- cross-posted to:
- pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub
- cross-posted to:
- pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub
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I like all the comments ready to take a fisting in the ass from Microsoft just to keep Windows 10.
If you raised a fucking stink instead of taking this shitty deal, they may be forced to keep supporting it for free anyway like they did with Windows 7.
They’ve really got you guys cowed into paying for the convenience of getting fucked, don’t they?
This is a company with a market cap of $3.04 trillion and you guys are just gonna bend over and take it for $30 bucks? Wew lad. They don’t need your fucking thirty dollars, and you fucking know it. It’s a god damned shakedown.
Microsoft: Wouldn’t it be a shame if your computer was somehow insecure and got hacked?
Sounds like a Mafioso showing up for protection money to me.
EDIT: There’s still about 700 million Windows 10 PC’s still on the market. If every single existing Windows 10 machine paid for this service, Microsoft would make $21 billion dollars next year off this alone. It’s a shakedown, do the fucking math. (700,000,000 x $30 = $21,000,000,000) Even if only half do it, it’s still a cool $10.5 billion.
EDIT II: This also normalizes the practice of paying for security updates for consumers. You really want to take us down that path where every security update is paid?
Microsoft: heh heh heh, looks like you’ll be paying me $30 for that windows 10 installation.
Me: Bitch, I’m on Windows 7, and keep ignoring the OS bitching at me to turn the firewall on!
if that is connected to the internet, its probably infested
It’s fiiiiiiine! What’s the worst that could happen?
To be fair, that really depends what you use your PC for. Looking at youtube without a profile, and reddit and the news, playing music, offline games. You will be 100% fine. If you have to log into somewhere with sensitive data, don’t. But as a secondary device you PROBABLY will be fine. Requires significant discipline, to not accidentally log into facebook on it though.
Me not logging into facebook doesn’t require discipline. I haven’t done it in…
checks time
…ever.
Now, I DO log into government nuke code websites. And I also check Burger King’s website. Just to see if they still sell burgers.
As of last week…they do!
See for exaple the fact wheter you ‘have’ to have facebook kinda locates you as an American. This is the issue with ‘sensitive’ data you may or may not know what it is.
How?
unpatched vulnerabilities
Why are people on your LAN exploiting vulnerabilities on your computer? Don’t you also have a network firewall and NAT?
The biggest danger isn’t viruses sneaking their way in, it’s from the web browser and email client.
It would make sense if Microsoft was liable for any security faults. I’d actually pay for something like that but of course you’re probably paying for some nebulous promise of something between security at best effort basis and whatever they feel like.
What an idiotic perspective. Microsoft has supported W10 for literally 12 years at the cutoff date. Show me another software product that receives TWELVE YEARS worth of free support. 30 bucks is fair enough. For enterprises this is play money, if you are a private, you could upgrade fucking 7 keys. Which means, you didn’t need to pay a fucking cent to MS since 2007. No one has ever matched this kinda support. Ten percent of this is considered fucking generous.
And herre is a thought for you. The reason why windows is full of adware and spyware is precisely because of dickheads, who won’t pay 30 fucking dollars EVERY TWENTY YEARS. This is your fault.
Remember when Microsoft said Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows?
The last usable windows, maybe
Hmm, but did they say the last version of Windows, or the last version of Windows you’re going to buy? And if it’s the latter, is the upgrade to Windows 11 free? If yes, then technically it’s still correct.
I just wish I could buy a copy of windows 11 that didn’t have any telemetry or AI.
IoT LTSC or just plain LTSC https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
r/technicallythetruth ?
Remember when Billiam Gates said nobody would ever need more than 640kb of RAM?
Yup, then Javascript was invented
I mean, that was back when if you wanted a home computer, you were building it yourself from parts from Radio Shack. Not exactly the same thing. I’m not certain that even Apple had the Apple 1 out at that point. I know they hadn’t made the Mac 128k, and weren’t going to for several years.
