Voting will move the party left, if people vote for that. But they don’t because leftists are a tiny, fringe political minority. That’s why Biden is in office and not Bernie.
LOL. we already had one. Bernie lost… twice I might add. I hope another person like Bernie runs after Biden’s, or Trump’s :(, 2nd term because even Bernie himself helped talk about things Democrats didn’t talk about (healthcare for all for instance).
You’re doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing while accepting the 1%'s bullshit argument that there is literally no hope of actual change.
Next 4 years, Next 4 years, Next 4 years, almost there guys don’t worry about it.
I’ve literally never met anyone in real life who actually supports Biden, I’m not saying they don’t exist, just that he doesn’t exactly get people excited to vote, it’s literally just “not Trump”
Lol there is hope for change. 4 and 8 years ago, Bernie could have been a candidate. There wasn’t enough people that voted for him in either election, so Hilary and Biden took it.
Now, you do need to wait 4 years because Biden is the incumbent, who historically have a good chance at winning.
In 4 years, if people want progressive candidate, vote canvas and donate. If not enough people do, then that obviously means not enough people want s progressive candidate.
I guess we’ll see. But pretty much everyone agrees that not undermining the unity of the Democratic party in one of the most divisive elections in American history as facism is knocking at the door, is a good idea.
It’s not more authoritarian behaviour, it’s a very standard precedent that people are arbitrarily getting annoyed about this election cycle. Ideally maybe there would be a democratic primary, but the least authoritarian thing to do right now is keep Trump out of office.
Voting will not move the party left. The only reason the dems are in power at all, is because the vast amounts of wealth of Capitalists support them. There’s no bottom-up pressure. Even if Bernie was in office, he’d have to fight tooth and nail with the democrats to get things done, not just the Republicans.
We don’t really know what it would be like to have Bernie in office, because he wasn’t popular enough to get there. But I could imagine it would be hard for him, yes, because no one wants him to be President.
There is bottom up pressure. Clearly. Self-evidently. There could be more if people who don’t want the Republicans in power actually made any kind of effort politically, rather than complained on Lemmy about unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that a cabal of spooky capitalists subvert the Democratic process so your vote doesn’t matter.
The Dems are in power because they won the election, solely because more people voted for them than the Republicans. If you VOTE, you effect change.
People wanted Bernie, Biden was voted for during the primaries in states that went to Trump anyways. The DNC does not want Bernie, so even if he made it to the presidency he would not be able to enact change. Who you can vote for is picked by the wealthy who influence the media and government, Capitalists.
It is absolutely not an unsubstantiated conspiracy, it’s a well-known and documented fact. Pretending that the democratic process within America is not hand-picked and chosen by large corporations and Capitalists is naive and unsubstantiated.
Some people wanted Bernie, most didn’t. That’s why he didn’t win. You have no idea what the DNC wants. The DNC has no authority to try and sabotage a Sanders presidency, that’s a wild thing to say. There were some emails 7 years ago and those people resigned. They’re not going to rig it. Or ignore the vote.
If who you can vote for IS decided by the Evil Capitalists, how did Sanders get onto the ballot, then get millions of votes in 2016 & 2020? How did he run a campaign without a superpac, beating out millionaires with massive campaign funds?
I guess it’s cool if you think politics doesn’t matter because it’s all a conspiracy, it just means your political beliefs have zero chance of getting anywhere.
Which brings us to the goal for this essay: To allow someone with one hour and no background in polling or statistics to come away with an intimate understanding of the real story behind the 2020 Democratic Primary. If you are someone with even a kernel of doubt about the legitimacy of the results, this is, without hyperbole, the most important document you will ever read.
That’s actually ahistorical, Bernie was fucked over in 2016 and was beating Hillary until superdelagates got involved. In 2020, Bernie beat Biden in most states that Biden beat Trump in, Biden only picked up steam when it came to red state primaries. The people want Bernie.
Did Bernie win, though? No. Again, superdelegates and careful design of the electoral process prevents anyone from actually rocking the boat.
Politics absolutely matters, elections at the federal level are loss prevention, and at the local level you can genuinely get Socialists into office. However, meaningful political change occurs when there’s grassroots momentum, like the Civil Rights Movement and Black Panthers. Unionization is one of the best ways to force political change.
Please, feel free to continue mouthing off and putting words in my mouth, you can continue being a radlib and supporting the status quo like your life depends on it, unfortunately I’m not privledged enough to not advocate for meaningful change.
Clinton won the popular vote. Bernie would have had to get nearly ALL the superdelegates to vote against the popular vote to win. All they did was cement Clinton’s victory. His campaign also raised and spent more money.
I don’t know where your reading of 2016 has come from. Is this just copium that Bernie didn’t win? which part of the less votes from more money is the capitalist conspiracy?
And again, Biden beat Bernie even harder than Clinton did. People vote for who they want to be president. America doesn’t want Bernie to be President.
And look at that, the popularity of Bernie has moved the Democrats further left.
