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Wasn’t there some guy who set themselves a challenge where they were going to make a living without using any of their money?
I believe he had to stop after 3 months because of health concerns.
They see being poor as entertainment.
It didn’t end that quick, but he stopped after 9 months due to health concerns. The goal was to earn $1 million in a year, he had earned $62k.
And IIRC, he only did so through siphoning off the value of free facebook/craigslist furniture.
It sucks that the only reporting on this is shitty tabloids.
Don’t forget he accepted charity in the form of free housing and donations that were likely only available to him through existing connections.
Also this:
Despite failing to make the million dollars he had aimed for, Black says it was still a successful experiment after demonstrating how it was possible to rebuild his life through the power of determination.
So this dipshit learned nothing. He failed, and would probably have died in the gutter, but instead he pulled the ripcord and bailed on poverty in a way that isn’t available to 99% of humans on earth.
He had knowledge and connections to the upper echelons and he couldn’t make it, and when health concerns arose he went back to his money because it sucks to be working poor and in need of medical assistance.
He also didn’t have the stress that would come from actual failure with no money.
Bankruptcy, homelessness and real poverty fuck up your ability to succeed in a vastly underrated way.
Exactly. The calculus for taking risks is vastly different when there’s a safety net. You can treat it as a game and go all in.
On the other hand if there’s even a small chance of losing housing or getting in legal trouble or your family being destitute you take no risks - if you are a person with a sense of responsibility that is.
Yup, or you take maybe a couple risks in a lifetime, but if they don’t pan out you suffer from them for years as you go back to stability and try to regain what little of a toehold on a good life you might have had.
The very real lesson for the poor is “don’t try,” especially if you have dependents. You’ll be knocked back harder than you can imagine.
These mfs don’t know what it’s like to see loved ones start losing teeth because you made a failed push and now you’re paying it back with interest.
His father got cancer during the experiment. He considered ending it then, but he continued with the experiment.
Imagine having that sort of choice. He didn’t have to skip work to take his dad to appointments. He didn’t have to eat ramen to afford chemo. It was only when his own health was at risk that he pulled the plug.
Imagine a world where everybody had that sort of safety net. Just like, “Nope, shit’s too hard.”
For most people, it’s easier to become homeless than it is for the homeless to extricate themselves from it.
This is all political horseshit. It’s not that hard to get out of homelessness, I was homeless a lot in my late teens and early twenties. Of course freezing to death in a Canadian winter is a strong motivator. Fucking taking a shower and doing work that you’d rather not is all it takes if you’re not mentally fucked or strung out
Even the stress of worrying about money. Yeah you can take out a loan for your risky business venture when you know you won’t have to worry about paying it back. Yeah, you can couch surf for a while when you aren’t staring down the next few decades of your life.
Right, those 62k he did earn would have been gone and him probably homeless as soon as his health issues got worse. It’s a reality for a lot of Americans. Also those 62k he earned were thanks to all the education and experience he was able to get thanks to his privilege. Most people aren’t fortunate enough to have his level of education and experience to help them even get to 62k. I make 25 percent less than that and still feel fortunate of where I got to since I came from absolutely nothing.
Yea, he flipped free furniture off of Facebook. Only a rich asshole would come up with an idea like that
“If I can be a parasite, you can too*”
* just ignore that I didn’t again become a millionaire like I said I would. And just ignore all the experience and schooling I started with that others don’t.
This video was such absolute bull crap lol. He randomly found some dude on like his SECOND night homeless that let him stay in a spare room for free.
Then he flipped free stuff on Craigslist and Facebook for cash which is… fine I guess. A little sleazy but whatever. Magically found transportation and the ability to store and haul this stuff all over town but never explained any of that.
