Is it bots? Are those humans whos mission is to cause chaos? Is the weird behaviour caused by the creation of the concept of lemmy?
Somebody please explain to me wtf is going on.
They answer destructive comments, assuming shit, demanding shit. Are they trolls?
Are they being paid for causing chaos? It’s insane
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It’s a combination of tankies and some more level headed leftists. They do have a decent proportion of OK users and the occasional decent meme, but the frequent genocide denialism and too many tankies have resulted in a lot of blocks and bans.
The “Just Kidding, but maybe not” kind of memes are both common in the tankie group as well in the right-wing group, which makes me thing it’s just the same people with different costumes, also known as a reskinned model.
Sounds like political compass shit, left or right, but primarily in the “authoritarian” top half
The Political Compass doesn’t actually mean anything, you cannot simplify political views to a grid, moreover nobody is “authoritarian,” people have different views on centralization vs decentralization. For example, Marxists believe in a fully publicy owned, centrally planned economy, whereas Anarchists believe in full horizontalism. I would describe the Marxist system as having more potential for democracy, as you have a unified system and thus your votes and voice covers a broader area, whereas an Anarchist would disagree, most likely.
The political compass has got to be the most bullshit metric, I’m according to the compos a left libertarian. It doesn’t account for theory and for people who are marxist and understand that communism has not yet materialised. Anyway just a slight annoyance i have.
It’s that horseshoe again.
Far left and far right, hand in hand, both reminiscing for a 1950s that never existed. One in Russia and one in America.
Horseshoe theory
Authoritarians are authoritarian first. Left or right is an afterthought. No horseshoes required.
That is the base of the horseshoe theory.
Only if you have a juvenile concept of political Spectrum. That only extends across one dimension. Leninists are barely nominally left-wing. In practice most of them are State capitalist and not at all left wing.
In practice social Democrats and even Democratic socialists tend to be more left-leaning than leninists. And don’t feel a reactionary need to Slaughter or imprison those that disagree with them regularly. I mean if we are going by the providing social benefit to your chosen class of people qualifies a socialism. Then that would make the Nazis socialist. Which they most definitely we’re not.
Yes, the theory comes from the superficial observation that the actions of the nominal extremes look very similar. And when your head is being crushed by the boot of authoritarianism you don’t care if it is the right foot, or the left foot wearing it.
At one time there were many concepts of what Socialism is, and at the time nazism was A socialism, of course completely opposite of the concepts that survived.
Hardly. Lennonism still exists. It’s highly similar. In fact Lenin and Stalin helped Hitler invaded Poland. And exterminated their own ethnic polish population in Russia. Leninists still defend these actions to this day and hypocritically criticize “the west”.
Why would democratic socialists be less left-leaning than social democrats?
The order was not meant to be significant. And purely just a construct of a stream of consciousness speech to text. Though you aren’t wrong.
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“reskinned model”, lol, interesting application of the concept. I like.
I’m sort of new to Lemmy, having only been here a few months, and I started my first account here in world, the one I am commenting with.
What I found is that world has many cool and fun and interesting communities, but for news ( world or USA centered) is really centralist USA based. World has cut off access to many other cool and interesting communities that may have different viewpoints here and there.
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
Me migrating to another instance still allows me to participate here in world, and I simply ignore what I don’t like here and elsewhere.
Honestly, world has as many issues with gatekeeping and power hungry mods as instances and the only way to get the full lemmy experience is to pick and chose what fits best with oneself
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
You say be more inclusive of tankies and I say learn about the paradox of tolerance.
It’s not wall to wall tankees , this is only a minority. Which for the non tanker, can be avoided and ignored.
I was talking more of a general problem by deciding what I wanted to censor myself rather than letting others do it for me. Baby and bath water analogy and all that.
And this extends way beyond tankees and piracy.
And since people are talking about hexbear, it does have the best Syrian news coverage
Yup, that’s pretty much spot on. I don’t really have a problem with .world myself. I do hear a lot of complaints about admin powertrips, but I’ve never used .world so I have not experienced this myself.
The problem is that the tankies are running the instance and get off on banning anyone that doesn’t toe the line of the party ideology.
Please remember that some people don’t know the lingo yet.
New people for example. New people who might come to this thread trying to learn about the different instances.
They’ve got Google.
All responsible server admins have them defederated. Hate speech and genocide denial, that is almost certainly against the law in Canada, Germany, and other places. We defederated lemmygrad for the same reason.
I specifically chose my instance because it’s not blocked or being blocked by too many instances.
I’d rather judge myself what I want to be exposed to.
I guess server admins who haven’t defederated them are either with them ORRR they put more responsibility towards their users.
Or they live in a country where genocide denial is legal. I live in Canada and my server is in Canada. I’m not willing to take the risk so my users can interact with assholes.
