Are people on the left saying this?
The 2 things I’ve really not liked about biden is he
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Continued trump era boarder policies significantly harming refugees.
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Has doggedly supported israel in their current genocide campaign.
Other wise his admin has ranged from pretty good to business as usual. 1000% better than trump, but also with some glaring problems.
2 is huge, but you forgot that he busted the railroad union which directly led to ohio burning down
I’m no fan of Biden (though I did and will vote for him) but that’s not what happened. He did not bust the unions, the 12 unions still exist. He broke a strike, which is the intended purpose of the Railway Labor Act of 1926.
The law he put before congress to force a resolution to the three year negotiation deadlock would have guaranteed the workers 7 days of sick leave per year (they wanted 15). It passed the House but the Senate knocked it down to 1 day, with a 14% immediate pay increase and an additional 25% over the next five years.
Biden continued negotiate for the unions to get the sick days. They don’t all have them yet, but at this point 61% of the workers do have 4 short notice paid sick days with the option to trade three personal days for an additional 3 short notice sick days. Negotiations are still happening, the Biden administration is still part of them.
The Ohio derailment disaster was not a result of worker error (or lack of sick days) but lack of maintenance regulations, which was not something that was being negotiated at that time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute
Beau of the Fifth Column, Let’s Talk About Biden, the Rails and Sick days… Youtube link
I just thought union busting was something of a proud American tradition.
It’s true, we bust unions like their kneecaps were full of oil.
2 is kinda irrelevant in the context of the election though. If you think Biden supports them too much wait until you see the alternative. Trump doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy to say “Palestinians need our help”. He strikes me as the guy who’ll say “See? This is why I’m writing a new Muslim ban”
Continued trump era boarder policies significantly harming refugees.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t his Administration forced to continue those by SCotUS?
Has doggedly supported israel in their current genocide campaign.
Agree, but that looks like it’s starting to turn as well.
Agree, but that looks like it’s starting to turn as well
Honest question, where have you seen this?
All I’ve seen is talk about possibly maybe telling them to stop genociding. Other than that it’s business as usual. The whole siding with Israel at the ICJ trial isn’t a great look
scotus has no enforcement arm.
I think the DNC finally discovered Lemmy. There’s been a huge uptick of VBNMW and “how dare anyone question Biden” posts. Voters can be critical of Biden and the Dems and still vote for them to “stop Trump”. Even though Trump is merely a symptom of the crappy system we have.
Edit: also, calling the far left nut jobs isn’t going to win any of them over.
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If you want leftists to vote for dems, despite dems pissing on leftists at every possible chance and yelling at leftists to fall in line, I’ll show you how.
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Point out that voting will never, ever, ever move the democrat party to the left. You cannot vote the party harder to the left.
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Point out that Republicans are going to remain fascists.
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Point out that voting third party is a spoiler vote and will result in fascists winning.
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Point out that the actual way to move to the left is to unionize and organize at the grassroots level, to apply bottom-up pressure on the top.
The answer is not to pretend that Biden is anything other than a Neoliberal Capitalist. Leftists will correctly point out that Biden is still a lukewarm neoliberal maintaining the status quo, and feel further alienated by being told they should love him anyways. That just encourages voter apathy.
Voting will move the party left, if people vote for that. But they don’t because leftists are a tiny, fringe political minority. That’s why Biden is in office and not Bernie.
Can’t wait to prove you wrong at the democratic primary oh wait shit we’re not really doing one of those for some reason
LOL. we already had one. Bernie lost… twice I might add. I hope another person like Bernie runs after Biden’s, or Trump’s :(, 2nd term because even Bernie himself helped talk about things Democrats didn’t talk about (healthcare for all for instance).
You are missing the entire point…
You’re doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing while accepting the 1%'s bullshit argument that there is literally no hope of actual change.
Next 4 years, Next 4 years, Next 4 years, almost there guys don’t worry about it.
Picking the better of 2 evils is not democracy.
From your(and my) perspective it’s the better of two evils, there are plenty of average democrats that chose Biden on the merits.
I’ve literally never met anyone in real life who actually supports Biden, I’m not saying they don’t exist, just that he doesn’t exactly get people excited to vote, it’s literally just “not Trump”
Yet he got more votes than Bernie. So people definitely like Biden more.
Lol there is hope for change. 4 and 8 years ago, Bernie could have been a candidate. There wasn’t enough people that voted for him in either election, so Hilary and Biden took it. Now, you do need to wait 4 years because Biden is the incumbent, who historically have a good chance at winning. In 4 years, if people want progressive candidate, vote canvas and donate. If not enough people do, then that obviously means not enough people want s progressive candidate.
Bernie
lostwon then got told to eat a dick, and then his voters were told to eat a dick in court.Then democrats blamed those voters for not voting dem after telling them all to fuck the fuck off.
Citation needed
What do you think would happen that would prove me wrong? A democratic primary is a great way to increase the chances of a Republican victory.
