With surveys reporting that an increasing number of young men are subscribing to these beliefs, the number of women finding that their partners share the misogynistic views espoused by the likes of Andrew Tate is also on the rise. Research from anti-fascism organisation Hope Not Hate, which polled about 2,000 people across the UK aged 16 to 24, discovered that 41% of young men support Tate versus just 12% of young women.
“Numbers are growing, with wives worried about their husbands and partners becoming radicalised,” says Nigel Bromage, a reformed neo-Nazi who is now the director of Exit Hate Trust, a charity that helps people who want to leave the far right.
“Wives or partners become really worried about the impact on their family, especially those with young children, as they fear they will be influenced by extremism and racism.”
Just use a manometer.
Toxic masculinity, feeding itself, empowered by the forces of capital who desires culture war above class war.
I love just saying “toxic masculinity” anywhere online, even if you’re deep in the bowels of Lemmy, you will get a few reactionary turds who just see the term and lose all cognitive ability to think and mash the downvote button between heated breaths and tears streaming down their faces.
edit: and it continues, very predictable. Seriously guys, just be honest if the term makes you feel shit, you will find truth by pursuing those feelings and the questions around them, literally you will figure out why you’re actually unhappy. Don’t pull back, push through. Yes, I am provoking, and if it’s provocation that has an effect on you, that’s a HUGE sign that you can figure out a big truth about yourself and the world if you spend like, 30 minutes in uncomfortable silence asking yourself “why” about things and being painfully honest in your replies until you hit bedrock.
God damit this sentence makes me want to blow my brains out. It’s too fucking thick in bullshit. You ever notice how the right will just call someone a pedo or gang member and that really works. It’s not like they go " he’s just socioeconomic poverty based victim of modern prison system" like just get to that point. Andrew is a grown man who targets children.
That’s… Their point? Either you misread what they said or you wrote your response wrong.
In the old days when you disappeared into a cult, you physically went to live with them and everything.
These days it’s “cult to go.” Good luck intervening and cutting off their link to the cult when the cult is speaking to them from their pocket.
I miss those days, they’d go be weird on their own and not drag the rest of us into this crap
Its the Boisphere. No men are involved.
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Maybe they’re gay
EDIT: and won’t admit it so they overcompensate
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Andrew Tate is absolutely the sort of guy that would shoot Kevin Spacey in American Beauty
Isn’t shooting Kevin spacey a good thing?
Lol imagine downvoting the shooting of a serial abuser.
Haha right? He’s a pedo
I’ve known men who were kind, gentle boys but were forced into ‘tough boy’ roles by either their parents or their peers/bullies. They become angry and violent and everyone around them never understood how it happened.
That’s what I meant. Apologies if that wasn’t obvious
There’s nothing wrong with being repressed, there’s something wrong with taking it out on others in a negative way.
Nuh uh, fuck that sweety, that’s some straight boy shit for sure.
Yeah as a lesbian I’ve seen gay boy misogyny and this ain’t it
I have a cousin who was really obnoxious and macho. Then he came out of the closet and dropped all that shit. When people can’t be their authentic selves, they tend to lash out in strange ways. Homophobia was drilled into my cousin at a young age so it was really hard for him to accept who he is.
What I mean is maybe they’re gay and unable to admit it so they overcompensate.
The Patriarchy has always been homoerotic. Even society’s choice of male sex symbols, the Hemsworth type, was made by men. Turns out what women actually like is scrawny Koreans.
Back in my day when I was living on the street we called them volcels. And by back in my day I mean a few years ago, and by the street I mean discord.
“Do you regularly watch videos by Jordan Peterson?” kinda needs to become one of those before-first-date screening questions.
either that or: ben shapiro, or joe roegan videos.
Does UFC count as watching Joe Rogan videos even if his commentary annoys the shit out of you and you wish he had no part in it? Because he already pisses me off this would be the last straw.
I groan every time they announce he’s on the commentary team. It’s clear he doesn’t actively watch the sport anymore, and he simply can’t avoid hyperbole.
Seriously, I have learned to ignore him so well that last time he was not on the team it took me half the fight to realize "Where is that annoying fucking Rogan has he really not said shit this whole fii… oooohhh sweet. lol
Weirdly, I know of more women who listen to joe rogan than men (okay, the numbers are 2 to 0, so not that mindblowing). I don’t fucking get it.
It was the same thing with friends who liked Elon Musk before he went fully mask off after buying Twitter. Who he was, and the function he provided, was so completely obvious to anyone who was paying attention. I don’t get how anyone could miss it.