Then he majestically found someone to cosign and provide initial payments to rent like a four bedroom house that he sublet to 3 other tenants… So he found some random guy to COSIGN for him which is crazy knowing how much liability that puts on you while ALSO finding a landlord that is allowing a guy with no job, no income, no credit, no prior residences, and no money to not only rent from him with a random co signer but also allowing him to sublet to three other random ass people the landlord will never even meet. This is possible… But EXTREMELY unlikely. Also, the fact that this dude tries to do a homeless challenge by immediately becoming a landlord is pretty funny ngl. Also it’s worth noting that his final number ($64k or whatever) was revenue not profit. He said himself he was making about 50% profit so he made closer to around $30k on the year.
And on top of all that, the fact that he cites health issues as this unforeseen unfortunate issue that got in the way of his inevitable success is kinda rich. That’s… kinda the deal with poverty. You fall on hard times. Health often falls apart. Unexpected expenses destroy you. It can and often does completely tear your world apart. Thems the breaks man lol. Dude just experienced life a little and quit.
It sounds like he wasn’t using his money directly but might have used his ability to access his money to build “credit” with others.
Used his existing social credit too. All his random business successes during those 9 months were from “I know a guy that might want in on this” kind of crap.
Or scammed someone really hard which is worse.
I mean, it’s possible but unless he specifically said that he wouldn’t use his identity during the experiment, just proving who he was would be enough to trivialize the risk of even a significant loan for most people. A lender would know that whatever happens, either they’ll get paid back by him from within the experiment or he’ll pay them back as the billionaire after the experiment, maybe even rounding up to the next significant digit or something crazy like that (but still trivial for him).
Also, “I was doing an experiment” isn’t a defense against fraud. Though him being a billionaire probably means that the only penalty would be paying back the victim with maybe a little extra plus legal fees or hush money.
Nitpicking, but that’s also not like a sustainable way to conduct oneself in a society. Like his only “service” was inserting himself as an unnecessary middleman.
If everyone did that you’d have nothing but grifters making money moves on eachother, and nothing would ever get actually made. Basically, it’s not the kind of work which produces new value through labour.
Which maybe if the point idk, I’m not a total parasite
Ah, so despite having tons of advantages, they were able to find themselves right smack dab at an average income. Nice.
I could be wrong but isn’t that more than most people make in 12 months?
So it might not be possible to make millions, but for someone who has the loose ethics of millionaires it’s still possible to make significant money starting from scratch. The issue being the unethical/exploitative behavior needed to get there.
He didn’t really start from scratch, though. He used connections and training he had from before he embarked on this “experiment”.
That, and getting free stuff online and selling it for profit is kind of shitty.
That’s what I mean by loose ethics and exploitation.
Eh, that’s a common hustle among people who need money.
Not really something to be held up as an example of success. Not everyone can do that, or it wouldn’t work. Plus there are people who could use that free stuff that he’s essentially stealing from. Just goes to show that this guy has no ethics.
Honestly, I would argue at least a portion of those items would get thrown away if he hadn’t gotten them. When someone wants something gone, and when a different person wants to acquire that particular thing don’t always align. It’s tweaker arbitrage, but it’s not that big a deal IMHO.
The real moral failing from my perspective is not recognizing how much help he got, and how ‘lucky’ he was.
But the kind of thing rich people do. Also, why does lemmy say that you answered @Zorque@lemmy.world before they even wrote their comment?
Anybody can get training at a community college or do networking. This isn’t exclusive to millionaires.
One of his connections provided him with free housing
0-62k in a year aint bad tbf
Sure, without any debt plus free housing and donations from folks you already know.
*chose to stop
*because of high health care prices
And as far as I know they have not used any of their privilege to do anything to change that situation for others who don’t have that choice.
It’s because the problem was being poor.
So…stop being poor.
It’s easy. He just proved it!
(Massive /s but sadly, for the privileged guy, not sarcasm)
Omg you’re so right!
If the experiment was a success, shouldn’t he help others with that path?
Or maybe that path was overinflated as much as possible…
imagine the privilege to just quit being homeless for health concerns while a lot of people go homeless because of health complications. so he ended where homeless people frequently start. fuck that guy.
