🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
I said it in another post: if you see a bunch of influencers all suddenly peddling the same stuff, stay away. All of them can be bought.
Or, just don’t trust ads period
Do your own research
Okay, all of these customer reviews loved this product!
Weird how formulaic they sounded though.
Didn’t say anything about site reviews either :p
But ya finding good sources can be hard
Do your own research is the famous last coherent phrase of the QAnon crowd. Idk what the answer is but that phrase will forever make me uneasy.
How long are we going to let the far right keep stealing our words? It’s a proud respectable cryptocurrency term.
Grifters all the way down then
It’s also something leftists famously tell each other ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Or just don’t buy shit you don’t need.
(You don’t buy Honey.)
Technically you don’t need housing or personal transportation so
Even nomadic culture have housing they carry with them.
Especially anything from Linus, they’re a very scummy group.
What annoys me the most is since his last drama, Linus HAS to be the face in every video now! Wtf it used to be a bunch of them took turns making videos, and it was fun seeing everyone work on different things. He has to be front and get all the attention, it just feels weird now.
Side effect of him stepping away from the CEO role, I guess.
Pretty sure it has nothing to do with him needing attention and everything to do with thumbnails of him getting more clicks. It’s the only thing the company cares about.
But I really enjoy watching Techlinked :(
I have a built-in spidey sense that hates any product that gets peddled simultaneously by a bunch of YouTubers.
See also: RayCons headphones, which appear to be unilaterally bullshit but were on absolutely every video for a couple of months, touted as being the very best.
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered “yeah, but where do they get their money?” I always figured it was just a way to take people’s data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, let’s be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. It’s basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon product’s country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didn’t work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
It’s funny how Edge got lambasted for it when they introduced that feature, but it’s legitimately super helpful and non-invasive.
I had no idea it was, I don’t keep up with browser news. I just wish they didn’t migrate to Chromium. It became my main browser for a brief period before that.
I just used it randomly when I was working and doing some shopping for a computer in my downtime and decided to try out the feature. That and the AI are super good when combo’ed to shop smart. Managed to save $800 off a quality laptop.
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
Also pcpartpicker to track pc parts. Isthereanydeals for game prices.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
“Hey Honey, we’ll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off.”
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasn’t worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesn’t fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we can’t have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. There’s no place for ethics in that combination.
everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Enshittification correctly defined.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didn’t realize they were playing both sides. It’s fucked.
If you’re sitting at a poker table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can’t tell what the product is, It’s you.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
Yeah, I feel like that’s usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn’t really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you’re getting downvoted by so many people who don’t realize you’re pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects don’t have suckers.
misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services
To be honest I don’t think that’s clear at all, it feels like it’s more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
It’s difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but I’d argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means something ultimately isn’t.
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenter’s phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant “How the product is being funded”.
Of course, it gets hard when there’s multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
A useful question to ask when hearing about a new company is “What’s your business model?”
There is no such thing as a free and benevolent product with an advertising budget.
Free and benevolent maybe not. but genuine and non malicious?
“What’s your business model?” “we make and sell delicious sandwiches. Customer buys the sandwich for a little mote than it costs to make so we get money for ourselves.” That isn’t a scam.
Correct. It’s not a scam. Because it’s not free. The sandwich had a price posted, you paid it, you received the product. Valid business model.
What would you think instead if you saw a NYT front page ad taken out for Free Sandwich Mart, the all-you-can-eat totally free sandwich emporium?
Or in this case, a free browser extension that paid to sponsor five thousand YouTube videos that promises to help you pay less money to every store you activate it on at no cost to you?
Yes. Which is why, when you see a novel service being advertised, it is a useful exercise to ask of them “What is your business model?”
Wikipedia
Show me a Wikipedia ad that they paid money for?
They have a budget spent on advertising on wikipedia itself, plus the cost of the emails they send out asking for donations.
