He’d give up on Ukraine. And call it a win.
“Winning the battle is worth losing the war”
(Trump, The Art of the Deal, pp. 179-181)
“I could make a deal with Hitler to stop this war tomorrow!”
Yeah pretty much.
Aka appeasement. We tried it Donny. Though this time it’s Trump who wants to be dictator.
Trump doesn’t care so long as Russia keeps paying him.
That’s a short sentence for that many pages. I knew it was in big print, but…
It’s illustrated so his voters can understand the book
From the chapter: “Yeah, but remember that one time…”
The Jews would have had peace if they’d just let themselves be taken to camps peacefully.
This is less funny because Russia literally did commit a holocaust in Ukraine.
or maybe extort them again.
Yea, that infuriated me.
He didn’t answer a single fucking question about anything, just ranted about illegals eating pets the whole time.
He is outing gop for eating pets. He just needs to do it under the radar.
Remember every blame the throw around is admission on their part.
Suddenly ol’ brainworrm endorsing Trump makes sense!
This is why I don’t watch the debate. I know it’ll just piss me off because he won’t say anything but crazy shit.
It was great seeing Kamala get under his skin. The reaction cams were really fun seeing Kamala react like a normal human to his insane rantings and him just smoldering and getting angrier and angrier when she hit back
My favorite was when she clearly (very clearly IMO) seemed about to say “…but this motherfucker…” and restrained herself.
Omg I forgot about that moment!
trump:
But it was so crazy that it was incredibly funny. I was doing paraphrases of a lot of his responses in the pinned debate thread in c/news if you’re curious.
The thing is, it isn’t actually funny. we can laugh at the old racist piece of shit criminal but it is actually quite sad and makes me angry that this is where we are.
Yeah I’ll look back and laugh if he loses
I’ll have to check it out! I do enjoy seeing the highlights and memes afterwards lol.
I was looking forward to what he was going to say about why he blocked the border bill. As expected, he chose to immediately talk about something else.
First time?
Let’s not forget: it appears that JD Vance may be the originator of that whole farce.
In which case, Trump touted it because either a) they honestly think it is good propaganda which will sway the campaign, or b) Trump is quite literally eating his own dog food, because there are too many lies to keep track of.
Trump said during the debate that her vp pick was insane. I lol’d
Well, every accusation is a confession with them.
So weird…
Don’t worry, when Kamala catches and imprisons those illegals she will do transgender surgeries on them
It was obvious as hell that he wants Russia to win.
All we have to do is make him president elect! We don’t even have to inaugurate him!
You’ll get all the Logan act violations you seek if you act now!
This gets me - if he’s that fucking clever then he should have ended it by now. And he says he’s good friends with Zelensky, how? Do they go out drinking together? They’ve probably spoken twice. America should be ashamed of Trump the Liar.
America should be ashamed of Trump the Liar.
Americans capable of feeling shame are. Unfortunately, his base is incapable of feeling shame, so there’s no effect there.
They’re capable of feeling shame, just not for good reasons. Like, they can feel ashamed of thinking a trans person is hot.
he will allow Russia to win yes, in exchange for favours probably
Has he not done enough already for that wretched, glorified petrol station they call a country.
He is in a LOT of debt, financially and politically, to Russia. And he also is desperate to win, because if he loses he’s going to jail. He’ll do anything Putin wants him to
What makes you think he hasn’t already been given the favor years or decades ago and how he’s the one repaying it and he’ll get nothing in return?
Mostly the fact that Trump never pays his debts.
Can’t argue with that one lol
I have to wonder if the potential for accidentally falling out of a window goes any way into affecting the way he approaches certain debts.
No. If Trump were capable of conceptualizing losing and suffering consequences he wouldn’t do half the shit he does.
Of course he does, he’s a bought man.
Yea, what a POS he is for pretty much admitting this. Not that we didn’t know this already.
This stood out to me. Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win? Anyone at all?
Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win? Anyone at all?
That question is awkwardly worded, why are you putin it that way?
Just not russian to any conclusions
Tsar right to know if he’s compromised.
Moscows are fat. Trump is fat. Coincidence? Probably not.
?
Moscows=most cows
Ah.
Thanks
Fun fact: at his mother’s deathbed, Stalin reportedly told her that he had “become something like the Tsar”. Perfectly accurate FWIW.