I haven’t ever met anyone that thought Bill Gates was prescient, just a lucky businessman.
The joke being that he didn’t actually say it, same as Microsoft never stating 10 being the last version of Windows ever
I 'member.
Twas Dickity 14 or so, and I plan to make good on Microsofts words.
I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the fashion at the time
They never actually said this. Some MS Engineer did and the press ran with it.
And even that engineer only said “last” to mean “latest”, which is obvious from context, but why let that get in the way of clickbaity articles.
It happens a lot by german talking people. Latest and last are the same word here
That’s the stupidest way to say that. Of course when it’s released it will be the latest release.
He was asked what they are working on now that they released Windows 10. He said they are still working on Windows 10 as it’s the last (latest) release of Windows and still being developed. Yes he could have worded it better.
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Considering that when people paid $100 for that OS they were told that it would be the “last Windows to be released”, shouldn’t there be a class action lawsuit?
They weren’t told that, that was an off-hand comment by an employee (not even a spokesperson) that the media took and ran with. Source:
Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.
I think they meant “latest” not “last.”
For what it’s worth
“Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
Windows will be delivered as a service
Which is largely true, there have been a number of “service packs” that were released as regular updates throughout the Windows 10 lifespan. So it definitely seems they want people to not think about the specific Windows version they’re on. From that article:
Microsoft could opt for Windows 11 or Windows 12 in future, but if people upgrade to Windows 10 and the regular updates do the trick then everyone will just settle for just “Windows” without even worrying about the version number.
Windows 7, for example, had one major service pack, with a few isolated updates, whereas Windows 10 had a major update about every 6 months, and each one of those checkpoints was supported for about a year and a half. The final update was at the end of 2022, and it’s support runs 3 years.
So yeah, I think they met what they said, but the messaging wasn’t particularly clear how long that support would be provided for.
$30 to not have to deal with Windows 11 for another year feels like the deal of the century.
I love how they’re like ‘but you won’t get new features!’. They may have still not figured out that nobody cares about ‘new features’ being stuffed into the OS, but I guess you can’t have everything.
I just want all windows games to run on linux with equivalent performance and without anticheat hurdles. After that happens i’m done with windows.
Honestly, i’m really not that far off as-is. Steam Deck already runs most of my library, it’s just the games that don’t work with a controller that are a problem.
This is already true for the vast majority of games. 🤷♂️
Linux will get multiplayer game support from those straggler game companies when people show the userbase is there. They will always follow the money. So if you stay with Windows the devs won’t support Linux. So saying “I’ll move to Linux once they support it”, will ensure they will never support it.
My suggestion is to dual-boot for now and keep putting pressure on the game devs to support Linux. It’s important to dual boot and run as many games on Linux as possible for now to show in the steam metrics that more people are leaving Windows.
I just want all windows games to run on linux with equivalent performance and without anticheat hurdles. After that happens i’m done with windows.
That’s one strategy. Mine is to just say “fuck it” until the devs and studios make their games more playable on Linux. I can deal with not playing some games to make that happen. That’s not for everyone though.
Switching to a better non-mainstream alternative to anything always brings some compatibility pains until enough are doing it to where the tide shifts. I accept this.
You can get a dock and plug in a mouse and keyboard, a monitor, etc…
I would just use my desktop for that use case. There’s still a small minority of games that just don’t work via proton but it’s really a minority.
I’ve also seen a handful of games with linux builds that just don’t run properly because they update the game but don’t do enough QA to the linux build or simply don’t put resources towards linux issues to the same degree that windows gets.
I ran PopOS on linux for years, every game I had worked, and actually performed better than on Windows, once Proton got to version 7.
- with the exception of games that run multiplayer kernel level anti cheat.
** oh and almost all of those games use anti cheats that are compatible with linux/proton, and have been for 3 years, but the game devs/management just refuse to enable that support, even though its already included in their contracts with AC providers for no extra cost.
As do I buddy, as do I.
