I like to think that I’m a better critical thinker than most, but I fell for the initial news story about her being trans or intersex and the fight being unfair. Then I saw the pictures of her over the years and as a kid, and I dug deeper into what actually happened and I honestly feel dirty. I’ve since been unsubbing to a lot YouTubers.
I have noticed that YouTube by default pushes a lot of right wing-esque stuff. My YouTube recommendations are fucked when I am not logged in, so much misinformation and clickbait all over the place. So I can see why it’s easy to fall for misinformation.
They’ve also started using a lot of channel names which are totally unrelated to politics. No huge surprise of course that it’s the right wing doing stuff like this…
Youtube’s recommendation algo is insane.
I get 2nd amendment nutcases telling me the dems are gonna steal my guns and trans women are gonna rape all my family in public toilets.
I’m British, living in Britain, but I sometimes looking up what the best gun attachments are on call of duty…
Turn off having it track your browsing history, and subscribe and search to/for stuff you like.
I do not have that experience at all. Mine is all video games and science. Its based on what you interact with, even if its negative. Engagement is engagement. Even just hovering over a video can result in it being recommended again.
They literally said it pushes those things when not logged in. So when YouTube doesn’t know your tastes it pushes things like that.
Logging in does affect it, but there’s many more factors that aren’t related to your login status.
yeah, no.
thing is: YT/google/the data kraken knows you regardless of wether or not you’re logged in.
they track everything from IP, to location (even just approximate based on IP), screen size, browser, OS, and sooo much more.
being logged in makes it easier to track you within a site, but you get tracked regardless.
Good for you. We all have biases, it’s best to be aware of it and challenge it from time to time.
It’s a great case of how tempting doubt is, and how people will automatically believe that accusations wouldn’t be made if something were not happening, so we have a 55% starting bias to believe “guilty.”
In college I was once the object of a salacious rumor that was 100% fabricated by someone and spread throughout my circles in school. By the time I heard about it, friends-of-friends and the entire faculty in my department had as well. Closer friends said things like “I never bothered to ask you about it because I figured it wasn’t true. And if it was true I didn’t care. Is it true?”
It was very frustrating how ready everyone was to believe it. People not very close to me ALL believed it. To this day I bet some people I know doubt whether I have just been lying this whole time to defend myself. But I know what I did and didn’t do, and I learned that people will absolutely get up one day and decide to manufacture something out of thin air and then spend energy spreading it around as if true.
I no longer think “well something must have happened if there’s this much hubbub about it…”
Another misconception people have is that trans women are inherently stronger than cis women, which isn’t true. I know from anecdotal evidence, that it is extremely difficult for me to open jars now that I’ve been on estrogen and t blockers for over a year. My t is actually under the normal range for cis women, and usually I have to get my cis sister to open jars because she’s stronger than me now.
Also newer studies have shown trans women don’t actually have the competitive advantage conservatives say they have.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437
Would this be different if someone were to transition at a later age (say mid 20s - 30s)? Honest question, trying to learn something here.
I do think their muscle would still be significantly reduced by the hormones, but the older someone is the more their body is “set in place.” This means any changes will take longer to occur and they may not happen to the degree that they would have if they started younger. So someone starting mid 20s - 30s likely won’t have skeletal changes, since that part of their body has already finished growing. (Someone starting as a young teen definitely will have skeletal changes though.)
It’s crazy what an impact hormones have!
Thanks for clarifying :)
Fuck every person who engaged in this shit. Lie after lie
Starting with that shitty Italian boxer who was a giant coward. She should be banned from boxing in the Olympics since this is a habit of hers. Basic decency and sportsmanship should be required.
Surrendering is part of the rules, why are you blowing on hate, exactly?
and then the Hungarian she was to fight after posted a picture depicting her as a bullman/minotaur, no actions were taken against either of them. goes to show most Europeans are shitty mannerless folks
“Europeans”, a notoriously homogeneous class of people, with a sample of size of 1.
goes to show most Europeans are shitty mannerless folks
Well, that’s uncalled for… I can show you American MMA fighters saying/doing some pretty fucked up things, but it wouldn’t really be fair to make such a statement about Americans, would it?
EDIT: Just to give an example, here and here is a (at the time) UFC champ, who suffered precisely 0 consequences for any of this.
As a general rule, people who pursue fighting as a career are typically not great people.
Boxing is a combat sport. While she is a fucking idiot for suggesting anything was incorrect, if there is anything she is it’s not a coward.
She is just not very good at boxing. She got beat handily by a woman, and a woman that will likely go pro and absolutely dominate for as long as she wants.
