In Washington state, you can just be nude. As long as you are not doing anything to be “obscene”.
Oregon too, last I knew at least.
This is, in fact, what makes Portland’s annual naked bike ride event possible.
Naked siblings, through and through.
What are you doing, step-city?
Whipping out my Oregon
Yes, Portland had decriminalized public nudity if participating in a peaceful protest, while not engaging in sexual conduct, and away from certain restricted areas like parks and schools. The annual naked bike ride is an organized peaceful protest that chooses its route appropriately as to not encroach on any areas where public nudity would otherwise be prohibited.
Same goes for NY.
I know this because at the college I worked at, a city public safety officer walked up to a young man who was sunbathing on campus thinking it was a woman, and told him to put his shirt back on or be charged with indecency or something. The school was outraged and had a shirtless demonstration march around town.
Did a I mention it was an all girls school?
I found this map: https://gotopless.org/topless-laws The religion behind this site seems kind of strange.
The religion behind this site seems kind of strange.
Extraterrestrials Created All Life On Earth
Let’s Build An Embassy To Welcome Them
Thats a more plausible explanation than what the big religions offer.
Just a different version of the same explanation
I like to think life crashed onto earth innitially from an astroid. Then life evolved from single cell organisms into…this.
Coincidently enough, life crashing onto earth on an astroid is exactly what the black suit symbiot was in the spiderman comics. After Spiderman got rid of it, it bonded with Eddie Brock to form Venom!
Oh lol, it’s the Raelians.
There is a gallery, for research purposes.
Praise be
You guys stumbled upon Raëlism! A cult that originated in France. I have firsthand experience. I met a “Raelian Guide” at a convention and gave a presentation on his religion. They mention the topless stuff, and they’re also anti-genital mutilation. But they also wish to reclaim the Swastika as a symbol of peace and love.
During this presentation, the guide, in talking about reclaiming the Swastika, "it was traditionally a symbol of peace and love, but you all wouldn’t learn about that in our Jewish controlled education system. " (Word for word what he said in front of 100~ people)
They’re, uhh, Nazis.
Im all for reclaiming the swastika, but you lost me at “the Jews control…”
I’ve used this site in the past but never noticed they were out of their damn minds
Maybe they LOST their mnds?
Eh? I have definitely gone around topless in NY a couple times and wasn’t bothered over it. To be fair, it was Pride. To be extra fair, it was almost 100 and everybody was dying. I do remember a couple times on the news where they would have to remind the police in NYS that it is legal on a couple roasting summers. I am definitely not the best at keeping the bits well covered in general. Still far better up here than when I used to live in Texas.
What’s an all-girls school? Like what do they do when a man applies?
Might be starting to dox myself but they have a separate campus that is mixed.
Free the boobies
It’s really just free the nipple, which highlights how ridiculous it is. Even more so when you see images where male nipples have been pasted over female nipples, which would theoretically make those images ok.
I’m getting flashbacks to Tumblr’s “female-presenting nipples” censorship rules during the porn ban.
We need to switch from our current American view that all nudity is sexual. If you see a someone naked doesn’t automatically make it sexual!
I mean, sure. But also need to switch from our current US American view that sexuality is bad
True! My first thought is usually drugs without further context.
I agree. There’s such shame and disgust around the work of art that is the human body that really needs to be worked on.
Some of y’all should be ashamed.
Projection much?
No u!!!
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I’m a cis heterosexual male. I love all things about a women’s body, but I’m mature enough to not pop a boner just because I see a naked attractive woman. Like is that honestly hard for some healthy adult men?! Like if that woman and I are making sexual advances towards each, game on! Otherwise, what’s the big deal?
You are talking about culture not purely biological. Before clothing men weren’t walking around with erections all day. Same thing goes for many other cultures. The obsession with seeing anything naked is because we treat all nudity equally when it’s not. I see it as a personal control and character issue that is ingrained in western and Abrahamic religions areas.
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As long as you keep your inner monolog to yourself and are not ogling at the women I don’t see it as problematic. But you should still try to decoupling your sexual desires from non sexual situations.