Does it even count if you’re advertising on your own platform? If I’m able to see the “ads” in the first place, I’m already using it.
I also wouldn’t exactly call a donation drive “advertising” either. They’re not trying to onboard more users to the service, they’re nagging people who already use the service to give them money. Which is itself leaning a bit on the wall of what is and isn’t “free”.
Does it even count if you’re advertising on your own platform?
YES
Their advertisement budget is collected by guilt tripping Wikipedia users using the lie that the website would cease if they didn’t ”donate”.
Yes, their method of advertising/fundraising is atrocious. They still have an advertising budget and their product is benevolent and free.
I agree
Real as shit. I know idiots who think apple pays people scaling on how many downloads their app has xD (kinda like yt views)
“Where are they getting money to pay for sponsorships and what are their motivations”
Linus Tech Tips really is scum. Yet more proof of that.
It was a matter of time until the public found out about this. They couldn’t think in the long term, by not accepting a bit of backlash, exposing the scam they unknowingly participated in they only opened themselves up for more later.
They are not only evil, they are stupid too, which is worse.
OP isn’t exactly giving you the full story there. I know for a fact I’ve seen a video on this. I remember thinking at the time “well duh”.
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. It’s hilarious.
It’s a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Shit! You are right. Thats horrible. And explains why he freaks me out.
Mr. Beast is completely creepy.
Oh… THAT’s what’s off!
I used honey for a while and it was working great for me with “exclusive” coupons and Cashback and then one time I bough a cellphone that was supposed to have $250 cashback. I did all the necessary steps, read the t&c, took screenshots of the offer and made the purchase. I never got the transaction to appear on their website. Sending emails it trying to contact them was futile (I even made an automatic script to send an email everyday to follow up). Fuck PayPal
Ltt didn’t hide shit, they posted it on a public forum
They didn’t hide it, but a huge portion of their audience doesn’t read the forums. A 10 minute video of Linus ranting about them would have opened this scandal to a wider audience years ago.
Linus usually likes to rant about it on the WAN show then they usually make a clip for YouTube, but weird he didn’t do that for honey, maybe he didn’t know how far the scam went.
As creator that makes some of their profits from affiliate links, I don’t see how that could be the case for him.
Seems more likely they had a reason to avoid beef with PayPal.
Could have a non disparagement clause in their former agreement
non disparagement clause
Not the level of a non-compete clause but that’s a scummy thing I hope is not legal.
It’s fairly common. As far as legal, that will depend on the jurisdiction and the mood of the judge.
Linus said it would be on this week’s WAN show
Especially considering he hasn’t been shy about ranting about a lot of things from (insert latest apple thing) to “fucking eggshell”
And then they took sponsorships from Karma which does the exact same thing
There may have been non-disclosure agreements between Linus tech tips and PayPal Honey. They may have threatened to sue him if he went public. I’m assuming we’ll find out the details in the next few weeks.
Yeah, that not nothing but it isn’t far off. They have a massive platform. It deserved at least a video telling people about it.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT. I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on, I think their forum post was good and I believe they even mentioned this functionality of Honey a few times on the WAN show. It wasn’t a secret, and anyone who cared to do in-depth research on a potential sponsor could have found out.
And yet here’s the scandal being exposed TWO YEARS LATER. Yeah, LTT couldn’t possibly have handled this better… /s
They told everyone and nobody cared, turns out people care if a YouTube video is made framing the same thing differently. Like yeah, Honey’s practice is bad for the creator industry, but is it bad enough to bring it back to the people who took their money? No, I don’t think so.I think this is more of an example of how easy it is to get the masses angry with a YouTube video than anything. It’s good that more people are going to move away from this information harvesting app, but I really feel like the reaction and hatred is overblown and, at least for the hatred towards creators, unwarranted.
The way I see it, people still take money from predatory gambling sites, and if any creator deserves pushback, it’s them.
[Added information: LTT say they were unaware Honey was mistreating users. So they had no reason to make a video at the time they dropped Honey for mistreating them.]