She didn’t suggest anything was incorrect. She literally said that she is nobody to judge the match and that she gave up due to pain.
Allez Imane!
(EDIT: Just wanted to add I have donated 10 dollars for each current downvote (7) to women’s rights charities in Algeria. Thanks for supporting Algerian women’s rights!) (EDIT 2: Fuck it, I added another 10 for the late downvote. Thanks for supporting Algerian women’s rights!)
That’s not fair, I want to downvote you now.
Too bad, you’ll have to donate in your own name. ;)
When I watched the video, I was shocked this even was a thing that happened.
I heard about the controversy for a while, heard some people say when they saw the fight they “understood why there was questioning”, and heard something about a punch. As an avid MMA fan, I expected a scary knockout, like those where you hold your breath until you see the person start moving again.
Imagine my surprise when I finally saw the video, and watched an Olympic boxing fight for the first time. I see of them wearing headgear, one of them gets hit with a few good punches, gets to pause to adjust headgear, gets hit with a few more good punches and calls off the fight without her knees ever even buckling or getting stunned, and doesn’t even have a mark on her face. Perhaps the neatest, least harmful fight I’ve ever seen.
To be clear, I don’t hold it against her for realizing she probably won’t be winning and quitting before taking unnecessary damage, I’m just shocked anyone would think Imane is trans or a man based on that fight. Imagine if those people ever saw Amanda Nunes, or Dakota Ditcheva, or Zhang Weili. But I’d guess most of those people never actual watch women compete in any sports unless there is a controversy like this one, at which point they become experts.
I’m just shocked anyone would think Imane is trans or a man based on that fight.
Fan fact: there has never been a single case of a man trying to compete in women’s sports by claiming to be a woman.
I also love MMA and shared the same sentiment. I recall seeing this gallery of Joanna Jedrzeczyk’s opponents before and after.
Your opponent doesn’t need to be a man to break your face. Sometimes you’re just outmatched.
Love Zhang Weili
She basically told the transphobic bigots to fuck themselves.
Transphobia hurts literally everyone, not just transgender people. Unfortunately this statement hits a little too close to home.
Transphobia and misogyny hurt all of us, not just the targets of the bigotry. I hope more people understand that now.
NBC News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for NBC News:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/olympics/algerian-imane-khelif-wins-boxing-gold-rcna166029
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Except she was born a woman, raised as a girl and is a woman according to her passport from a country where being trans is illegal. So your argument is moot.
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Because she’s not trans
Hmmm maybe she’s not trans? Hmm?
She’s a cis woman.
Isn’t a little weird to focus on someone else’s genitals?
Like really weird? Creepy even? Are you weird too?
Except even if they had regulations it would not have changed anything since she is a ciswoman
Imagine a corrupt state really wants gold. Why wouldn’t they register a whole batch of males as female (or duplicate register as both sexes) wait 20 years then clean up the women’s events?
so, the heart of your argument itself is sexist. Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man. Athletes at this level are insanely talented and fit. Some are even genetic anomalies, which explain why they can be so good at their sport. Simone biles is really small, which is why she’s so good at flipping.
A female boxer at this level would decimate a male boxer who isn’t genetically selected for and who hasn’t trained his whole life to get to that level. Being male doesn’t make one good at sports.
On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner, requiring several hundred people to be the athletes who might be good enough to go to the event, boatloads of money to train them, and even then, they might get one through the event if the athlete isn’t injured. All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?
Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man.
No. Women should always have the option to compete against men, (and prove they are better), if they chose to. But just look at world records if you need concrete proof that males have an advantage.
Many sports there is no physical advantage and some (e.g. climbing) women have the advantage.
On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner,
Not a single event, this could be done for multiple events, even without the athlete’s knowledge. For the first decade only a few record keepers need to be in the conspiracy.
All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?
Why? You should ask cold war Russia.
What exactly do you think the Soviet Union achieved by winning a bunch of medals?
The person you are responding seems uninformed on the topic of Imane and in spreading misinform.
However, Russia does have a sordid history messing with international sports. Look up all the scandals in figure skating and also last year Olympics. I’m not sure why they do it. I think it has to do with projecting power on the world stage.
I’m steering clear of the topic of Imane.
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Propaganda and ideological superiority of communism.
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Cold war rivalry. Proxy battle.
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National pride and unity.
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International prestige.
So nothing important then.
Yes, you’ve definitely come up with a plausible reason why a Muslim country would be okay with a transgender athlete. Algeria is just desperate for international prestige. It will definitely do something or other.
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What do you think they would achieve in any practical way by winning a bunch of gold medals?
It’s the Olympics, not trade negotiations.
