The political satire doesn’t make me laugh so much as it crushes my spirit.
It’s not even satire anymore.
how can it even be nowadays
Agreed. This internet will help you find evidence to support any stance.
Civil rights for black people alienate the working class
—same satirical headline in the 50s
You mean -probably real headline from the 50s
In less than ten years, I saw three of my cousins transition. This seemed to correspond neatly with trans-rights being mainstreamed as a social issue. Almost as though there are a lot of trans-people, many of whom were simply in the closet until the moment it became socially acceptable to be themselves.
There absolutely are a lot of them; it’s great that they finally feel comfortable to be themselves.
We saw the same thing with gay people. I’m an 80’s kid. When I was young, gay was something you saw on TV and in the movies. There ‘were no gay kids’ at the schools I attended. Because that was simply not something that you could admit to being.
Earlier this year I met a teen girl at work who casually mentioned her girlfriend. I was delighted that kids these days are comfortable enough in their own skin to just say that to someone they just met. That was not a thing when I was her age. It’s nice to see how far we’ve come.
Something cool I’ve been seeing lately too is my cis/het friends also finding value in engaging with the queer community. Despite not having any revelations about their own identities, they still get to free themselves from all sorts of vague social rules and gain a lot of vocabulary to describe their own experiences.
My gruff male vocalist friend gets to be as campy as he likes on stage and has a wider range of presentation he can choose from, without his gender being called into question. My old boss with the rare kind of offensive humor that actually works in the workplace gets to include trans people in the banter, in a way that he very clearly gets from and admires in his nonbinary kid. A good cis friend of mine used the word “dysphoria” to describe something he was feeling and we were able to have a really deep and supportive conversation about it once I realized how similarly it affected us, despite him being very comfortably cis.
Queer liberation is good for everyone and I’m so happy to see more and more people who get this.
That’s definitely been a thing for me personally.
I’m as boring vanilla straight as you can get. But I’ve worked with a fair few colleagues over the years who were gay, as well as the odd lesbian. They were always great to talk with; very liberating so to speak.
They didn’t tend to have the same hangups or reservations that most cis/het people tend to have. I definitely noticed that I was more relaxed around them. It also tended to open up new ways of thinking and different, interesting perspectives.
Our company tends to be quite welcoming; we also have a fair few colleagues with autism for example. I always like meeting people with interesting and unique personalities.
It might sound weird, but that’s also why I’m hoping to get a trans/NB coworker eventually. Trans people tend to be relatively rare where I am, and it sounds fascinating to talk to them about their perspective on certain topics. I bet that would lead to some interesting insights. It’s a shame not everyone is open to that.
Doesn’t sound weird at all! It’s a commendable thing to want diverse perspectives around you and to be aware of the gaps that exist in your community.
I would say that a lot of trans people are open to polite questions, but it can be emotionally difficult to bear the load of educating people while also experiencing the stigma and abandonment that can come with the experience, especially right when coming out. Even good faith questions can feel like being asked the bad faith ones if there’s fresh pain there. A boundary that’s worked for me personally is to say ask me anything, but it has to be OK if I don’t want to answer it, or if I answer it in gory detail.
Tbh I enjoy talking about this stuff so if you have any specific curiosities feel free to ask! But otherwise I do hope you find some folks to connect with in your environment - and even if they’re hiding, putting out the right energy will make them come to you 😁
Huh. I’ve met this guy on lemmy.
I am working class. I have packed thousands of cases of avocados, boxed thousands of clothes in a factory, and only recently moved to teaching. Trans issues 100% do alienate everyone I work with. They are brought up by many different people to prove that white people are weak and perverted. This is coming from Sri Lankan garment workers, Vietnamese seamstresses and Mexican avocado packers.
They are brought up by many different people to prove that white people are weak and perverted
L-o-L. You mean they are brought up by transphobic people to prove they are transphobic? Who in their fucking right mind use trans people as an excuse for working class issues?
All I said was the truth, do whatever toy want with it. I Didn’t excuse anything.