Running Biden is a great way to have a trump victory
Or it will make it worse. Its not 1976.
I guess we’ll see. But pretty much everyone agrees that not undermining the unity of the Democratic party in one of the most divisive elections in American history as facism is knocking at the door, is a good idea.
Highlighting the diversity and love for democracy is better. More authority behavior is not what we need.
It’s not more authoritarian behaviour, it’s a very standard precedent that people are arbitrarily getting annoyed about this election cycle. Ideally maybe there would be a democratic primary, but the least authoritarian thing to do right now is keep Trump out of office.
“Let’s do something that we’ve not done since the 80’s (and was disastrous for us) & will greatly increase our chances of a Fascist USA!”
Voting will not move the party left. The only reason the dems are in power at all, is because the vast amounts of wealth of Capitalists support them. There’s no bottom-up pressure. Even if Bernie was in office, he’d have to fight tooth and nail with the democrats to get things done, not just the Republicans.
We don’t really know what it would be like to have Bernie in office, because he wasn’t popular enough to get there. But I could imagine it would be hard for him, yes, because no one wants him to be President.
There is bottom up pressure. Clearly. Self-evidently. There could be more if people who don’t want the Republicans in power actually made any kind of effort politically, rather than complained on Lemmy about unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that a cabal of spooky capitalists subvert the Democratic process so your vote doesn’t matter.
The Dems are in power because they won the election, solely because more people voted for them than the Republicans. If you VOTE, you effect change.
People wanted Bernie, Biden was voted for during the primaries in states that went to Trump anyways. The DNC does not want Bernie, so even if he made it to the presidency he would not be able to enact change. Who you can vote for is picked by the wealthy who influence the media and government, Capitalists.
It is absolutely not an unsubstantiated conspiracy, it’s a well-known and documented fact. Pretending that the democratic process within America is not hand-picked and chosen by large corporations and Capitalists is naive and unsubstantiated.
Some people wanted Bernie, most didn’t. That’s why he didn’t win. You have no idea what the DNC wants. The DNC has no authority to try and sabotage a Sanders presidency, that’s a wild thing to say. There were some emails 7 years ago and those people resigned. They’re not going to rig it. Or ignore the vote.
If who you can vote for IS decided by the Evil Capitalists, how did Sanders get onto the ballot, then get millions of votes in 2016 & 2020? How did he run a campaign without a superpac, beating out millionaires with massive campaign funds?
I guess it’s cool if you think politics doesn’t matter because it’s all a conspiracy, it just means your political beliefs have zero chance of getting anywhere.
Here is a good article on the hurdles Bernie had put in his way by the DNC.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201101090855/https://berniewouldhavelost.com/
Which brings us to the goal for this essay: To allow someone with one hour and no background in polling or statistics to come away with an intimate understanding of the real story behind the 2020 Democratic Primary. If you are someone with even a kernel of doubt about the legitimacy of the results, this is, without hyperbole, the most important document you will ever read.
You might as well be linking me to the Q board on 8chan. This guy is huffing litres of copium.
That’s actually ahistorical, Bernie was fucked over in 2016 and was beating Hillary until superdelagates got involved. In 2020, Bernie beat Biden in most states that Biden beat Trump in, Biden only picked up steam when it came to red state primaries. The people want Bernie.
Did Bernie win, though? No. Again, superdelegates and careful design of the electoral process prevents anyone from actually rocking the boat.
Politics absolutely matters, elections at the federal level are loss prevention, and at the local level you can genuinely get Socialists into office. However, meaningful political change occurs when there’s grassroots momentum, like the Civil Rights Movement and Black Panthers. Unionization is one of the best ways to force political change.
Please, feel free to continue mouthing off and putting words in my mouth, you can continue being a radlib and supporting the status quo like your life depends on it, unfortunately I’m not privledged enough to not advocate for meaningful change.
Ok I will continue ‘mouthing off’.
Clinton won the popular vote. Bernie would have had to get nearly ALL the superdelegates to vote against the popular vote to win. All they did was cement Clinton’s victory. His campaign also raised and spent more money.
I don’t know where your reading of 2016 has come from. Is this just copium that Bernie didn’t win? which part of the less votes from more money is the capitalist conspiracy?
And again, Biden beat Bernie even harder than Clinton did. People vote for who they want to be president. America doesn’t want Bernie to be President.
And look at that, the popularity of Bernie has moved the Democrats further left.
This attitude right here?
Exactly why the orange won.
The MIC picks, not us.
END THE MIC
I have been to every size of town and city all over the US and it doesn’t appear leftists a fringe minority. The people that accurately labels themselves as a leftist is probably a minority, but many many people are adherents of left wing views, but with no accessible way to push or vote for their ideals. People will support socialist policies without realizing as well, like guaranteeing healthcare or housing for all. People’s ideas of politics are all over the place in the US.
