Why are you hung up on the “dragons aren’t real” thing? That was never a requirement. Some people will argue that being trans isn’t real, being plural isn’t real, being genderfluid isn’t real, being bigender or another gender entirely isn’t real. (Not that you are claiming this.) As such, the admins there simply decided that there won’t be a line drawn. Let people do what they want. Heck, you could consider it “roleplaying” if you’re more comfortable with that, or alternatively, simply don’t engage. It’s disrespectful and not to mention disruptive to make it an issue.
I mean, apparently so, but I was not operating under the assumption that “We don’t believe in gender, this is all roleplay” was the base state of the instance, and many others seem surprised by it too.
Three feet to your right is “trans women are roleplaying women”. You may not hold that view explicitly, but the rules around respecting identity in that instance exist for that reason. And that means accepting identities that are challenging, even if they are being used by shitty people.
You missed the point of the comment you’re replying to. To a lot of people, garden-variety binary trans people are “absurd and contradictory to reality”. To even more people, nonbinary people are.
Blahaj lemmy’s admins have decided that they will not draw a line, because they don’t want to be the arbiters of what is valid. That does mean some extreme cases don’t get decided the way you would, and that’s fine! Just block those cases.
Whatever identity they have, I don’t care. The internet’s big enough for everyone. It’s not my problem, not my life, live and let live.
“Transphobes hate trans people because they don’t think trans people are real; therefore, in order to not be transphobic, you must admit reality doesn’t exist” isn’t very compelling.
Most ordinary folk would opine that transphobia is bad precisely because trans folk do exist in reality and are valid.
What part of the removed comments do you think was considered gatekeeping by the admins, if not the statements that dragons aren’t real?
there won’t be a line drawn
Then any interaction in that superposition of reality and fiction is pointless. Acknowledgment of reality will be arbitrarily censored, such as above. It ceases to be roleplay and becomes a localized Ministry of Truth with the admins kowtowing to the trolls.
Let people do what they want.
People wanted to state the obvious about objective reality. Admin did not let them do that. People wanted to distinguish between reality and fiction. Admin did not let them do that.
By questioning the person’s neopronouns, you’re gatekeeping which identities or pronouns are acceptable. Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not. Many letters of the alphabet mafia have been questioned on whether they are real or not, and even continue to be, so over here, we’re simply not doing that.
As for why you’re being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you’re making a big stink about it. Considering you’re admitting yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it’s time to admit your loss. You “fell” for them, got “tricked” into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.
I’m not questioning the neopronouns. It’s an oversimplification to suggest that those are the singular reason people believe the account to be a troll and that is the same myopic reasoning I read from the admin. Read the troll’s directly harmful posts/comments and read between the lines on their more covert insidious posts/comments.
Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not.
People caring about an objective reality is singularly why we’re having this conversation. The users were banned for stating that they aren’t real. Are you trying to troll me too or are you just not following any of this whatsoever?
As for why you’re being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you’re making a big stink about it. Considering you’re admitted yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it’s time to admit your loss. You “fell” for them, got “tricked” into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.
None of that applies to me apart from me stating that the user is a troll. The banned users were not tricked; the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute. You likewise have been tricked into defending the absurd on moral principle rather than logic.
I didn’t ask why. I asked to whom. If I disrespect a troll, then good. If I disrespect those who choose to be gullible, then they shouldn’t have chosen to be gullible.
the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute
This is where we disagree. As far as neopronouns go, drag/drag is still pretty tame. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to just go along with a persons preferred way of being referred to, in a space where doing so is expected. You’re not supposed to decide on your own whether it’s worth respecting depending on whether you think this person is a troll.
The reason? There’s plenty of people out there, say on the spectrum, who often have trouble with being mistaken as a troll, for lack of being able to state their opinions and thoughts properly, or any other reason. I have personal experience with one such person. And their identity deserves to respected just the same as anyone else, even if their takes and opinions you are free to argue with.
Even if you know someone’s obviously faking being trans (Josh Seiter comes to mind), it doesn’t hurt anyone to just go along with using the pronouns they asked for, while criticizing them where it actually matters.
