Lacy said the family also reported that after the shooting, the family was forced out of the home while officers “rummaged through their house looking for any justification for shooting and killing Ryan”.
Not a good look.
Yet it happens every fucking time. 😡
Probably should go watch the actual video: https://dailycaller.com/2024/03/11/ryan-gainer-video-deputy-fatally-shooting-15-year-old-boy-autism/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral
He’s told to drop it, and literally chases the officer out of the house with it trying to kill him. Bodycam from 2 angles.
Edit: Ok, I read the article. Yeah, him charging at the cop with that tool was a really bad move. I still think the situation could have been handled differently. Could have.
Tasers, batons, or just run away. Diffuse the situation. Imagine a judge saying “You charged against a cop with a gardening tool? Sentenced to DEATH!”
The boy didn’t get a fair trial. He was murdered with no justification.
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He was murdered, if you shoot someone in the back while they are fleeing you are a murderer.
The cop that shot him is a murderer and a coward.
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Edit: Ok, I read the article. Yeah, him charging at the cop with that tool was a really bad move. I still think the situation could have been handled differently. Could have.
Police in other countries are constantly able to non-lethally subdue people wielding knives. Do not normalize this reaction.
Thanks. I’m really not normalizing this, though it’s a good suggestion for other readers.
There was a video posted on reddit, where a cop got stabbed in the neck and died because he was slow to shoot, batons are worthless
lol batons aren’t worthless.
I’ll believe you once you manage to out-fence an assailant with a sharp-edged weapon with your worthy baton
You never know! I may not be able to, but what if I may?
It seems like you’re saying that batons are worthless for this situation, which may be true.
But your original comment seemed more general, as in “batons are worthless [all the time],” which is not true.
As a father of a child with Autism I feel I am more than adequately equipped to respond to this.
I don’t think many, if any, neurotypical people understand how Autism can impact a person’s ability to process the world in a way that is deemed “normal”. This child may not be verbal, may have aggression issues, may have a learning disability, etc.
The last thing that should have happened is someone pulling a gun.
I cry thinking something like this could happen with my son. All it takes is one bad interaction with someone who has absolutely no experience with Autism and this can happen.
For anyone reading this, do yourself a favour. Volunteer with autistic people. It could be at school or in the community but you all need to learn that Autism does not look like the doctor in The Good Doctor.
I cry thinking something like this could happen with my son.
Gotta prepare him for when he is antagonized
My nephew is autistic, ODD and goes violent when going overboard
The more he is antagonized young, the better he learns how to deal with it. He is getting much better at understanding himself and controlling himself in situations he wouldn’t have a few years ago
I posted a similar comment before seeing your more eloquent reply. All I can say is you are 100% right about this:
I don’t think many, if any, neurotypical people understand how Autism can impact a person’s ability to process the world in a way that is deemed “normal”. This child may not be verbal, may have aggression issues, may have a learning disability, etc.
And the people who should MOST be aware of this? Those who we issue a gun and a badge.
He was attacking people and hurting people already. This isn’t a situation where he was irritated and the corner and someone provoked him, he was already violent when the officer’s arrived.
In Canada (afaik) cops rarely kill anyone who is not wielding a gun, this includes people out of their minds on drugs wielding knives. They are usually able to disarm and subdue the suspect by non-lethal means.
The idea that a 15 year old kid running at a cop should be shot on sight is absolutely absurd and only normalized in the US, please reconsider your perspective.
All that said cops still fucking suck in Canada and have a history of being racists and abusive.
You need to update your preconceived notions because I don’t think you’re paying attention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sammy_Yatim
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/police-wellness-checks-deaths-indigenous-black-1.5622320
I am 100% open to having my opinion changed, hense “afaik” and my last sentence. Sending me news articles proves nothing since my wording was ‘rarely’ not ‘never’.
A quick google search shows that police in Canada killed 30% less people per capita (in 2022), so it seems our cops are a little bit less shitty but still pretty shitty.
… So why didn’t the officers just fucking leave the house?! There’s no reason for them to stand their ground here. Retreat to safety and call for a crisis counselor and psychiatrist to come help. Call the boy’s parents.