The only thing you are saying is that as there are transphobic people we should be ashamed of helping trans people because transphobic people can use that as a weapon against the working class problems. Im sorry but its the most stupid argument i have seen in a while. I am also working class, i have worked in a fast food restaurant, in a supermarket putting up the avocados you pack up and even picking up dog shit in the streets of my town, and i can tell you no one among 150+ people i worked with was worried about trans people in their working class problems.
No argument was made. I am just responding with a true report from someone who has in fact met working clas speople, being one of them. They are on fact very transphobic,
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I feel like this article was shaming people for talking about things that affect working class people like the price of EGGS instead of focusing the conversation on trans people?
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“I’m not making an argument. I’m just making a statement that disagrees with your argument and claiming it is true. I will take no further questions because I will not actually try to defend what I’ve said. Other people said it.”
What you’re saying is right, but there’s an important distinction between actively disparaging or hating on trans people and ignoring the issue.
The 150+ people have no issue with trans people, exactly as you say, bringing trans people to the forefront is not a problem but also not necessarily a priority or relevant in many of their minds. We can treat them like human beings who deserve protection and treatment like anyone else, but that doesn’t mean putting them on a pedestal at every moment.
Even advocates take issue when a campaign shoehorns in a token trans person with no real role, it’s very contrived. Progressives have to show that trans inclusivity matters to everyone by connecting it to themes and action that matter to a lot of people, not just tick boxes for each obligatory shout out to a marginalized group.
“white people are weak and perverted”
White people have enslaved races of people and nearly eradicated others and now half of them are trying to be accepting of others and you won’t have it?
I don’t enter into it. This is a common opinion amongst people with whom I have worked.
You pack fruit. You can’t expect Mensa applicants.
Yeah, like a working class person.
And how many trans people have you worked with?
Why would that matter? I am talking about working class peoples opinions.the answer is 1 roommate 1 lover 1 friend but it is irrelevant
Because the best way to fight bigotry is through exposure. This is why colleges and cities run more liberal - because that’s where people are introduced to and live around a wider variety of people and cultures and realize “Oh, they’re people, just like me.”
I’m working class. I’m trans. I’ve never met a Mexican farmer. If I said that I find caring about the issues that Mexicans face alienating, would the fact that I’ve never even met a Mexican matter? It absolutely would.
The fact that none of the people that you work with have probably ever known a single trans person is very important to how they’ve formed their opinions.
How much of the working class is trans?
iunno what % of working class is trans but 99.9% of trans people are working class.
of course we have to make sure we are using the same definition of “working class” and mine is “everyone but the 1%rs” so everyone.
I like the spirit of this reply. Go 99%! I guess that means working class victories are trans victories!
I guess that means working class victories are trans victories!
Damn straight.
Replied to wrong reply
3-ish percentage at best, same as the general population, although most who are either won’t figure it out or will deny it to themselves.
That’s more than I expected tbh
Are they really ok with a candidate who’s going to try to deport them (at best) or kill them (at worst) for not being white enough, just because they can’t get over their transphobia? If so, then we really are lost
Sad but unsurprising to see a bona fide member of the working class downvoted for pointing out that some of the popular rhetoric is pointlessly divisive and does nothing to help the working class.
Many of todays activists seem to be doing anything but actually helping the various communities they are oh so eager to bully people on behalf of.
The folks I work with would never associate with the chronically online hexbear types you see here, the ones constantly blaming “crackers” for transphobia.
Hey these guys want you to have an actual standard of living. But they also want this thing completely irrelevant to you.
So fuck them right?
Which is conservative propaganda. That’s not intrinsic to the working class, it’s intrinsic to watching fox news and listening to Russian state media call our military soft.
Yeah, people here don’t want to hear it, but unfortunately it’s the truth. You or I may care, the great majority of people have probably never even met a trans person, if they have they haven’t realized, they don’t see it as an important matter, not when we have the ecosystem on a destruction course and growing economic inequality (and they don’t care much about those if not that they are facing growing difficulties in their daily lives).
OP: States the opinions of the people around him.
Lemmy: FUCK YOU!!!
The people around me think OP is an idiot. I guess I can just state that the people around me call OP a hateful bigot and leave it at that.