It’s crazy how you can be so wrong. The DNC colluded with Hillary against Bernie, it was proven in email leaks circa 2016. As for 2020, again, Biden won against Bernie in red states that went to Trump, Bernie beat Biden pretty handily in blue states.
Bernie hasn’t pushed the dems meaningfully to the left, just the population. The DNC is just as Neoliberal as ever.
But he didn’t win the popular vote in 2016 or 2020! What do you think that means? Yes obviously he beat Biden in the more left wing states, because he is more left wing. But because he is less popular, he lost overall. The DNC ‘collusion’ was some emails then the emailers resigned. When they weren’t colluding, he lost even harder. They’re not rigging elections. This is QAnon level shit. The Dems are meaningfully more left wing. That’s such a blatantly, irrefutably obvious fact I don’t know what to tell you. Look at the shit Biden has done, it did not happen in the Obama era.
I have been to every size of town and city all over the US and it doesn’t appear leftists a fringe minority. The people that accurately labels themselves as a leftist is probably a minority, but many many people are adherents of left wing views, but with no accessible way to push or vote for their ideals. People will support socialist policies without realizing as well, like guaranteeing healthcare or housing for all. People’s ideas of politics are all over the place in the US.
People when polled like the idea of healthcare and housing for all, but support drops off rapidly when you start getting into the weeds of polling actual policy. At the end of the day, coherent ‘leftists’ i.e. socialist adjacent people are a small fraction of the population, and a small fraction of those people would ever go further than larping or complaining on Lemmy.
The fact is there is next to zero political will for true left wing views to enter the stage, and has been shown repeatedly in the multiple resounding defeats candidates like Bernie have suffered, who isn’t even particularly radical. It’s going to be a long time and a lot of work to get a seat at the table for anything like that, and basically no one is putting that work in productively.
The other option some leftists like the idea of is revolution, but if they can’t leave their bedrooms to participate at the basic level in this system, there is no chance they’ll put the work in to overthrow it.
Voting will move the party left, if people vote for that. But they don’t because leftists are a tiny, fringe political minority. That’s why Biden is in office and not Bernie.
Can’t wait to prove you wrong at the democratic primary oh wait shit we’re not really doing one of those for some reason
LOL. we already had one. Bernie lost… twice I might add. I hope another person like Bernie runs after Biden’s, or Trump’s :(, 2nd term because even Bernie himself helped talk about things Democrats didn’t talk about (healthcare for all for instance).
You are missing the entire point…
You’re doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing while accepting the 1%'s bullshit argument that there is literally no hope of actual change.
Next 4 years, Next 4 years, Next 4 years, almost there guys don’t worry about it.
Picking the better of 2 evils is not democracy.
From your(and my) perspective it’s the better of two evils, there are plenty of average democrats that chose Biden on the merits.
I’ve literally never met anyone in real life who actually supports Biden, I’m not saying they don’t exist, just that he doesn’t exactly get people excited to vote, it’s literally just “not Trump”
Yet he got more votes than Bernie. So people definitely like Biden more.
Ignore the fact that the DNC is a private org and can pick anybody regardless of vote counts.
But did they do that?
Lol there is hope for change. 4 and 8 years ago, Bernie could have been a candidate. There wasn’t enough people that voted for him in either election, so Hilary and Biden took it. Now, you do need to wait 4 years because Biden is the incumbent, who historically have a good chance at winning. In 4 years, if people want progressive candidate, vote canvas and donate. If not enough people do, then that obviously means not enough people want s progressive candidate.
Bernie
lostwon then got told to eat a dick, and then his voters were told to eat a dick in court.Then democrats blamed those voters for not voting dem after telling them all to fuck the fuck off.
Citation needed
What do you think would happen that would prove me wrong? A democratic primary is a great way to increase the chances of a Republican victory.
Running Biden is a great way to have a trump victory
Or it will make it worse. Its not 1976.
I guess we’ll see. But pretty much everyone agrees that not undermining the unity of the Democratic party in one of the most divisive elections in American history as facism is knocking at the door, is a good idea.
Highlighting the diversity and love for democracy is better. More authority behavior is not what we need.
It’s not more authoritarian behaviour, it’s a very standard precedent that people are arbitrarily getting annoyed about this election cycle. Ideally maybe there would be a democratic primary, but the least authoritarian thing to do right now is keep Trump out of office.
Voting will not move the party left. The only reason the dems are in power at all, is because the vast amounts of wealth of Capitalists support them. There’s no bottom-up pressure. Even if Bernie was in office, he’d have to fight tooth and nail with the democrats to get things done, not just the Republicans.
We don’t really know what it would be like to have Bernie in office, because he wasn’t popular enough to get there. But I could imagine it would be hard for him, yes, because no one wants him to be President.
There is bottom up pressure. Clearly. Self-evidently. There could be more if people who don’t want the Republicans in power actually made any kind of effort politically, rather than complained on Lemmy about unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that a cabal of spooky capitalists subvert the Democratic process so your vote doesn’t matter.