Fragile masculinity is why those pussy ass cops shot a kid. I hope it tortures them for the rest of their days. And I hope whenever they see a kid with autism from here on out, they’re forced to realize what they’ve done.
The San Bernardino county sheriff’s department was responding to a 911 call on Saturday from a family reporting that a boy, identified as Ryan Gainer, was attacking his family at their home
If you watch the actual video the sheriff goes into the house to find him and the teenager comes charging out trying to attack him. The officer did leave, he fled while telling him to stop. He didn’t stop and continued to chase him with the weapon and he was shot.
He’s also autistic and a pig shouting at him probably didn’t even register as anything but a threat.
Father of an autistic teen here - very good chance that kid couldn’t even begin to understand that the police gun would not only harm him, but kill him dead.
He possibly didn’t understand or was too deep into an autistic meltdown (overstimulated fight or flight response) by that point to possibly comply with the commands from the officer, and (looking at my own son as an example) I doubt that he comprehended the seriousness of wielding such a weapon at the cop or at anyone.
My son knows he has to be careful with knives, and that he generally shouldn’t touch them unsupervised.
Does he know he could hurt someone with it? Yes I think so.
Does he know it’s even possible to stab someone to death with it? He doesn’t even have a concept of “dead” vs “asleep” and has never witnessed a wound that couldn’t be healed with a bandaid. Explaining these concepts in abstract is of very limited value with him.
They need to send more cops, and with
nonlethalsless lethals, and try harder not to kill these kids - many of whom exist in a world that almost entirely works in a way they don’t understand, no matter how intelligent they may be otherwise.Elijah McClain
Linden Cameron (not dead, but not for lack of trying)
Ryan Gainer
My list of “names of autistic kids shot or killed by cops” that I can list off without trying is slowly getting longer.
As I always say - I can’t imagine more a of a nightmare than my son interacting with police while neither me nor my wife is present. I’d be less worried if he was playing in traffic. At least I can count on people driving down the street trying not to kill him. And that’s really sad because I wish I could count on the help of police if ever he would need it.
Saw body cam footage like that once. Guy is on the ground bleeding out and the cop is searching the car for the gun that will justify it. Guy was bleeding out because when asked for his ID reached for his wallet
I didn’t even have to open the article to see the boy’s skin color. And I’m not remotely shocked.
There are great questions as to whether it was appropriate to use deadly force against a 15-year-old autistic kid who was having an episode,
Ooh, I can answer this one:
No
I’ll write that down as a “maybe”.
To the cops? Yes.
Mental illness is always a license for them to kill, it happens ridiculously often even by statistical count.
Something about unexpected responses and unpredictable reactions to shouting and gun waving that give the pigs an excuse to shoot.
Remember that deaf guy that was killed because of his whittling knife? I don’t think the cop suffered any consequences except a paid vacation and an innocent and confused life was lost and the world turns on.
Just crossing the street and clueless the cop was even calling out and bam bam bam shot from behind and he died bleeding out in confusion and fear.
And 1/3 of the country applauded the cop for his community centered focus on reducing the number of undesirables.
Another child murdered.
I will not shed a single tear for when cops get shot and killed.
US cops really have stored up an incredible amount of badwill, haven’t they? Now, I can’t help but see Nolan’s Batman film (whichever the one is with cops in tunnels), Brooklyn 99 and others as straight up copaganda. Just zero sympathy. The balance will shift at some point, it has to.
To be fair Brooklyn 99 dunks on cops. Like a lot.
Final. season was really interesting I that regard. Real cop propaganda is The Rookie. It is shameless.
The final season was less humorous about it. But even in the earlier seasons, the vast majority of cops outside of the 99 are incompetent, corrupt, or both. Comparatively, Wuntch is one of the least bad in the force.
Law & Order
Blue Bloods is the worst of them. Flat out abusing people in custody followed by a friendly family Sunday dinner.
Yeah I knew a cop who can’t stand that show because of how blunt it’s propaganda, pro-police violence, and anti-civil rights the show is.
Most depictions of LE in action movies are copoganda. I mean, shit: the Dirty Harry/ Legal Weapon trope of cops needing to sidestep the rules is so fucked when you think about it
3rd Batman movie, the one that made even less sense than a superhero movie normally makes.
