss who attended a Halloween party and went goth. Completely unrecognizable, he was a legend.
I’m trying to get back to rectangle, I passed on to deflated beachball…
It could be worse, you could be me, an inflated beachball on a stick.
Lets repopularize costume parties so guys get a chance to try to dress-up
Yeah but isn’t that what women do when “going out”? Makup and clothes that create a different look and style?. Maybe call it “persona”, like “my social persona is male harajuku” (lol)
Yeah but isn’t that what women do when “going out”?
Yah but it still doesn’t give men in particular the pass to experiment, to try new identities or personal expressions. I may be mistaken, but I think this was the origin of the “fancy dress party” before Halloween co-opted the idea and made it so trying out a new a “fancy outfit” is now dressing up in cheap plastic masks of stereotypes.
Yeah, you can’t wear the same thing every single day unless it blends in with everybody else.
Back when I was a young, gay goth, one of my closest friends talked me into going out swapping wardrobes. He was(and still is) very handsome, but he is one of those preppy gay guys.
I hate the fact that our Polaroids of that night got lost. It was such fun, and although I didn’t recognize myself in the mirror, it felt amazing, being a different version of myself for a night. And he felt so free, not having to worry about his hair and looks for the night, wearing comfortable, scuffed to hell boots, instead of his traditional suede shoes.
YES.
Jeffrey! This better not awaken anything in me.
bi_irl
You look at Jeff in that ep and tell me you wouldn’t and i’ll call you a filthy liar
Way to share your kink, sis. Mines biting people with brains. Everyone’s unique.
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It’s concerning that you had to clarify with brains
Well I like to bite. And I like smart people. Maybe I am a zombie lmao.
It’s the only kink I have. Nikki Sixx is clearly not a great person, but put him in some high heels and eye blacking, and I’ll drop trou.
I love it. Metalheads get me with their long hair at times.
This depends on the guy. Some can pull it off, others can’t. I’m one of those who can’t. If I put on make up, I wouldn’t look goth, I would look like a serial killer lol
It’s not so much about looking “goth” but learning how to augment whatever natural attractiveness you’ve got and demonstrating a level of self-assuredness and self-awareness. Knowing what works for you is part of that.
“Goth” just happens to be a very bold and somewhat easier style to look decent. A more “nude” look is, counterintuitively, pretty difficult but there’s almost no masculine individuals who wouldn’t benefit from it.
That’s very well put.
Does anyone have resources they’d like to share to that end? For absolute beginners for very subtle men’s makeup.I have nothing “for men” specifically but there’s a million and a half tutorials on how to use primer, concealer and foundation. So long as you don’t start doing any contouring it should all be pretty gender agnostic.
Embrace that look and go juggalo!
What is a juggalo?
Oh, he gets butt nekkid.
Been winking at the freaks all day and nothing happened.
You’re missing the 2 litre where it counts, fam.
Faygo addicts.
The number 3 cultural export of Michigan
like furries but instead of oversexed animal people it’s trailer trash clowns
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“Why so serious?”
People should do what they are comfortable with, but yes, if a guy wants to attract women, this is definitely a way to get what he wants.
I was part of the alternative scene and I also thought the goth-boy aesthetic was very attractive. All the girls did. To me, the most attractive thing a man could do to his appearance was to let his hair grow long. Like past the shoulders long.
Didn’t have to put on make up and jewelry. Just have long hair and you could be fat or skinny, pretty or ugly. Didn’t fucking matter. I’d look. If Henry Cavill walked down the street next to a nerdy guy with long hair, I would look at the nerd everytime. If he wore band t-shirts and military boots, it was game over. Only way a guy could fuck it up for himself with me was if he started the nice guy routine or was so socially awkward he couldn’t talk to a girl. I have experienced both. The latter was a full date where the guy didn’t say a word to me once and I was the one who had walked 20 km to get to his place because he had social anxiety and couldn’t leave his home. Poor guy. I hope he’s doing better today.
When I was young I had so many hairstyles. I did ponytails, I did muffin-tops, I did mullets, I even did cornrows once. Having hair was fun.
The last time I grew my hair out I realized I was starting to look like Michael Bolton and chopped it off and donated it. Been shaved ever since. Growing up happens.
Yeah, if it gets to the point where the hair starts thinning that intensely, it’s better to just shave it off and bald is pretty awesome too! Don’t get me wrong. I was more so speaking from the vantage point of me and several of my female friends when we were teenagers and early 20s women. I’m neck deep into my 30s atm and at this point, looks matters very little. My boyfriend has very short hair and hasn’t worn band shirts for almost two decades but he’s still a total snack to me.
Unrelated to anything, but I just find this funny because I have had to talk to so, so many young men as an older guy who has done mentorship/coaching.
I’m neck deep into my 30s atm and at this point, looks matters very little. My boyfriend has very short hair and hasn’t worn band shirts for almost two decades but he’s still a total snack to me.
You and a hundred million women in their 30’s will repeat this sentiment all day every day. But the moment one ditzy college-age girl says on twitter that she prefers tall guys who wear expensive watches, suddenly an army of incels is born as that one take gets sent all the way to the top of every social media feed and carves out an entire new political movement.