I remember when Russia did go in, briefly Fox News was full of editorializing that Russia should get to have Ukraine. They at least tried to got full on pro-Russia when they thought the narrative might fly and Ukraine was going to just get conquered in a week or so. Clearly they were trying to set things up for blithe acceptance for what Russia had done and for the world to move on (until next time).
I think that between the prolonged conflict and the fact that their boomer audience actually may still be inclined to remember their cold war feelings that this won’t fly, that they backed off to less aggressively calling for complete Russian victory. But as seen here, there’s still a theme of making it clear that you’re ok with whatever outcome, leaning toward “but should we spend our money?” to undermine things rather than calling for a pro-russia outcome outright.
I wonder if a big part of the reason is just the whole phone call about Biden and subsequent impeachment, and how Zelenskyy wouldn’t play ball and the whole thing damaged Trump’s ego in a big way. So even if it’s politically advantageous in every way to say you want Ukraine to win, Trump is incapable of doing so.
The whole reason he tried to keep weapons from Ukraine was because he was given instructions by Putin to make Russia’s planned invasion easier.
Trump being Trump, he tried to extort some political favors or of Zelenskyy first, but clearing a path for Putin was always the goal.
Putin’s mum.
Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win?
Yes, I think there’s this one man, Trumps big idol, I think his name was Vladimir the war criminal Putin.
I feel like when Harris said that Putin would be sitting in Kyiv, Trump didn’t understand. “Why would he be in Kyiv, Putin would be at home, happier of course” because he’s taking it literally like a fucking idiot.
And yes, Trump, of course Putin would be happier with you in charge when he invaded. The Biden administration gave crucial Intel in the months leading up to the invasion and military support. Harris 100% deserves props for being involved in that.
This needs to be very widely publicized.
It was a presidential debate. It was fairly publicized.
I think maybe they mean… Like, not washed out by the other 90 minutes of crazy shit he was saying.
Oh no doubt. I only wish she hadn’t spent so much time explaining what a fucking idiot he was instead of taking about herself or her plans. He made all those talking points for her by, well, talking… It was a great beat down nonetheless, and I get it was her one time to really make a fool out of him in person, but again, he did that better than anyone ever could.
Great show overall, would watch season 2.
She walked him like a dog. Flatly stated he could be easily manipulated, and proceeded to do just that. He could not even muster the courage to make meaningful eye contact with her the entire debate. She just stared him down and dominated him. How brutally emasculating for him.
Watching it made me so hungry, going to doordash some fried kitten.
I dunno, I just read an article about that country’s political debate from last night and it didn’t mention this point, it was mostly discussing how angry that bloke got at the other politician and how overall it seems like it was a bad night for him and a good night for her.
The specifics were a bit overshadowed by the perceived importance of the event and it’s outcome itself, I think.
I’m sure in the coming days some more details will flow out of the USA and we’ll hear some discussion of specifics where they concern us, like their politician’s stances on the war in Europe, I agree. I’ve just not seen it mentioned just yet is all.
But it’s only 7am and I think the debate was in the middle of the night, so I shouldn’t expect much yet haha :-D
But Kamala Harris should have poited that out and reminded everyone that Trump wouldn’t answer. Then it would be her jabbing him instead of some talking head no one knows letting it pass. Missed opportunity.
It will not put off his voters. Some of them just don’t care about anything international. Others admire Putin as a strongman who isn’t afraid to kill his enemies and persecute minorities, a moral conservative, a self-professed Christian, an ally against democracy and a defender of the same bigotries they share.
He doesn’t just need the MAGA faithful to win. I can’t believe I have to keep saying this.
You’re right. The hope is that they’re not enough and he fails to attract anyone else.
I don’t think he’s gaining voters and I do think he’s losing them.
He also still refused to admit he lost four years ago, and admit any fault or regret for Jan 6th. And he showed zero remorse or awareness about the Central Park Five. Pure deflection for every single question.
His boss sure as shit doesn’t want Ukraine to win.
His boss wants to stay in power, Ukraine is just convenient way of doing it.
Ukraine was a massive fuck up for Putin. He believes in the bullshit known as color revolution.
So he thought he’d pull one in Ukraine. A few years of some soldiers fucking around in the East, then he’d walk in and be welcomed.
Which is fucking stupid.