The entire plan depends on a fusion reactor acting like a fission bomb that Bane didn’t even know was down there, Blackgate being moved within city limits after the events of the second movie for no clear reason, and a letter that again no one knew existed while the plan was being carried out.
Also if he broke Batman’s back why not just kill him? Why give him a chance to escape?
Also if he broke Batman’s back why not just kill him? Why give him a chance to escape?
He explains that he wants batman to watch his city deteriorate to chaos or whatever.
By putting him in an underground prison where he can’t see it happening?
Also why? In the comics Bane removed Batman because he was a threat not because of a personal grievance.
He has a TV showing him Gotham news or some shit. idc what happens in the comic. I’m not defending the movie just telling you what I remember from watching this movie like 10 years ago. There’s a lot of stupid shit in the movie but it’s made abundantly clear why he’s alive and in prison.
Who watches the watchmen?
Dr. Manhattan
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Cops killing children dealing with mental help episodes and get rewarded with more funding is something that makes me sick. Body Cam footage shouldn’t depend on if cops feel like releasing it should be sent to an independent party automatically. RIP Ryan.
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense… Do you think the criminal justice system will hand-wave it away as easily as this?
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense…
The thing is, liberals want to see this as some kind of exercise in fairness. “Oh if can shoot me then I can shoot them!”
No. This is a gang-violence thing. The MS-13 gang member can shoot you because he’s got a gun and years of psychological scarring and a willingness to kill to survive. You can’t shoot the gang member, because all his buddies will show up at your house, hold you down and skin your dog alive while you’re forced to watch, then bust out all your teeth and hang you out to dry as an example.
Cops work the same way.
This. I forget the court ruling, but there was one, that found you are legally allowed to defend yourself against a police officer who is not acting lawfully, up to and including killing the cop… But good luck surviving that long.
… and proving it. In the end he could likely have been in plain cloths, no badge, in a bar after work and could still somehow claim to have announced himself and tried to prevent some bad perceived crime and it would be fine. Or if he got killed they would likely pull out is glorious career and what good cop he was to argue that he MUST have acted rightfully.
Sadly true
Well you’re not a cop and have a gun, so this side is the Internet already thinks you’re a fascist gun nut and belong locked away.
this says more about your subs than anything because i see a lot of socialists on here who cannot wait to tell me about their soviet pistol
Everything openly pro-gun seems to get downvoted to oblivion here, never truly “everyone” but the balance is certainly favors civilian disarmament.
Yeah I don’t like idiots with guns sorry
Does that include police and military, do you want to abolish those as well, or do they get a special exemption from your “idiots with guns” umbrella because they use them to do others bidding?
The police are the last ones that should have guns
No, I don’t know who is an idiot and who isn’t, so less people having guns means less idiots have guns. police and military have vetting and training, regular citizens do not.
Vetted people with impunity and different interests from your own. But vetted, yes.
After a cops own well-being comes the “blue wall of silence”, then their actual orders, and finally you, you come last in their priorities.
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For some reason this is unpopular, but I don’t think a police officer should be allowed to remove their firearm from its holster until actual assault has occurred, unless non-police citizens are in danger.
A cop merely being scared should never be a reason somebody dies.
If you can’t handle the pressure, don’t be a fucking cop.
… and I can’t believe I have to add this, but not obeying is almost never a valid reason to just start blasting. If no one is in danger, police have the power of radios, time, reinforcements
Watch a YouTube channel like Police Activity and you’ll see plenty of OIS / body cam videos where if that were the rule there would be a lot of very dead cops.
And the reality we have now is a lot of dead citizens who didn’t sign up to a job inherently involving danger. Is that a preferable situation?
You think there would be less dead citizens if cops waited to pull their guns until after assault? Go and watch a OIS channel like Police Activity and come back with a straight face and claim that.
I think there are plenty of other options that exist before drawing weapons. And I think the comparative successes of police in other countries justify this belief. So yes, I do strongly believe that on the whole there would be less dead total, citizen and cop combined, if police were restricted from drawing their firearm until danger has been actualized and were thus instead forced to focus time and resources on necessary de-escalation training.
I wonder how well the police killing rates correlate with civilian homicide rates. Is our police shooting problem in the US just a reflection of our angry adversarial culture?