He wasn’t homeless. He had free shelter by staying with a friend. Nothing luxurious, but he wasn’t living on and from the streets. He also only made the money because he called in a “favor” from a business partner that let him sell some niche shit for more money lol
All in all it was a total failure, he realized how much of a failure it was and then backed out feigning “health concerns” to save face.
He made $62k and called that a success. Why not then use said $62k to fix his health issues? Wouldn’t that be much more realistic in terms of unplanned medical costs setting back a lot of Americans?
That’s revenue not profit. He said he only made about 50% profit, so he made about 30k for the year.
Healthcare doesn’t count , it’s too rng based.
There’s that guy, but there’s also the whole trustafarian “subculture”.
It’s also not one or two billion, it’s multiple hundreds of billion owned by one person. I don’t think you can overstress the difference in scale between millions, hundred millions, billions, and hundred billions.
There used to be taxes assessed by total asset valuation that focused more on wealthy individuals because they don’t earn as much from income it’s mostly assets increasing in value like property or ownership shares, that was stopped when they introduced the income tax that mostly targets low and middle class people who almost exclusively earn by income.
Loopholes like offshore accounts used to dodge income taxes by higher earners should be illegal, but the whole system is backwards forcing the least prosperous to shoulder the largest tax burden instead of the wealthiest who benefit from society the most.
What’s stopping the wealthy from just up and leaving? They could liquidate their assets and invest in somewhere with tax laws more favourable to them.
Liquidate to who? Are those assets things they can take with them, or are they things like buildings that stay right where they are?
Anyone who would buy. Unless you’re sentimentally attached to something then I doubt you’d have a difficult time selling it. Billionaires own property as investment, not for use. Just sell it to another billionaire and buy property in a country more favourable to you. As for things like cars, collections, yachts, and other such mobile assets, just stick them on a container ship and unpack at your destination.
But then there has to be at least one billionaire who is staying right there, and can be taxed.
Yeah that sounds awesome let’s divide those 200 billions into 333 million people and let’s get a whooping one time only 600 USD extra for the month. Then let’s repeat it again.
It sure will last foreverrrrrrrrr
First of all 200 billion is chump change compared to how much the wealthy have. Second, spreading money would do far more to stimulate the economy than wealthy people buying yachts, flying into space, and visiting the Titanic.
I am sure if you removed your mouth from the wealthy’s cocks for a moment you would realize how fucked up the situation is. But I know you will just suck it foreverrrrrrrrrrr hoping they will gild you into their club.
Stimulate the economy LMAO 🤣
Bro just admit you don’t know shit about how money works and leave it at that haha
The money itself is not the only reason. Eliminating their undue influence is.
Foreverrrrrrrrr
The fact that you already confiscated them. Since we’re talking hypotheticals though, you could confiscate those assets at the border. Or set up international treaties with a look-back provision.
See, what I don’t like about this is that if you have the power to confiscate a billionaire’s possessions for no other reason that they’re a billionaire, then there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from turning that power against anyone you don’t like. And I’m not talking “you” as in you specifically, or anyone with a sense of morality and ethics, but “you” as in the inevitable exploitative scum that would at some point hold that power.
Now, if the confiscation is contingent on a billionaire commiting a crime then that’s another thing, but then the billionaire would actually have to commit a crime. And if you made tax law ironclad then sure, if they break the law then they should have their things confiscated in recompense. But that’s assuming that the trial wouldn’t be bogged down in court by a billionaire being able to throw money at the problem.
Every billionaire has committed wage theft. Wage theft is a crime.
you have the power to confiscate a billionaire’s possessions for no other reason that they’re a billionaire, then there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from turning that power against anyone you don’t like.