People missed it because they chose to “not pay attention to politics”, leading to right wing indoctrination.
Turns out everything is political.
Very direct. They could lie about it. Better to ask conceptually I think.
Ask about Lex Fridman: at least for tech geeks it is the antichamber to Joe Rogan and the pandemonium thereafter.
Ok. Tell me about Lex Fridman. I’ve never read that name before.
I believe him to be of Russian descent, and playing hard on the American stereotype of that.
He has had a troubled academic career due to a faulty paper trying to prove Tesla’s Autopilot to make people more attentive.
He has a long standing podcast in which he interviews mostly techbros and politicians such as Musk, Carmack, Trump, Modi and the like for hours at a time. He never really challenges them and lets them speak on whatever they bring up, turning his podcasts into hours-long PR stunts.
Probably a Russian asset, given that in this comment to his conversation with Zelensky he reiterated Trump/Vance talking points.
I have noticed that people who later reveal themselves to be into Joe Rogan and the like first test the waters by asking you if you listened to the latest Fridman podcast. I work in a tech consultancy so I have quite a sample, but it could also be a bubble.
Andrew Rousso made a spot on imitation of the guy here, as usual. It’s worth listening to a Lex Fridman podcast intro just to enjoy Rousso’s imitation.
Hol’up is Carmack a manosphere weirdo?
Not really into the manosphere I think, but he is definitely a tech solutionist.
I’d also like to know. Carmack, unlike most tech bros, is actually intelligent. I wouldn’t have taken him to be a Nazi, especially since one of the games that made him rich was about killing Nazis.
I don’t think he is a Nazi, but if you think that is what would save you from being a Nazi, you haven’t been following the last 80 years of developments in Palestine.
You needs to screen your partners SoMe algorithm
12% of young women support Tate? That’s way higher than what I expected :( I can’t understand why would any woman support someone who makes a fortune out of exploiting and abusing women openly
Tradwife content is on the rise for women as well, more and more young people are buying into this mythical simpler past as the world gets more complex, alienating and difficult.
I can understand that but how come being a webcam girl and endure physical and psychological abuse fit in the “tradwife” narrative? It’s particularly support for Tate what I can’t understand
I think this is ambigous. When people are asked “do you support the views of Andrew Tate?” How many actually know these in particular? What if individual views are asked and then if more than 50% are answered with “support” it is considered to support his views overall?
I’ve read enough news to know that Tate is a terrible person and probably a serious criminal. But i would not be able to describe his views, nor do i want to find out what his views are exactly.
Here are three of the research pieces the article uses …
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/07/24/plugged-in-tate-misogyny-2/
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/07/24/plugged-in-tate-religion/
I looked at the one for mysoginy
One in four of the young people who have heard of Tate have a favourable opinion of him, but there is a clear gender divide: only 12% of female respondents have a positive view, compared to 41% of young men.
We asked young people what they liked about Tate. The top three reasons overall are: “He’s not afraid to push back against ‘woke’ ideology” (24%), “He wants men to be real men” (22%) and “He tells it how it is” (20%). Although it is commonly thought that Tate’s opulent lifestyle, cars and fitness are an entrypoint through which young people become interested in his content, admiration for lifestyle (14%) and humour (11%) do not rank as highly. This suggests that the main pull of Andrew Tate for young people is his hateful activism.
That said, younger Tate supporters aged 16-17 and female respondents are more likely to admire his lifestyle, at 20% and 18% respectively. Putting Tate’s motivational and fitness content within a wider context of his divisiveness and hatefulness, as well as signposting other figures who produce similar lifestyle content without the underlying misogyny, could be an important step in combating his influence on younger, female audiences.
I think the source provides a nuanced picture and offer suggestions how to combat his influence that got lost in the short notion in the guardian article.
The raw numbers maybe obscure this but aren’t the popularity levels are really about how far along the radicalisation they are?
People start watching for the lifestyle and fitness then end up believing the other stuff and watching for that. I guess women stall out more because who could believe that kind of stuff about themselves?
Tate’s motivational and fitness content
Speaking of, let me present to you the anti-Tate
All I know about Tate’s views are that he’s a male supremacist of some sort.
And rapist, human trafficker, scammer, etc etc etc.
Scumbucket for short.
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Fair enough, so there is a possibility that this article (or the surveys it’s based on) are being somewhat misleading. I hope you are right
mythical simple past but they wouldn’t put down the fucking phone. anything but the phone!!