I disagree that it’s “hardwired in our brains”. It certainly has a strong cultural bias. Also, I kinda look at it like a gynologist: If you’ve seen 20 of them naked, it gets boring and you stop staring, I guess.
On the other hand, I’m gay and breasts just don’t do anything for me. Now a guy with a decent set of pecs (but not ridiculously oversized), now we’re talking.
What’s your opinion on the Terry Crews style pec muscle jiggle?
It’s a bit much.
Also legal in Ontario, Canada. A woman was arrested for walking around topless in hot weather. She was finned by police but topless men in the area were not. Ontario courts eventually rulled this was discriminatory but the provincial government did not appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada so the ruling only applies in Ontario.
Yeah despite there being a law against discrimination, the cops are obviously going to use their subjective view of things like lewd behaviour to charge topless women where they wouldn’t men.
That’s literally the law Ontario courts rulled cannot apply to topless women as it is discrimination.
On July 19, 1991, a sweltering and humid day, Gwen Jacob, a University of Guelph student, was arrested after walking down a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless after removing her shirt when the temperature was 33 °C (91 °F) and was charged with indecency under Section 173(1)(a) of the Criminal Code
Yeah. Shit, isn’t it?
ACAB
Take Oklahoma off your list because in Tulsa they will still arrest any woman who does this. Apparently they refuse to follow that law that was passed.
I know because the city made big fucking stink about it when Tulsa women started to go topless when it was found to be legal. So they passed and ordinance making it illegal within city limits at public spaces so practically everywhere.
Have there been any lawsuits about that? Surely someone has done it so they could then sue the city right?
I bet they would charge them with “Creating a public disturbance.”
That’s what the cop who told me in Indiana, “Sure, you can wash your car at a public car wash while having a pistol in view; it’s not illegal. But I’ll arrest you and put you in jail for ‘creating a public disturbance’ in less than a heartbeat”. And, no, he wasn’t joking.
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It’s also legal in British Columbia, Canada and it has been since 2000
Happy about this. A scant few hours ago I had an over the fence conversation with my neighbor and neither of us were wearing shirts. It’s the ideal way to live.
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YES
END THE HYPOCRISY
👏 FORCE
👏 MEN
👏 TO
👏 WEAR
👏 SHIRTS!^^^apologies, i should have appended an ‘/s’^^^
Heck nah, free the tiddy. I’m transitioning and I wanna be able to show off what I’ve grown when I’m able haha
Also just like, can we all stop making everything sexual and let peoples bodies exist. Instead of hiding everything and making ourselves feel ashamed of our bodies
Free them tiddies!
On a serious note, while I’ve always believed that boobs aren’t inherently sexual, years of bathing people has extended that to all nudity.
Once you get used to seeing people naked all the time, nudity by itself ceases to be sexual. There has to be intent to the nudity to matter.
And it isn’t like I didn’t bathe attractive boobs and vag (that being what I’m attracted to personally, I’m not into guys), I did. Plenty of them, surprisingly, what with accidents and illnesses being involved (you’d think that illness and injury would reduce the attractiveness overall, what with part of attractiveness being signs of health). Even in nursing homes, there were enough attractive bodies that most people would be surprised.
But it wasn’t sexual at all. Well, not for me anyway, some of the patients had moments.
It’s just skin.
The flip side of that is that after a while, I just got annoyed at people doing the usual “old people gross” bullshit. No, they aren’t, they’re just old. Age, disability, none of it makes someone’s body unpleasant inherently. Tbh, there’s beauty in all of it after I got past the initial dissonance with nudity in general. That “I’m not supposed to be seeing this” that we get drilled into us.
I always look at it this way… being into feet is one of the most common paraphilias(other than breasts) that people can have.
If folks into feet can control themselves in summertime when barefeet and sandals are common, then people into boobs can control themselves when they see female nipples out.
I also agree that we need to desexualize the nude human body outside of sexual contexts. I went to a classical art school where we would draw from live nude models for 8 hours a day.
How quickly you get used to nude bodies is kind of impressive, and the men in class didn’t turn into sex crazed animals when we had nude female models. The folks into penises didn’t become possessed with lust over the nude male models. Everything went professionally as it should. So people can in fact handle nude bodies with maturity when they want to.
