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Can someone, who believes this is a Nazi salute, explain to me what his motivation would be? I see what I see but I can’t see it as a nazi thing unless he was intentionally sabotaging or trolling but it doesn’t make sense contextually, unless I need to watch the whole damn thing to get it.
Everyone knows it was a Nazi Salute.
Nazi’s just denying it because 1) they are not quite at the point where they can sieg heil while marching down mainstreet just yet and 2) because it amuses them to see the left try to desperately convince them it was a nazi salute.
All your desperate justification, facts, evidence, etc?
It wont make a nazi not a nazi.
but it will amuse them, and exhaust you.
Its time to stop using words against nazis, and go back to using forms are communication that carry a more physical finality to their arguments.
They are not the baddies because of a Nazi salute. They are baddies because of shitload of other things. Which I’m starting to think the Nazi solute is a distraction from. I see so many posts about the salute and the “Gulf of America” and about assigned-at-conception gendering, and almost nothing about the executive order that actually have implications.
Wrote up a summary months ago (with reputable sources!) and warned about Nazis too and was permabanned from Lemmy news and politics for it.
Idk man, you can tell people stuff, but it’s so hard for them to access what’s real right now. There’s a concerted online effort to suppress factual info.
Someone who doesn’t pick as many internet fights as me needs to post that to BestOfLemmy
He’s basically an edge lord 4-channer, Nazi saluting to: “own the libs” is sort of on brand.
I don’t think he’s a dyed in the wool Führer-lover. I do think he’s a hyper insecure, spoiled, man-child with enough ties to the far right to idolize “anti-social behavior” and think he’s the hottest shit ever to pull off such a “based” stunt.
A poser; doing loser shit opening the door for someone/something much worse because his idiot brain thinks he’s being cute.
You basically just described every fascist/Nazi ever while arguing that he’s not really a Nazi just “edgy.” Let’s not make this same mistake again, hyper insecure spoiled man-children with enough ties to the far right to idolize anti-social behavior ARE NAZIS.
I’m not excusing behavior, far from it, but I’m not sure our modern problem children can be described with an 80 year old German political party. Far right, white supremest extremism is a now problem. These losers don’t care if you call them a Nazi, it just means you “fell for it bro/got owned lib.”
Call them what they are, not what they want to be.
I think the label “Nazi” is used not because it is the most accurate possible term, but because it communicates very efficiently.
but I’m not sure our modern problem children can be described with an 80 year old German political party. Far right, white supremest extremism is a now problem.
I’m confused - wasn’t far right, ‘aryan’ supremacy extremism a then problem too? Specifically 80 years ago in Germany?
Put it this way, if the forced labour camps were to start up tomorrow. Do you think this chud would be for or against them?
I’m not going to split hairs over what kind of fascist / fascism enabler he is. He did the salute, he boosts Nazis. Close enough.
I am, they’re fascists, whatever colour shirt they’re wearing. And hard disagree that our modern problems can’t be described by old ones, what an ahistorical take.
I didn’t mean anything personal, just my point of view, any angry vibes were absolutely not headed your way. I just am a bit frustrated that this is the world we live in.
I can agree to disagree comrade.
I don’t think he’s a dyed in the wool Führer-lover.
No, of course not. He’s a dyed-in-the-wool Afrikkkaner. It’s a Dutch/English strain of Fascism far more in line with the American brand than the German/Nordic Central European brand.
A poser; doing loser shit opening the door for someone/something much worse because his idiot brain thinks he’s being cute.
A professional sycophant and corrupt corporate hack who has made a cool trillion selling exploding cars, crashing spaceships, and non-existent subway systems. He’s anything but a loser, as he’s perfectly hacked the modern capitalist system.
The Nazi pastiche he’s adopted is intended to keep those super-sized government contracts and cheap private loans coming. Same reason he pays teams of pro-gamers to run his video game accounts and throws the biggest, most debauched orgies in Silicon Valley or Austin, TX. Same reason he nearly killed himself and Peter Thiel doing burnouts in a brand new McLauren.
TrueAnon Podcast has a great three-part series “The Lamest Show On Earth” that takes a deep dive into Musk’s background. Does a great job of laying out who this guy is and how he’s successfully grifted his way to the pinnacle of the western business ziggurat. The most that can be said of him is that he loves to dominate other people. The explicit flavor of fascism is secondary.