People when polled like the idea of healthcare and housing for all, but support drops off rapidly when you start getting into the weeds of polling actual policy. At the end of the day, coherent ‘leftists’ i.e. socialist adjacent people are a small fraction of the population, and a small fraction of those people would ever go further than larping or complaining on Lemmy.
The fact is there is next to zero political will for true left wing views to enter the stage, and has been shown repeatedly in the multiple resounding defeats candidates like Bernie have suffered, who isn’t even particularly radical. It’s going to be a long time and a lot of work to get a seat at the table for anything like that, and basically no one is putting that work in productively.
The other option some leftists like the idea of is revolution, but if they can’t leave their bedrooms to participate at the basic level in this system, there is no chance they’ll put the work in to overthrow it.
Im not American but thinking about getting my citizenship before 2032ish (so out of this voting cycle and maybe the next) actually, the more I hear about voting for a third party is a waste, the more tempting it is. Not saying that because I’m trying to be an edge lord, or a trump supporter, or whatever else I’m sure someone will accuse me of - but because if your policy dept is so out of ideas that all you have is “vote for us or else… …you… will have voted for someone else. And they might be bad. Neener neener” then surely anything except the Biden/Trump dichotomy has got to be worth a try?
Then to top it all that my vote won’t make a difference, to either party, it’s just pro forma so we can flip between blue Reagan and red Reagan every 8 years like normal… like - how is that not an invitation to want to fuck the system and look at third parties?
If there was no point in voting for a third party because the I didn’t have to hold my nose because Democrats smelled good then you’d have no argument from me.
Voting for third party presently is voting for a spearhead with no spear. There’s no mass movement for it, thus no pressure to actually stand up to the massive DNC or GOP. That’s why leftists need to touch grass and organize, so that third party can be viable.
Getting the order wrong means more GOP fascism in office, getting the order right means an actual third party becomes viable.
Describing Biden as Pro-Regan is insane, or even just the slightly less bad version of Trump is. Biden has been amazing.
it was a tongue-in-cheek jab at neo liberalism, not intended as a deep dive forensic analysis of which predecessor most closely correlates to each president.
The only way to move the party to the left is to get more involved. Whining that they aren’t reaching out won’t achieve anything. A party is made up of people. Want the party to move more left and reach out further left? Be one of those people in the party and do it yourself, don’t expect others to do it for you.
No, a party is an interest group. Both major US parties act in the interest of the bourgeoisie and the US voting system is designed to make it hard to contend that. Until you guys discover representational voting on a national level, the democracy will falter.
The only way to move the party to the left is to get more involved. Whining that they aren’t reaching out won’t achieve anything. A party is made up of people. Want the party to move more left and reach out further left? Be one of those people in the party and do it yourself, don’t expect others to do it for you.
Yep. And work outside of it.
But mostly be involved and become a leader in your community. Find ways to engage with people, identify their needs, and address them.
People love making this argument until you actually show up and get bullied for not showing up sooner then bullied for having different priorities than the herd then bullied for not supporting the milquetoast candidate at the moment.
Dems are just as faschie, even at the local level. You can’t move people left who are just as religious about their mid right position as christofascists are theirs.
So sad to see Lemmy is downvoting something like this. Really shows how clueless even the most politically opinionated are.
For such a politically active platform, people here don’t seem to really understand how people work in politics. It’s not as simple as “come up with the right policy and people will vote for it”. The vast majority of voters are not paying that much attention and are easily misled. A good example is California. One of the most liberal states, and they have a direct democracy system for amending the state constitution. Should be a slam dunk for leftist right? Nope, couldn’t be farther from the truth. Corporations pull every dirty trick in the book and spend billions of dollars spreading misinformation and pulling every legal trick in the book to get their will through, and as a result voters, not representatives, but voters, vote for props that go directly against their interests because they’ve been lied to and fell for it. Every election year there’s a bunch of horrible things on the ballot and it’s a nail biter seeing if the voters fell for it. Getting the right things passed, and also getting voters to actually go for it is nowhere as simple as people here act like it is, and people here don’t even provide any solutions, they just want to meme and complain while sitting on their asses instead of getting engaged and getting others engaged.
The wealthy DNC donors pick and choose who makes up the party at the federal level. You may get an upset local win against a Neoliberal dem, but the party is the way it is by design.
Leftists won’t vote for dems. Your point is invalid.
I’m voting for him as an avowed leftist.
Besides impeding fascism, his reforms on student loans mean I’ll be debt-free with $0 payments in 10 years. That is a material improvement of my life that I am infinitely grateful for.
But I still think he’s a piece of shit for aiding and abetting a genocide and would vote for another candidate if I meaningfully could.
