Neat. I wish I could do that. I tried several years ago when I actually had some money because I saw this coming. Nobody wanted disabled people then, and less so Americans now.
People wouldn’t listen back then, when I was called hyperbolic and alarmist, and good fucking luck leaving now. People think leaving is easy – it’s not. We’re stuck in this shit show.
Can’t fix it, can’t leave. Going down with the ship. Fuck everyone who voted to kill me. I will not survive this administration. I’ll probably die within the year because, though I worked my ass off in IT since the 90s, I had to burn through my savings by being weak enough to get sick. *I already have to choose between food and medicine, so I mostly don’t eat. I’ll just stop buying medicine.
So fuck me, I deserve to die now. There’s no escape. There’s no hope.
I just want to say i live in a safe area kinda and have room if you want to survive next 4 years in a progressive state in the middle of the woods but near jobs.
That’s very kind of you, thanks, truly.
I am lucky I live on the border of a blue state. If I got to bug out, then I can.
Is the blue state Canada?
If you haven’t left yet how do you know you will be able to? You take for granted your freedom. I don’t think allowing you to move will be in the cards eventually.
You’ll be able to move between states until civil war is declared.
Get it while it’s hot.
Mutual support like that is what’s going to make the world a better place, keep it up, it’s just what the world needs right now
For the small chance that you have german ancestors, you can claim back their citizenship if they suffered under the nazi regime
EDIT: see end of comment
If you have any traceable Italian citizenship it is possible to claim Italian citizenship. Even like great-great-great-great-grandparents. But there’s a lot of asterisks involved. There are offices that specialize in this that might help (for a fee).
But if you DO qualify and get all the paperwork and get an appointment and approved, you get full citizenship immediately. Italy always considered you a citizen since birth but did not know about you.
EDIT:
Italy put a stop to this like, a few days ago. Damn. Now it’s maximum grandparents. https://www.imidaily.com/europe/italy-adopts-decree-restricting-citizenship-by-descent/
Should’ve figured with all the anti-immigrant sentiment this would be ending soon.
It has 60 days to be approved by parliament and there’s a lot of squawking about it being unconstitutional by immigration attorneys. As gross as it is, the more nationalist fucks are also against it for fairly racist reasons. They can’t stand the idea of Muslims getting citizenship before anyone else 🤮
I’m hoping if it does pass, it’ll still leave a route to citizenship for Italian descendants. We were literally getting ready to file when this dropped.
I missed my window for Irish citizenship by decent, was literally asking my grandma to do her ICD but they changed it before she did it, but my grandad was first generation born here. I gotta look into this now
Good luck! If your granddad was Italian and you need any help getting the required supporting documentation, I know a great genealogist.
I wouldn’t mind the contact, in case this bill is not passed in Italian parliament!
Sure thing. It’s Tara Pellegrino from mypassporttoitaly.com . Good luck!
Yuppers, gonna look into it on my own first and see what I can get from my grandad 🫡 thank you
wish that were true if you had Dutch ancestors. My maternal Grandfather immigrated with his parents when he was a little boy and came through Ellis Island. I’ve tried looking before, but from what I could, that wouldn’t qualify me for Dutch citizenship, sadly. Otherwise, I’d probably jump at it.
You might be able to get permanent residence first and then apply for citizenship. I recall meeting a Canadian in Amsterdam who did that.
Welsh, Scottish, Danish, exclusively. It’s funny, because one side came here in the early 1600s and was the first person to get capital punishment in this country (tried to sell the Bronck’s Farm, was hanged ‘til nearly dead, ear cut off, then banished to New Jersey), then another was Postmaster General and Secretary of the Interior – heritage is weird. And it doesn’t always pass on, no matter what these purists think.
You don’t inherit value, you create it.
e: to the DMers/downvoters:
And this guy (my great uncle, grandpa’s brother)
banished to New Jersey
That’s almost as bad as being banished to Detroit.
My German ancestors came here in the 1840s. That’s too far back for me lmao.
Yeah it’s really hard. Most won’t qualify.
If you’re a skilled researcher or tenured professor you have a better shot but it will still not be easy.
Most Americans have absolutely no clue how involved the immigration process actually is. Unless you have specific skills, have immediate family in the country you’re going, or are loaded… 95 times out of 100 you’re not going anywhere.