(regardless of gender)
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Sorry if a dumb question but what is a “tradwife”? (Not a native speaker)
It is a shortening of “Traditional wife” as in a wife who complies with the old male/female value system. IE the man works and provides for and protects the family while the woman stays at home, cooks, cleans the house, watches the kids, does not talk back to her man because he is the head of the family and runs shit. Her job basically is to make life easier for him and raise his kids.
Almost every survey will get 6-10% of people answering yes to the most extreme or batshit crazy option, no matter what.
Probably the main reason is that people are pissed off that they are being approached by survey takers and punish the survey for revenge.
And there are some batshit crazy people out there.
The Lizardman Constant.
And then there are elections.
Same mindset.
These would be the “pick me’s” whether they realize it or not
Women who are raised by misogynists but can’t see past it. Women who have insecurities and can’t see past it. They are latching on to the same order for security cuz it’s all they know. Just a guess
I once sat next to a couple on the plane and the young woman was showing her bf a video of Tate talking about how men should be stoic and never complain because no one wants to hear that pussy bullshit. She was saying things to him like “You know how you freak out and bitch at me? You should be like him.”
So yeah… there are women out there who like him. They like hardcore traditional gender roles, is probably the base of it, and want a man doing cliche man shit like Tate preaches. Some women are dealt a great hand by traditional standards: big tits, blond hair, nice face, and they would rather settle into being provided for than fuss with all that feminism stuff. It’s idiotic but people believe whatever’s in their interests. And surprise surprise, these women don’t want men to have emotional needs.
Please tell me that was before it was well known that he was a criminal
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Im in a bubble where these guys are like the most laughable parody of themselves so maybe I’m biased but… I mean nobody is taking this kind of stuff serious right? I mean cool, free speech and such but dumb behavior had consequences, right?
They definitely are, more and more, it’s the same as every popular movement. They pad the propaganda with legitimately good advice and some controversial but easily supportable facts. That makes the more controversial items easier to swallow.
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Just based on what I see women doing around me all the time, there were probably some warning signs. Looking for a dude that’s “traditional” or whatever is asking for a dude that’s going to see you like a form of livestock. It’s partly a politics thing, but largely an assholes thing.
41% of young men support Tate versus just 12% of young women.
WTF those are both shockingly high.
I support Tate…
…Being locked in prison for the rest of his life.
But first I would really like him to receive a serious public ass-beating, recorded for posterity. I feel like that would be worse for him than the prison time.
There isn’t anything wrong with a traditional worldview but it certainly doesn’t fit most modern relationships. Either way I think all young men go through an idiot phase where it’s easier to complain about the systems in place then to be introspective and improve yourself. I’m saying most people usually go through a redpill phase and if they are able to sympathize then it’s usually a short phase. The bigger worry for me is that it seems a larger and larger amount of men are unable to sympathize with others.
Depends what you mean by “traditional worldview”. I’ll go ahead and say young earth creationism shows a lack of openness to objective reality when it’s not personally convenient.
In the context I mean, what gets justified with tradition is behavior like putting on a fake persona when dating, pushing boundaries, disregarding the rights of strangers around them and generally being an entitled, eventually controlling dickwad. They’ll say that’s what men have always done, and boys will be boys or whatever, but I’m certain nobody had to “twist their arm”.
When I see one of those dudes dragging a girl around, I have to wonder if she’s chasing a kink. That’s not how you go about it, if so. 50 Shades of Grey was fiction.
I want to say that’s a young person thing but I’m not really sure. I know the world would be a much better place if say Alan Watts was a household name instead of Andrew Tate.
I had to look it up, but it sounds like he was a new age/counterculture personality. I don’t really see the connection.
The bigger worry for me is that it seems a larger and larger amount of men are unable to sympathize with others.
Not unable, unwilling. It requires them to be ‘weak’ and concede that they may be part of the problem. I say this as a man that had to work through some of this shit when I was young.
I agree on the “weak” part, being able to empathize with orders requires that you be able to admit your own faults, but I think empathy is actually a high-intellect ability. It’s deeper than being just uninformed.
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No one said that.
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No. We’re saying you should look inward and address your own short-comings and poor behaviors before looking to blame external sources for your issues. No one is saying anything about what men should listen to.
No one implied that.
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There’s green-tea smelling book clubs too if that’s more their speed, but a lot of people think raves are fun. Same for the pasties; they’re an option, but it sounds like hipsters in a version of full Victorian dress are just as much of a thing. The central fact being that they get a choice.
