- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
A man who attempted to vote twice in Virginia’s 2023 election was acquitted of attempted illegal voting on Monday, following his claims in court that he had been testing the system for voter fraud.
A Nelson County jury found 67-year-old Richardson Carter Bell Jr. not guilty of attempting to vote more than once in the same election. According to the Washington Post, Bell, a staunch supporter of former President Donald Trump, admitted voting early at his local registrar’s office only to also show up at a nearby polling place on Election Day.
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Meanwhile, because she’s black in Texas prosecutors are still trying to throw Crystal Mason in prison for an actual innocent mistake all the way back in 2016 - https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/civil-rights-attorneys-urge-court-to-uphold-crystal-masons-acquittal-in-fraud-case/3684918/
It wasn’t even her mistake. She was told by someone in authority that she was allowed to vote.
Crimes dont apply to the whites, you silly goose.
What a shitty website that doesn’t say a single fucking thing about what happened. It spirals into that jackass’ spew of lying bullshit and nothing real to understand jack fucking shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Mason
She cast a provisional ballot, a mechanism specifically designed to check and count a vote only if the voter is determined to be eligible, on the advice of a poll worker, and was sentenced for voter fraud.
So…basically…what I just said…again.
…but not the writer; rather Texas itself.
I’m going to go buy some crack to test the system. Let’s see how that turns out for me.
Just wear a MAGA hat, and you might pull it off.
If the majority of your county are crackheads and you opt for a jury trial you might just pull it off.
Laws are written in such a way that they don’t allow the jury to decide if what the person did was right or wrong, just if they did or did not do what was said.
Do you agree they had a pipe in their possession? Yes - jail.
Do you agree they had the drug on them?
Yes -jail.
The jury doesn’t get to decide if they think it was okay for them to have the pipe/drug on them. A lawyer does their best to spin it in a way that maybe makes it appear the officer illegally made a search to make all subsequent findings inadmissable and invalid for charging. Or that the possession was not actually the person. But usually it comes down to, we found this on your person… And conviction of possession.
From said page:
In 1988, the Sixth Circuit upheld a jury instruction: “There is no such thing as valid jury nullification.” In United States v. Thomas (1997), the Second Circuit ruled that jurors can be removed if there is evidence that they intend to nullify the law. The Supreme Court has not recently confronted the issue of jury nullification. In 2017, a jury was instructed: “You cannot substitute your sense of justice, whatever that means, for your duty to follow the law, whether you agree with it or not. It is not for you to determine whether the law is just or whether the law is unjust. That cannot be your task. There is no such thing as valid jury nullification. You would violate your oath and the law if you willfully brought a verdict contrary to the law given to you in this case.” The Ninth Circuit upheld the first three sentences of the jury’s instruction and overruled the remainder but deemed that instruction a harmless error and affirmed the conviction.[67]
Looks like it will get messy about whether such would be allowed, and whether you yourself could catch trouble for ruling against the law.
Consider reviewing my initial comment, pay particular attention to if, and, and might
That’s what they want you to think. You can, in fact, decide you think the law is unjust and acquit. You can just feel bad for the defendant, or think the protection is being too harsh
The judge isn’t going to tell you that, they’re going to tell you to follow their guidance
You can’t be punished for a jury verdict, and you can’t be compelled to return a certain verdict
Tuna Cowboy discussed that below, it appears there are cases that show otherwise listed on the link he sent. In theory that is how jury’s should work. From said page:
In 1988, the Sixth Circuit upheld a jury instruction: “There is no such thing as valid jury nullification.” In United States v. Thomas (1997), the Second Circuit ruled that jurors can be removed if there is evidence that they intend to nullify the law. The Supreme Court has not recently confronted the issue of jury nullification. In 2017, a jury was instructed: “You cannot substitute your sense of justice, whatever that means, for your duty to follow the law, whether you agree with it or not. It is not for you to determine whether the law is just or whether the law is unjust. That cannot be your task. There is no such thing as valid jury nullification. You would violate your oath and the law if you willfully brought a verdict contrary to the law given to you in this case.” The Ninth Circuit upheld the first three sentences of the jury’s instruction and overruled the remainder but deemed that instruction a harmless error and affirmed the conviction.[67]
Looks like it will get messy about whether such would be allowed, and whether you yourself could catch trouble for ruling against the law.
Reading through all of it, it’s exactly as I thought it was, but I kept the complexity out
You cannot give jury instructions related to jury nullification. The judge can’t get anywhere near the topic, and lawyers cannot directly argue the jury should acquit based on the law being unjust (they can certainly imply it though)
You cannot have already decided your verdict before the case, including based on the law involved. This is generally a moot point, because jury selection should catch this. If it doesn’t and you didn’t lie, then that’s on the judge
So, they will never tell you that you have this power as a juror. But you do, in all cases
The only complicated part is on the part of the judge and the defense
Yeah, much of the issues brought up seem to be tied to prohibition where if guilty charges increased dramatically (roughly from 3 to 30 percent) it would say they are entering with a predetermined thought of going against the law. The other common cases brought up were all tied to racism.
Wow, that’s a lot less than 5 years. And he even did it on purpose!!!