Glancing at the stats by country on Wikipedia, no surprises. The US is better than many rough places in the world, but the rest of the developed world just humiliates us.
Police in other countries don’t face an epidemic of guns, crime, homelessness, drugs and mental health issues. If the US wasn’t so dysfunctional and actually attempted to tackle these issues in a holistic way then I assume the role of cops would also change. But right now it is not that way. They are trained so if someone comes at them with a knife, or draws a weapon to threaten the cop or somebody else, they WILL shoot. Watch the body cam footage on https://www.youtube.com/@PoliceActivity/videos or the state cop channel of your choice and you’ll see exactly why.
And to repeat what I said somewhere else, I’m not on the cop’s side, but I am on the side of full disclosure and body cam footage to show context. I support defunding the police - although, not the name which is a fantastically stupid way to describe it - but supporting mental health services, tackling drugs & recidivism and other assistance would mean less people in these confrontations.
I have been watching a ton of those channels lately. It’s interesting to see how things go down in the real world without a bunch of annoying editing and interruptions.
There are of course many cases where the cops give somebody a hundred chances to stand down or comply with orders or whatever. But there is probably also a strong bias in choosing the clips. These channels seem to heavily lean towards “criminal’s day went from bad to worse” or the opposite towards “idiot cop tries to arrest innocent person / does not know the law.”
Most major police forces in the US release footage of officer involved shootings. I think predominantly they show the police using lethal force appropriately. There are some occasions where they clearly don’t, or where you wonder how it got to the situation where the cops were put in a position to have to defend themselves from somebody that the system could have helped.
Yeah but then police would actually have to receive training on de-escalation. Can you imagine paying teachers more? Better to use the traveling drill instructor screaming “SHOOT OR DIE MAGGOT”.
but I don’t think a police officer should be allowed to remove their firearm from its holster until actual assault has occurred, unless non-police citizens are in danger.
This is the norm in many countries. For example anytime a policeman takes out a firearm, they need to file paperwork explaining the encounter, which is suprisingly (or not) a huuge deterrent.
I’m in the US and years ago a cop had to come by to put down a rabid raccoon that was wandering around. I jokingly asked him if he’d have a bunch of paperwork later for discharging his firearm (around houses to boot).
He did not seem to care, lol. I think he just gave me a “nah” or something.
The lack of discipline in American cops is hard to understand. Why does anyone put up with this?
The HBO Watchmen series has this as part of its premise.
This piece of shit couldn’t fight a 15 year old with a hoe? What a coward. One gut punch and the kid would have folded like a lawn chair.
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kids a buck fifty soaking wet, looks all of 5’5 from the pictures, and the family wasn’t helping. Did you kill all of those “15 year old thugs”? seems like we might have heard about you if you were as much of a coward as this cop
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If I encounter a professional boxer in a bad mood, I would shit my pants. If another professional boxer encounters a professional boxer in a bad mood, they would shrug it off and deal with whatever happens.
Cops get trained. Being prepared for dangerous situations is essentially the core of their fucking job. Apparently, that preparation seems to be often simply “if shit gets ugly, shoot the shit out of whatever frightens you”. Cops should be better at dealing with this than random citizens with a gun.
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wow, guys. Stop everything ! Apparently we live on planet Earth, and as you all know, that means we can’t improve things or point out abuse. Everyone go home ! nothing to see here. After all it’s planet earth
fucking dimwit
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And your safe space is pointing a gun at someones face.
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Wow, racism mixed with sexism and slutshaming. you can be really proud of yourself man. go get therapy.
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racism is racism, and sexism is also sexism. both are well defined, and both are in your comment. i don’t care what color you have, because you already showed your fucked up thought processes. go crawl back into your swastika-decorated hole.
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“by a wide variety of men”
I imagine your ability to definitely determine parentage, i’m assuming through observation and research, got you moved to somewhere your observational talents could be better employed ?
No point in wasting that kind of talent on the streets fighting the statistically high percentage of 15 year old bodybuilding thugs and their mothers.
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Poor kid must have been planting oak trees. The pig thought they were preventing a future massacre.
Let’s list all items that do not look like a gun during a police encounter. I’ll start:
Small puppy Couch Basketball Bucket full of fruit Ice
I can’t think of anymore at the moment. There’s bound to be one or two other items.