I thought the same thing, but got worn down by the constant negativity and rage.
In your instance’ case, db0 has said IIRC that the Anarchists on Hexbear, while not aligning 100% with them, are generally good and worth being federated with.
There is an instance block feature you can use in the settings as a user, that seems to work pretty well for not seeing hexbear stuff
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I got a bit of harassment from hexbear users when I started using Lemmy, haven’t in a while now though, I have blocked around 30 of them and instance block
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They were founded after being kicked off reddit, then self isolated from the fediverse for years, creating the echoiest of echo chambers. It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all. They’ve spent too long “struggle sessioning” together and driven out any of the more reasonable users with their purity tests. They think they’re the “true” Lemmy users and only refederated to “spread the word” and antagonize all the “liberals” (read: anyone that’s not 100% with them). The one thing I dislike about my server is that they haven’t defederated from that place.
It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all.
Very apt description. You forgot the inbreeding part; very much relevant for Hexbear.
and antagonize all the “liberals” (read: anyone that’s not 100% with them).
Yup
I mean… Fuck liberals though
It’s like those Appalachian families that were so isolated they basically developed their own culture, language and all.
The fediverse has eyes.
purity tests
What purity test exactly do you feel is too much? Respecting pronouns? Not supporting capitalism? Not doing racism? I’m not aware of anything they ban for that any reasonable leftist shouldn’t pass.
I’m not aware of anything they ban for that any reasonable leftist shouldn’t pass.
Not sucking Xi’s or Putins dick for one, tankie
Anti-imperialism should not wrap around to supporting everyone and everything fighting against the imperial core. You can theorize about the social conditions that inevitably led to Putin’s existence or share statistics about development in China, but you shouldn’t ignore it when either does something bad just because “the US is also doing that/something similar!!!”
Found the hexbearian. 🤦🏼♂️
I didn’t say ban.
Thank you! You seem like a pre-Reddit-fallout-lemmy-user :)
I specifically chose my instance because it’s not blocking or blocked by too many instances. I like the input from most sides, but will not comment much on hexbear posts I guess. Not worth it.
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What do you mean “they think they are the true Lemmy users?” Most on Hexbear only browse the local feed. Secondly, which struggle session got rid of the “reasonable people?” Are you referring to the time they kicked out all of the transphobes, and now have one of the largest concentrations of trans individuals on Lemmy? Genuinely, what “reasonable” opinion has been discarded?
Any server federated with them is unusable as far as I’m concerned.
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that’s insulting to 14 year olds
It’s where r/chapotraphouse went after it got banned from reddit.
That sub was so disappointing. I stumped upon it by mistake one day, thinking that I’d find cheapo trap house music there. It sounded like a fun genre to listen to, like back in the early 2010s when brostep was huge. Miss those days…
I miss old school dubstep, brostep took the scene and made it into a monster energy drink ad.
The only people I know who like that stuff are Europeans, and the kind of DJs who use Traktor. Never heard of anyone outside of the internet who actually enjoyed dubstep until it was Americanized.
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year. There’s so much wrong there it’s kind of hard to know where to begin.
All I will really say for now is that they are perfect anti advocates for the things at the surface level they advocate for.
You would think having a healthy discourse and talking to each other, exchanging ideas would be better to proliferate a certain ideology.
All they do is try to insult or demand one is an all knowing being. Some read my comment and assume I’m from us and have to know every agency there is.
If they want to bring their ideologies out there they should stop trying to be destructive. All they accomplish is a negative image of their movement.
It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
They existed on their own Lemmy instance for years before federating at some point last year.
So, they likely had their own way of interacting, commenting, moderating etc that worked for them, that they had used/built/developed themselves (I mean systems & rules, not software) for years.
And they federated shortly after the Reddit API exodus.
So an echo chamber of extreme left wing users suddenly getting to interact with a whole bunch of new people, and an inrush of more mainstream users. It made for an interesting 6 or so months.I haven’t had any bad interactions with them directly, however I have seen and disagreed with a lot of their behaviour.
Not sure if I have their instance blocked, or if my instance has defederated them.Certain authoritarian ideologies and well, ideologies in general. Depend on rejecting ideas and evidence. Ideologies are ideal, but not real. So it tends to devolve into shouting and name calling. Leninists hypocritically haranguing liberals and vice versa etc.
I would definitely be down for some anarco communism. But I think it’s offensive to repeat the misnomer that ML is communism. Or ever has, ever will lead to communism. Anyone who looks to enact change through brutal, murderous suppression via a vanguard party. Could hardly exude a more juvenile thinking vibe. That “it’s okay/good when we do it” BS.
Weird how an ideology that depends on rejecting ideas and evidence keeps adapting to new evidence and contexts.
I wonder why Cuban marxism is so different than Chinese marxism which is different from Soviet marxism, which is different from every south american country’s marxisms.