Its just most people dont want to… for some reason.
If a trans person lives somewhere they legally cannot change their gender, does that mean they can legally go topless in a state where its illegal to bare breasts, because the State still recognizes them as men?
You’d likely be labeled a fetishist and thus arrested for acting lewd in public.
No way am I going swimming like JD Vance.
NGL, swimming with a shirt on is dope, no sunburn, im happy to admit im weird
Plus you can pull the neck of it up around your mouth, draw the neck hole tight enough to form a loose seal, and exhale into it to inflate it like a balloon :D and then your voice sounds neat and echoey in it! Wet fabric is not as permeable to air so it will actually stop it from escaping too fast.
Sunscreen is expensive
Exactly this. I don’t like Vance, but I can’t blame him for wearing a shirt while swimming. Sun shirts are way better than applying sunscreen every so often.
Of course he does
He’s a nevernude.
I mean…I have self body issues. I wear a hoodie in the summer when it’s nearly 100F.
But I was thinking we go the other way on this. Ladies, just because I’M ashamed of my body, and cover up, doesn’t mean YOU need to! Let the girls get some air!
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Im sure some people are attention seeking to some degree but most people i know who go on neighborhood runs are just out doing their own thing and if anything are overly self conscious about showing off their bodies. I overheat incredibly quickly when I go for runs, and I frequently have to peel off my top layer and I’m still soaked. I can’t imagine I’m the only one. And I absolutely hate having any attention drawn to myself. Judgment from other people when I’m just out trying to get in a nice run outdoors sucks.
Equal protection clause. Any law that imposes itself on women and not men should be unconstitutional.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Equal protection*
Dunno, an intentionalist would argue that by “people” they were only talking about rich white men.
Obviously they didn’t think slaves were people. Why would you think the considered women as people?
It’s the 14th amendment. Kind of an important one.
Isn’t that the one that kept slavery legal?
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
There’s a lot going on there.
And you’re thinking of the 13th amendment.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
You might want to spend more time studying our constitution if you’re going to participate in discussions about it.
The Supreme Court did pretty much read out that 3rd section.
Legal in more states now. https://gotopless.org/topless-laws
See how Indiana is red there? I had friends in college in Indiana back in the 90s who stripped to help pay for their schooling and they had to put round band-aids over their nipples. They could bare their breasts, inside a building, but not their nipples.
You mean in a strip club or in public?
Inside the strip club. No nipples allowed.
Wtf
I can’t explain it either.
Blue laws are hell to work around as a performer. Thankfully NYC is pretty lax.
That said, the silver lining is that nipple pasties are an absolute central part of burlesque now and you can find everything from cheap disposables to custom made works of art
It’s so funny though. Like the nipple suddenly makes it horrible smut but it’s okay with almost the nipple.
Blue laws are a joke. In many states you can’t show underboob
Also, notice it’s only fem presenting nipples
Man nipples = Go for it anywhere at any time. At the DMV? Show off those nipples!
Woman nipples = the worst thing you can possibly see in a strip club.
Blue laws
Are they called that because they relate to blue balling?
To be honest nipple pasties are HELLA sexy. Just makes it even better when they get taken off later on. But who knows, maybe the reason I think so is because of burlesque popularizing them.
Washington surprises me. AFAIK full nudity is legal in Seattle.
did not expect Nevada to ban tatas
Sadly, site doesnt load
Hooray!
Username checks out.
…for Boobies!
I was told (but didnt confirm this) that in Barcelona you can go full nude almost everywhere and there is a naked guy on a bike that is pretty famous there (didnt get to see him fortunately?)
The prohibition on public exposure of breasts by women and girls over 10 years old is now gone from the city code as of this week.
I never thought I’d be conflicted on this, because I am absolutely of the opinion that female breasts and nipples shouldn’t be treated as exclusively sexual body parts, especially since men have them too and we aren’t held to that standard.
But being confronted with the idea that 10-17 year old girls can now bare their breasts in public without restraint reminds me that treating female bodies as non-sexual is great as an ethos, but it is not reflective of reality, and that this specifically could be problematic.