The Dems are in power because they won the election, solely because more people voted for them than the Republicans. If you VOTE, you effect change.
People wanted Bernie, Biden was voted for during the primaries in states that went to Trump anyways. The DNC does not want Bernie, so even if he made it to the presidency he would not be able to enact change. Who you can vote for is picked by the wealthy who influence the media and government, Capitalists.
It is absolutely not an unsubstantiated conspiracy, it’s a well-known and documented fact. Pretending that the democratic process within America is not hand-picked and chosen by large corporations and Capitalists is naive and unsubstantiated.
Some people wanted Bernie, most didn’t. That’s why he didn’t win. You have no idea what the DNC wants. The DNC has no authority to try and sabotage a Sanders presidency, that’s a wild thing to say. There were some emails 7 years ago and those people resigned. They’re not going to rig it. Or ignore the vote.
If who you can vote for IS decided by the Evil Capitalists, how did Sanders get onto the ballot, then get millions of votes in 2016 & 2020? How did he run a campaign without a superpac, beating out millionaires with massive campaign funds?
I guess it’s cool if you think politics doesn’t matter because it’s all a conspiracy, it just means your political beliefs have zero chance of getting anywhere.
Here is a good article on the hurdles Bernie had put in his way by the DNC.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201101090855/https://berniewouldhavelost.com/
You might as well be linking me to the Q board on 8chan. This guy is huffing litres of copium.
That’s actually ahistorical, Bernie was fucked over in 2016 and was beating Hillary until superdelagates got involved. In 2020, Bernie beat Biden in most states that Biden beat Trump in, Biden only picked up steam when it came to red state primaries. The people want Bernie.
Did Bernie win, though? No. Again, superdelegates and careful design of the electoral process prevents anyone from actually rocking the boat.
Politics absolutely matters, elections at the federal level are loss prevention, and at the local level you can genuinely get Socialists into office. However, meaningful political change occurs when there’s grassroots momentum, like the Civil Rights Movement and Black Panthers. Unionization is one of the best ways to force political change.
Please, feel free to continue mouthing off and putting words in my mouth, you can continue being a radlib and supporting the status quo like your life depends on it, unfortunately I’m not privledged enough to not advocate for meaningful change.
Ok I will continue ‘mouthing off’.
Clinton won the popular vote. Bernie would have had to get nearly ALL the superdelegates to vote against the popular vote to win. All they did was cement Clinton’s victory. His campaign also raised and spent more money.
I don’t know where your reading of 2016 has come from. Is this just copium that Bernie didn’t win? which part of the less votes from more money is the capitalist conspiracy?
And again, Biden beat Bernie even harder than Clinton did. People vote for who they want to be president. America doesn’t want Bernie to be President.
And look at that, the popularity of Bernie has moved the Democrats further left.
It’s crazy how you can be so wrong. The DNC colluded with Hillary against Bernie, it was proven in email leaks circa 2016. As for 2020, again, Biden won against Bernie in red states that went to Trump, Bernie beat Biden pretty handily in blue states.
Bernie hasn’t pushed the dems meaningfully to the left, just the population. The DNC is just as Neoliberal as ever.
Again, keep mouthing off.
But he didn’t win the popular vote in 2016 or 2020! What do you think that means? Yes obviously he beat Biden in the more left wing states, because he is more left wing. But because he is less popular, he lost overall. The DNC ‘collusion’ was some emails then the emailers resigned. When they weren’t colluding, he lost even harder. They’re not rigging elections. This is QAnon level shit. The Dems are meaningfully more left wing. That’s such a blatantly, irrefutably obvious fact I don’t know what to tell you. Look at the shit Biden has done, it did not happen in the Obama era.
I have been to every size of town and city all over the US and it doesn’t appear leftists a fringe minority. The people that accurately labels themselves as a leftist is probably a minority, but many many people are adherents of left wing views, but with no accessible way to push or vote for their ideals. People will support socialist policies without realizing as well, like guaranteeing healthcare or housing for all. People’s ideas of politics are all over the place in the US.
People when polled like the idea of healthcare and housing for all, but support drops off rapidly when you start getting into the weeds of polling actual policy. At the end of the day, coherent ‘leftists’ i.e. socialist adjacent people are a small fraction of the population, and a small fraction of those people would ever go further than larping or complaining on Lemmy.
The fact is there is next to zero political will for true left wing views to enter the stage, and has been shown repeatedly in the multiple resounding defeats candidates like Bernie have suffered, who isn’t even particularly radical. It’s going to be a long time and a lot of work to get a seat at the table for anything like that, and basically no one is putting that work in productively.
The other option some leftists like the idea of is revolution, but if they can’t leave their bedrooms to participate at the basic level in this system, there is no chance they’ll put the work in to overthrow it.
This attitude right here?
Exactly why the orange won.
The MIC picks, not us.
END THE MIC