I didn’t say it, the people I work with think it, so I don’t actually have to defend or take responsibility for posting it.
Bold of you to call terminally online MLs democrats.
Before Stonewall: Queer liberation’s Communist Party roots
That might sound like a big claim to make, but it was Communist ideology and political strategy that provided the theoretical and practical architecture of the earliest effort to win gay equality in the United States—the Mattachine Society, a group whose ideas underpinned all the struggles and victories in the country that have been won over the past half century. Without them, there would no doubt have been a movement for queer equality in one form or another, as there were already stirrings elsewhere prior to Mattachine, especially in Europe. But without Mattachine, the movement that emerged would likely have looked a lot different than it does now.
I prefer Machetecine.
I suspect the American left focused on LGBTQ+ issues because it was a “safe” mission.
Increasing official tolerance there was no threat to their donors or the wealthy in general. Nobody had to pay more in taxes or submit to meaningful government regulstion to enforce “don’t explicitly fire/assault/refuse to marry someone for being gay/trans”. Arguably those policies could have ecen come out of broader expectations for “stay out of people’s personal lives” rather than making special cutouts and declaring a marginal group.
Looks impressive, accomplishes very little. Pretty much sums up the Democratic party for the last 50 years.
I don’t know what “very little” means to you, but I have friends that are married with children, unlikely to face violence motivated by bigotry (location dependant, YMMV), and have legal protections from discrimination in housing and employment.
When I was a kid they could get fired or evicted with no recource, and if they had the temerity to poke their head out of the closet someone could kick their ass with impunity unless they were seriously injured or killed, and sometimes even then.
But sure, “very little,” let’s go with that.
You really hit a nerve there. lol.
Trans rights are human rights, working class are human.
Yes I ate the onion but I know well meaning ‘progressives’ like this and they infuriate me
The ones I’ve met have all been centrists, eager to throw vulnerable minorities under the bus in their endless and fruitless quest to appease fascists.
I mean I understand the point. The left does a great job of creating noise about issues that affect low numbers of people that end up galvanizing more opposition than it generates in votes. If the thing you advocate for ends up getting more votes against it rather than for it due to your advocacy, you just hurt your own cause.
Long term strategy is key.
Trans rights are human rights.
Advocating for human rights shouldn’t require a mathematical calculation of how many humans are affected.
It shouldn’t, but it does. We do not live in a perfect world.
When doctors at the emergency room have to make decisions about who to treat first, they follow guidelines like this one. Those help save lives, by making sure that those patients who need the most urgent care get it first.
In the same way, elevating LGBT issues above more pressing needs of the general population doesn’t help anyone, not even LGBT people.
How does gender-affirming care help someone who is homeless and jobless with no healthcare? Is proper pronoun awareness really more important than environmental protection, or combating political corruption?
Just to be clear, I 100% agree that trans rights are human rights. It is an important issue, and deserves attention. But what about black lives matter? Isn’t that important anymore? Are we still on that bandwagon, or did it get old? (I realize I’m getting snarky here, my apologies)
Addressing the unnecessary suffering of minority groups of all kinds is important. But putting them above issues that are critical to the survival of our society as a whole hurts everyone, even the people that these policies are designed to help.
You are making the mistake of assuming only one thing can be done at a time, and if everyone is not focused on “the most important thing” at all times then it is inefficient. This is not only untrue, it causes nothing to progress because nobody can agree on what the “most important thing” is.
Things can be worked on in parallel. While a group works on how to best address homelessness, another group can address LGBT issues while yet another group tackles environmental protection.
You can’t just throw everyone on a single problem or it becomes less efficient. Sure, 2 people can sweep the floor faster than 1 person, but if you try to get 100 people sweeping the floor in order to “prioritize it and get it done faster” it’s going to be a nightmare and never get finished.Having one person sweep the floors, another clean the windows, another do the dishes, another do the laundry, another make dinner, another wash the dog, another mow the lawn, another tidy the living room, etc. Is going to have the house clean and in shape a lot faster than if you have all those people make dinner (because dinner is the most important) and then have everyone mow the lawn, only after the lawn is finished have everyone do the laundry…
And all of this ignores the fact that I am not in government. I cannot meaningfully address the homelessness issue. I can stand up for the rights of trans people.