But unfortunately, we only get “most” games running on Linux w/ similar if not equivalent performance. Unfortunately, game devs for some reason refuse to support Linux w/ their anti-cheat implementations (even if the anti-cheat solution works fine on Linux), so getting to 100% is going to take some time and a lot of people shifting to Linux despite not every game working perfectly. Most do though.
Consider that Microsoft will have supported Windows 10 for 10 years as of next year, I will say it had a good run. Considering the longest support cycle for an OS I can find that is even remotely usable as a daily is Slackware 14.1, at 9 years, and support ended for that almost a year ago.
Windows hasn’t added any features of value since Windows 7.
I mean, the HDR support and multi window snapping, as well as remembering window positions on multiple displays.
Counterpoint, if you have two monitors with different DPI scaling, window dimensions get butchered when moving between them
This annoys the shit out of me on a daily basis
Powertoys and fancyzones in particular has been amazing with the proliferation of large monitors. Saves so much time and effort to configure windows. Don’t understand why it is an optional utility and not built into the OS.
Windows hasn’t added any features of value since Windows
7XPUhh, driver support and networking have vastly improved since Windows XP.
If you had ever done a clean reinstall of XP, you’d know what a pain it was to make sure you had your NIC drivers on a floppy or USB drive before you started.
I was going to say XP, but 7 is so much better an experience than XP.
If you think that’s a good deal, I have some NFTs to sell you.
feels like the deal of the century.
For Microsoft, sure. If they capture all Windows 10 machines, they’re in for a $21 billion payday. If they get half of them, $10 billion. A quarter, $5 billion. An eighth, $2.5 billion.
Your $30 in aggregate is only a deal for Microsoft. They’ll ask for another $30 a year after that and now you’ve normalized paying for security updates.
A subscription for continued support seems fair. (If there are no ads).
And at this point I don’t trust Microsoft to not stuff them in there as a “last update for Windows 10”
Are you serious? It’s Microsoft.
No it doesn’t. We have any number of free and open source operating systems to choose from that are already more secure. The number of people in a situation where they absolutely need to run Windows specifically is small.
Someone has to pay for that work. Either volunteers are donating their time, corporations “donate” work of their employees or hire it out because use of the project generates profits for them and they recognize not everyone can be a parasite (The FOSS model)
The other alternative is users paying directly.
If you want to use a closed source os, then pay for updates or you will be monetized on other ways. (In the case of MS that would be ads or the OS is just an incidental product used to drive sales of software or cloud computing)
I think it’s fairly optimistic to believe that they’ll stop bugging you with the Windows 11 upgrade even if you do pay $30.
Wait. They want me to pay for something I already paid for?
Well guess my $2.5k new windowless machine is looking better everyday.
You actually paid for Windows?
Oh yeah. Windows XP Professional 64 bit. Each “upgrade” used the same license and never really got screwy until 10. Won’t go to 11.
Edit: Actually I don’t think I even paid for that, I think it was an OEM license my dad got from his work.
You know what’s shocking? I did. I ruined my desktop trying to set it up with some web server functions and wiping it somehow got rid of the license.
And so I paid to get rid of the watermark… boo!
There you go one last scary story for the season.
You already paid for an extended support contract?
See below: I started my machine off with an XP Professional 64bit license (I didn’t personally buy) in like 2006?
Because I kept the key for… Oh god 18 years, I always had the windows Pro versions. Windows 7 64 pro, Windows 8.1 Pro, and Windows 10 Pro.
What are you complaining about then?
They supported your hardware for 18 years even when it was only meant to be for a single OS version and now people still had the option of upgrading but the hardware is just too goddamn old. I’m not defending Microsoft I also think the requirements are too high for 11, but expecting even more from your key is just ridiculous.
I’m not.
It was sort of a joke. I’m not leaving windows for the price.