But Putin has long since killed anyone who would tell him that an idea is stupid, or that people don’t work the way a paranoid, backstabbing KGB trained psychopath thinks they do.
No, Putin fucked up hard due to the dictator trap.
Now he’s scrambling. He’s been killing off rivals and opponents at a breakneck pace the last few years, all because his position has never been weaker.
And he barely managed to diffuse a coup attempt.
He had to use treachery to do it, so the next time, the coup leader will not back down.
No, Putin is desperate to pull out some sort of win in Ukraine, because anything else is the end of his rule, and likely his life.
And he barely managed to diffuse a coup attempt.
Context?
Priggy’s aborted thunder run: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group_rebellion
Ohh, I forgot about that. Not sure if that coup would have made things better, but it was an interesting time.
It would have made shit so much worse, but is a sign of weakness in Putin’s rule.
That’s why Putin is so murder happy right now. He’s having to reconsolidate his rule.
Russian Asset. Better dead than Red.
Americans being so politically illiterate they think that the government they practically installed is somehow communist.
lol remember to vote I guess
Nothing stupider than an American. Well, an American with a political agenda maybe.
russia isn’t “red” and never really was to begin with
That’s what annoys me the most. Tankies will go defend Russia like it’s the promised land of communism, when the only remnant of communism it has is rigged elections and propaganda.
Also wrong. Rigged elections would imply there ever was a communist Russia. There never was. It was (maybe at its best, in part) socialist and most of the time after the zars a military state. That is true for all states that were left leaning btw. No communists to be found.
This is incorrect. The USSR was Socialist, and was attempting to work towards building Communism.
Yes working towards as in socialism is the first stage to communism. But they didn’t get far thus my argument was there wasn’t communism in the USSR.
They got pretty far, they were Socialist for nearly the entire 20th century. They liberalized towards the end and were dissolved, but the narrative that they weren’t Socialist or that it wasn’t a real attempt at building Communism is nonsense.
Yes arguing that Russia was never socialist (or tried hard to be) would be nonsense. I am not arguing that though. I said that there was never communism. As in, archived and not used as veil to hide the failing government and society.
To be fair, it has the most boots to be licked and some people have urges that the rest of us will never understand. /S
Someone offended your favorite colonizer!
Quick, to the semantic-debate mobile, we must split the hairs!!
Nah dude, someone took the opportunity to use a slogan originating in witch hunts of people threatening the ruling class in their bleeding of post-war prosperity in America.
This is about some despot using their resources to interfere with what modest self-governance we have in America
Yeah keep dreaming about the communist utopia that will definitely happen… somewhere… at some point… …maybe…?
Communism isn’t Utopian, it isn’t a “perfect model of society” that people simply need to agree with in their minds to adopt. It’s closer to a theory of historical development and analyzing what will come after Capitalism in that long chain of development.
Knowing about it can speed up the process of development, since you can better direct it, but modes of production emerge from what came before.
What is Red in this context?
C. All of the above.
deleted by creator
Russia isn’t Communist anymore.
Why’d you delete that?
Just to elaborate, my first thought was: “I dislike this anti-Communist Cold War-era hysteria. I’ll post something to try to counter this hysteria.”
And then I realized: Wait. People are going to think I’m “defending” Russia against accusations of being Communist, and I’m tired of people attacking me for being “pro-Russia”, so I deleted it almost immediately.
So, basically, I’ve started to self-censor my thoughts because I find the toxicity of Lemmy exhausting. Go enjoy hunting your Reds under the Bed, and I’m going to do something better with my time, like go outside.
I really wanted Lemmy to work out, but it’s clear to me that this place is as bad as Reddit, just in a different way.
So, basically, I’ve started to self-censor my thoughts because I find the toxicity of Lemmy exhausting. Go enjoy hunting your Reds under the Bed, and I’m going to do something better with my time, like go outside.
I really wanted Lemmy to work out, but it’s clear to me that this place is as bad as Reddit, just in a different way.
Depends on the instance. Lemmy.world tends to be one of the more toxic instances if you left Reddit, it’s trying to recreate Reddit itself, and the users are generally people who loved Reddit but hated Spez in particular for the API crisis.
I decided it wasn’t worth arguing over.