The various cultures around the world have many, often contradicting versions of traditionalism. My own tells a good story about women having “respect”, but it’s a version of respect that doesn’t require much from men.
Listen to a random country song. There’s a party with cheap beer, where the women are just potential bedpost notches, but the protagonist goes to church on Sunday and feigns piousness, so they still get to be One of the Holy Ones™. A girl’s dad shows up and defends her “honour”, but it’s implied he did the exact same shit when he was young, and at no point are her preferences considered at all. The song ends with a thinly veiled plug for the pickup truck company sponsoring the artist.
It’s easy to see why dudes who hew to that are just looking for a way to justify how shitty they always were, underneath it all. Because in practice I see that all the time, living where I do.
Occasionally my partner does or says some things that remind me of the “manosphere” aka 4chan neckbeards.
And when it happens, we talk about it. I don’t pretend or let it go as “he doesn’t mean it” or “he doesn’t know what he’s saying”. I don’t get mad and he doesn’t get mad. We have an adult discussion and I’m careful not to talk down to him.
A perfect example was that he sometimes says “females” when he means “women”. I explain that it’s not a swear word but it’s still derogatory. I explain why. Once I did, he understood and stopped doing it.
It doesn’t have to be a big deal! Communication is key!
i don’t know how could anyone watch Star Trek DS9 and still call women “females” like a Ferengi
Funny you say that! He doesn’t do it anymore but I just sent him this meme from !tenforward@lemmy.world!
serious answer: by consistently running and reading experiments that refer to male and female patients.
I try my best, but if I’ve read three-four papers in a day about a topic and all of them use male and female, probably gonna accidentally say female.
As long as you also made sure that if he does say it again he has to pronounce it like tamales
I laughed at this and now I’m going to do that in my head whenever I see that word
Communication is key
Sure, but honestly it sounds tiring if this kind of discussion is a recurring thing.
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Agreed! But for me it’s not all that often, luckily.
Good luck with that. A red flag is a red flag.
I appreciate that he is willing to learn and grow. We all make mistakes. If you understand why it’s offensive and keep doing it, yeah red flag.
I think the ability to change with new information is admirable.
It is admirable and increasingly rare.
I’m sure this person really appreciates this warning about a person that they know and you don’t
It’s similar to how I appreciate your reply.
So, are you agreeing that your first comment was useless or that the comment you’re replying to isn’t? Can’t have it both ways.
I think it depends on how often they’re coming up with dubious takes, and how often there are repeats.
Like if you have to explain that gay people are just trying to live life, and that’s fixing misinformation they got as a youth, fine. Good, even. But if you have that talk and then have to have to again a month later because they “forgot” or picked up more bad ideas? Concerning.
Friend of a friend was always getting talks to patch up his dicey world view, but then he’d go back to the same YouTube or shitty friends and come back two weeks later with a fresh batch of bad ideas. Really have to get to the root of the problem
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No. Stop treating people like livestock.
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You can go fuck yourself dude, trans women are women. For all social and identity purposes they are female.
Isn’t tate already old news for the manosphere?
there was plenty of warning signs for Years, even before the pandemic. if you look at how pickup artist operate, and then go on youtube. Tate isnt even a new phenemon, hes a culmination of the above problems. hes just the latest symptom, as was JOE ROGAN.
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Yeah but in the olden days they were on a print ad in the back of Popular Mechanics, not the leading talk show in the nation.
Spoilers: there were signs
Yeah, they just didn’t pay attention to their partner. Which, not making excuses, is a good part of how they slip there.
Sometimes it’s easier to stay with the devil you know than chance the devil you don’t.
You don’t need to stay with a devil at all.
Some women are apparently terrified of being single. I’ve known some who have never been single for more than a few days since they turned 15 or something. I know it can sometimes be more complicated than that, but it’s a contributing factor.
I would argue that being single equates to being alone … and women who are alone are vulnerable as hell.
So (at least sometimes) the devil you know is safer than the devil you don’t.
I’d argue that women who are in abusive relationships or relationships with potential manosphere abusers are less safe than if they were single.
I know one woman who, from her 60s to her 80s, lived in a building that she co-owned with two good friends. Each one had her own full apartment. But, they were able to support each-other. I also know plenty of younger women who have roommates.
I don’t think being single necessarily means being alone. Although, it’s true that modern western society makes the coupling up option much more low-friction than other ones.
Yeah I don’t really understand this claim.
My partner and I disagree on a lot of things, but I can predict with near certainty where she stands on things because she my partner, we have shared a life together, and I know her.
