• SevenOfWine@startrek.website
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    9 months ago

    It’s at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all, which will help Trump get elected.

    Look at the people pushing the ‘genocide Joe’ thing. Invariably they’re anti-NATO and make excuses for Iran, Syria and Russia. Not that they’re doing it deliberately, but plenty seem to have bought the propaganda and are acting like useful idiots by spreading it.

    • Nudding@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Genocide Joe needs to be held accountable for sending weapons to a country engaged in genocide. That’s not propaganda, that’s international law.

        • Nudding@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It’s fine I guess, I’m not a Russian or Chinese shill lmao. I guess I was technically a social democrat, then I thought humanity would be okay in small tribal communes, but now I think humanity should go extinct in order to save the remaining animals we haven’t already driven to extinction. For sciences sake.

          • Asafum@feddit.nl
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            9 months ago

            So you do realize that’s worse than Hitler right? Your “noble cause” requires humanity to be exterminated, Hitler just wanted a “perfect race” of humans. Even if it’s not by your hand or directed by you, you want the elimination of the entire human species.

            There are some days where I’m in that camp too lol

            • Nudding@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Yeah I don’t think it should be an extermination, I know there are others like me called the voluntary extinction movement or something. I think intelligent people can see the writing on the wall that we’ve passed an important climate tipping point in 2023, I’m lucky I didn’t already have kids, but I’m getting a vasectomy.

              Humanity has driven 70% of all species to extinction in the 250,000 years we’ve been around. 150 species a day. How many megafauna did we permanently erase before we even developed the written word? I think if we burn ourselves out before we spread to other planets or solar systems, said places are lucky.

              • GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website
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                9 months ago

                That’s the easy way out. Please stick around and help the rest of us try to steer humanity in the right direction. Help the moral arc of the universe bend a little faster. It’s hard work, and most of us won’t see much of a return. But long-term, let’s hope that humanity can.

                To clarify: I’m a biologist. The perspective you’ve taken is basically “Noble Savage” but for animals. Animals are pushed to extinction all the time. Yes, we’re incredibly good at it, and we’re good at coming up with highfalutin reasons for killing things, but look at chimps, ants, dolphins…nature is brutal. It sucks to be most animals. Say a habitat changes, and a species “needs” to move into an adjacent similar habitat that’s already occupied by one or more species exploiting those resources? Extinction of something is pretty likely. That’s all very much an oversimplification, of course, but this is a lemmy comment.

                https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111310 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-it-comes-waging-war-ants-humans-have-lot-common-180972169/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

                The hope I have is our intelligence. The fact that you recognize this existential threat is more than a badger is capable of.

                • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  If we found an organism that drives 150 species extinct a day what would we do with it? Put aside your human exceptionalism for a second and think about it.

                  • GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website
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                    9 months ago

                    That’s entirely my point though: we can’t reason with a deadly virus, but we can with most humans. Or at least some humans. OK maybe a few. The point is, I don’t think it’s logical to throw in the towel.

                    That isn’t human exceptionalism in my view, either: because I don’t believe we’re inherently special animals when it comes to how we treat the environment. My point is that most animals inherently exploit resources, and drive others to extinction. We just managed to make guns and power tools and propaganda. Once humans are gone, we have no reason to think that any species that manages to start some technologically advanced civilization will be any better. So either we eradicate all biological life to ensure that it doesn’t eradicate biological life…or we try to improve humanity, because despite things, we can often be reasoned with. Humanity has gotten better, even though it hasn’t improved enough, when looking at human civilization over the last few thousand years. That’s my point: not that we don’t deserve calamity, but that we can - if we fight hard enough - try to steer our own species toward a better future for everyone.

                    Who knows though, maybe if humanity is gone the bonobos will rise up to take our place. They’re pretty chill, all things considered.

    • Sybil@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Its at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all

      you’re making this up

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It’s at least in part Russian propaganda.

      But you’ll use that as the excuse every time someone says they won’t be voting for Biden right?

      The problem you run into with this excuse is regardless of where the ideas are coming from or who is amplifying them you and many others are clearly concerned about the upcoming election. Biden won the 2020 general election so that means you’re worried there are people who voted for Biden in the 2020 general election and won’t vote for him in 2024. If they’re leftists or progressives that means staying home, voting 3rd party or writing in.

      So here’s a crazy idea: find a compromise. Leftists and progressives have raised multiple reasons they are frustrated or even angry at Biden. Why not yield to some of those objections? Frankly, the fact that discussions about giving progressive and leftist voters what they want in order to gain votes get so heavily down voted feels like the real PsyOP. Especially when the people downvoting simultaneously talk about the wonders of democracy and compromise. Here’s just a few ideas Biden could do today:

      1. Biden has been providing Israel weapons without congressional approval. That means he could stop. Today. Do that.
      2. Biden blocked the rail strike by forcing a contract unions had voted against down their throat. That contract expires at the end of this year meaning they could strike again in 2025. Biden could promise to veto any attempts to block a rail strike in his next term.
      3. Biden forced federal workers back to the office. He could reverse that.
      4. Biden could publicly shame Powell and Yellen for attacking American worker wages.

      It’s hard to take people seriously when they talk about how important democracy is but sneer at the very idea of sacrificing any policy positions in order to court voters sitting to the left of Biden.

      • stinerman [Ohio]@midwest.social
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        9 months ago

        Without taking a position on what you’re saying, do you think it’s at all possible that making those choices could lose more voters than they’d gain? I honestly don’t know, but changing a position on any issue runs the risk of losing votes as well.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          do you think it’s at all possible that making those choices could lose more voters than they’d gain?

          Yes. You take a risk either way.

    • DrPop@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Anytime someone goes to name calling I assume they are a bad actor. We can have a serious discussion on the matter without devolving into name calling so I just assume they are trying to sew discord more than anything else.