“Enrolled PCs will continue to receive Critical and Important security updates for Windows 10; however, new features, bug fixes, and technical support will no longer be available from Microsoft,” explains Yusuf Mehdi, executive vice president and consumer chief marketing officer at Microsoft.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Anyone who’s had to open a Microsoft support ticket can assure you technical support is already not available from Microsoft.
You have to be a really, really big company with an established connection with Microsoft to actually talk to the real engineers. Any tier of regular support only gets you the “sfc and clean boot” garbage.
Duh, they want the money
Why l would pay 30$ to dumpester fire OS to use it securely for another year when l could install Linux for free with more than 7 year security?
And consumers can only pay for single year.
It just shows how M$ doesn’t care about their costumers treating them like lab rats.
I switched to Linux myself but can we please stop lying about Linux being a drop-in replacement? There is enough sofware that does not work.
A lot of Linux users here think the conversation begins and ends with game support. A lot of us use our computers for work and there is a lot of productivity and creative software that does not play nice with Linux. I’ve probably said this a dozen times here before but I’ll say it again: Not all of us use our computers solely for gaming.
I’m a Linux user and I think the conversation should be:
More than half (over 60% ackshually) of Windows PCs in service are still Windows 10. Windows 11 barely cracks 34%.
People should boycott this and demand that Microsoft offer long-term support for Windows 10 like they did Windows 7 and stop trying to force Windows 11 on consumers through dark patterns like this. We have a year to make a huge about this deal in public spaces. This is the kind of thing the reddit userbase used to excel at getting word out about. Enough public outcry over a year could force the issue.
They made their own bed with the arbitrary TPM 2.0 requirement. They can drop that and they’d probably have more adoption of 11 overnight. These are business choices Microsoft is making, while ignoring the reality on the ground for a lot of people who never upgraded to something with a TPM 2.0 chip. It’s a choice to and a dark pattern to push them to upgrade.
I am kind of sick of the Linux users acting superior instead of being helpful to people stuck with Windows due to work environments, too.
I’m a Linux User (fuck windows) but I’m stuck with the wife wanting to use windows. So yeah I’ll always be on the lookout for helpful ways to keep that shit software from causing security problems in my home network.
theres also a lot of productivity and creative software that does. linux for work is way better than linux for gaming and id bet 80%+ of people can work off it much better.
Whats the best replacement for Excel? LibreCalc is ok but it lags really far behind Excel in intermediate features. My close friend in analytics switched back to Excel recently because he got so tired of dealing with LibreCalc.
Also do you know if the Affinity suite works well in Wine? Ive messed with a lot of software paid and libre for its purposes but just vibe with Affinity best
Im not asking to sound rude im asking because im genuinely looking down the barrel of this OS change and I do a lot of computer based hobbies and work that are going to be uprooted by this
Office 365. I hate it, but I don’t need a windows PC to use it.
both affinity and photoshop run well on wine for me. there are native tools like krita that work well for less complex use cases.
as for office i use some basic macros and calculations and libreoffice works for me, but there are many choices that may or may not work for your friend.
admittedly, software discovery on linux is awful. the app store isnt that good on some distros and theres basically no promotion.
Best replacement for excel is: anything that doesn’t rape your data whilst pouring sugar in you gas tank. /s
TLDR - R, Python, mariaDB, for real data analysis stuff + minor role for whatever spreadsheet package.
For hobbies / analysis / data manipulation , storage , graphs and general stats fuckery here’s my advice; as someone who does this stuff - “badly I might add” - for a shitty public sector organisation that just can’t decide whether to bend over M$ barrel or Oracle’s barrel:
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use R (via R-studio if you need an “environment”) for more statsy stuff and easier graphs.
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Python for more general mathsy / programmy / web scrapy stuff - can do decent graphs with libraries like plotly and matplotlib stuff like that, scipy, numpy, and pandas are the other basic libraries for analysis and maths and large datasets. peopl like using ‘jupyter notebooks’ - I don’t get it personally - but 50 Phil Ochs fans cant be that wrong.