Not only this, but they rephrased the question asking if he thought it would be in America’s best interest to win the war and he declined to answer again…
I found it interesting that Trump claims if he wins the election, he’ll have the Russia / Ukraine conflict resolved BEFORE he even takes office. I’m paraphrasing there, but that’s how I interpreted what he stated.
If that’s the case, then it seems like he could choose to end the conflict at any time. Why doesn’t he just end it now? Save countless lives. Minimize injuries. Prevent suffering. Save money. I’m sure that’d change some voters’ minds if he did it. Might even win him the election.
Yes, this is a rhetorical question. I have no doubt that he can’t actually end it without basically giving in entirely to Russia.
It is a confusing statement. I understood it to be basically that once he is guaranteed to be president, Putin will know his man on the inside will be in charge, and Putin can end the war/negotiate for favorable terms with the US as enforcer.
Trump can’t end it before the election, because there’s no guarantee he’ll win.
Trump thinks that makes him a brilliant negotiator, instead of what he really is which is a stooge that can be played like a fiddle.
Harris said it in the debate.
Everyone knows he can be bought with favours.
I found it interesting that Trump claims if he wins the election, he’ll have the Russia / Ukraine conflict resolved BEFORE he even takes office.
He’s invoking the Iran Hostage Crisis, I think. Reagan famously cut a deal with the Ayatollah to release the American hostages on the day of his inauguration, despite Carter having nailed down a prisoner exchange months earlier.
If that’s the case, then it seems like he could choose to end the conflict at any time.
He’s full of shit. This isn’t a hostage negotiation where Biden did 95% of the work for him already. This is an intractable siege spanning a third of the country’s land area which has been spiraling into long range bombings of the respective civilian capitals. Trump isn’t going to be able to leverage a ceasefire that’s already on the table, because Zelensky isn’t asking for a ceasefire, he’s asking for permission to use higher capacity long range missiles to force Russian troops off the southern front.
I have no doubt that he can’t actually end it without basically giving in entirely to Russia.
The siren song Trump sings is that he could have prevented the '22 invasion by playing nice with Putin before tanks crossed the border. And 100%, if there had been a detente prior to the outbreak of open conflict, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved. Even at a concession of territory, this arguably would have been preferable to the holocaust committed across the territory to date.
But the reality is that he was just as happy to sell advanced weapons systems to Ukraine in 2018 as Biden has been in extending military aid today. If anything, Trump was more responsible for the Ukraine/Russia war going hot than Biden. And not even for particularly noble reasons (MIC $$$!!!)
Trump falsely promised Ukrainian leadership his full support in the event of a Russian retaliation, sold them a bunch of tacti-cool military surplus, and then turned around and tried to cut the same fucking deal with the Russians.
In this sense, it also invokes Reagan who was famous for sending Rumsfeld to cut arms deals with both Iran and Iraq shortly before the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War.
Promising both countries your support, goading them into conflict, and then pulling back to let them duke it out is textbook John Bolton foreign policy. And guess who was whispering in Trump’s ear all through that first term in office?
You should have learned by now that everything that comes out of Trump’s mouth is pure bullshit.
It’s not a mystery how he plans to do it. He’ll demand Zelenskyy cede taken territory to Russia. If Zelenskyy doesn’t accept those terms, then the funding to Ukraine will stop.
He doesn’t mean he could end it at any time. He says “if I’m elected” cause he’s talking about the time period after he won the election but before he actually took office.
The moment you win the election and become the person who will DEFINITELY be the president in a couple of months, your bargaining power with other nations (and anyone really) goes through the roof compared to what you had as a mere candidate.
I’ve stated that last as a fact though it’s just what seems self-evidently true to me.
He refused to answer any question
That’s not true, he very clearly answered that he’s stronger than Superman and smarter than Batman.
He could beat Batman for sure, especially with prep time to make a concept of a plan.
Of course, he wants Russia to win, duh
He’s browsing too much hexbear
lol
Putler is betting on trump to win. If Harris wins, it’s over for him.
So much conservative talking points about Kamala is pro-genocide with no evidence.
Like motherfucker, your main boy has zero plans and has a history of flying by the seat of his pants and having Americans killed.
I’m not a conservative and everything you said about Trump is correct.
But Kamala is pro genocide here’s the evidence: https://lemmy.ml/post/19744450
Nothing will fundamentally change
