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The US has been green-lighting genocide in the Middle East for decades. Party A only seems to notice when Party B takes over the White House. But this has been an ongoing horror story going back to Operation Ajax and the dismantling of the Egyptian democracy following the death of Gamal Nasser, largely through collaboration between the CIA, MI5, and the Mossad.
His base supporters don’t really know or care about the details, because they’re too invested in doing white nationalism at home. His opponents only seem to care about the genocide as far as it allows them to express racist sentiments toward Arab-Americans and other Muslim groups for being insufficiently enthusiastically liberal. His bourgeois supporters recognize genocide as a get-rich-quick scheme for their failsons and faildaughters.
This bloodshed won’t end before the western military occupiers are removed from the region. And I doubt I’ll see that happen in my lifetime.
When focusing on the Middle East, it isn’t a “Trump” issue… by only looking at the last 30 years, it becomes exceptionally obvious that it’s an American problem.
The ceasefire was the only positive thing going on during these past two months. This is fucked up!
as a moron, are you happy?
Do you think the ceasefire was a bad idea at the time?
i think the ceasefire was a good idea when the hostages were alive, 15 months ago, when Biden was president…not before "rump made sure no ceesefires would happen in defiance of the Logan act…now come back with something convincing
Oh so you’re just totally on board with the genocide and ethnic cleansing operation of 2 million people in Gaza now. Very cool and normal.
Oh so you’re just totally on board with the genocide and ethnic cleansing operation of 2 million people in Gaza now.
Like they weren’t on board then too.
is it good to be this extravagantly so stupid?
Does it feel good to talk shit from a Russian bunker? What are you even here for? Lol ur a funni guy.
i see the downvoters think "rumps handling of the situation is bettter
You’re whining about people who downvote genocide support.
I see you are the kind of person to say “the best time to start learning is five years ago, so I won’t start now”
I don’t care who gets bitchy over this;
America chose bald faced fascism and genocide, over the chance to end genocide and not-fascism.
Suck eggs, whenever you can save up for them. The stay-at-homes are just as guilty.
Sorry your blue team proto-fascists couldn’t contain their disgusting bloodthirst enough to win the election from the red team fascists. Think outside of this bullshit electoralist thinking for just a second.
I’ll vote so hard for the 3rd party next time! Just your wait and see
Read the last sentence again please
Lol. You people are so silly.
Sorry your favorite genocider lost. But hey At least you can find comfort in the fact the other genocider was worst.
Fucking loser
Now I’m just convinced you’re a Russian troll, fucking idiot Nazi
Of course you do. You idiots can’t comprehend foreigners are real people, so you Mccartying your way out of everybody disagreeing with you.
More proof that americans are inherently suppremacist
Your head is so far up your ass no wonder you don’t get it and just make stupid assumptions
Stupid Nazi
Trump sugar boy made a Sig heil on live TV, idiot. You’re the nazi
There was no chance to end genocide.
Yes there was: not voting red or blue
Well, that’s what happened and now you get extra genocide plus total capitulation to russia
Crazy that Americans couldn’t come up with a third, non-genocidal option.
If all third party voters swapped to Harris, she still would have lost. Vote shaming doesn’t work and it’s especially gross when it wouldn’t even matter.
What’s your plan to stop the genocide? Begging the parties behind it to stop it?
That was the false sense of superiority choice, not the end genocide choice.
You have to consider the choices’ actual effects on the world.
Making the correct choice has nothing to do with feeling better than others, it simply is the correct thing to do.
All those dead people thank you for making the “correct” choice.
If dead people had something to say i don’t think they would be happy about the parties that backed their genocide
Yeah man, do whatever you can to absolve your inaction. I bet they appreciate it. Because if Harris was president and this attack did not happen then I assume you’re pretty culpable. But hey- you “followed your conscience.” Great stuff.
I tell people to grow up all the time. Realize the world isn’t perfect but sometimes you gotta make dirty decisions to bring about the greater good. But you’d rather feel smug than give a shit and actually have to make a hard decision. Hopefully you’re just young and have time to grow. Honestly.
Voting is not going to be what ends the genocide.
probably not but breaking the red and blue duopoly can do some good.
That won’t be done through voting either. Do you think Republicans are going to let themselves lose ever again?
There’s a big amount of red voters unhappy with trump but that voted for him because in their eyes he’s “lesser evil” than blue and because “there’s no alternative”.