Although where there’s a will there’s a way. You get a tourist visa, overstay, marry a local.
I’m glad I’m a dual citizen with money stashed away in both the US and the country I was born. If shit gets too bad in the US, I can lay low elsewhere while things calm down.
Yep… and if you managed to pass the initial barriers of immigration, but have elderly parents that you’re concerned about, there’s 0 chance they’re getting into the country you were allowed into unless they’re already loaded. That’s the only way for the elderly.
just remember that you become the most dangerous and powerful when you have nothing left to lose.
Lilly I’m so sorry this is happening and as a disabled woman, I get it. We’re bottom of the ladder, and nobody cares. Feel free to lean on the sisterhood in !WomensStuff@lazysoci.al we really do get it… it’s not much but its all I have to offer you.
Thank you. I really appreciate your support, and I hope you’re weathering this as best as possible.
Np we need to look out for each other right now
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Never thought I would see a flood of Americans refugees coming to Canada to escape a tyrannical government…
I guess that’s what you get when you elect a criminal with dementia as president.
Really? People have been talking about it since the Bush administration. Until now things hadn’t gotten bad enough for people to actually do it in large numbers, but people saying that if the Republicans win they’d move to Canada has been repeated so often over the decades that it became a bit of a joke.
Trump 2.0 is WAY worse than any Bush.
Without the crucial steps the W Bush admin took, there would be no Trump. It’s not that Trump isn’t worse but they are part of the same fascist movement, just further developed.
We are talking people fleeing the USA for their lives. This is Trump phenomena as he is demonizing and literally going after dissenters.
I know, but it’s the “never thought” part that I’m disputing. People have been thinking of this situation for a long time.
Agree - if people were thinking it before, now they are DOING.
Remember when we thought Bush was bad? God I’d love to have him instead
I can’t believe GWB = good old days now. My how we’ve fallen
I mean… There was that whole Vietnam draft thing in the 60s/70s…
Getting close to Handmaid’s Tale every day.
Must be nice to be able to leave
scientists are usually the first target of when a dictator takes power, they often leave before shit hits the fan. then it goes to POC, and then lgbtq+, and then non-loyalists.
Controlling the universities is for control of information.
The Nazis could easily burn down the Institute of Sex Research and all it contents. Today’s fascists cannot burn down the science on queer people and global warming.
Universities have smart people who can say “hey this is the way your economic policies are harming this group of people” or “being LGBT is a normal human variation” or “the American civil war was fought over slavery” or “here are characteristics that seem to be common to every incarnation of fascism, and how they all seem to be related to what’s happening now.”
The idiot arm attacks knowledge online with Alex Jones style “information warfare” - just repeating insane falsehoods over and over again. Never playing defense, always flooding the web with lies and half truths. This is also why fascists love AI so much. (How much time do people waste arguing with bots? And the amount of bots makes these ideas seem more “normal” and common then they are…)
Guy in the article isn’t a scientist.
He’s quite literally a political scientist… social sciences are science too.
If we all go in on a boat we can invade Ireland
They can’t stop us all
Seriously. I wonder why European countries aren’t massively jumping on this opportunity. Like every developed country, the nations of Europe need immigrants to prop up their demographics. Most of Europe’s immigrants have been coming from countries in the global South. And while such immigrants have done well for the nations of Europe, there will always be less friction in bringing in immigrants from countries of more similar culture. Fuck any racists who hate Muslims. But the cold truth is it’s probably a lot easier to integrate large numbers of politically liberal Americans into European countries than it is to integrate immigrants from Muslim countries. European countries desperately need immigration, but right wing politics is on the rise, in large part due to the frictions of immigration. Obviously American and European cultures are not the same; there are still very real cultural differences. But European vs. American culture is far closer than many other cultural pairings out there.
European countries do have some very limited ancestry-based immigration policies. But they usually only go back a generation or two. If your parent or grandparent immigrated from a European country to the US, you can get easy immigration in a lot of EU countries. But for most Americans of European descent, that immigration happened generations ago.
If the EU countries were clever right now, they could take advantage of this opportunity to bring in large numbers of disaffected Americans. They could offer relocation assistance, make it cheap and easy for educated American progressives to pack their bags and jump the pond. And in exchange they get workers in their economies they don’t have to train to educate, and immigrants who would assimilate quite readily into the existing cultural milieu.