Politics is nuanced. 🤷
I have similar feelings. My student loans will be way easier to pay off with the new SAVE repayment plan and the IRA should help cover some well needed window replacements, and the very well needed furnace and air conditioner replacement. At a larger scale some of the bills he passed are greatly expanding rail and renewable energy both of which I greatly love to see. There’s a couple of new rail corridorsthat will connect me to friends and make it possible to go to places I want to go to by rail instead of driving so I’m very excited to have those options opening up in 10-15 years
I didn’t get the free universal 3k schooling for my kids, nor the permanent expanded child tax credit. I didn’t get my student loan forgiveness (which at least was down to republican fuckery since the law was pretty clear in allowing it) and our tax dollars are going to a yet another oppressive regime in the middle east with the bonus of killing of thousands of kids
Ultimately I’m not thrilled but it’s far more than I got under a Republican government and it’s far more than I actually expected under Biden
If a particular leftist isn’t rational enough to recognize the important of impeding the progress of fascism, at any level possible, its a vote that can probably be missed.
If you have the power to impeded fascism in any way, and you choose not to do so, I’m don’t believe you are a leftist.
In 2016, Bernie was shafted in the primary to protect capitalistic interests. When challenged in court, the DNC won under the premise that they are a private organization that can do what they want and votes don’t mean shit.
In 2024, we’re watching Biden sidestep Congress to fund genocide in Palestine.
Democrats are fascists, putting a pride pin in their cap doesn’t change that.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Fascism is not just people supporting things you don’t like.
far right
Certainly mid right
authoritarian
Try being left of Biden in a room full of Democrats.
ultranationalist
See above, Dems are resistant to any meaningful change because they believe USA #1. They wave their little equality flag but suggest overhauling a US system and see how quick they become conservative.
centralized autocracy, militarism
Even after a Trump presidency, we can’t reign in executive privilege because Dems are just as reliant on it. See: Biden sidestepping Congress to fund Israel, also…gestures broadly at America for militarism
forcible suppression of opposition
3rd parties have met requirements to be included on ballots and in debates before, dems were just as quick as Repubs to move those goalposts everytime they’re met. Also, 2016 - Bernie won the primary, no he didn’t shut up also we’ll go to court to show our voters they don’t mean shit
belief in a natural social hierarchy
I mean, that’s just capitalism and Dems are all in on defending that at all costs (See above)
subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race
Go to any thread discussing politics or Democratic function IRL and mention any political/social interest other than “Not Trump” or whatever the DNC flavor of the day is and watch how quickly you get told you’re a stupid baby. (Case in point, your reply - “You don’t have real concerns you just think fascism is anything you don’t like nyahhh”)
strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Again, capitalism, but politically - Any primary winner would have been rejected for Hillary in 2016 because they just owed her one, and here we are doubling down on Biden for a second term at 81 after 50 years in politics instead of, well, anybody else at all no matter how many people tell them how weak that play is.
Democracy is not shutting out any people supporting things you don’t like.
forcible suppression of opposition
I agree. Its incredibly tough and an almost impossible task.
We have the choice of diet fascism, or the full blown thing.
We can buy some time if we stick with diet fascism. The only real solution is to get involved in the political process and try and change things. I think we’re in a highly ‘activated’ community, so I’m sure, along with others, I’m not the only politically involved person here. I think beyond physical training, doing your best to set yourself up to be independent from the requirements of the social system, and engaging in the political process, there isn’t much more I would promote doing. But those are also all very important things, especially becoming involved in the political process.
You can run as an independent. Find a rural district. Become the dog catcher (or hell, become the sheriff).
Thanks for illustrating my point.
Give me a leftist anti-fascist candidate and I’ll vote for him. shrug “Leftists don’t want to vote for fascists OR fascists waving a pride flag so they don’t” isn’t the hot take you think it is. Every year, democrats lose voters because they refuse to go any further left than mid-right to placate the donor class and every year y’all go on these tirades about how y’all don’t need leftists anyway (as you simultaneously) blame us for Republican wins, usually in the same post.)
If leftist votes are so critical it’d probably be a good idea to stop actively pissing on them, huh?
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I’m sorry, how is this different from a Trump speech, exactly? Dehumanization, outright falsehoods, false generalizations, personal insults, de-legitimization, etc.
Democrats are fascist, and the US isn’t a democracy. It’s a right wing Corporatocracy and we’re in such late stage capitalism everyone’s taken their hoods off and saying the quiet part out loud.
See ya after the downfall, bruddaman
voting for fascist Democrats doesn’t impede fascism. implying that voting for evil people is rational, and therefore refusing to vote for evil people is irrational, is pure ad hominem.
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But they will still call themselves leftists, which muddies the water and makes it impossible to actually tell.
What is a leftist to you though? I’m not arguing for this position, but there are different beliefs in electoralism, there are leftists who believe legitimazing the system through voting just cements the dominant power further. By abstaining from voting or letting someone unpopular be elected it weakens the state structure which some see as a more efficient path to the removal of the main class division.
I’m a leftist and I vote for dems, at least at the federal level or if a republican actually stands a chance of winning, and it isn’t a leftist vs an incumbent dem.