Once a third party gain enough traction to break the narrative that only red or blue can win it will be a landslide. In europe third parties wins all the time.
What I mean is that Republicans are going to do everything they can to stop or rig elections so they don’t have electoral consequences for Trump. Party organizing is going to need to take place outside of electoralism.
America chose bald faced fascism and genocide, over the chance to end genocide and not-fascism.
There was no chance under biden or harris that the genocide would end without running to completion. None. They’re both centrists, and genocide is the only policy I’ve never seen a centrist abandon.
Voted harris but refuse to carry water for genocide supporters.
Stopping the genocide was never a choice in the table with the red and blue party
I would like ANYONE to stick a camera into the face of these Arab and Muslim leaders who told their followers to help get trump elected because they didn’t think Joe Biden was acting fast enough or giving them the attention they wanted and ask them if their feelings are still hurt with news like this.
I’m sure the people of Gaza are so pleased with them and their stupidity
BuT dOn’T vOtE fOr GeNoCiDe JoE!!1!1! ThE PrIcE Of EgGS!1!1!
And the trump admin wants to build seaside resorts in the purged Gaza then told us to STFu about eggs while the price more than doubled.
There are far too many people on this earth who can only imagine black and white.
They can’t imagine you can have bad and you can have much worse and they are not the same thing.
Edit - in case the downvote wasn’t someone who voted trump to “save Palestine”, my point is you don’t save someone from bad by giving them worse. Which we did.
And not “voting for bad” while allowing worse is performative privilege.
I sure hope everyone who said “Genocide Joe” and “Kamala is a cop” sleeps well every night. Also those 100,000 Dem protest voters in Michigan.
You did it guys, you saved Gaza.
I’m sure those astroturfed, troll farm tools absolutely sleep fine.
How do you sleep knowing you voted for a genocider and still lost?
Well enjoy Trump and the complete destruction of Gaza. Hey you did it good job.
Hey you did it good job.
Tell you what, why dont you Dem centrists reply back and admit, right here right now, that genocide occurred on Bidens watch with his direct assistance and encouragement.
If you cant admit that, then you’re not communicating in good faith.
Well, I know that I did what I could to reduce the death toll, not my fault that idiots ruined it by grandstanding.
Lmao what did you do? Let me guess, you called your representative and asked them nicely to “stop genociding pwetty please but don’t worry I’m still gonna vote for you either way”
I looked at the two options that the Electoral College would allow and picked Harris because she was more capable of the concept of empathy than Trump.
I mean if my person won, segregation would still be illegal in Federal Contracts. So… there’s that.
The dems leadership sure showed empathy lmao
You suck
Aka as an American, you don’t care about anybody but your own.
You are not better than a trumpist lol
Democrats a year ago: Shut up about Gaza! there is no genocide, you are just being dramatic.
Democrats now: Ohh, poor gaza, why aren’t you doing anything about them? This is all your fault!!!
TF rock you been under? I have yet to encounter a dem, especially here, who hasn’t called Gaza some version of an open-air concentration camp run by Israel. Yeah, elected tools softballed the F out of it, but here you are… “DeMs BaD!1!1”. Same old shit. Pound sand with your appeal to hypocrisy.
“I have yet to encounter a dem, especially here, who hasn’t called Gaza some version of an open-air concentration camp”
You weren’t paying enough attention then.
Your average democrat was firmly on Israel’s side until it became politically convenient for them to pretend they always cared about Palestine.
Edit:
“Pound sand with your appeal to hypocrisy.”
Not my fault democrats are hypocrites.
Both Trump and Biden/Harris are terrible choices for Palestine. Having said that, count the number of Palestinian casualties under Biden and the number of Palestinian casualties under Trump. I’ll wait.
Also count the number of weeks of ceasefire brokered by Trump vs Biden.
The number of death in the last 3 month is comparable to the number of deaths in the last 4 years, is that what you are saying?
No, it is not comparable in any way shape or form. There have been hundreds of thousand of casualties under Biden’s presidency.
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I feel like you’d buy a bridge from me.
If your bridge is as useless as your comment, probably not.
You can just say you don’t get it.
You can just leave me alone.
My friend in lebannon got widowed last year.
Who was in power in the US then?
Americana trying to defend thair country and leaders are making my blood boil. We know, you guys can do even worse, it does not excuse the bad.
Where are the many leaders that, deciding to withhold support from Biden and the Democrats, sought to INCREASE support for Trump? I don’t see them.