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Set up a mariadb or something if you need databasey stuff, I doubt you need to look at more hardcore stuff like postgresql for “hobbying” ; my personal (1 user) databases were built several years ago and mariadb is just fine for that. but some of the high vol transactional DB at work do use postgresql.
These are all good to learn in my experience, even if you think they’re harder than excel; ( are they tho’? array formlae!?). They’re sort of interoperable - subject to learning. They - naturally - have their open-source annoyances.: a million ways to do everything, and versioning issues. (Excel still has fucking vlookup() tho’ - talk abut legacy baggage - but no it’s not as bad as the open souce maelstroms).
You can still ouput data into a spreadsheet for viewing formatting and messing with stuff - but there are other ways.
Footnote: Yes I do still use excel, but normally mostly for final formatted report for customer who wants it. Having R/python directly write data into excel is so much better than letting excel open anything. Excel just can’t let an innocent SNOMED code go unmolested; you have to be on high alert if you let excel actually do anything.
Also spreadsheet for messy data cleansing - for looking at mess, to help refine the R/python cleansing script. I’d happily use libre/ods for any of these but I don’t fancy putting the request in to IT and . . . having to speak to IT about it.
Yeah I’m just gonna tell our group of 55+ year old mechanical engineers to learn Python; that’ll go over really well /s
Surely they have to use stuff like mathcad or equivalent to be an engineer? I’ve never really used it but it can’t be that far off just doing the calculations in python. I think there’s “sagemath” too availabe for linux - i’m sure that’s not as good as mathcad - but aimed at the same thing i think - and i’m sure it will interoperate with python libraries and R and stuff like that.
I know there are people who claim to be “good at excel” well i only used it for about 15-20 years but then i guess never got “good” at it - i just learned moreabout how bad it is. . Those that were genuinely good at it , as far as I think, did a lot of extra work to mitigate the limitations or create crutches for it. I just got pissed off by it, so i was quite desperate to stop using it as much as possible - it’s just only recently i’ve been allowed to use what i think are more appropriate tools- and i;m grateful for this small, but likely closing “window” f opportunity.
If they’re happy with it though, who am I to judge. But if I was doing gemoetry and engineering calculations and ultimately cad, I know i’d not want excel anywhere near my data or my calculation methods.
I wonder if age is really their issue, or if they just DGAF - again if that’s the case, good for them.
I on the other hand will probably be walking out when they force us on windows 11 however good or bad it is. /management has already fucked us with sharepoint and dynamics - so maybe i’m just as bad as them when it comes to new fangled shit like: clouds, data-lakes, fabrics and other MS shite. I just want our data on a proper fucking filesystem, that we own. And our data somewhere I can SQL it.
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only office works well for me, feels much closer to word and excel
This exactly. I’m an engineer but day-to-day I’m mainly using the Office shite (I tried for suite but ended up with former and happy to run with it) to do my job. The amount of extraneous effort I have to make to do tasks that would have been simple in 2005 is completely ridiculous. Yet on my home computer running Arch BTW, I can do everything instantaneously, the only downside is that some supplier I don’t really care for wants my presentation in pptx. If it wasn’t for work data security requirements, I’d just use my personal equipment for everything because I’d be able to work so much faster.
Edit: not to mention a lot of FOSS software is better than the professional bullshit (AutoCAD needs to die), it’s just a lot more effort to get up to speed with because colleagues around you don’t know it (yet)
AutoCAD does need to die, but there absolutely is no real substitute for MasterCAM. I have a windows PC just for running that software, because nothing comes even kinda close. That license is expensive though, holy shit.
Have you tried Bottles and/or Wine?
I’ve never had a problem running anything from the Adobe or Microsoft Suite for example, in fact I think they run waaay smoother on linux
But yea I get it, a lot of people associate compatibility with gaming only.
Really? So I could use my Wacom Cintique and my 2024 versions of Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Animator on Linux then? Because I use them to make a living and if I cannot use them on Linux easily then there is no point.