Your point is invalid.
Source? You fade
You’re wrong of course.
Or gatekeeping, which would be pathetic.
Many of us do, sometimes.
Only under perfect circumstances, and that almost never happens.
You can also lobby your local government. Look them up, book a 30 minute appointment, dress the part show up and make your pitch. Sure it will barely bump the needle but if normies start doing this it can start to nudge that needle a little
Even just calling your local politicians can nudge that needle.
Sooo many people think electoralism is is just casting your vote every 4 years when it’s necessary to vote twice a year and stay in contact with your politicians.
I started going to school board meetings recently and have had a few people shocked at me just being a dude with a young child in, the district showing up to see how things run, sure it’s boring as hell but I had established a report with one of the members(long story) so him seeing me at the meeting was encouraging to him.
Man, I need to start attending my local school board meetings. My kids’ll be starting soon and it would be a good way to get a feel for the direction of things. I was a student senate nerd in college so I have a feeling I’ll be weirdly engrossed in the whole thing.
Acting like the DNC would ever move to the left (when their “left-totally-not-fascism” is bringing in that sweet sweet oil $$$$$)?
I genuinely do not see a day where enough of the boomers are out of office to fix this shit.
3rd party is how we end the MIC
Dont fall for the third Party rethoric.
Just swallow your pride and vote for something that does NOT help the fascists win.
Which is Biden.
🥾 😛
I said the dems will never move to the left via electoralism, and without bottom up pressure, third party is a spearhead with no spear. You need to build up grassroots pressure from the bottom up for third party to ever be viable.
Mathematically, 3rd parties cannot work in the USA until we get rid of FPtP voting. The GOP outlaws other voting methods where they can. See Florida & Tennessee.
3rd Parties also don’t seem to want to put in the work required at lower levels of governance to be taken seriously.
If you could prove Duverger’s Law wrong, you’d be famous, but you can’t, so you’re just shouting into the ether instead.
Voting is a chess move, not a love letter.
That just encourages voter apathy.
The fact that you can say all of that yet still come back to electoral politics as anything other than a charade and a farce is mind boggling…
Playing within the limited rules set by those in power to give the little people the illusion of choice is NEVER going to change anything of any substance.
I don’t think you read my whole point. Voting won’t bring positive change, just prevent negative change. Positive change comes from actually touching grass and unionizing, organizing, and building up bottom-up movements.
Of course you can vote a party harder to the left. You just can’t be lazy about it. So many you people sit there and wait until a presidential election and then complain. That’s not what you do you have to start early. You have to find candidates and nurture them you have to vote in primaries you have to work on elections. You want change you got to make the change. Most leftists don’t do that. They’d rather sit back and wait.
You cannot vote a party to the left. I do vote, especially for leftist candidates in local elections, but the DNC exists as it does because of large, wealthy Capitalists influencing it via donations, same as the GOP. Even if Bernie won, which I would have loved, he would have had to fight tooth and nail against the Democrats to get anything done.
The system is designed to prevent radical change.
So theoretically people on the left have done this work and have fielded Marianne Williamson, Dean Phillips, and (at one time) Kennedy. What happens when states simply don’t hold primaries?
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“saved democracy in Europe”? i’d argue democracy works better here than in the US of A, and certainly not due to any US president
secured the border
What does that mean though. Concentration camps for undocumented People? Kids in cages? You think that’s a good thing? People are dying in US camps, and you’re presenting that as a ‘haha gotcha liberals they DO kill migrants’
Fuck that.
Also genocide. Never forget that Biden is aiding and abetting a genocide. Don’t fucking look away because he’s your guy, motherfuckers
There’s plenty to complain about, but the significant thing is that every one of those things that are complained about are specifically as bad or worse with his opposition. It would be different if any of it were “Biden aids Israel who is committing genocide, but Trump is against aid to Israel!” or “Biden keeps kids in cages at the border, but Trump would get the border handled more humanely!” Trump unequivocally supports Israel curb-stomping Palestine, and Trump made a lot of the changes that put kids in cages, and his rhetoric suggests he only plans on hitting immigrants harder.
But I get it, there is plenty to complain about with Biden, not least of which is aiding genocide. The meme, though, is concerning the argument that Biden has done nothing while in office, which is clearly not true.
Yup. He has put more immigrants behind bars in makeshift concentration camps than any other president. Inspirational stuff. And supporting genocide? Good old Amerikkkan values right there, some real 20th century stuff from this decrepit ghoul.
‘But the other side is worse’
I’m fully aware that the other side is basically Trump, and Trump will be the end of democracy. A nightmare for everyone but a very select few. A totalitarian moron driven by the worst US politics has to offer. It will be the end of civil liberties.
But don’t let Biden slither away with any of the shit he’s pulling.
Is unemployment actually down, or is this just like number fudging from folks who work 3 part time jobs?