One might even think they’re taking a Scientific approach to Socialism.
Interesting how in every case, they betray their anarchist allies as soon as they get even a feeble hold of state power. There must be a really good peer reviewed paper that conclusively suggests that must be done. Scientifically.
I learned something from your comment. Thank you.
Explains a lot of things that happen rn. Gaza, Ukraine, harsh cut between right/left.
It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
Yes. Exactly.
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year.
.world was never federated with hexbear, .world defederated “preemptively, as a last resort”
This perception is common on .world because some liberals have been lying about hexbear to encourage censoring the left even before then.
I must have misremembered lemmygrad then. Same difference. I’ve encountered hexbears on other servers. It’s one of many reasons I don’t log into Midwest.social for instance. Well more that their hardware is overloaded. But federation with grad and hex is still a good reason.
Quoting your other comment:
China is the largest economy in the world and has brought nearly a billion people out of poverty. Within a single lifetime, the USSR went from peasant farmers experiencing regular famine to putting people in space. And then capitalism brought back famine in the 90s. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than America.
If it talks like a tankie and quacks like a tankie…
Hahahaha, many of us have had first hand experience of hex - they attack people for the littlest ring, insult, denigrate, etc.
So stop your gaslighting.
What little thing are you being attacked for? The worst I’ve experienced was being called an atlanticist in a discussion on North Korean military preparedness.
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Any link to doxxing?
Demented illogical people. Also angry and bloodthirsty. Best to not interact. Waste of time.
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How is Marx and Lenin and things associated with transgender stuff? I never understood that
Marxist-Leninists side with the marginalized communities in society because
- It’s the correct thing to do, morally, and
- The only way to gain real progress is to unify marginalized groups, rather than have individual groups fight separately.
I include works that go over these topics in my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list. Marx and Lenin didn’t really write on transgender struggles, but provided a logical framework of analysis and toolset that logically leads to support for the trans community along with other marginalized groups.
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Great! Parenti has such a witty way of writing, and does a fantastic job contextualizing and humanizing the people of the Global South and AES states. Glad to hear I’ve helped guide you towards his books!
Side note - I really like the mini-genre of Parenti Lofi, his speeches are great and his passion combined with more chill vibes is a good combo, like sweet and salty!
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No problem!
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Thank you
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John Lenin was a Black Women? Shit…I need to read more books…
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I googled that, is that the YouTuber? Cause the account looks to be suspended or locked.
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Fair enough lol
Which client do you use?
The fringes of the political “wings” (left and right) seem similar to me, not so much in policy but in the rabid, simplistic attitudes and outright derision constantly sputtered.
Well put!
Policy is similar too, they want civil unrest and violent overthrow of current governments
Hexbear isn’t being paid for anything, they are largely made up of Anarchists and Marxist-Leninists. Hexbear has been unafilliated with Lemmy for years before integrating with Lemmy a year ago.
You might be seeing their zero tolerance policy for liberalism in action, but if you genuinely want to know what their users are about, just visit it. Just hop on over to Hexbear.net and scroll the news megathread and whatnot, try to understand what’s going on.
Finally, I want to question why you believe anyone would be paid to mess with Lemmy, moreover when the lead developers are aligned fairly closely on ideological lines. If they were here to “cause chaos,” why would the devs support them ideologically? To ruin their own network? That narrative is just a wild hypothesis.
I just don’t get all the anti-hexbear hate I see on other Lemmy servers. Questioning your mainstream/western/capitalist beliefs and arguing about it shouldn’t be ground for blocking them. I have yet to see any egregious behavior from them. Sure, I see somewhat outrageous takes on their own hosted communities, but have yet to see them cross the line on other servers.
Setting aside the content of their comments, I have often found their commenting style to be obnoxious or rude. They’re free to do their thing of course, but since I’m not into it, I’ve blocked that instance. Over time I’ve seen fewer and fewer comments from hexbear users, and I imagine that’s because some instances have chosen to defederate from them.
Yes, a lot of instances have blocked them, and I have yet to see a proper justification for it, other than that they confront people’s beliefs. As for being obnoxious or rude, I would love to see some example exchanges that make people think that. Unfortunately that has been difficult to come by so far. From what I have seen, they call people liberals, fascists, etc, and in turn people call them tankies, etc. Seems fairly even to me so far.
I don’t have sample exchanges at the ready, but I take issue with the gigantic stickers, the unwarranted confrontational tone, and the childish namecalling.
I understand that the gigantic stickers thing was actually a bug that has been fixed several Lemmy versions ago. I haven’t seen a giant sticker/emoji from hexbear in quite a while. I can sort of understand what you’re saying about the confrontational tone and namecalling though.
and in turn people call them tankies,
It’s hard not to when their first message is a dismissive “another fucking lib 🙄”. You try to be civil but every comment after that is along those lines. It only sounds fair when you don’t consider the rest of the context.