You’re not wrong, a lot of these chuds, especially the tech bros, are obviously deeply insecure and have figured out they can’t buy authenticity and coolness with money or power. That’s where that brittle and mean bitterness they all have about other people living as they choose comes from. But it goes deeper than just emulating edgelords for kicks and covering up for their self-esteem issues.
Doing it and avoiding any tangible punishment or long term fallout demonstrates what a powerful, untouchable person he is to the boot-licking right wing base. The whole goal is to build an in group of followers that is protected with power and privilege (which ensures their loyalty) and this is a signal to them that he can do just that.
It’s also a demonstration of unity in having a common enemy, and being willing to do anything to “win”. Wether it’s politics or a culture war, being willing to escalate is seen as a marker of strength. It’s the only kind of political and social interaction they can understand.
You’re right that he’s likely not a hard core admirer of Hitler. It’s not about a particular political standpoint, it’s about having the power to do whatever he wants and making sure people know it.
I’m starting to think that doing enough Ketamine to take down a racehorse just before giving a speech to the entire world’s media, was probably not a good idea…
Being a Nazi doesn’t help either.
Inventing a time machine that lets you go back and kill hitler before he gets in power is a very common power fantasy.
Yet today when Americans have 2A and 11 guns per person instead of killing tyrants they’ll side with them out of convenience and self preservation. The apathetic centrist majority who think political illiteracy is the reasonable and sensible position are the biggest asset to fascism.
That’s the thing about the 2A-people, no matter how much you fantasize about taking on the government guerilla-style… with the two party system as it is, at least half of the people with guns will join the opposing side…
Unless, of course, you turn it into a matter of partisan identity and the other side willingly plays along, meaning it’s more like 60/30 in your favor.
The Great Man Theory take is that Hitler was saying and doing a kind of politics unique to his historical moment. He didn’t stumble into the right beer hall at the right moment and echo the sentiments of tens of thousands of his disgruntled military peers but transformed the popular views of a nation. His rhetoric was brilliantly gripping, rather than just heavily circulated. His political maneuverings were expert rather than just stubbornly persistent. His military strategies were the product of genius rather than meth and recklessness.
Go back in time and kill Hitler and you don’t fix the post-war disparity between the WW1 Axis and Ally powers. You don’t discourage re-militarization in a country overrun by US military contractors that saw massive profits in rearming the German state. You certainly don’t mitigate the impacts of the post-1917 wave after wave of Red Scares or keep Henry Ford from circulating “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” in every Ford dealership on either side of the Atlantic.
At best, you spare Charlie Chaplain the shame of shaving off his tiny mustache. But there’s a strong reason to believe the post-Depression fascist wave that crested into WW2 was over-determined.
You wouldn’t stop WWII, but you would drastically change its nature.
Get rid of Hitler and you just end up with President Himmler instead. Virtually nothing else changes.
Says who?
History is not predetermined.
You can argue with a philosopher over that. But certain historical events can be over-determined, with enough causal factors prompting them that a given outcome is functionally inevitable.
Perhaps odds may favor “macro” events like “war”. They do not predict which countries are invaded, the brutality of the leader, the alliances, who the leader is, concentration camps, etc. but not a “Hitler”.
If you want to go back in time and prevent the Holocaust specifically, your time would be better well spent killing Henry Ford or Arthur de Gobineau or Martin Luther. Mass murder of Jews in Europe had been common place for centuries. It was a sentiment the Nazis capitalized on, not one they invented.
Similarly, if you wanted to deter shape of European politics that lead to the World Wars, temporal assassination of Bismark or Napoleon III would be far more effective. Those battle lines had been drawn well in advance of 1932.
Time travel guy failed by a couple of centimeters.
It’s not a full on Nazi salute as the words „Heil“, „Heil Hitler“, or „Sieg Heil“ aren’t used. However, it is a full on salute in its tradition. A right wing oligarch holding a victory speech espousing conservative revolution and a glorious future are in the vein of the fascism of old.
Trumpism doesn’t need to even express itself as fully fascist. The popular support, the support of the tycoons of industry, institutional acquiescence, lack of organized resistance, means he doesn’t need to go full authoritarian.