Hell, personally, I’m a typical American in that I have a hodgepodge of European ancestry. But my ancestors came over before 1900, there’s nowhere in Europe I qualify for immigration based on ancestry. But if one of the countries my ancestors came from wanted to made it cheap and easy for me to return to the old country, I would jump on that.
Hell, the politics of it sell itself. Bill it politically as “bringing the European diaspora home.”
But the cold truth is it’s probably a lot easier to integrate large numbers of politically liberal Americans into European countries than it is to integrate immigrants from Muslim countries
I genuinely don’t think it makes a big difference for like 99% of immigrants. The process is pretty much the same. Gotta find work, a home and learn the language. The cultural friction you mentioned mostly affects the immigrants themselves rather than society as a whole.
Plus there are already ways for Americans to move here, especially skilled workers. There are some hurdles of course but it’s doable. Don’t really see why we should make it any easier except for potential refugees like Latin Americans and queer people.
At an individual level you are right. But this is more an issue with numbers. Immigrants do not just bring themselves; they also bring their culture. Think of it this way. Let’s say Germany decides to bring over a million politically disaffected American progressives. How many mosques do you think those million people will want to build in their new home? Maybe one or two, there will be some Muslims in that group. But most of those million won’t even be religious. And most of those that are will just help fill the pews of half-empty German churches. There won’t be a titanic shift in the German religious landscape from these million American immigrants.
Immigration starts having issues not at the individual level, but the societal level. Too many immigrants too quickly, and people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The slower assimilation happens, the more people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The more culturally different the immigrant population is from the native population, and the more people feel like their culture is being replaced. And the more people feel like their culture is being replaced, the more they start voting for hard right parties like AfD.
There’s nothing wrong with Muslims or with people building mosques. But I mention mosques because they are a highly visible symbol of immigrant populations with very different cultures, a symbol that right wing politicians gleefully exploit.
If Germany brings over a million disaffected Americans, what culturally disruptive things will they bring? I guess Germany will get some more McDonalds franchises and a few other American brands? But those million Americans really aren’t going to stir things up too much. It’s not like you’re going to let the Americans bring their guns with them. They’ll have to leave those behind. And the big gun nuts aren’t likely to take Germany up on its immigration offer in the first place.
And just due to genetics, give it a generation or two, and you won’t even able to tell who is descended from those immigrants without checking ancestry records. The first generation will be noticeably American, but the second, third, or fourth? Indistinguishable from the native German population. Completely assimilated.
Funny there was a town/region in Norway (i think, it’s been a long time) that had proposed such a plan. I thought it was Ringke or somesuch, but it came off as really racist, like the “we only want the white ones back” sort of thing. Not sure what became of it.
Yeah it’s a political tight rope. And you definitely wouldn’t want to put in place any kind of horrific race or skin color requirements. You don’t want some nightmare Nazi-esque racial fraction rule. Literally just, “did you have an ancestor from this country? Ok, you can come here.” And yeah, if Norway decides to do that, then there will be some black Americans who happen to have some Norwegian ancestors who want to move there. And you have to be OK with that. There aren’t millions of pure-blooded Norwegian Americans sitting around in the US eagerly waiting their chance to return to the homeland. There are instead people like myself. I have ancestors from all over Western Europe. The single biggest chunk of my ancestry is Norwegian, but that piece is still only like 1/4 of my ancestors. I have ancestors from Norway, Germany, France, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and bunch of places I don’t even know about. For all intents and purposes, my ancestry is just “generic white American.” American was once called “the great melting pot” for a reason.
It’s a political tight rope. There’s a good argument to be made for it from a purely practical perspective. If immigrants are needed, why not recruit immigrants from countries that are most similar to yours culturally? Sure, Norway and the US aren’t as similar as Norway and Denmark. But there aren’t tons of Danish immigrants just waiting for a chance to move to Norway. And while not the same, Norway and the US are a hell of a lot more similar than Norway and Afghanistan are.
If Norway imports 100,000 disaffected politically liberal Americans, how many mosques do you think those new immigrants are going to want to build there? Most probably won’t even be religious, and most of those that are will just help fill the pews of the already half-empty Norwegian churches. There’s nothing wrong with building mosques. But again, we’re talking about cultural friction here. Too much change too quick, and people feel like their culture is being replaced, and they start voting for reactionary politicians. One population intrinsically causes less disruption in integration than another. And if you need immigrants, why not select from those immigrants that can most easily assimilate into the existing culture? Normally this is a moot point. There normally isn’t a potential reserve of millions of culturally-similar immigrants that European countries could draw upon. But right now, due to the political situation in the US, there actually are millions of such potential culturally-similar immigrants.