Reducing support for one candidate lowers the threshold for the other to win, so staying home absolutely supports Trump, same with voting third party thanks to our wonderful system here
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I love how the people that told you a year ago to shut up about Gaza because it was hurting Biden are now trying to guilt trip you about Gaza
I find it deeply disturbing that when I opened the comment section of a post discussing 400 (now over 700) dead people, mostly innocent children, men, and women, in less than 48 hours, the first reaction was to blame “Arabs,” “Muslims,” “Tankies,” “Leftists,” and “Pro-Palestinians,” using these minority communities as tokens.
This is a glaring display f hypocrisy, these groups are portrayed in a positive light when it benefits politically, only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful…
Any human capable of experiencing empathy would have first reacted with disgust and indignation at the unfolding genocide, rather than resorting to scapegoating and divisive rhetoric, but it may also not be organic comments, what do I know…
I find it deeply disturbing that when I opened the comment section of a post discussing 400 (now over 700) dead people, mostly innocent children, men, and women, in less than 48 hours, the first reaction was to blame “Arabs,” “Muslims,” “Tankies,” “Leftists,” and “Pro-Palestinians,” using these minority communities as tokens.
Tankies are not “minority groups”…
This is a glaring display f hypocrisy, these groups are portrayed in a positive light only when it benefits politically, only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful…
There is no hypocrisy. Arabs and Muslims are portrayed in a positive light to counter the American far right’s frothing hatred of them, that was the core reason.
Any human capable of experiencing empathy would have first reacted with disgust and indignation at the unfolding genocide, rather than resorting to scapegoating and divisive rhetoric, but it may also not be organic comments, what do I know…
“divisive rhetoric” you sound like a fucking centrist.
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I may have used the wrong word but I think you understood what I meant. It’s not an essay, I was displaying the fact that some minority opinions and certain groups of individuals get targeted because they are easy target that helps sway the blame away.
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About your second point, I don’t think it’s correct or else we wouldn’t be reading the gloating in the comments I’m targeting.
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I am not and will never be a centrist nor a republican, but I will criticize what I deem injustice, bad policies, weak strategies (like ostracizing more of your voter base to make them numb)… etc
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Apologies that this is the first you’re hearing about Israel/Palestine
Unfortunately it isn’t. When I have some time I call these things out and advocate because I think it’s important that we do not fall into this force feed normalization of cruelty.
Then why do you think people should be shocked rather than discussing causes?
Why exactly are you going after this person? No one but the fascists are interested in that. So why don’t you keep --whatever your complaints are about-- to yourself.
You’re an idiot if you don’t demand better from your side
May you explain with more clarity what you mean by causes?
Per your original comment, people are blaming minorities
Instead of saying they should be shocked, you should refute them
Indeed, it was mostly my first reaction and I should have added more arguments as to why I was thinking this way, I guess the fact that I was answering what I deem a dishonest and low-effort deflection made me react this way.
Though, I did follow up on multiple instances in this comment section about my opinion on the matter and explained it.
Edit: My bad, It wasn’t on this particular post I did not pay enough attention on where I said what. If you are interested in my POV you can find it on my profile.
…yet i was told that the biden genocide was somehow worse…cake and eat it shit…
I was told that protest voting would save Gaza, is Gaza saved? /s
I was told that protest voting would save Gaza
Nothing was going to save Gaza. That didn’t mean we needed to continue being complicit. But at least centrists didn’t have to consider abandoning netanyahu.
You know who could have saved gaza?
Biden, two years ago.
Scumbag
Unsupporting the red and blue party is the correct thing to do and what will ultimately lead to a positive change. The duopoly party narrative is holding on a really thin line because everyone is unsatisfied on both sides, in europe third parties win plenty of times.
If you throw your trash out of the window that isn’t going to change world pollution but you don’t do that because we live in a society and everyone is supposed to do his part.
Biden’s help killed more at this time, but Trump should catch up by late summer or early autumn this year. Then we can say Trump killed more than Biden.
But Trumps crimes elsewhere will eclipse this grim milestone , and I doubt most commentators here will remark on that when it happens
Is there a tally for each president?
Yes, kind of, if one follows these things enough
I have this idea for a site like a high score thing, where you could (with citations provided) the kill total of world leaders. See how Stalin, Hitler and Mao stack up to Nixon, Bush, Clinton and Trump.
Where it gets difficult to estimate is when people die many years later from the effects.