The ideological flexibility of Trumpism is enormous. Allegiance to Trump and MAGA is pretty much it. The rest of the ideology is dynamically formed by sycophants looking for Trump‘s favor. The post ironic attitude means immunity to value based criticism.
Elon Musk is a mix of minister for propaganda and court jester at the same time.
It’s not a full on Nazi salute as the words „Heil“, „Heil Hitler“, or „Sieg Heil“ aren’t used.
Oh, give me a break. There’s no vocal component to the salute. It’s a salute. You don’t get to say “No, it only counts if I say the words while I’m wearing the uniform, and I have to be goose-stepping while I’m doing it, too”.
I know I won’t change your mind by disagreeing with you regarding the nazi salute. But I want to say that I am very grossed out by all the apologists defending him, even just a little bit.
Just remember the quote, for evil men to succeed, good men just have to do nothing
The apathetic centrist majority who think political illiteracy is the smart and sensible position are the biggest asset to fascism.
Its real easy to be a centrist when it doesn’t directly effect you.
Or when you don’t realize that it already is directly affecting you because “They pay me well enough to keep me in a comfy box, I don’t have time to do anything or read or risk losing my job” while the ones they love are picked off one by one. Then when they come out the other side they go “How did all this happen? It was equally the fault of the radicals on both sides.” Thus the unenlightened centrist cycle will continue.
The fact this is a debatable thing is the shame of humanity.
You know what’s even worst? ADL.
It’s also the Roman salute, which predates nazis and fascists.
And you gotta admit, it’s a powerful gesture.
Also, he runs a company that makes spaceships. Which is pretty awsome.
Think about that while you work your shitty 9-to-5
And the swastika was a Hindu symbol, blah blah blah.
Hanging dictators upside down is also a very powerful gesture.
He doesn’t run shit anymore, assuming that he’s ever run something more than his mouth.
He’s just like one of those opportunistic diseases that attack a body with a compromised immune systems.
And while I work my shitty job I’ll think about how cool it is that I’m not a Nazi *shrugs
PS: since he’s Trump’s propaganda arm, I think that he won’t hang by his feet, he’ll just bite into a cyanide pill to avoid prosecution.
This “Roman salute” is also a ridiculous claim. Why would musk to a Roman salute? How does Rome fit into anything?
Then you just devolve into the common “well ur jealous because he’s rich” thing that people go for whenever an oligarch is criticized.
It’s the lamest version of whatever you want to call it. he’s not projecting power, he looks like a 16 year old edgelord in a fedora and trenchcoat that had practiced this in the mirror for weeks and then got overly excited and blew his load when he had the opportunity to be edgy in public. He’s a fascist and used a salute adopted by fascists in Italy and then by fascists in Germany in the early 20th century. The man is a fascist, no matter how you or any of your chud friends try to spin it.
Fuck off wanna be Nazi.
Hundred bucks says that they resemble their username
You are like one of those little bugs that make noise at night. But instead of a melodious cheeping you just go “nazi nazi”.
It’s very simple. If you try to apologize for Nazis, that makes you a Nazi. My grandparents gave me and the rest of their grandchildren all the training, and guns, we need to properly deal with fascists.
The only good fascist is a dead fascist.
But nobody apologized for nazis.
You did. That salute originally was the Roman salute, and an American one. It isn’t either one of those any more. Anyone with common sense, and any sort of knowledge of history knows that.
Or are you admitting that you are a bot?
That’s a semantic argument about the salute. It makes no reference to nazis. You have nothing.
Since you’re new here, I’m gonna give you a hint. We are a leftist community. We will not fall for your gaslighting, lies, and conservative talking points. If you insist on trying to sow division in our communities, you aren’t going to have any fun doing it. We will permaban you. You’re probably going to be far more welcome on propaganda sites like Truth Social, and Twitter.
Reddit’s leaking.
Thanks you, we’ve now got another data point which shows that it only takes 27 hours for someone to get brainwashed
And you gotta admit, it’s a powerful gesture.
?
Homelander jerking off on top of a skyscraper.
Logical fallacy: Argument from authority.
There’s a difference between an authority figure and someone with expertise in a subject. This individual isn’t using a position of power to supplement his argument, he is just detailing his experience.