Maybe I could form a group to try to find the most effective methods of addressing homelessness and send our findings to the government. Okay, once we’ve done that now what? Government takes time, homelessness still exists, I guess we double check our research? Yup, research still looks good, our findings still stand. Guess we’ll send that to the government as well. But there’s still homelessness and homelessness is more important that human rights. (Sorry, trans rights. Trans rights are less important because there are less of them and neither you nor I are trans.) So seeing as homelessness still exists and is more important I guess we triple check the research? I’m pretty sure it’s right, but homelessness isn’t over so we can’t spend any amount of effort on something else because that would be inefficient.Well that’s the internet for ya: I agree with you, of course we can work on more than one thing at a time, and right, we don’t work in government, so we should personally take responsibility for what we can do ourselves.
Feels to me like we are really on the same page, we’re juat arguing over details.
Building a large working class movement is difficult when you have a bunch of socially conservative landmines that can divide people. The War on Queerness has always and forever been a war on the working class - often the youngest and most vulnerable, at that. The socio-economic benefits of this hostility only ever accrues to the entrenched establishment.
Fear of alienating the mainstream by withholding support for minority groups only empowers authoritarians who profit from a divided public.
Jews are a very small part of the population. If Republicans were passing laws specifically to persecute Jews, would you be making the same excuses for ignoring it? None of us are free until all of us are.
My understanding of the history of the fediverse, such as it is, is that it was initially used by marginalized groups. Specifically LGBTQ people who felt (and in fact were) persecuted on other platforms.
Trans rights are a core issue to many people here. This is likely why your take is being met with outright rejection by so many.
I understand. But all the down votes and hurt feelings in the world don’t change the validity of my point. It is entirely possible to hurt a cause by generating more opposition than support.
Are we here to virtue signal or win?
No. The people affected by hateful policy are “creating noise.” The Democrats are just the only ones willing to listen and try to help.
Takes 2 to tango.
Republicans obviously think persecuting trans people is a winning issue. Should Democrats not put a comparable amount of effort into defending them?
Political strategists are there to make party win even if it hurts the feelings of a minority, more news at 6
Political strategists are there to make
party winthemselves money even if it hurts the feelings of a minority, more news at 6So many of these consultants just exist to restate the bigotries and biases of the candidate, in hopes that they’ll be hired on as Yes-Men in a doomed campaign. The GOP has been overplaying its hand on trans-politics since the Obama era. Candidates that run on this shit routinely get washed in all but the safest elections, because they sound like freaks when they run around town posting weird AI art with “IS THIS A WOMAN?!?! VOTE FOR ME!!!” next to it.
But because its become such a baked-in GOP strategy, we’re now forced to treat “When can a mall cop grope your daughter’s crotch to check if she’s secretly a man?” as a serious campaign question.
Strategists don’t care. They know their campaign is paid for by a bunch of bible-thumping neanderthals. So this kind of campaigning just won’t stop. Because, paradoxically, the losing only makes people madder and more conspiracy-minded and more willing to throw good money after bad.
feelingsrights FTFYCampaign promises don’t hurt any rights because they don’t need to be kept, they’re required to be elected.
They’re passing anti-trans laws left and right at the state level. Always assume a Republican is telling the truth when they talk about planning to do something awful.
Also campaign promises do hurt because they normalize persecution of minority groups.
In Republican States, no Democrats has campaigned on trans rights yet they actually do things to protect their rights once elected, that’s political strategy.
With friends like those, who needs enemas? (I know, Onion headline. Still, I’m sure there are plenty of people just like him all over the world. Try again ki- Moo hoo ha ha ha!)
Most working-class voters I know are alienated by phrasing, but rarely by pro-LGBT positions alone. Trans rights are very viable for working-class support, you just have to find the right phrasing for it.
These ‘x issues are dividing the working class’ lines is just trickle-down economics with race/ gender/ orientation etc.