But how to solve it? You can’t make it an 18+ only rule, or you’re further entrenching the idea that female breasts are exclusively sexual and adult, but if you let teens and tweens go topless, they will be sexualized / ogled / photographed by adult men, and that’s a bad precedent to set as acceptable. We usually treat photographs of underage female breasts as a form of CSAM, but can we still say that if we’re treating female breasts as non-sexual? This is an interesting new line to draw, given societal attitudes on adolescent nudity.
Regretfully, I believe that the true problem is men. The reason women have to cover their breasts is because they have to protect themselves from men. I’m all for bodily liberation and the de-sexualization of female existence, but we need an overhaul on our society’s attitudes towards women in general if we’re going to get there. Maybe bare breasts help get us there. Maybe girls need to learn the right way how to kick a man in the balls before they go topless.
I feel like the simple solution is that if you can’t have topless kids because of pervs, then you can’t have topless kids and gender isn’t part of it
Comments like this are why I left reddit. This is a completely hinged and totally reasonable thought process that calls in a question, a lot of facets of the issue and ways them against each other appropriately. Maybe something more crazy would spark a bunch more replies but I totally like that Lemmy is a place that just lets people be normal.
This is a western society problem, in tribes where women don’t cover their breasts the men are interested in other parts.
Remember when ankles were sexy
These fucking 304s walking around with their exposed ankles will never find a husband. How will they live without a husband to get a bank account for them? They’ll die miserable and destitute, and they’ll deserve it.
And I’m not an incel for saying so, because I have a kid! Checkmate, cucks!
To answer your question, it could be legal grey area because not all pictures depicting nudity are automatically considered pornographic, if you are speaking in terms of legal precedent regarding obscenity in the US.
To further muddy the issue, photographing other peoples kids is considered creepy by nearly everyone but it isn’t expressly illegal unless certain localities have specific statutes against it. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public places, so you have the potential situation where people are doing a presumptively legal activity in a public area where photographing that activity could be illegal depending on… intent?
Further, the courts have ruled that getting naked in public in the act of protesting something is part of protected speech. Presumably that applies to people of all ages and sexes as well but I doubt it has ever been tested.
So you feel that women should be arrested and prosecutable if their nipples are exposed?
That’s very misogynist. And no, you can’t argue for the law to “save the women” from all those perverts. Because the whole point of this is to free women from the bullshit laws that allows society to prosecute them while pulling double duty by effectively shaming their bodies.
Most women are not going to run around topless voluntarily. But, even if they did - say a group of girls or women decided to go skinny dipping or whatever at a lake, do you really believe they should go to jail for that?
Don’t mansplane and tell everyone these laws are for women’s own good, because they aren’t. Inventing this bizarre photographic scenario is just bizarre. It’s a fiction of your imagination and is a straw man argument.
You are correct that the true problem is men, but not how you think it is.
Are you okay? OP’s post was pretty well written, and the guy only explained his moral dilemma without being disrespectful and you come shouting down like a banshee.
His point is a totally valid one and should be discussed to alleviate any moral dilemma to be had.
You are inventing a problem that does not exist. Go take a walk where it is allowed and see how many girls are walking topless in the street.
It’s not necessarily because they don’t want to. It’s because in North American culture, it invites harassment. And then people like many of those posting in this thread will just say that they asked for it. So of fucking course women don’t go topless in public.
It’s not necessarily because they don’t want to.
I mean, it is because they don’t want to …
it invites harassment.
That’s why they didn’t want to.
Why is it not legal everywhere that it is for men? This is ass backwards lol. I just always assumed it was more of a women saying “not gonna do that cause pervs” type thing and how overly sexualized boobs are
It’s a straw man / non issue.
In Germany are public places marked as FKK (Freikörper Kultur = Full Nudity in Public), which are literally normal areas without any special consideration in terms of visibility. Best case: There is a sign notifying the squeamish that there could be Nudity… normal Case: No one gives a fuck.
Heck, the best public baths are the sauna/thermal baths with are mandatory nude, age restriction 16+…
It has no sexual meaning … you go there, everyone is naked after 10 seconds of slight awkwardness, you forget about it and enjoy the freedom of “no cold and wet swimwear” on the body.