This is already how it is for poor people…
contingent on a billionaire commiting a crime
Weird how so many crimes are the things poor people do out of desperation rather than the things rich people do to coerce poor people to do the things poor people don’t want to do…
You seem to be under the assumptions that hoarding vast wealth to the point of extreme inequality is benign and not damaging to society & individuals living in that type of civilization, and that limiting extreme wealth inequality for billionaires means they’re coming for everyone next with no limits. These are some of the main ingredients in cooking an oligarchy soup.
No, I’m well aware that it’s damaging and I’m not a proponent of the system. You would do well not to make assumptions. My problem is that the people that take power are rarely the ones who will use it with temperance. I see no way that the same laws used to penalize the accumulation of wealth wouldn’t be applied to dissidents regardless of class. Rather than having an oligarchy of private citizens, you’ll have an oligarchy of people with government powers. At least in the current system there’s a degree of separation. What’s needed is a way to strengthen the people, not to punish the wealthy. And I have some ideas for that, but I doubt any would be feasible.
If that were to happen, my cream would rise to the top.
You know what else rises to the top of liquid?
A turd.
Uh… my turds sink. Is there a problem with my diet?
To be fair, stones also usually sink but those red volcanic ones have so much air in them they will float in enough water. And how else would you describe most of these billionaires besides turds full of hot air?
If they float, it typically means the person is consuming too much fat in their diet. Not always but moat times.
I need to start shitting in moats again
What do you call fine paintings floating in a water-filled ditch? Mozart!
That’s close to being a joke.
Stool’s ability to float is usually related to air. A high fiber diet and gas can cause stool to float. A diet high in fiber leads to increased bacterial fermentation during digestion. This produces more air, which can get trapped in stool, causing it to float.
Source: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325274
This same source says that too much fat could also cause floating, but from a different article:
Some people think that floating poop is caused by fat, but it’s usually caused by gas. Research has indicated that once floating stools were degassed, they weighed the same as sinking poop. This indicates that gas was responsible for making floating stools float, rather than fat inside the poop.
Source: https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/what-to-know-about-floating-stools
But, in general, not necessarily something to worry about.
Which fits perfectly to the metaphor
Don’t floaters mean not enough fiber in diet?
Normal turds slowly sink. If they sink like a stone, you are eating too much fiber, if they float you ate too much fat or have an irritated bowel.
Randy Savage?
Who do I vote for to make this happen?
Or is that French shortening device the only way at this point?Vote in favor of the union at your workplace
Removed by mod
A millionaire tried doing this and gave up
Billionaires hold a tiny percentage of their wealth in money, so taking all their money away wouldn’t even make them stop being a billionaire.
Let’s remove their control of all that wealth, then. If they’re so good, they’ll soon be in control of more.
That would be fascinating to find out. It would be such a badass move, too, if one of them were to give everything away to show they could do it again. I think it actually would be fine for quite a few of them. Their reputation would get them in so many doors and get them so many investors for whatever they get into after the big giveaway. To really do this experiment well, they would need to get plastic surgery and change their identity so they can really have a fresh start.
It would also be interesting to see the effect it would have on whatever they were doing before their exit. I guess it really depends on who gets their shares/power. If it goes to the government, then in most cases, things would probably get worse, I’d imagine. If it somehow gets evenly distributed amongst the world’s population, that could be interesting. How would amazon fair if we all got 1/8B of Bezos shares? That would be quite interesting.
You’re a little biased against public sector, and seem to be in favor or privatization. I assume your incorrect understanding of public versus private sector efficiency is based on the cliche that public workers are so lazy or whatever.
But here’s an interesting article discussing the issue. I myself am biased against private sector in favor of the benefits of public sector efficiencies (no profit motive for example). But it’s an interesting article.
What did I say that made you think I have an “incorrect understanding of public versus private sector”?
Do you mean that because I think the government wouldn’t be good at running a business that I misunderstood something? The us government is famously bad about spending outrageous amounts for simple things. Cups that cost over $1,000, toilet seats for over $10,000… there’s tons of things like this. That may be fine when you don’t have to worry about being profitable, but it won’t fly when trying to run a business.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/opinion/pentagon-budget-military-spending-waste.html
I’m not sure the United States military is the example you think it is
You’re so cryptic. I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but you really don’t answer clearly or explain your reasoning.