Why are you hung up on the “dragons aren’t real” thing? That was never a requirement. Some people will argue that being trans isn’t real, being plural isn’t real, being genderfluid isn’t real, being bigender or another gender entirely isn’t real. (Not that you are claiming this.) As such, the admins there simply decided that there won’t be a line drawn. Let people do what they want. Heck, you could consider it “roleplaying” if you’re more comfortable with that, or alternatively, simply don’t engage. It’s disrespectful and not to mention disruptive to make it an issue.
It was never a requirement that serious expressions of identity be real?
Yes. Them’s the rules on Blåhaj Lemmy.
I mean, apparently so, but I was not operating under the assumption that “We don’t believe in gender, this is all roleplay” was the base state of the instance, and many others seem surprised by it too.
Three feet to your right is “trans women are roleplaying women”. You may not hold that view explicitly, but the rules around respecting identity in that instance exist for that reason. And that means accepting identities that are challenging, even if they are being used by shitty people.
They’re exactly the opposite of what he just said.
It’s not about the person being shitty, it’s about the identity itself being absurd and contradictory to reality.
You missed the point of the comment you’re replying to. To a lot of people, garden-variety binary trans people are “absurd and contradictory to reality”. To even more people, nonbinary people are.
Blahaj lemmy’s admins have decided that they will not draw a line, because they don’t want to be the arbiters of what is valid. That does mean some extreme cases don’t get decided the way you would, and that’s fine! Just block those cases.
Whatever identity they have, I don’t care. The internet’s big enough for everyone. It’s not my problem, not my life, live and let live.
You’re so close to getting my point. It’s like right there.
“Transphobes hate trans people because they don’t think trans people are real; therefore, in order to not be transphobic, you must admit reality doesn’t exist” isn’t very compelling.
Most ordinary folk would opine that transphobia is bad precisely because trans folk do exist in reality and are valid.
What part of the removed comments do you think was considered gatekeeping by the admins, if not the statements that dragons aren’t real?
Then any interaction in that superposition of reality and fiction is pointless. Acknowledgment of reality will be arbitrarily censored, such as above. It ceases to be roleplay and becomes a localized Ministry of Truth with the admins kowtowing to the trolls.
People wanted to state the obvious about objective reality. Admin did not let them do that. People wanted to distinguish between reality and fiction. Admin did not let them do that.
Disrespectful to whom? Trolls? Reality?
By questioning the person’s neopronouns, you’re gatekeeping which identities or pronouns are acceptable. Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not. Many letters of the alphabet mafia have been questioned on whether they are real or not, and even continue to be, so over here, we’re simply not doing that.
As for why you’re being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you’re making a big stink about it. Considering you’re admitting yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it’s time to admit your loss. You “fell” for them, got “tricked” into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.
I’m not questioning the neopronouns. It’s an oversimplification to suggest that those are the singular reason people believe the account to be a troll and that is the same myopic reasoning I read from the admin. Read the troll’s directly harmful posts/comments and read between the lines on their more covert insidious posts/comments.
People caring about an objective reality is singularly why we’re having this conversation. The users were banned for stating that they aren’t real. Are you trying to troll me too or are you just not following any of this whatsoever?
None of that applies to me apart from me stating that the user is a troll. The banned users were not tricked; the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute. You likewise have been tricked into defending the absurd on moral principle rather than logic.
I didn’t ask why. I asked to whom. If I disrespect a troll, then good. If I disrespect those who choose to be gullible, then they shouldn’t have chosen to be gullible.
This is where we disagree. As far as neopronouns go, drag/drag is still pretty tame. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to just go along with a persons preferred way of being referred to, in a space where doing so is expected. You’re not supposed to decide on your own whether it’s worth respecting depending on whether you think this person is a troll.
The reason? There’s plenty of people out there, say on the spectrum, who often have trouble with being mistaken as a troll, for lack of being able to state their opinions and thoughts properly, or any other reason. I have personal experience with one such person. And their identity deserves to respected just the same as anyone else, even if their takes and opinions you are free to argue with.
Even if you know someone’s obviously faking being trans (Josh Seiter comes to mind), it doesn’t hurt anyone to just go along with using the pronouns they asked for, while criticizing them where it actually matters.