There’s a LOT more homeless people than I remember ever seeing before.
Unemployment is measured as people who are eligible and looking for work but not employed. People who have left the workforce for reasons other than getting laid off/fired (like quitting to take care of a sick family member) or people who have given up looking for work are not counted, even if they want a job. It’s measured by a CPS survey of 60,000 households, and I doubt it includes homeless people (or anyone without a permanent address).
I’ve heard the opposition party claim the unemployment is under-counted during the Obama, Trump, and Biden years by excluding job seekers who have given up on finding employment. That’s probably true, but if it is it has probably been pretty consistently under-counted for decades by both parties.
People that give up are no longer “unemployed”, which is why they aren’t counted. They wouldn’t even count in the labor force either, which is the sum of unemployed and employed people.
Right, and the argument that many Republicans made during the Obama years and many Democrats made during the Trump years is that they should count in the labor force, because they want to be in the labor force but have been disenfranchised. Then there’s also the people who are no longer counted because their state has pushed them off Welfare and moved them onto Disability, which has no pathway back to the workforce. It’s a very long story involving Welfare reform and a lack of job opportunities, but low unemployment and Welfare rates are greatly impacted by people who want to work but are forced into going on disability.
Yeah I didn’t mean to shit on Biden or anything; just seems like we’re not quantifying this in a very meaningful way.
It’d be like celebrating that food insecurity is at an all time low! woohoo!! …because access to affordable food is now so bad that 75% of the people dealing with food insecurity have starved to death since it was last measured.
(numbers pulled from ass for demonstration sake)
Yeah, for sure. My point is just that any under-count has probably been relatively consistent for at least 20 years, so the number is most likely reliably wrong if it’s wrong. If the numbers say unemployment is down under Biden, it probably is down under Biden, even if it’s not as low as the report says.
Unemployment is a meaningless statistic due to the weird definition. The more useful statistic is #of jobs divided by total population, which peaked in 1970 and has been declining fairly consistently ever since
That’s like claiming you have more bread by cutting the slices thinner.
Unemployment stats are typically useless for other reasons. For example, this is the definition of unemployed.
https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#unemployed
In the Current Population Survey, people are classified as unemployed if they meet all of the following criteria:
- They were not employed during the survey reference week.
- They were available for work during the survey reference week, except for temporary illness.
- They made at least one specific, active effort to find a job during the 4-week period ending with the survey reference week (see active job search methods) OR they were temporarily laid off and expecting to be recalled to their job.
Done an hour of DoorDash or whatever? Homeless? Not unemployed. It’s very much a meaningless stat and governments around the world game it all the time.
Not that I disagree with you, but if you counted all people who didn’t have a job then you’d skew the statistic even more by counting voluntary stay at home parents and other people who don’t work because they don’t need to.
Can you come up with a criteria that accounts for those who don’t have a job because the system prevents their access to the market without counting voluntary unemployment?
but if you counted all people who didn’t have a job then you’d skew the statistic even more by counting voluntary stay at home parents and other people who don’t work because they don’t need to.
Why is this important? Number of people with jobs / number of people is a statistic that obviously shouldn’t be 100%, but if it goes up or down that’s something we should pay attention to. If we suddenly have a large spike in people who stay at home and don’t work, we should at least understand why
Not one that would be completely accurate.
The best I’ve seen was a measure of underemployment, in which somebody wants more money/better work, is actively looking, but can’t get it. It would have to be through random surveys and extrapolate up, rather than something they can get from the benefits office.
Except this doesn’t capture it really, either, since the number of people with multiple jobs has been increasing steadily
Oh yeah maybe the statistic I was thinking of was percent of population that has a job
Homeless doesn’t equal unemployed. There are a lot of people who have a job but can’t afford housing
BINGO. Yes, 2-3 job having people are counted 3x :).
Otherwise, how else would the numbers be so abysmally out of touch ;)?
Does the 1% already know that? Yes.
No, they are literally not counted 3x. You can easily look up the formula. Is it a perfect metric? Of course not, but no need to bring in disinformation.
I don’t know the stats being referred to, but if there is a number stated like ‘x number of jobs added’, where is it said that it doesn’t include people with multiple jobs? I’ve seen reports a few times about ‘jobs added’, and it seems to be referring to positions being filled, couldn’t it be one person in multiple positions?
I’ve seen reports a few times about ‘jobs added’, and it seems to be referring to positions being filled, couldn’t it be one person in multiple positions?
That is not what this statistic is about though.
I’m not sure what’s the case now, but I keenly remember how Obama “decreased” unemployment by having lots of people being counted as “out of the job market” instead, hence they were not counted for the official unemployment figure.
You can actually see the growth in the latter number correlated with the fall in the former if you look at the graphs with the data from back then.
You’re not wrong, and they don’t usually qualify for unemployment. Also “border secured” is a joke, the reason they’re catching more is because the traffic level is unprecedented. The number I keep hearing is 15 million during his presidency.