There’s a good practical argument, but it’s hard to make the case without making yourself sound like a militant racist.
I think this guy has a point. Wonder why he’s downvoted.
Unavoidable ethnostatist undertones. Sounds a bit like the Right of Return. Won’t solve cost of living problems for current residents.
It seems like the obvious solution is to use education and career experience to bring folks over that will support their economies. The side benefit will be relatively good cultural alignment. No need to bring race into this at all, just do the brain drain.
The goal will be to send Americans to die in war in Greenland and other countries through drafts. They will use American citizens to fight against the allied nations of World War Two. They will send you to die against your friends. Open your fucking eyes.
It’s really fucking difficult, but I’m grateful for the opportunity I have right now. For everyone’s sake I really hope the biue states wake up and realize that they’re not getting anything out of the Union
Well let me know if they need any resistance painters! I’d really like to get my family through this alive.
Excellent work!
I’d be afraid to announce it until I’m out
We’re definitely in show me your papers days
Seen this one yet?
no lol that’s insanely well done.
the 8bit FOX interview with Tucker Carlson felt incredibly on theme. you could seriously remake Papers, Please with these aesthetics.
Except now they just scan your retina from afar
Timothy Synder left for Canada too…
That’s two less canaries in the coalmine.
Canaries were taken into coal mines to warn the miners of poisionous gasses by dropping dead. When the canary metaphorically picks the lock on its metaphorical cage and literally makes a break for the border, I think you can consider that a sign of a similar magnitude.
I know this isn’t related to the article but I would love it as a fuck you to Trump if Canada started allowing political refugees from the states
My fear would be our MAGAts would lie tou you, claim they were never MAGA, get in, and start the same shit there.
they would have to scrub their entire social medias, they can barely work their iphones half the time.
Unfortunately they’re already here :(
One of them commented on requiring vaccine papers when coming into Canada. I told him to join his buddies down south.
Exactly
Just so you know, Canada’s version of the NSA actually hosted NSA staff or provided signal intelligence to US agencies so they could circumvent the “no spying on us citizens” part of many laws.
We do know how to profile people and have done it internally quite well for some time. Our blind spot is more international due to being the US lapdog. But that will change soon enough.
It’ll take a lot more than words and guns
A whole lot more than riches and muscle
The hands of the many must join as one
And together we’ll cross the river
Who gets to turn into the fire breathing t-rex?
I still sometimes go back and rewatch the edit for the SWTOR cutscene to that song
So good
Come to the Netherlands: https://dutchreview.com/expat/30-percent-ruling-netherlands/
Is there a path to an eu passport? Is there an age restriction?
There is no “EU” passport, only passports of countries in the EU. I’m pretty sure you have to be 18 to attempt to immigrate (although that doesn’t stop many teenagers from going for it by working under the table until they can get a legit job to sponsor them, and pls do not think I’m encouraging that!)
I’m welllllll over 18. Usually most socialized medicine countries are less interested in you the older you are.
We have two American families in our 'hood whose husbands/wives are well into their 40s (both moved because of the situation in the States, one has a non-binary child). So, looks like it can be done.
If you’re hot and willing to pay, I’ll marry you.
I’m frequently warm and already married but the Dutch are super progressive with all that right?
I’d love to but I honestly have no idea where to start. That 30 percent ruling is interesting.
Can someone share the text for those of us who don’t have 30 minutes to disable cookies on a broken UI
There are tons of articles in English about the 30% ruling just search for it. There are two official government sites, again in English, but they are kind of dry.
!lemmysilver
I’m a US American who has been considering expatriating, but its too expensive.
Can someone tell me if my passport gets pulled, do I not have to pay the expatriation tax on my net worth?
I’m positive they will tax you all the same
It is incredibly unlikely that the republicans pull passports. They are very much dependent on people to be placated and insist “it is just temporary and I am going to live my life”. Passports are owned/used by predominantly upper middle class families who are the most likely to try to ignore the republicans while bitching and moaning that somebody is being rude and protesting in front of a Starbucks. Take away their passports and now this impacts them rather than just “trump, biden, whatever. Groceries are still expensive and I am just going to live my life and go on vacation to Italy this year”.