So for context my local PD dealt with a fine gentleman who attacked a security guard in his car dual wielding a hatchet and metal pipe. They spent several hours trying to talk him down before charging him with a shield and arresting him without much further ado. If you guessed he was white you guessed correctly.
complimenting your PD for disarming the situation peacefullycalling your PD racist for not shooting a white Person
Were you asleep for the last decade? We’ve seen over and over how people of color get treated by cops.
The Police System is heavily federalized. Which means they are all vastly dofferent from eachother.
His seems to be a pretty proffessional and good one.
PD as a broader category are racist because they will spend hours and risk gory death to avoid killing a mass shooter or a maniac with a hatchet but will shoot a black child on sight. My local PD’s efforts to save the lunatic are actually commendable and just. I’m using that as an obvious contrast to behavior in situations like this one. Their commendable behavior proves that its entirely possible and reasonable to preserve life even in harrowing situations. The tragedy is that other cops as a group don’t show the same bravery when a black child’s life is in the balance.
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Society failed this boy. More spending on medical research, and care could have prevented this event. But instead we spend way more money on killing more people in other countries. And the medical research could help those who serve in the military as well. But no, must cut those costs as much as posdible.
You forgot to mention how he was murdered.
I think everyone else had that covered.
Reagan closed down so many mental health hospitals specifically to make the streets more dangerous and help justify his militarization of the police.
ACAB
TLDR: What is the “5 foot garden tool”? That’s all I want to know!
So many details and blame thrown about, but suddenly vague on “gardening tool?” It was 5 feet of something. A rake? A scythe? A stick?
It sort of matters what is in your hands when you approach police; not that that’s ever a good idea. Even with a disability, he could be dangerous.
I’m astounded by The Guardian. How does an article explain is such detail the events of an altercation and aftermath yet space so terribly on such basic information?
Maybe don’t take a job of protecting and serving if a kid with a gardening tool is a bit too frightening for you to handle non-lethally.
Yeah, the kid didn’t have something dangerous like an acorn.
Ha! That was a hoot of a story back then. Not for the dude in the back of course.
That was a hoot of a story back then
Jesus christ, america
I have plenty of dangerous gardening tools in my shed.
The fact is, and point I was trying to make, we don’t know what the tool was therefore, we can’t draw conclusions about acceptable risk yet.
Protecting includes the family, the ones who called the police in the first place, from danger too.
Oh for Christ’s sake. What other countries does this happen in? Is the US so profoundly filled with dangerous gardening tools that they present a clear and present danger in the hands of a child facing armed and armored officers? I believe they have garden tools in places like England and New Zealand and such.
Maybe if we didn’t arm every cop like they’re supposed to take Baghdad and train them that their first job is coming home alive, huh?
Yo, no offence here, buut you people seem to forget all about the random Europe attacks with bladed instruments. Let alone all the attacks in the rest of the world that go unreported globally.
Melee weapon attacks are dangerous and often deadly. My country prohibits having anything that can be classified as a white weapon in your car due to how many fuckwits started hitting and stabbing each other in traffic.
You lot are really downplaying the risks involved just because cops were at the center of it.
No offense here either, but you seem to have fallen for the NRA-driven narrative that knife attacks are more common in Europe as if that balances out the enormous rate of gun crimes (including this one) in the US. Statistically, both the US and Europe have approximately the same rate of knife attacks - with some countries in Eastern Europe being a bit higher.
But let’s reason that through a bit more, just to be scientists. If an officer is willing to fire a gun at the literal drop of a hat, and that was somehow a deterrent to knife crimes, then we might hypothesize that the fact that in European countries officers use de-escalation first and engagement with pepper spray or tasers second would in fact see far higher rates of knife crimes. They don’t.
So logically speaking, I don’t think either the statistics nor the models support your hypothesis.
My “hypothesis” is simply that you’re downplaying the dangers of an attack with a melee weapon. They can be and often are deadly, regardless of how often they happen.
So should a cop respond with lethal force against a child because they have a garden tool, or has the rest of the planet been making a terrible mistake that only the Americans, with their off the charts levels of violence and incarceration, have figured out?
Do you think a militarized police force has a negative effect on violent crime and the rest of the world outside of places like Haiti and Somalia need to catch up with us?