Lots of homeless people work. I thought this was just like common knowledge but I guess not
Some yes, some no. I know a lot of homeless people.
There was no guarantee that the American economy fully recovered after Covid. It seems to be assumed by a lot of people, but it is certainly not true.
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You missed:
- Enabled and bankrolled the slaughter of over 27,000 Palestinians.
- Bombed Iraq, Syria and Yemen
So I don’t disagree that we need to get less chosey and start voting for the lesser evil at the very least (not even american here bu the UK also has a choice between fuckwad A and B right now) But the bar for ‘extreme leftists’ has now gotten so low that depending on the company simply suggesting that we shouldn’t leave people to die on the street will get you classified as ‘extreme leftist’
Pretty sure in this context ‘extreme leftist’ just means someone who refuses to vote for biden because he hasn’t been “progressive enough”.
If you’re not voting for Biden you’re not progressive enough. Progress doesn’t happen in leaps and bounds. We have to fight for every inch while rowing against the current. A vote for Trump or staying home in protest sends us off a fucking waterfall.
edit: I’m going to be real with you and a lot of you aren’t going to like it. The amount of downvotes I am getting is suspicious. Anyone who claims to be progressive but would shit on what I just said is a fucking liar. Fite me.
In the United States no progress is made at all. Nobody expects leaps and bounds. Everything is getting consistently worse each and every year.
… while it feels that way it’s not really true. The biggest thing right now is people can’t afford a home which is so shitty everyone has the right to be upset. Abortion is another one but this election would be a major deciding factor. In America it is often one step forward two steps back, I’m not denying it. Only, there are people out here who want to make things better for everyone.
Buddy you mentioned some pretty fundamental aspects to peoples lives getting worse. If life isn’t getting worse then what do you suppose is getting better that makes up for unaffordable homes, loss of rights, historic levels of inflation and so on?
The person I responded to said no progress is being made. Not that people’s lives are getting worse. The government can’t take full responsibility for economic issues. Sure, if we had responsible leadership and a functioning legislator things could be different but much progress is needed to get us there.
Define “everything”
Cost of living and individual rights.
It’s not this simple. The electoral college makes the decisive vote. Voting third party statistically shows dissent and can help these parties qualify for federal funding as well as gain exposure. The GOP and DNC have effectively been playing tennis with abortion and gun rights for decades, this is the only way I personally see any other meaningful legislation hitting the floor or positive change in the long run.
When talking about the general it is that simple. Trump and the GOP is dead set on sending us back 200 years. Nothing to do with the electoral college. 3rd parties will always be spoilers in a national election. You want to build a 3rd party you do it at the lowest level and work your way up you don’t go after national elections. If you disagree show me one instance of a 3rd being relevant on a national level, other than spoilers.
There won’t be a long run if Trump wins. There won’t be a long run if the GOP takes control. The inches we fight for now are much less costly than the blood it will take once GOP tears down the supporting structure of our entire democracy.
Vote for ranked choice if you really believe in 3rd parties. That’s the only way it becomes reality.
I was on the less evil bandwagon but over the years I don’t see enough progress to justify it. But, I respect your decision.
No, leaving people to die on the street is a leftist thing. Because “intersectionality” promised social justice for everyone but all the left is doing is playing a defensive game of identity politics defined by the right, and any mention that labor and social benefits should accrue to everyone will get shut down. I once had a SJ group tell me that the food deserts in my poor white rural area are the result of racism and I needed to politely STFU about how goddamn fucked we are for missing the forest for the trees.
[I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]
Who created this Liberal porn?
Don’t forget:
🎶 Private property’s inherently theft And neoliberal fascists are destroying the left And every politician, every cop on the street Protects the interests of the pedophilic corporate elite 🎶
Private property’s inherently theft
you okay, buddy?
every cop on the street Protects the interests of the pedophilic corporate elite
seriously, who hurt you?
Bruh it’s lyrics to a Bo Burnham song.
It’s just from a comedy song, but it’s always funny to see people more concerned about people mentioning pedophiles in power than they are the pedophiles in power. 🤷
I don’t even know where to start with this one. You just expect me to take his Comment as a Fact?
That one guy on Lemmy said there are pedophiles in power, so i have to believe him and start worrying about it?
It’s much more likely he’s delusional, paranoid, fell for Propaganda or something else.
So Yeah, i worry about them the same way i worry about the people talking about how Vaccines cause Autism or how lizard-people control the world and not about the things they’re alleging.
There’s nowhere to start.
Someone posted song lyrics, you took it entirely too seriously, and now you’re doing the same thing with this other person.
Plenty of powerful people go down for being pedos, and plenty of evidence that there are whole circles of powerful people who get together to pedo, but go off king.
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Someone doesn’t blindly believe anything they read? Must be a Bot!
Fuck off, Dude. That’s fucking insulting.