People really need to stop treating logical fallacy like they’re harry potter spells.
also the fallacy fallacy would fit perfectly here. Even if the fallacy was occurring that doesn’t mean the argument is wrong.
Yep, you can illogically come to a conclusion and still be right. That’s basically how intuitive thought is defined.
Logical fallacy: Fallacy fallacy
Look who learned the world fallacy today. Still you’re using it wrong
/s
Journalists: It appeared to be a South African karate chop of some kind
If you went to college and knew any media majors you’d know exactly why media is failing us. Some journalists are the exception, obviously, but not the ones to whom you refer.
I didn’t know any media majors so maybe you could enlighten us.
It was the easiest degree to complete, so the majors were not the sharpest.
I figure ProPublica and The Lancet doesn’t feel the need to write about a Nazi salute we could all see for our own eyes, no investigative journalism necessary.
It has been maddening how corporate media has been trying to tell us it was anything but a Nazi salute. I’m reminded of the Star Trek episode Chain of Command Part II, “There are four lights!”
Imagine what else they’ve been lying about.
Gell-Mann Amnesia effect
Lots of sex stuff with kids… some accidental murder and drug binges… the typical conservative stuff they project on others.
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, preach
That’s just rich people behavior.
White power is in the White House…quite terrifying and embarrassing
It’s been in the White House goddammit, they’re just being open about it now.
No one tell bro about Woodrow Wilson
Or Andrew Jackson.
Andrew Jackson deserves more hate.
Anyone who knows anything about the Native Americans, the Indigenous Critique, and their ideas of freedom’s profound influence on the European Enlightenment, should boil with hatred at what European Americans did to them.
I searched that exact tweet up and it was posted by three different accounts with the exact same wording.
Me thinks this is no real.
OP you got a source? Because if this guy is who he claims he is then all of his work is being called into question and I would be very curious to see what other incorrect takes he’s got.
Bro saying it wasn’t a nazi salute 💀💀💀
The source could still be totally bogus.
This is why I hate Twitter, especially Twitter screenshots like this without even enough info to easily look up the user.
And it throws up several red flags for authenticity, such as unironically using “chuds” while trying to establish credibility.
Doesn’t matter what this one random says because it’s still an obvious Nazi salute.
It wasn’t. But idk why I bother even attempting to have the conversation on this site. Y’all are convinced that it was and seemingly no other information can penetrate your thick skulls. At least some have had the decency admit they don’t care about the truth and just want to be angry which is cringe but I respect the honesty.
Edit: spelling.
If you don’t like being here, you can leave and take your 2 week old account with you.
Nazis like you deserve no quarter.
We don’t need or want you here either, fascist.
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Stock photo of Majorllama with his “normal people in the shadows.”
Btw, feel free to Google what “argument from fallacy” means, dipshit.
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Reached the end of the ol’ intellectual abilities already? Wow. Why don’t you go take a nap, lil guy?
lol got em
It wasn’t.
Nazi apologist, got it.
Negative ghostrider.
If that wasn’t a Nazi salute, Hitlers weren’t either.
Bro are you good? That’s not how anything works.
That is how this works. You don’t sieg heil twice in a row on accident.
Damn. Right to the top- Furher level. This isn’t any SS bullshit. This is practice makes perfect, I might have paid a trainer to get this good level execution. His momma always said, “If you’re gonna do something awful, be the very best at it dear”
…you do when you aren’t doing a Nazi salute and you want to properly address two half’s of a stadium.
Hitler had more people than trumps inauguration so he needed more salutes. Musk optimized it down to 3. What a genious. Truly the henry ford of our time, right down to the details.
If it wasn’t a nazi salute, why didn’t he apologize? 🤔
Did he? I’m not gonna slog through the shit show that is his Twitter feed , but if you got proof I’m happy to see it.
If he did apologize I suspect he was apologizing for the accidental similarities and not because he’s an actual Nazi.
Do you really think if someone was stupid enough to pull a real Nazi salute at that event on purpose that he would then turn around and apologize for it?
I might have misjudged you. Maybe you’re not dumb, just illiterate.
Ayo I swear that said “why did he apologize” earlier.
There’s no mark of edit, you read it wrong. In your world is it more likely that comment was stealthily editted to dunk on you than simply you being wrong about something?