I’m not here defending or jumping to conclusions of anyone or any economic, cultural, or racial statement.
All I want to know is what the damn tool was!
Dude it literally doesn’t fucking matter. Police in other countries disarm people wielding knives on a regular basis, without fucking killing them.
You are siding with an incompetent, oppressive and racist organization under the guise of rationality. Please stop. Cops are not your friends. They do not protect you. They are state sponsored bullies.
A couple years ago I would have understood where you’re coming from and possibly even agreed with you. But the more I learn about the history of police and how utterly ineffective they are the more I agree with radical leftist beliefs. No matter how much you want to believe we live in a functioning society, with a functioning police force, it just isn’t reality. The police have a long and violent history of brutalizing and murdering the weakest and most vulnerable people in our society. Fuck the police.
The “if you’re not with me, you’re against me” argument is BS and a tool of the ignorant. I’m not your enemy because I refuse to debate a position I never addressed in the first place. I was talking about a garden tool, nothing else. You want to goad me into an argument I simply won’t have.
Furthermore, you have no business telling me who my friends are. I have, in fact, had some very positive experiences with police in the past. I don’t share your rational and I am, as an individual, entirely entitled to my first hand, fact-based opinion even if it doesn’t reflect yours.
You’re asking for information that is simply irrelevant, police should and can disarm people wielding melee weapons. Maybe you genuinely believe you are asking an important question, but asking questions like “but what did he do to deserve it” is a common bad faith argument used to muddy the waters and make the situation appear more ambiguous than it truly is. Hence, no one in this thread wants to fucking answer your question. You are the one attempting to goad people into engaging in an argument we simply won’t have.
I too have had positive experiences with cops, this proves absolutely nothing. You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to think society would be better off if people like you had a more critical opinion of an organization that does pretty much anything other than serve and protect.
What a crap take. You know how many people young and old have been in a foreign country with a majority of the populace looking to kill them, have a thing called ROE Rules Of Engagement to guide when they should shoot to kill. Many time people with weapons, lethal weapons in their hand and those people would have to gauge whether or not they were a threat.
All police should have to adhere to a common ROE when engaging with the America/non American populace. If soldiers had to do it in a country where they were not welcome it should be a no brainier that the people sworn to “protect and serve” should have to do this bare minimum in our own country.
You did read the article including the part he was attacking his sister possibly with the garden tool or “piece of glass” while his other family was avoiding him and calling the cops? What is your threat assessment of that?
Anyways…
I don’t know if the shooting was justified or not, and I’ve never made such statement and don’t have an opinion one way or the other.
My post, if you read it again, is about The Guardians lack of information about the freaking tool.
That’s all I want to know. What is the tool? JFC people.
Do you think that his family who called the cops wanted the cops to murder him?
Heard you the first time. Just leave it there then? Perhaps they hadn’t been given that information yet.
That’s the beauty of it, police don’t have to protect and serve in America. Courts made sure of that. Don’t need to know the laws they’re enforcing either. Just run an obstacle course and take a 40 hr course on killology - the idea that policing is the most dangerous job on the planet and everyone is trying to kill you at all times- and presto, they give you a gun, body armor, and protection from the legal and financial repercussions of your actions.
Plus, there’s lots of networking opportunities with local white supremacist and christofascist organizations.
Too bad he wasn’t a big white man with a knife! Then the cops would have tried to talk him down!
I hear what you’re saying, and black people are targeted disproportionally for these sorts of extra judicial killings, but there are plenty of videos of white people being executed by cops and also facing the same cushy “repercussions”.
If minorities aren’t safe then nobody is safe.
Aren’t police carrying non-lethal stuff like tasers and trained in deescalation techniques that could be used to subdue someone without shooting them?
Edit: not ‘desecration’, although maybe they are
Some do carry batons, pepper spray, or tasers. All carry guns.
Some might be trained in deescalation. Some might be trained in “killology”: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html
Desecration is definitely not the right word but I’m having trouble inferring the one you meant to use. De-escalation perhaps?
Lol, yes!
FYI, tazers aren’t “non-lethal.”
They are less lethal, but like far less lethal.
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Good point. My bad. Corrected.
The description of the video describes it as such.