When I date people, I don’t allow myself to go forward without completing a mutual background check. I ask questions and talk about politics, tell about situations I’ve encountered and listen attentively.
I want to know about the other person’s world views, decision-making and problem-solving methods - and to inform them about my own. I want to know how they tell apart truth from a lie, what they think about state and centralization, wealth and poverty, science and religion, civil rights and minorities - and to inform them about what I think, so they could make informed decisions.
Ironically, I don’t wish to know what party they vote for - because the selection is shitty and I laugh about my own past choices. :)
Recalling situations where world views mismatched - I’ve had to part ways with one person because she was too spiritual. Two people subscribed to odd conspiracy theories. One person’s goals in life warned me about excessive self-interest and lack of care about others.
P.S.
Trying to switch perspective and step into the shoes of a woman, I think it can be a warning sign if the other person gives excessive gifts or feels “obligated to take care” - one should inquire about the reason. I would also be wary of people who eagerly accept me as the new centerpoint of their life - it might indicate an obsessive tendency and severe symptoms if the relation should break. If the other person exhibited jealousy about friends or controlling behaviour, that would be a definite warning sign to me.
P.P.S.
As for social media, yes, it can corrupt people’s perception of reality. How to pull them out of the bog, no idea. As for how to avoid them getting there: no algorithmically steered social media.
gives excessive gifts
Huge red flag. Becomes a tool of control (I was married into a wealthy family.)
The big thing is that they can change their personality after marriage - once you are trapped. There were red flags there, which I shouldn’t have ignored, but it was like night and day.
Mine started getting interested in stuff like religion - noticed that his pastor friend got to play WoW all day while the wife basically did everything.
I think it’s a good strategy but it’s not fool proof. They’ll tell you what you want to hear and then slowly start pushing your boundaries. Or they’ll pretend to be one way only to get what they want out of you.
Sure, but I don’t think it’s meant to be foolproof, it sounds like a great way to start
How to pull them out of the bog, no idea.
For my part I’ve just confessed my ignorance of what’s going on on the commercial web, and shared with them the kinds of conversations I’m have on the non-commercial parts (fedi, email, chats, smol web, etc), which are usually nicer and more productive.
Although to certain extent I still consider this here a form a social media… and I’m not actually sure that it’s good for us past a certain number of people. It might be “more cacophony than community” to quote one of Matthew Graybosch’s blog posts.
It is better here than on the mainstream social medias, though. That’s for sure for sure.
EDIT anyway, that’s a total aside. I just couldn’t help picking up that one thread. Good comment. I love your approach.
It’s surprising to me that married people are falling for this shit. I thought it was just incels desperate for anything that might give them a chance or an excuse.
it isn’t about being single, its about the modern hell world instilling extreme helplessness in vulnerable people, and they seek any answers whatsoever. the manosphere happily provides ‘answers’ in exchange for money
It has also seeped into every aspect of male culture. You want to watch a YouTube show about cars? Sure. The first couple episodes are normal and then they start sliding in dumb shit.
You listen to a podcast about working out? Same thing goes. It’s little stuff here and there. Sometimes it starts as a reoccurring joke, but it keeps happening until they actually believe.
I also find there are a lot of young people who aren’t comfortable on computers and basically believe whatever they see on the internet, much like an older generation.
Yeah, I was enjoying some videos about dumb Steven Seagal movies, but then I realized that every single one would have jokes about women being bad drivers, being overly emotional, etc. At first I took it as a humorous way to look at Seagal’s misogyny, but then it became apparent that it was being applied in other cases where it didn’t make sense. It was subtle, in the context of the rest of the videos, but a definitely present part was the manosphere mentality.
I opened a new YouTube account and watched some videogame videos. Rust if you’re curious. I’m a woman and this game is played by mostly men. At some point my husband was struggling with his mental health, we were in gridlock so I tried to look up male perspective mental health videos to see if i could understand him better or reach him in a new way.
Those two searches alone, unlocked a flood of bullshit into my feed. I couldnt believe the garbage I was bombarded with.
It is akin to how women are pummeled with beauty ads and standards (buy this to be pretty!) since we are young.
They figured out how to market this same insecurity to men. Wild stuff
Edit: except they aren’t just selling “self care” like they do to us, they’re selling hate-
There are people at my work place that I thought that I got along with and then all of a sudden they come out with the most bigoted things that I have ever heard. I straight up do not trust any man my age at this point there are just too many of them that are “hiding their powerlevel”
There are actors building influence who benefit by more males being this way. They target ladies too, but in different ways. They are determined and focused.