🥾 😛
If you don’t think private property is theft then you won’t have a problem with this piece of paper that says I own your living room and you have to pay me rent for it.
Absolutely not. Because i have a Grundbucheintrag that says it doesn’t lol
Okay but this burning bush totally told me I own your living room. srsly bro it’s in a book look it up.
Poe’s law peaking.
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With the jackass before him setting bar so low, Joe could have just redecorated the oval office and I’d have considered it a win. Its a bummer Doing The Job like a damn adult doesn’t get enough ink …
Jesus Christ I swear Biden supporters are starting to get as annoying as Trump supporters.
You can’t criticize anything about their dear leader ot they come out of the woodwork to defend him.
Criticise Biden all you want. Just recognize despite your criticism, he is a better option than Trump in every way (and no, there is no third option).
If these are the only two options in our current system
1.) god help us
2.) let’s tear down the system
Unless class conciousness forms in America tearing the system down would result in a mad max hell scape and probably the end of of the human race because of the acceleration to climate change.
If anything climate change would decelerate from the collapse of the system though. I mean, you saw that air quality, pollution indexes, etc have all improved during the lockdowns right? There’s a reason pollution is used to measure how the economy is doing in countries that aren’t honest about it (where usually less emissions = worse economy)
Don’t need to throw out the whole system. Even just ranked choice voting and getting rid of the electoral college would massively improve the quality of our representation.
this like saying eating shit is a better option than starving. One is just slower, but it’s still going to kill you.
Are you right that biden is better than trump? yes. Are you wrong in that, that is an argument for Biden? absolutely fucking wrong. that is an argument for-not-trump… of which there are hundreds of millions of people in the US that are both not-trump and eligible to president. there are at least “50 other democrats”, per Your-Dear-Leader-Himself that can absolutely beat trump.
the question isn’t if Biden is better than trump- we’re still in the primaries. The question is, is Biden the best possible democrat candidate. to which that’s an emphatic “Lol, no.”
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I seriously hope you’ve got better and more persuasive arguments than insults.
because, you know. I take insults to mean you don’t. Also, calling people stupid is… literally right out of Trump’s playbook.
I mean so who’s better than biden at this stage? I wish there was but I can’t think of anyone
We could have had Bernie but the dems didn’t want some one too progressive as president.
then that is a failure of your imagination.
There are numerous options, any one of which- with Biden’s support- prove to be a far more popular and viable candidate. or did you think “Blue no matter who” only applies to centrists? Warren, Klobechar, AOC, Buttigieg, Even bernie, Phillips. Newsom. Probably, any candidate more progressive than a stick in the mud would have a better chance than Biden winning.
Exhibit A
If we can’t criticize our guy, how is that a functioning democracy? I don’t approve of him but since when did my approval matter when it came to my vote?
You’ve seen posts from Trump supporters containing verifiable facts?
Where’s that unicorn hiding?
May I ask you: then why are you here, in !politicalmemes@lemmy.world, if you do not enjoy the back-and-forth of political discourse? I was ecstatic when Lemmy 0.19 arrived and I could finally block Hexbear, and just now I blocked all of Lemmygrad as well, rather than start that whole process again of dealing with toxic commenters.
Granted, the Fediverse makes it difficult by showing everything by default, thereby putting the onus on you to have to block what you do not want to see, but if you blocked this community then you wouldn’t have to see such things ever again? Maybe that’s a note for the future development where some communities could be made to be opt-in rather than visible to everyone by default.
This is a legitimate question btw, fwiw.
Yeah no, I’m allowed to criticize Biden as much as I want. If you don’t want to hear any criticism of your favorite candidate then just ignore it.
I am 100% fine with criticizing Biden btw:-P. In fact, I outright want to hear how he has messed up, even though at the same time I also want to hear how he has done well. But anyway, if you get too annoying then I will block you, and vice versa, message received loud and clear! (you don’t want to limit yourself, you just want everyone else to do so for your sake, got it! :-D)
It would be great if they actually defended him. But they usually just scream abuse at anyone who doesn’t worship him.
I appreciate the bravery it takes to post something like this on Lemmy.
Truth be told Biden’s done a lot of good for the coutnry, it’s just Democrats don’t celebrate their accomplishments like Republicans celebrate theirs
Leftists aren’t democrats.
When the fuck did I say that they were? I said he did some good, I didn’t say he wasn’t a Right of Center Warmonger like every Democrat President is
NOT pooping their pants in public …. again, isn’t really an “accomplishment”
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Lmmfao, yeah, licking the institutional boot… sO bRaVe!11!
You kids crack me up.
Lol saved democracy in Europe, if the rest is just as accurate then he indeed hasn’t been very active in office
This doesn’t even mention many of the infrastructure programs that help people directly - the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, American Rescue Plan Act, WIIN, WIFIA, and probably more that I don’t know about. There is so much work in water lines and roads/bridges because of Biden.