I mean, I guess the us military is the largest military in the world apparently even if you added up all the other militaries together.
So by your logic there is no other private or public military that is better than the United States, but their goal is being the best, so but, and
If you are suggesting that the military of a government can be better run by a private organization, such as a corporation…. I mean, I guess you are saying that oligarchy and corporate rule is better than democracy?
To start with such a large organization won’t benefit your argument in any way
, and I suppose the service of the military is being the best?
IIRC the reason military spending is so extreme is because the US military is required by law to have the paperwork to prove their entire supply chain is domestic, as part of a worst case readiness thing. Could be wrong though, not like I’ve really looked into it all that much.
The US military gets so much stuff from other countries. There was a “Buy American Act” about 100 years ago, which still stands, but it allows for so many exceptions that get used very often. There have been a few other similar acts since then, but they all include well-used exceptions.
What does this have to do with comparing the public us military to a similar private organization?
When the service provided is influencing world politics and securing our country, I don’t think efficiency means the same thing. I also don’t think there are any other private sector businesses that could compare to us military. And even if there are, I would assume that all of their workers were trained by the us military.
I’ll take some Amazon shares from Bezos.
I would honestly hold them and demand more ethics from the company that I now “own a part of”.
If enough people do this…
In this experiment, you wouldn’t have that power because you would only get a tiny fraction of the shares. The interesting bit would be to see what would happen to the company if everyone had a tiny say in what happens. Judging by the fact that most people are quite selfish, I think it may not be too much better for the workers.
What you’re describing would amount to either eminent domain or civil asset forfeiture, both things that you really shouldn’t be resorting to for money unless you’ve run out of all other options to cover a budget and have a spectacular plan to get the country back onto regular revenue with that money already in place, because that window can only be broken into once.
This is a silly thought experiment to point out that billionaires do not earn their own wealth, and you treat it like it’s proposed as an actual economic plan for the whole country?
… rofl
Why not? What about it being a silly thought experiment invalidates wanting to look closer at it?
Billionaires do not earn their wealth. That’s the through line.
Because it is specifically NOT an economic plan. At all. It’s a basic concept that would have to be fleshed out in order to even have an actual mechanism to test. Eminent domain is silly, because very, very few people want billionaires’ wealth going to the government.
Not necessarily. If you want to do a new thing, make a new rule
For example, send them a tax bill for 99% their net worth. Offer to accept assets at the calculated market price and the government can sell it slowly, or let them sell it off for pennies on the dollar and submit their new net worth for an adjusted amount
Obviously that’s super heavy handed, but you can slice it a million different ways
Take their assets.
Give them to who?
The people who built them.
That would be interesting. Anyone who has over a billion dollars is forced to distribute their wealth across anyone who has ever worked for them. Even more interesting than this would be to do it for anyone who has ever worked for anyone else. All boss/employee relationships. I wonder how this would change the world.
This was tested…sort of. He didn’t give away his money he just supposedly didn’t make use of it essentially hitting the road as a fake homeless and making money by selling stuff he bought on facebook market.
The fellow was a millionaire not a billionaire and I think he went from nothing to ~50k in nearly a year. He called it off early because he was basically destroying his health.
Yeah, with friends housing him and hiring him 🤡
Not to mention that actually poor people don’t have a cheat code to get them out when their health suffers. Which then makes them less able to keep working at maximum mental and physical capacity.
So this was nothing but a demonstration that nepotism and money is what one really needs.
He could also take higher risks, since he knew that there was a security net to catch him. Much easier to make high risk/reward decisions, if the risk (e.g. going broke) isn’t actually real. He presumably also had an above average education and many other benefits. This is also why many rich people might end up building successful businesses. The average person might get one shot and either makes it or goes broke. The rich person can roll the dice multiple times (and might have learned something from the last try).