As a former Linux user from the early 00’s the biggest hurdle was art software and convincing Linux users that Adobe software means more than just Photoshop……
Absolutely. Especially software that has to interface with specific hardware, which often times can have issues working properly with Windows VMs.
I can just dedicate some old hardware for baremetal Win10, but not everyone has that luxury.
There is enough sofware that does not work
What Linux software doesn’t work?
You took this out of the context it was in.
It comes with a free frozen yogurt. That Microsoft calls frogurt.
…you sob, I’m in.
His name is Neil!
They don’t expect home users to pay. Remember that they often refuse to even reboot their computers to receive security updates.
Extended support is pretty much intended exclusively for enterprises.
Thank you for your service to Linux adoption o7
Microsoft got the grift of a century. Make Win11 so bad that people will literally pay you NOT to force them onto it! /s
Seriously though, fuck Microsoft - $30 per year to roll out the occasional security update is obscene! They can go stuff themselves with their $3 trillion market cap
Can I give them 50 dollars and not have to use windows at all?
Better yet: you don’t have to pay Microsoft at all to make the switch!
I’m really surprised they haven’t managed to push Azure Linux into the fold. Release a desktop version, Find some way to make attractive for all those Windows 10 people ready to walk away. Then just slowly fold all the bullshit back in. They could even bring the gui completely Windows 10esque
The problem with that would be that it would make switching to another linux ditribution very, very easy. They would have 99.99% compatibility so a lot of people would switch to another distro if they add stuff like recall.
They would also be opening the can of worms that is massive software support for linux (which is arguably already opening.)
Heck, I’ll let you not use windows for $49.
Isn’t the free market great?
Still cheaper than my Arch Premium membership
How do you activate Arch Premium? I got that stupid “Activate” overlay on my desktop.
When you’ve shown that you’re skilled enough, they’ll contact you.
The Lords of Arch will let you know when they deem you worthy.
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avg linux user
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i use arch but i dont tell people about it wait shit
Fuck that. I already paid for the Pro edition of 10 specifically for features Windows 11 doesn’t have in any version. IDGAF if it’s free; it’s not an upgrade. It’s a downgrade.
I’m a windows user (on my game computers) and have never paid for windows lawl. I’m not about to start now.
This is like people complaining about how Ubuntu 16.04 LTS support ended not long ago (2021-04-29)
Or macOS 10.9 Mavericks (2016-12-01)
Or Android 6.0 (2018-08-01)
Or Debian 8 “Jessie” (2018-06-17)
Or Linux Mint 17 (2019-07-01)
Or Fedora 23 (2016-12-20)
Or Slackware 14.1 (2024-01-01)
Of all of these, not even Slackware comes close to how long Microsoft has supported Windows 10 post release (2015)
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros was not blocked by having only slightly old and perfectly serviceable hardware.
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros did not cost any money to the users, either.
Apple hardware would like to have a word with you.
32-bit -> 64-bit
Yes, but you don’t migrate to Windows 11 from those.
You do migrate to newer versions of those ossses with new de and backend lib versions, and all the breaking changes that entails which means spending another week chasing down broken stuff and learning how different things work now.
Which is about the same
windows 11 is not only about irreversible breaking changes
Windows XP. 2001–2019. If 10 beats that I’ll be impressed
2014… the POS edition (basically LTSC) was 2019
I’m counting that–which means I also have to count Windows 10 IoT, whose support ends in 2032. XP still wins!
I migrated someone running mission critical software off of CentOS 6 this year.
People hate upgrades.
If you’re somewhat tech savvy, don’t have anything against the high seas and absolutely need Windows, look into Windows 10 LTSC.
Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC specifically
That’s a great tip, thanks ! Do you know if I can upgrade my regular Windows 10 to this version without having to uninstall everything ?
While there may be a way to upgrade, general consensus is that it’s not possible and you should reinstall.