It’s great!
I doubt Americans are different in that perspective.
Edit: Perverts won’t have fun there. The people are average and mostly old and the behavior is casual. It’s like seeing your mom or dad naked. The few People who could get off on this have issues.
I doubt Americans are different in that perspective
Lmao
That’s all I came to say
exactly, we’re so regressive here that some parents just never even talk to their children about sex or their bodies because they are too ashamed to bring up the topic. nudity in public would not go over well
Right. This dude doesn’t realize that if women did this in America dudes would be just non stop staring or straight up grabbing a handful walking by and shit. It’s disgusting but it’s the truth or America.
Not every dude would do this obviously but there are a selection of scumbags who most certainly would.
But I thought they love “freedom” over everything?
You didn’t experience freedom when you never took a thermal bath and grilled your balls in the sun… :)
“freedom” as in “free to economic growth” but not “free” as in “free to do what you want”
Hey I’m not saying you’re wrong about that lol But America is full of hypocrisies.
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The Article made it sound like hyped up “look at this thing and how unbelievable it is” while it is completely normal.
But I think I am ignorant regarding the issue in the US an I think I became a sex offender at least twice while visiting the US. ._.
Okay well I’m interpreting this as a joke lmao.
But if it’s not then dude… You’re a sex offender.
If there’s one thing America gets right it’s sex offender laws.
Well I always just change on the spot since I was little, maybe with a loose towel, but it literally just a fig leaf… when it drops, it drops.
But since I’m already a sex offender,… time to grab some pussy? (/s)
I wasn’t saying you were a sex offender lol I meant if you did get charged legally it would be for good reason (99% of the time).
Wrongful charges do occur, of course, when a “victim” claims rape falsely and there isn’t enough evidence to prove it didn’t happen (which is the opposite of how it is supposed to be - innocent until proven guilty).
I have no oder how to know everything. There are so many laws for stuff I didn’t even consider regulated, it’s hard to know what’s illegal and when.
Open container law, or that you can’t exit the car and walk on the side of a highway… (the two things we actually got in trouble with, but the cops were chill to us 4 Germans, amused even when we told them we had no more fuel and didn’t know what else to do / when a friend took his beer to the car to finish on the way home)
Next time we will do better
you can become a sex offender for peeing somewhere you shouldn’t. i wouldn’t hype up our sex offender laws that much.
I mean you shouldn’t have your dick out in public so…
Well you’re kinda right. I’ve lived in BC and the Yukon where it’s fully legal for women to go topless and I know quite a few who have, for shorter events like naked bike ride etc. But most of them intelligently choose not to at public beaches and whatnot because of the ick factor.
I know one lady who did choose to go topless on a hot summer day in a fairly major downtown center and was accosted by cops whom she had to argue with (gladly, and loudly) for over an hour to explain to them that she was breaking no laws. They were trying to pressure her to re-robe because they were getting complaints, but again it’s true that she was breaking no laws at all. They couldn’t in the end do anything about it, and rightly so.
Honestly, boobs are not that exciting.
Have you ever been to a topless beach? The novelty wears out after about 10 seconds and then it becomes a boring norm.
I think boobs are super exciting. I love boobs.
If they’re connected to the body of the girl I’m being intimate with that is.
Walked into Starbucks today to grab a food order and saw an attractive woman breastfeeding her child today, though, and not one sexual thought entered my mind.
Thats the part most men struggle with.
And some women, too, though not for the same reasons. “Oh that’s not something thAt should be done in public!” Okay so I guess for the same reasons, just different thought processes to arrive there.
AFAIK anyone can go fully nude in most public spaces in Germany. It’s actually kind of weirder to not allow it and carve out arbitrary exceptions if you think about it.
I think its decriminalized, not legal. That way the cops can just arrest people they want to discriminate against and let the white Christians violate the laws.
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All boobies, both genders!
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Of all ages
I support this for all the reasons. All the right ones. And all the wrong ones.
I love equality and boobs
I want to build a society where women can walk around wearing whatever they want, even nothing, because they feel safe from harassment for all the reasons you listed.