I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on
Their viewers getting scammed by tech they promoted isn’t worth a video on their main channel? If they could legally do it I think they should have.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT
LTT have made mistakes (edit: and made choices/comments I would disprove of) but the dunking here does seem disproportionate.
I’m definitely noticing a lot of hate warranted or not bjt it’s honestly also been hard to defend them after their last “scandal”. Once bitten twice shy…
Same reason I don’t try to give CD Projekt RED the benefit of the doubt anymore even though I loved Cyberpunk despite the messed up launch, and it seems they’ve largely redeemed themselves - I now realize where their priorities lie.
They could have been exposed to legal liability to report on a business partner like that.
If only they had some medium to post the information, perhaps a medium that that VAST MAJORITY of their viewers use.
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
I knew this was Douglas Adams by the tone but had to look it up to realize it was Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Time for a re-read!
Their complaint was that honey inserted their affiliate cookie even when they didn’t find a coupon code for you. I doubt they knew the full extent of the scam.
Plus, we don’t know what was in their contract with honey. They could still be subject to a non-disparagement clause.
GN doesn’t seem to have a problem holding their sponsors accountable, putting a story together, doing their due diligence, and then letting everybody know.
I’m so proud I never consumed these guys shit
Was it all that surprising to you though?
By the time honey hit the scene we had been ten years into “sketchy Browser extension that monitors your browsing habits and injects ads”
I guess getting flogged by your favorite influencer ads a veneer of legitimacy for a lot of people.
I think what was truly surprising is that they were bought for 4 billion.That much money for… basically an out and out scam. Paypal is that sure that it’s:
-
entirely legal
-
Will never be stopped
-
will return on a 4 billion investment.
-
You guys think Rakuten does the same? I have got so much money from them.
Rakuten is up front about it. They force their affiliate links, then pay you part of their cut.
Honey forces their affiliate links in exchange for maybe finding you a discount code.
I also think Rakuten compensates me fairly. I take the payout in Amex points. Instead of money they give me 1 cent per point which I can leverage to a value of around 5 cpp through transfers
I book my hotels for with them for generally 5%. It adds up.
I never trust browser extensions outside of a select few. However, I have used Paypal quite a bit. I would think many of us have.
Seriously.
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
I don’t mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first–you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more–but at least it’s clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that’s an immediate red flag.
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn’t use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn’t just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
This isn’t even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren’t scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven’t quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it’s buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
I thought it was just collecting and selling user data but while I’d bet it’s still happening - wow, this is way craftier.
I haven’t trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they can’t even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
Just open their privacy policy and done. They sell your browsing info, and you could stop it there
Pretty sure this was already posted yesterday when it came out. Or it might have been a different community.
Watching the full video is important though because they are scamming the consumer too, not just “”“influencers”“”. Someone made a great comment about how it’s just one greedy troll stealing from another and has no effect on the consumer since they still save money but Honey not actually giving you the best coupons on purpose is next level dickholery.
Lying about the coupons really should be the focus so people stop harming themselves using Honey.
See, I’m torn. I’ve never used honey, so I was never scammed. However I do think them scamming consumers is awful.
Buuuuuuuut, I DO enjoy the fact that they scammed influencers.
Yeah I thought that too until seeing the bits about consumers getting shafted. Awful company, hope they get sued into bankruptcy.
They are owned by PayPal, so that seems unlikely
Small content creator makes informative, honest review of a product. Honey gets money on the commission. This makes you happy?
It’s also kind of a protection racket against shops. “Partner with us or we’ll cut into your profits by spreading cheap coupon codes, but partner with us and we’ll protect you”
I used Honey before thr PayPal purchase and it did have working discount codes, as well as a cashback thing that I redeemed a couple times. But I haven’t had any codes work for a long time.
I don’t have any love for influencers but they have the right to make money IMO, and it’s completely shitty behavior for honey to be taking that away from them.
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