Historically? Yes, fascist regimes do that. That is also incredibly ineffective. We are more likely to see the China/Russia model where political crimes become increasingly prevalent (see: attacking a tesla is terrorism). The other reason to pull passports is for draft purposes. And the US Military, for as massive as it is, is not one that can be run by drafted soldiers. But republicans are also fucking idiots so… we’ll see.
So… if you can get out, get the hell out.
Don’t need to pull passports when ICE can just pretend anyone they pick up doesn’t have one.
And dispose of it if someone actually is carrying it.
They already did pull the passports of transgender people. Clearly you’re not paying attention.
I was going to say the same thing. They started this back in January. Both taking the passports of people with an X gender identification on their passports as well as confiscating the legal documents of trans people attempting to renew their passports (birth certificates, social security cards, driver’s licenses, etc.).
“Papers please”
Naturalized citizens and trans people are definitely at the point of concern about passports being revoked
“it’s never going to happen” until it happens
How many “it’s incredibly unlikely the republicans do this” are we past now? Because it sure as hell is a ton
The “why” is important to understand.
“It won’t happen because it is illegal” or “it won’t happen because the military will save us” is patently stupid and an indicator that people aren’t paying attention.
“It probably won’t happen because it undermines their goals and the countries trump et al worships don’t do it” is actually assessing where their control comes from.
The danger with assuming everything bad will happen because it is bad is that you just give people “lines” that are easily avoided. Or quick ways to say “Oh, it isn’t THAT bad. They aren’t ACTUALLY setting babies on fire”
Are you willing to take that risk?
Because I wouldn’t
Though, hell, it’d already be too late for me, as I’m trans. Thankfully I don’t live in the US
The republicans are actively trying to erase and eradicate trans people. And, at the best of times, the democrats don’t care enough to fight. One of the most important things to understand is that your political party/affiliation probably doesn’t give a shit about you (a sadly not uniquely Asian American experience)
But there are countless “concessions” and horrors coming everyone’s way. So why fixate on something that is unlikely to happen and which all evidence points against? Even the attack on trans people was more about dead naming and causing emotional pain but the upper middle class (and above) trans folk were able to get revised passports pretty quick.
Because hurting trans folk? That is just ratings. Restricting the upper middle class? THAT is how you get people in the streets AND piss off news networks enough that they show it. Because that news anchor who is just keeping his head down? He has a vacation coming up.
Which is why:
So… if you can get out, get the hell out.
Please don’t give him ideas.
That’s dumb. If there’s ever a Hitler-level problem a reasonably fit guy like him can just cross through the woods into canada in several places. Stay and fight. Elon’s defeat in Wisconsin today shows that as lame as it sounds, voting does work. If you actually do it.
what do you mean “if there’s ever”? People are being blackbagged off the street in broad daylight by secret police and sent to torture prisons…
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Yeah but that’s not going to entrench Trump’s power since those people can’t vote. I’m talking about stuff like Jan 6, but successful. Cancelling elections, arresting opposition candidates, etc. Everything they’re doing now will come to an end after the next election.
What can someone like this do from the US that he couldn’t do from Canada?
Vote and legally fund candidates
Please tell me this user name and these comments are a bit.
Moving abroad is different to giving up citizenship and doesn’t remove your right to vote or fund candidates.
In a sense it is a bit, in that it encourages people to call me out for being wrong as here. And in this case, I admit I made an assumption that is unclear in hindsight, which was that the guy was leaving permanently.
This is foolish. People need to stay and fight, or go into hiding. A cushy, public position at a university in Canada won’t protect you if things go that far. Canada has little to no bargaining power against the US.
If they want you, they’ll get you one way or another.
only a fool would stay and fight, and get killed. did you even read any history books, germany before ww2 began, all the scientist fled, and then RUSSIA from cold war til now.
Then go hide if that’s what you think. My point is Canada is not much safer than the US.
Don’t forget to show you Covid vaccine card before you enter Canada
you wouldn’t know what freedom was if it slapped you in the face.
Hurr Durr don’t forget to show your driver’s license and insurance when you get pulled over. 🤡
Pathetic, maybe go join the fascists in the USA.
Good.