Also disregarding everything even, if he had succeded: That would still only have been a sample size of one. I doubt anyone is saying that you can’t under any circumstances pull yourself out of poverty, but on average the cards are just stacked against you in many ways.
Also i doubt that reselling second hand stuff is a viable business model for a larger group. Like sure in a large city a few people might be able to carve out a niche for themself, but the more people do it or the smaller the market, the less it works.
So you have a link? That sounds interesting as.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13332399/Millionaire-Mike-Black-homeless-broke-purpose-ends-bizarre-social-experiment.html He made 64,000 before he tapped out. His trajectory is also not entirely kosher
Eventually, a man with an RV allowed him to stay for several nights in his van. Black started off small and managed to make his first $300 by selling furniture online.
Nobody lets a homeless stay in their van to bootstrap their buy and sell craigslist furniture business
Three months into the challenge, Black’s entrepreneurial spirit appeared to shine through having set himself up as a social media manager, managing to land clients - while even coming up with his own brand of coffee.
Most people who were homeless 90 days prior is going to be in a position to be appointed someone’s social media manager or else they likely wouldn’t even be homeless in the first place.
Even with obvious cheat codes he couldn’t get more than 64k starting from “zero” wherein zero means being homeless in nice gear with your $1000 phone and unlimited internet plan with a health plan and a GP and specialists
Throughout the entire project, we haven’t shared it with you, but I’ve been in and out of the doctor’s office.’
I say tax rates should be decided based on wealth shares.
Break it down like this, brackets set at the 20th, 40th, 60th, 80th, 95th, and 99th percentiles of household incomes.
People in the 20th 40th and 60th percentile brackets pay a tax rate equal to how much wealth is controlled by households in each of those brackets.
People in the 80 and 95 brackets pay twice the share they control.
People in the 99 bracket pay three times, and also can’t hold public office for ten years after the last time they peak this bracket because, objectively, they are doing just fine for themselves and don’t need to be going ahead of others who have actual problems a nation should be focused on addressing.
Also, with very few exceptions like a mortgage on a primary residence or a car loan for a primary vehicle, loans collateralized on capital assets are treated as income for tax purposes.
100% It will work.
Division of labor would suggest the people that are best at hunting money, hunt the money for the tribe while the others do other stuff.
What’s fun is everytime something like this is tried, it fails spectacularly… and they know that.
When in history did anybody take away billionaires’ money?
There was a recent case of a young billionaire who basically signed over everything to a family member to live on the street to prove he could “Make millions from nothing!” and that the poors “Were just being lazy”
It didn’t end well for him and he begged mommy to give him his wealth back because going too long without his gold-plated jaquzzi was hard
The French revolution and other related uprisings. See: Romanov family vs Bolsheviks.
Edit: it was a joke ffs
They took away power and status, not primarily the money.
Eh, those kids had a lot of diamonds on them.
They killed left and right, we’re talking about like taxing unusable wealth from peop’e who don’t need it (and didn’t earn it in any kind of morally okay way).
Not gonna lie, had me in the first half
Not me, but only because I’ve watched his videos on YouTube. The man is a brilliant comedian IMO.
I mean those who have a crap ton of money have it because they don’t mind exploiting others in terrible ways to get it. So maybe the cream would rise back up to the top psychopaths.
Naw, I’m down with exploiting others for personal gain but I simply lack the capital to do so in the same way as the ultra rich.
I’m not going to pretend every low income person is some ethical ideal, because I sure as fuck aren’t.
And that’s why like laws and shit are needed to prevent that exploitation or whatever.
True they’d need to keep at least a few million to rise back to the top
Don’t underestimate the power of social capital.
Don’t forget, Nepotism and “net working” aka groups of sociopaths working together to shear the sheep…
If you take their money, they still have their connections, as long as the other wolves don’t turn on them.
Edit: as another poster said “social capital” is a thing.