Just checked the modlog; you got a 3 month suspension from 8 communities cause you were mean, i think.
Looks like your account is new so I’ll explain: normally being mean wouldn’t get you banned but in this case you had the unpopular opinion so you got suspended by an unhappy moderator.
Welcome to Lemmy.
Yeah I don’t really care tbh. At least two of those bans were falsely applied as I did not break the rules they claimed I did, but I don’t care to argue with power tripping mods in the first place. The vegan one I’m not shocked by. That crowd is allergic to facts or any criticism of their way of life.
I don’t remember the other ones.
Our of curiosity (because as you pointed out I am new here) how does one see mod logs? I only use the site through my phone and the sync app so I am guessing that’s something you have to use a computer to be able to see?
Oh man. Buckle up. The hive mind here is something fierce. Something about the Left eating their young. People get real pissy when you question a common narrative you find here. It’s becoming harder to separate fact from fiction for me. I can’t decide if my bullshit detector is accurate or malfunctioning.
It feels like there may be a fair amount of propaganda happening. Like back during the early days of the r/thedonald when you could you could watch the Russians clock in and stir up the magats and q’s. Just a different political flavor.
IDK, I say this as a blue voting redneck and supporter of socialized medicine and queer rights and so on.
You sound alright brother. I also lean left, but I ain’t into that super left hivemind bullshit.
Big fan of socializing medicine and I think all consenting adults can marry and fuck whoever the hell they want.
I also think everyone has a right to bear arms which they really don’t like.
I believe in free speech full stop. Used to be a lefty thing and now somehow isn’t. Not a fan of that shift.
I also hate cancel culture and DEI nonsense. People make mistakes and change. Hire the best person for the job regardless of race, gender and whatever else.
Most importantly I want the government to fuck off. Leave everyone alone. Help those who need help but stop telling us what to do dammit.
Looks like you caught another ban. I just had a thread removed for sealioning. Ehh.
Anyhow, hit me up by PM if you want.
As far as firearms go, yah, but nuanced. I do support more stringent purchasing requirements, some common sense limitations. Ultimately, we need a cultural shift back to where they are viewed as tools and not a male enhancement device. I use them for farming and hunting. However, the gun debate is pointless until the US rejects the overt fascism that we are seeing now. Bigger fish to fry.
While I’m obviously in favor of free speech, I think the algorithmically altered shit that is happening with corporate social media is a major problem. As is state level actors like Russia and China using Western social media to influence elections. Foreign involvement in US election social media should be squished like a bug, that is the opposite of free speech.
DEI in particular, that whole thing has been so politicized that it’s hard to see the forest through the trees. Systemic racism is real, seen it all my life in the deep South. Fought against racism when running a corporate shop and it was an uphill battle. IDK, I’m probably more sympathetic to too much DEI than none. I feel like it and cancel culture are a distraction mostly used by the Right. Discrimination is a real problem, and discrimination laws along with workman’s comp and other protections should actually be enforced. The companies that do this shit should be fined out of existence.
Having moved from the south to the northeast, I’m liking the higher level of government involvement in some areas, especially schools and roads. Sucks that I can’t throw away cardboard, recycling bins aren’t big enough to get rid of it, can’t burn it, and I’m not allowed to burn it.
Anyhow, mostly I dislike fanaticism of any stripe. Religious, political, or whatever. I’ve said before, to the Republicans, I’m a radical leftist demon. To the leftists outside of the US, I’m a centrist or right. We’ve lost nuance. Currently the far right is a much greater threat to my people than the the far left.
Mostly, I’m looking for unbiased and timely discussion of news. Warning of what may be coming from the nuts now in power.
Communication is about both what you mean to say and what people hear. We can never be 100% sure what Elon meant to say, but for some reason a lot of people heard something concerning. But maybe it’s just a small number of loud people online.
But it’s an easy enough thing to test. Just go onto work tomorrow and do the same motion a bunch of times and ask people what they “hear”. If they mostly hear you just being friendly then you’ll know you’re correct. Easy peasy.
Communication is 100% what the other person hears.
What? Did you reply to the wrong comment or am I having a fuckin stroke?
The latter.
Do you not see movement as a form of communication?
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