It’s estimated that the value of a gold medal is around $1 million in terms of economic impact, considering factors like increased tourism, sponsorship, and national pride.
Please do provide actual evidence for that claim. Specifically for a gold medal in women’s boxing.
I found that statistic on Bing. You can too.
I’m not specifically discussing women’s boxing.
Yes, you can find all kinds of fake statistics on Bing. That’s how the internet works. Let’s see the source of yours.
That’s a pathetically tiny amount of capital for a state.
You are asking about the total benefits of sending athletes to the Olympics, not the statistical weighing of gold medals in a regression model.
What the the absolute fuck are you talking about? This is some deranged paranoid nonsense.
Search the soviet unions athletic history for examples.
We already have regulations about gender in the Olympics. They’re discriminatory against transgender and intersex athletes, and disproportionately affect female athletes of color.
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Chromosome testing is still discrimination against intersex athletes.
I’m starting to think that you need some testing…
Why should testing be done over some allegation by an organization that’s not recognized by the IOC?
How do you not know that chromosomes don’t tell anything near to the whole story? You can be XX and look biologically male your whole life or XY and the opposite.
I hate it when people think something as ridiculously complex as the human genome can be summed up so simply.
What issue is that exactly?
Really living up to your name.
Injecting testosterone is considered doping. So whatever their gender is, it’s not allowed. This makes trans people by default not eligible, regardless of what gender they’re playing as.
Have a look at this list: https://www.antidopingdatabase.com/facts/prohibited-list
My personal opinion is that trans people should just get their own part of the Olympics. Otherwise there is absolutely no way to keep it fair.
Make it 2 classes, open and restricted.
Clear rules on who is allowed in the restricted class.
Edit People down voting, do you not want a restricted class?
When it’s a cis woman you’re worried about against other cis women? No? I’m starting to think that we should have civics tests to use the Internet…
It seems that, going forward, a stricter definition and (private and respectful) testing of cis categorisation would reduce the pain and suffering (from armchair commentators like ourselves) of all future competitors at top levels of womens sports.
Umm is the person in the correct weight class for this event? Yes. Okay next!
For the “men’s” event, yes. Weight is the only restriction. Women should be able to fight in the men’s event if they qualify.
For the women’s classification there must be a clear line drawn somewhere between “has given birth” and “changed their name to Sue”.
(I have no preference exactly where that line is drawn)
The youngest Olympian this year is a 12-year-old from China competing as a skateboarder. The youngest ever was an 11-year-old who competed in gymnastics.
Should we be letting those young girls know whether or not they count as girls through some sort of unspecified genetic test?
Why do you think women need to be protected by having to prove they’re women? Do you really not get that tons of women would be discouraged from competing if they felt they had to satisfy some white knight’s genetic criteria?
Should we be letting those young girls know whether or not they count as girls through some sort of unspecified genetic test?
If there is no gender advantage there is no need.
Do you want to go further and say for skateboarding and gymnastics there should be no segregation?
Women do need segregation, for saftey more than anything. There needs to be a clear line otherwise these arguments will continue to occur.
Do tell us what makes a woman a real woman.
That is an excellent question that the Olympic committee should answer clearly and definitively.
You are the one claiming she’s not a real woman. It’s up to you to define it.
They already have an answer, you just don’t like it.
I’ve not claimed anything about any individual.
I’m saying that a male/female checkbox on a passport is an inadequate test for a top level sporting event. The Olympic Committee need a better answer to avoid similar discussions in the future.
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I don’t think we know the details (beyond the blood test) because it’s privileged medical information.
She identifies as a cis female though (and was assigned Female at birth)
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Incorrect. There is no credible evidence to suggest that.
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I read it. The article never states that. Both boxers were tested and found eligible to fight before the tournament. Hours before Khelif’s championship bout against a Chinese boxer she was found ineligible. The IBA is corrupt top to bottom, from the refs to the president. “The public can read between the lines”. That’s a credible statement? The IBA is a credible source? It’s an unsubstantiated allegation. There is no credible evidence
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Man, you’re really invested in this. None, cause I’m not a gross weirdo.
Is that even the right measure? If a woman born with XY chromosomes can have a uterus and give birth naturally, what use is it?
She tested within normal testosterone levels for a woman which is significantly lower than the range for men. 15-70 vs 300-1000 ng/dL
Troll account right here👆
Less than a day old and two of the three comments are literally these two…
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How can you have an opinion on a fact?
Either provide realiable source or gtfo
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It comes from some Kremlin connected sports association. I wouldn’t even trust them with cutting my lawn
Correction three of four comments…
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Cue the Cool J.
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