Understood. If it is as you described and some of their responses were disproportionate relative to your posts, then that’s regrettable.
Tribalism is a hell of a drug, and generally speaking people don’t like it when you support fascists that aren’t on your team.
That said, I don’t think my instance is federated with them so I only see their comments in rare circumstances, and even then half their takes are straight from RT
According to https://midwest.social/instances, it does not appear that your instance has blocked hexbear (see blocked tab), so your not seeing much of them seems to reinforce the idea that blocking them doesn’t seem justified. (Edited for clarity).
I block them through the app too lol
That’s definitely not perfect though. You won’t see the instance itself but they’ll pop up in comments
Questioning your mainstream/western/capitalist beliefs and arguing about it
I wish that’s what they actually did. Instead we get 12 year-old Twitch chatters pretending to be wiser than thou punching down
I have yet to see any egregious behavior
Lucky you!
But that’s another complaint without providing actual examples. I could just as easily complain about the same things from liberal lemmy.world posters.
Fair enough. I wish I had saved the thread that time I got piled on by 40 Hexbear and .ml users acting like children when they misunderstood my point about communism. It would’ve been a great example of their pretentious and shallow meme culture.
I’m sorry to hear that you had that experience. I can imagine that the tendency of some people online to pile on is only magnified and strengthened when socialists and communists who feel that their ideology has been unjustly maligned and distorted for the last several decades finally find a group of people who think like they do.
How about the comment further up - “daily dot world self-soothing thread” ?
I don’t understand. Are you referring to another comment on this thread? I don’t find another comment here doing a search for either daily or soothing. Link?
A reply to the original post, from a lemmy.ml account. I blocked them, so I can’t link you to it.
I see, thanks. I’ll see if I can find it.
Because they turn everything into a debate. I don’t want to constantly be called a “lib” just because I don’t think communism is the solution. These people would turn everything comment section into a warzone, even after I left all political communities. Even meme communities and communities about random unrelated topics became a minefield. I come here to destress and read some interesting stuff about topics I enjoy, not to be piled onto by 5 commies and be called a filthy lib for daring to say anything that doesn’t fit their view. I’m left-wing myself, but to them everything to their right is evil. I’m happy I don’t see their poison anymore
Ok, I understand you feel that way and believe that you’re being sincere. I just rarely get to see actual examples to back up all the complaints. Like someone else commented on some other thread I read today, I see 10x more complaints about hexbears and tankies than I see actual bad behavior from them.
I think generally it’s calmed down over the past 12 months and don’t see so much shitty behaviour like we used to. There would be a tendency for them to jump onto a thread and swarms of them would dogpile onto people spamming them with pictures and antagonize people.
Thanks for providing a bigger picture of the pattern.
Hexbear is sweet. Those people care more about the average human than liberals could ever imagine. If you dont understand them, try learning instead of being confused forever. I post this knowing I’ll get dunked by .world, but this is what solidarity looks like.
They care about the average human
Just 2 months ago they were celebrating the death of inocent civilians in 9/11 as if it was a holiday.
my ex and i incorporated 9/11 jokes into our sex life five years ago. it’s been long enough
I don’t mind jokes on the topic. It definitely wasn’t some jokes, tho, they were actively celebrating it, wishing each other a happy 9/11 and hoping for a similar event to happen soon.
I don’t know, for me it went past the “just a prank, bro” scale.
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Hahahaha, right, right, which is exemplified with them telling people to die, right?
Take your gaslighting elsewhere.
Ah spoken like a true Tankie.
Different instance, different ideology.
Example: there used to be a nazi insrance called exploding-heads.com (or was it .net?anyways, doesnt matter), basically you just dont interact with them, eventually they got defedersted by many instances.
Lemmygrad and Hexbear are Marxist Leninists, the same ideology of USSR and China. Get it now?
If you disagree, just block their instance in your user settings.
Unfortunately, blocking an instance in settings don’t block their users from commenting in other instance’s communities. So you gotta either (1) use an app to block the users too, or (2) find an instance that defederates them.
What I really like about lemmy is the system critical mentality.
I don’t have a problem with people having different political ideologies. But I think that constructive discourse is in everyone interest. These people dgaf. They are everything but constructive.
Regardless of ideology, there are just some people with whom you will never be able to have a rational discussion.
Tankie authoritarians…maga incels…the block button works on them all.
Ahhh, that’s what the alt-right instance was called. Thank you. I was consistently getting hexbear and exploding heads crossed in my head. For … some reason.
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While most users on hexbear are MLs, there’s still contingents of anarchists, like 2 trots, and some other left ideologies.
Can’t say I’ve noticed a problem tbh.
Me neither. Of course I have the instance blocked and every user I see comment; so that probably helps.
I can’t either.