What the hell? Maybe I didn’t expand the article or something when I went back to check.
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I think it might be a clipper for branches hard to reach.
Whatever happened to tasers? I guess it’s not that convenient for the police to have someone capable of suing back, makes one wonder how many cases aren’t able to get the attention this kid is.
The kid’s 15!! a Taser will endanger the cop!! Lord have mercy on this poor cop, good thing there wasn’t an acorn or someone else might have died
Tasers are also quite risky.
What they should have is some proper martial arts training so they can deal with most problems in closer encounters. Fucking shit, they have better equipment and bigger numbers. There should be zero reason to pull a gun unless the other party also has one.
Then maybe escalate to tasers if the other party has a knife and seems to actually starting to attack. If they are just standing there (in a defensive stance or whatever), they should still not be tasered.
Having someone with mental health training would have been more appropriate. This kid was autistic and needed to be calmed down by someone who knows how to de-escalate a situation with an autistic person.
Instead he got a cop who only knows how to shoot people.
To a hammer every problem is a nail.
I saw a video from the UK where a guy charged a cop with a knife and the cop just smacked it out of his hand with a baton and put him in handcuffs. Police in the UK only shoot two or three people each year, and the per capita injuries to the police are lower, seems like a better system.
Any decent martial arts instructor will tell you that if someone has a weapon, your best bet is to run. You can be a master of any art; if your opponent has a knife, you will get cut, or stabbed. It’s almost impossible to disarm an aggressive attacker who has a knife without getting cut; unless you get lucky, it usually becomes a struggle to control the knife, and the person holding the handle gets cut up far less. Your martial arts training may allow you to eventually dominate the situation, disarm your attacker, and defeat your opponent – but you’re still going to get cut up in the process. If they have a gun, then all your training for is give you a slight chance of not getting shot, maybe, if everything goes perfectly. The only time things go like in the movies is in the movies. And cops aren’t going to be martial arts masters; the best we could hope for for most of them is some basic submission technique, like the shit that murdered George Floyd.
Yes: cops should be getting focused time in de-escalation, but expecting cops to grapple with people, when they have no idea what weapons the person may have concealed in their bodies, or to expect them to perform some Steven Segal weapon disarming is unrealistic.
I agree with you, though; guns are not the answer, and I’m not sure I believe cops should even be armed - although, this is there US, and about 2% of the population goes around daily armed.
The kid had a stick, for Pete’s sake
Random martial arts in plain cloths against a knife… yeah, bad. But cops have equipment and numbers. They don’t have to do this alone, they can have shields in their car, they can wear tonfas, etc.
If the primary goal was to deal with attackers non-lethally, I am sure that would be possible. At least to a certain degree.
It’s far less dangerous than a gun and ideal for melee opponents because cops can still maintain a certain amount of range. You didn’t read the article, did you? The kid was approaching fast charging with the sharp end of a gardening tool over his head while being told to back off, I think there is no question that he was suffering a manic episode. There were a number of ways to deal with the situation, but before reaching for the gun they could have reached for the taser. Tasers are quite risky, yes, but less so than shooting several bullets in a residential zone at someone.
The comment I answered to was quite generic. If tasers get sold as safer guns, they will also be over-used.
That’s why I explicitly told about escalations and the taser was still part of that escalation chain. And yes, in this particular case, a taser could have been a good approach. Although cops with shield and tonfas might have done the job as well. But to be fair: I don’t expect cops to pull out a shield everytime they leave their car and I don’t think they anticipated such a quick escalation here. If a tonfa alone (by two cops, however) would have done the trick … hard to say. Against a knife: yes. Against that large-ass gardening tool … maybe not.
So yes: in this case, a taser would have been good. In general: I would still prefer first going with far far less risky approaches.
So basically, in the case the thread is about, a taser or insert less risky option here would have been good, got it.
In general anything less than killing or maiming someone should be the utmost priority.
But as I said: also a taser can kill and also tackling someone and pinning them to the ground can. So I would put less focus on the methods and more on the intention. Cops should neither have to act out of fear (that’s what training is for) nor out of pleasure. And some cops just seem to get off on being in control. If cops generally would want the best not just for themselves and other civilians but also for the perpetrators, a lot of the problems would solve themself.
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