Even hurricanes are only recently understood to be a huge cause of mortality over a decade later. So where does one draw the line? When support structures in a society are destroyed by nature or man things happen years later.
And then one had to decide how many a leader is directly responsible for, and how many subordinates acting on their own did.
lol. I commented on a post saying that Harris would likely be handling the situation better right now, and I got told by one of the pro-Palestine crazies that they hope my family gets murdered…
Harris would have said not to do it while continuing to supply them with weapons.
Harris would have said she’s doing everything she can to stop this whole breaking federal laws to keep it happening.
I have to believe the pro-Palestine crazies who call Harris voters Nazis are either Russian trolls or still too ashamed to admit they were conned into voting for Palestine’s complete destruction.
voting for Palestine’s complete destruction.
Gaza was already destroyed on your boy Biden’s watch.
Interesting. Weird that Israel is threatening its full destruction now instead of celebrating the fact it happened at least 3 months ago. Those genociders do be crazy.
Whats interesting is you pretending it hasnt happened when its been so widely reported.
Whatever they call themselves they are not pro-Palestine. I don’t buy it. Maybe they’re anti-Israel, but they ain’t pro-Palestine.
And you would understand why if you had any kind of human decency.
People are mourning their dead and you come with your petty domestic political argument? How tone deaf can you be?
Yeah I didn’t get the whole “murder your family” part
You’re really doing your part yelling at a bunch of internet strangers with no control over the situation. Congrats!
If it’s so easy to fix, what are you doing to make things better?
You do have control over the situation. You just had elections
And I voted for Harris, who at least would’ve let protesters be and not arrest them. Could’ve had a chance with her once she got away from Biden. Biden admin initiated the ceasefire that everyone is clamoring about anyways.
But the other idiots here voted for Trump. Give him a year or so and it’ll be worse than it ever was under Biden. He’ll build a golf course over in Gaza as a cherry on top for you.
And before your dumbass says it, I never voted for Biden. Voted for Bernie in 2016 and 2020 and he def would’ve been the guy to settle things down.
Moron.
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Ah yes let me single-handedly take down the fascist regime that has taken over our govt.
Dumbass
Edit: it’s hilarious it seems you made this account solely to yell at people you think support genocide. Why don’t you get a plane ticket and come over and do something about it if you’re so inclined? You’re a useless keyboard warrior
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You said singlehandedly, not me. Join a militia or something
Individual people are not their government.
Yup we certainly did and uncommitted happened along with a ton of others things.
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Just as much as you blaming Americans for dead Arabs and ignoring all of the complexities, nuances, and the actors that led to this war crime.
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People are mourning their dead
On a Lemmy politics forum? The fuck are you talking about?
I had conversations with many an accelerationist who supported Trump over Harris on Gaza. Pretty sure they were just full of shit and spreading misinformation.
I had conversations with many an accelerationist who supported Trump
uh huh, sure you did.
When people were actively arguing that Dems would be worse than Trump on Gaza they were either stupid or accelerationists. Especially considering these are self proclaimed “leftists” who apparently think Trump will usher in a tankie uprising. Not them of course, social media is full on revolutionary activism so they won’t be doing anything.
So tell me, did genocide and the destruction of 92% of the housing in Gaza happen on Bidens watch or not?
< and heres the part where I predict that you will downvote and run away, or reply angrily without answering this question>
The fact that you couldn’t see that Trump would be inarguably worse and/or didn’t care is why Palestine is going to wiped off the map and be but a footnote in history.
Theres that predicted avoidance to engage with the facts.
So this stuff we argue about evidently has nothing to do with the fact that Biden could have stopped the zionist gencoide of civilians but instead he chose to fund it and enocurage it. And Harris (with zionist funding, a zionist husband, zionist campaign advisors) promised to continue the genocide with no changes, same as trump. Pressuring Biden/Harris to change during the election was never on your radar was it. You hoped Harris would win and would… not do what he said she’d do? and just throw that sweet sweet massive AIPAC funding funnel? Because you believe politicians care what the people think after the election happens?
Seems like wishful thinking to me. Seems like the only time we have leverage as voters is during the election. And even then its up to our candidate to listen to the data and act on it.
The way I see it, Biden started a genocide, Trump and Harris both have pledged to continue it. Biden could have stopped it at any time. So could Harris during her campaign. And we had a time-bounded opportunity to pressure Biden/Harris to change but you lot were too scared to take it. I applied what pressure I could so evidently this entire genocide is my fault, does that sum up your assertions here?