The “testing” excuse is totally irrelevant, but he is white and he is Republican…White, republican, yet was still found not guilty by a jury?! :O
Wtf, meanwhile you can go to prison for a sting operation where a victim does not exist or the illegal item/items you are buying do not actually exist
Rob a liquor store with an unloaded gun but someone present has a heart attack? Murder.
Rob a liquor store with an unloaded gun but the guy behind the counter pulls out a loaded one and kills your accomplise? Also murder.
Buy some heroin for you and your partner to use, leading you both to overdose, but you survive? Believe it or not, also murder.
e; Whether or not you think these make sense is beside the point, it’s an obvious double standard when the lack of intent doesn’t matter for these crimes but it gets this guy a walk
The first one I can kind of agree with tbh.
The second one too. If you’re committing a crime and someone dies as a direct result of that crime, it’s on you.
The hard part is that “direct” is subjective and up to interpretation of the court.
Depends on the state. In mine it doesn’t matter. If someone dies while you’re committing a crime, you’re responsible regardless.
No, because it isn’t proportional.
A homeless man stealing a bottle of water with a security guard shooting up half the store due to bad aim as a result should not be charged for murder.
Besides, murder should always require intent to kill. Robbery - including armed robbery - does not usually imply this.
Those are two separate crime scenarios. The homeless person couldn’t be charged with murder.
What if we alter the scenario slightly?
The homeless man ran “aggressively” through the checkouts (without paying for the water bottle of course) and the police “believed” he had a knife to force his way through. Water bottles sure look like knifes sometimes after all.
I’m fairly certain the homeless man would be charged with felony murder if the police shot bystanders (and the homeless man survived).
I would say the person doing the crime himself is to blame for his own death. I think there’s a difference between an accomplice and an innocent dying.
But its a fine line, I agree, and also depends on other variables. If I start applying it to other examples:
If you are trespassing in a train tunnel doing graffiti, the train comes and you get out but your buddy gets hit, is it murder? I’d say not really.
If you’re racing and your buddy hits a tree, it’s not really murder either yet he wouldn’t of been racing alone. It’s a two player sport so I’d tend to say guilty.
Would your buddy have stayed home instead of robbing the store if you weren’t there to help him, it’s hard to say but I’d tend to go not guilty.
It also seems a bit vindictive but like I said, I understand the sentiment.
Usually the line is when someone dies in the commission of a felony.
Someone should argue that every arrest made by undercover officers pretending to be prostitutes should be thrown out under this.
Just because you said yes, or even paid, doesn’t mean you would have actually had sex, so you in reality could have just paid to “test” if the prostitute would actually agree.
What’s funny is, the system failed the test! If it worked, he would be in jail.
If the system worked, Trump would be rotting in solitary confinement, not running for president
Also that yeah
So he apparently didn’t actually vote twice. He voted early. Then, on the day of the election he went to a polling place to attempt to vote again. When they looked up his name, they saw he had already voted and presumably didn’t allow him to vote again. Because he didn’t actually vote twice, there’s no way they’d be able to find him guilty of voting twice. That’d be like charging someone with murder where the victim is still alive. They ended up charging him with attempted voter fraud. And if he told them something like “Had they allowed me in and given me a ballot I would not have filled it out and voted again. I was just testing the system.” I could see people going easy on one of their own.
We punish people for DUI’s harshly because they COULD cause harm. They get charges beyond the DUI when someone IS harmed. This is like saying a person drove a car at parade full speed but ran into a baracade. “I was just testing the baracade to make sure the people in the parade would be safe.”
What happens if, and I use a strong IF, a democrat did this? Oh, yeah, honest mistakes aren’t allowed, but blatant flouting of laws is? do I need to put the /s?
republican voter attempts fully conscious and premeditated fraud attempt, immediately caught/failed, admits to willful fraud, found not guilty, voter and lawyer hold hands and yell, “it’s rigged, stop the steal”
Seriously, go read full transcript of statements from this fucking goon throughout the process. Outrageously stupid.
Yeah! And I was just testing the banks security!
The fuck…?
If this were British Columbia, before you vote you must make a declaration that you are eligible and did not vote already.
If you voted earlier/somewhere else, you could choose to show up at any polling place later, as long as you do not make the false declaration to receive your second ballot, you will not have committed fraud. The election person can be like, oh the digital record shows you voted already, and you can walk out. In remote areas, the paper voter roll of local voters will show whether they know you voted or not but other paper locations will not (if your polling location was way out in the sticks and you went to another rural place to vote). Mail ins are much the same, your name and signature on the declaration is the same thing as the verbal affirmation.
I know Trump’s supporters are bad at logic, but this should show that these processes stop enough voter fraud to the point that you it’s not really they need to get all worked up about.
What the actual fuck
brb. gotta do a test of my local banks security systems.
I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise. He’ll be a state senator by Xmas.
Dripping with remorse, no malicious intent to commit butter fraud and so very deserving of acquittal…
“On Tuesday, the firm representing Bell, posted on Facebook: “Another NOT GUILTY on all charges!” Attached to the post was a photo of Bell wearing a red MAGA hat, referencing Trump’s “Make America Great Again” platform.”
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https://apnews.com/article/voters-virginia-election-trial-fraud-f622efe3df029186ca527f9a254c2ebe
