Did I say mandatory? I meant optional! You’re “free” to die in a cardboard box under a freeway as a market capitalist scarecrow warning to the other ants so they keep showing up to make us more!

  • bastion@feddit.nl
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    5 months ago

    I don’t agree with unrealized gains taxes in general, but the instant they are used as collateral, or if value in any way is extracted from them (even loan value), they become realized gains, and should be taxed.

      • ArchRecord@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        I think the key point in the post was “If ‘unrealized gains’ can buy stuff-then they’re realized. Tax them.”

        Essentially, because the unrealized gains held in their stocks could be realized through a loan, all of their capital gains should be considered for taxation.

        As opposed to just the assets used as collateral, that is now effectively liquid, should be taxed as realized.

        I personally think we should do everything we can to disincentivize wealth hoarding, even if it’s an “unfair” or possibly somewhat broken system that does so, but it also doesn’t seem feasible as a kind of legislation you could convince anyone in the government to enact, since they’ll still be focusing on things like if it could possibly lead to a higher loss than the initial investment if they’re taxed on the gains for years, but it drops low enough to wipe out all the value they paid in tax and their gains, even if the actual price is higher than the purchase price.

        • phx@lemmy.ca
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          5 months ago

          Yeah, a bank isn’t going to give your a $500k mortgage on a $200k property, so if they give you a $500k loan on stock then that’s the value given to the stock at that point.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I don’t agree with unrealized gains taxes in general, but the instant they are used as collateral, or if value in any way is extracted from them (even loan value), they become realized gains, and should be taxed.

      What you’re suggesting would also mean you’re advocating for middle class homeowners to be taxed on a full value of a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) even if they haven’t spent a dime of it yet. Was that your intention?

        • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I believe you’re referring to rules on sale of a home where there is a capital gain, meaning you bought the house for $100k and sell it for $350k, no cap gains taxes. We’re in uncharted waters with what @bastion@feddit.nl is proposing. That user (possibly) suggesting it for HELOCs too.

          • hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Okay but you can just apply the same logic to a HELOC. If you get a 30k HELOC for a bedroom renovation then it does not count towards capital gains tax.

            Even normal capital gains taxes have brackets.

            • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Okay but you can just apply the same logic to a HELOC. If you get a 30k HELOC for a bedroom renovation then it does not count towards capital gains tax.

              Wouldn’t this be a double standard if we’re applying @bastion@feddit.nl 's logic? The rich would get taxed on loaned money but the middle class wouldn’t?

              • hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                That’s generally how progressive tax brackets work, yes. Technically speaking if I rich person wants to take out a 30k HELOC they’d also not get taxed on it.

              • orrk@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                that’s like the point of the entire system? I mean, I don’t want to go back to the 1800s corporate baronies that defined most industry at that point in time

              • julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works
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                5 months ago

                This is how… EVERYTHING works… Income tax brackets, 401k limits. I thought this was pretty obvious, from each according their ability and all.

              • prole
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                5 months ago

                The rich would get taxed on loaned money but the middle class wouldn’t?

                Oh no… Anyway.

      • prole
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        5 months ago

        Oh no, I guess our legislators’ hands are tied. It’s not like they could just put an exemption for a person’s first home into the law or anything.

        Oh well.

      • julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        They didn’t set out their whole tax platform for their presidential bid friend. We can trivially blow down your straw man with a primary residence exemption or, you know, tax brackets.

    • bastion@feddit.nl
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      5 months ago

      Simply tax it as if it underwent a buy/sell/trade. Capital gains and losses are accounted for in that at the time the value is utilized. They are tracked, and you don’t pay them later.

      Reasonable home ownership (only home) could be exempted.