You didn’t predict anything. But it’s clear only one of us is angry. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Seems like the only time we have leverage as voters is during the election.
And you predictably used that ‘leverage’ to make things much worse. Now we have 700 people routinely killed in one day under Trump, with total apathy from preople who used to cry ‘genocide’. Everybody with common sense knew that Gazans would be way worse off with Trump in the WH. Both the big increase in killings under Trump and the increase in apathy about the killings under Trump were things that we already knew were going to happen under Trump back when irresponsible people were crying “genocide” during the election. There was never any chance that you were going to improve things by doing that and the entirely predictable result in increases in both killings and apathy.
But thank God we stopped Harris right?
Ugh…
Just like the swift boats crowd.
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It literally is though. Jesus Christ the level of denial.
It’s not, though, as Harris wouldn’t have changed much. The US would have supported Israel in this war whoever the president is. You think Israel would have let a Palestinian or an Arabic authority supervise Gaza after they did all the work of destroying it? Harris wouldn’t have put any real pressure on Israel, and based on her campaign it seemed like even the little angry comments every now and then would also disappear.
A country that may have benefited from Harris being president is Lebanon for example, but for Palestine as a whole this was the plan since the beginning.
What you probably meant is this being about the US and it’s unconditional support, not it’s elections.
The problem with you yanks is that you’re too far up your own asses. How predictable is it that the whole discussion under this post is about your last election. Nobody cares any more. Your country is lead by a fascist doing fascist things to you and abroad. And all you do is bicker about what happened half a year ago. Your country is wading in the waters of Rubicon, what are you going to do NOW about it?
Yeah because it’s impossible to talk about two things at the same time.
What good has analyzing our past decisions and their consequences ever been for us? /s
what are you going to do NOW about it?
This mess isn’t on some of us. Some of us tried very hard to prevent this outcome and now suddenly we’re expected to clean up other people’s fucking mess.
Nah, fuck that.
You should just ask the AIPAC zionists this question and not us. We take orders from them.
Ask them what?
ah sorry man. I replied to the wrong person. I have failed, and feel shame. The reply was for @acargitz when he said:
Your country is wading in the waters of Rubicon, what are you going to do NOW about it?
Are you seriously trying to I pull a “it’s the Jews’ fault” right now?
the jews fault? no. Classic zionist deflection though on your part.
Are all jews zionists? no. I said zionists didnt I. And then you conflated that with judaism. Seems you’re an antisemite. Why are you lying about innocent moderate/reform jewish people?
the zionists fault? yes.
Zionism is a policy of violent land theft and murder. Look it up. Equating zionism with all of judaism is dishonest on your part. You’re using all jews as human shields to conduct your violence.
At what point did German complicity become a crime?
Was Einstein complicit when he fled? I intend to try and leave, or take refuge somehow.
No he wasn’t. I intend on the same.
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And exactly zero people are shocked by this.
You’re not shocked because you’re a scum and deepdown you think they deserved it
These pesky arabs costed you the elections after all, right?
I’m sure the Arab nations, and the Palestinians in particular are besides themselves with joy and appreciation to have such an eloquent and thought provoking individual representing them.
Keep up the good fight! Hope the eventual anyeurysm you’re blasting towards is massive, severe, and you don’t suffer at all.
Funny how genocide supporters always need to hide behind sarcasm to love with their whole scumery
Funny how little people talk big while beating on their keyboard violently.
You can stop signaling. We all see how truly virtuous you are.
Ah yea let’s use talking points from 2010 right wing faceboink.
When you’re a scum, you can’t even comprehend others might have values. Must be hypocrisy, right? Right?
Aww, ain’t you just the cutest!
Keep screaming lil guy, it’s working!
I know. Some guy in Florida invited me for a duel, apparently he lives in a walmart
Lighten up, Francis
They’ve been waiting for our permission each time?
They have always wait for US green light to do it and they have always had it
so long as trump, bibi, putin, and their sycophants are in power, pretty much every man woman and child in gaza is living on borrowed time.
No change since last war criminal in power either.
Which one? Literally every American president since the advent of international criminal law counts as a war criminal. I get you mean Biden, but American imperialism is one of the things wrong with the world.
No disagreement here
AIPAC and it’s member, known for smuggling our tax dollar for genocide.
Nixon, Iran, hostages…