Yeah. People like to be victims. It gives you a out of jail free card to not work on yourself if the world is against you. Doesn’t matter how true or false that is. If you want to find an excuse to not try and to victimize yourself at the same time, there is no limit.
There is sort of a sad poetic irony to the guys who value money and looks over anything substantial because they will spend all their time and energy on appearing rich and alpha and then they will bitch and moan when they can’t find a girl who loves them for them.
And saddest of all: they literally can’t see that all the things they hate women for are their very own values in life, projected onto the opposite sex.
Interesting input.
I guess it’s a cultural thing, over here you’d instantly get labeled a social outcast or a gangster.
Where are you from? :D I’m Danish and here, being a long haired guy with band t-shirts mostly translates to “dude probably works in tech and is a massive nerd”
Nah, but the Harley biker is certainly a gay look
thank rob halford for bringing that look to the masses
Metal is my religion,
And Judas is my Priest.
Ah yes, the leather daddy BDSM iconic gay “look” that these totally hetero men who go on long trips together to scenic areas without women, and with vibrations the whole way to excite the twig and berries, and a nice massage to relax the rear end.
Bigger stretch than professional wrestling, but not much.
God fearing, homosexual hating trailer park kids don’t realize that watching two oiled up men in spandex is… well, pretty fucking gay. Not meant to be disparaging, I just mean the only things missing are penetration and a money shot.
the money shot is when they get color aka bleed. then it gets exciting
I don’t know where I heard it but I think the sound of a Harley V-twin engine sounds a lot like a throaty man voice shouting
BROTHER BROTHER BROTHER BROTHER LOOK HOW GAY I’M NOT BROTHER BROTHER BROTHER BROTHER
On second thought I think I heard it from a canadian redneck madman on youtube. ZipTies&BiasPlies
wasnt that a joke on south park? or did they do a different joke making fun of the same thing?
Very similar joke for sure, maybe I combined the two in my head
Guys: I want a goth girl with big boobs
Also guys: ew goth. GAY!
They just love goths.
Female goths: double attractive
Male goths: questions sexuality
What about enby goths?
Opposites often attract wildly.
A lot of really “standard” guys who dress in polos and jeans will look at a girl in a black leather schoolgirl outfit and see mystery, sexual freedom, experimentation, and all the dangers that mother warned you about. It represents an escape from social chains and it’s not just a sexual kink, but it can really feel nice to imagine having someone who challenges your preconceived notions or gets you “out of your shell” because a lot of men have no idea how to do that and fantasize about meeting someone who drags them by the arm through life to get them to enjoy things they’d be afraid to try on their own.
Speaking as a man who’s partner has filled this role for many, many years.
Do you have any idea how much pussy you can get wearing this shit?
I’d say an average of two divorced house wives, one assistant school teacher, one confused undergrad and half a random barrista per year.
Which half of the barista do you get
Just the ass
I’m fine with that
Killin it
Well, that’s not exactly nothing, though it may not be the something you want.
Can confirm.
Well minus the ring. Can’t even imagine dusting that off again.
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Eyes on your own work there super chief.
McMurray’s a piece of shit
My life is a series of unintentional Letterkenny references
I should probably watch it at this point
Pitter patter!
Every single McMurray is a hawtie. That one scene with him in his speedo got me swooning.
Where’s my pants preacher?
I DO COCAINE!
been low key wanting to do Egyptian pharaoh shit for years but I work blue collar in hick country and don’t dare until I can move out of the states
I was in Atlanta for the 2000 New Years celebration and I randomly bought a red and yellow zoot suit to wear, with matching shoes. I have NEVER IN MY LIFE gotten more attention from women than that night.
bawler as hell tbh
“bawler”?
Bawler is to baller as dawg is to dog.
Touché. I’ll accept it.
Did you have a riot? Did you throw back a bottle of beer?
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bro I’m talking about queer-stomping throw Matt Shepard into the fence and kill him, country. the only way that’s going is to a bad time. I like your idea, I’m just not trying it here
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unfortunately no. I’m already on thin ice for being autistic, that’s basically 2 degrees removed from a gay but with shiftier eyes.
but I like the pharaoh Mike thing. pray that I get out of here and get to try it 🙏
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Nah, explanations make you the weirdo, embracing the weird makes you a local legend. Build a pyramid around your mailbox. Get a hairless cat. Learn your favored Egyptian (coptic is discouraged as it looks Greek and outlasted the pharonic age).
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You should start practicing for when you can, 'cause doing liner is hard! Also, you gotta figure out what works on your face. My point is, try.
good point ☝️
Ah the full Pharoah works best there or in a smallish city. You just become the local Pharoah. Just gotta learn to say stuff like “kꜣn.f ḥm.t” when people ask questions
The Danes, thanks to their habit to comb their hair every day, to bathe every Saturday, to change their garments often, and set off their persons by many such frivolous devices. In this manner, they laid siege to the virtue of the married women, and persuaded the daughters even of the nobles to be their concubines.”
Nike dudes even starting to get the monk haircut.
