Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts. I don’t really care about the movie, but I am terrified by the prospect that google now ceased to function on this basic level. Why is this happening?
I understand the explanations of seo and other stuff like spam content. But why are there NO relevant results at all.
I wouldn’t mind having to start wading through results at page 2 or even 10 but now it utterly fails to find even the most basic things.
Things you found on the first attempt even just a year ago. Now they are effectively hidden.
To me functionally the entire internet has now vanished. I cannot access anything that I am searching for. Might as well not exist at all.
Has anybody found a way around this?
Is this on purpose? Is this an attack on the free internet, herding people to just the top 5 sites like facebook, youtube, tiktok, and so forth?
Are there search engines that still work?
Everybody is blaming SEO, which is true - but Google is also hamstrung by walled gardens.
Before Facebook, most content posted to the web was open. It could be viewed by anyone without logging in. Reddit even uses this paradigm.
But then Facebook started putting everything behind their account login and suddenly, Google can no longer spider a significant amount of the conversation going on on the Internet - and it can’t link you to it either, because the link would be dead if you weren’t a logged-in Facebook user. And of course it’s not just Facebook.
This is why appending site:reddit.com has come into fashion in the past couple years. Reddit, being open, viewable without a login, is a fantastic source for finding people who are talking about exactly what you’re searching for.
And it’s another reason why Meta is cancer: all the conversations going on about whatever problem you are experiencing that made you do a search in the first place, if they exist in private groups on something like Facebook - they are useless to you and useless to anyone but the members of that private group. We are losing our giant public knowledge base because capitalism.
You really need to add Discord to this list as it is soaking up gigantic amounts of information about video games as a forum replacement. One could argue for actual community games like MMO’s it is perhaps slightly different, but for the majority it is a huge problem.
In 10 years, when we move off discord for “the next big thing” all that info will be gone yet again. It happened to slack and it will most likely happen to discord. None of it will be indexed too. Fun times.
Where are the data hoarders when you need them?
Tools for backing up servers already exist: https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter But unfortunately discord can’t be easily scraped in one coordinated attempt unlike reddit due to the massive number of private servers and existing verification/anti-bot mechanisms. As a result, only the communities that have data hoarders will be actually archived.
Good link, though not the one I used. I’ve already begun taking measures archiving various chats. Even if Discord lives, my account might not.
But u can login to discord and if the room is public you can see the content. Even if ur logged into FB if ur not in the private group u can’t see the content.
Even if ur logged into FB if ur not in the private group u can’t see the content.
Well yes, that’s entirely the point of the comment above: unlike old school forums, discord is just as useless as Facebook in helping search engines deliver useful content.
I think the point is you can’t put a search term into a search engine and get results from some random Discord. No body is going to go trawling through Discords to then use the search function to potentially find information from it. Now, if chats were somehow archived and could then be searchable, different story, but I don’t think that’s what people using Discord want from Discord.
yeah, this is a problem. But in practice i found that if your searching for one niche problem and your only lead is discord, the people there are going to be kind and help.
I know the pain on having to join something’s discord to get info, but it’s usually fast after I join.
But the bigger issue appears when you don’t have a clear place to go. It’s like we’ve gone back to before written records were common. Once that server goes and the people scatter, that information might as well never have existed. 5 years after Discord disappears, the only knowledge people will be able to find of it will be a handful of old messages complaining about
some dude who scammed a bunch of people with low quality ironDoge coin.I get it, it is a problem. But I just wanted to up the mood by saying that “you can get the info”. ig I just made ppl mad :/
I can’t see downvotes, but I imagine that people just took it as you disagreeing and saying that it’s not a problem.
I was thinking of stuff that’s super niche anyways, like if you’re trying to keep a program running that your company’s database relies on that hasn’t been supported since Windows 95 or something absurd like that. For most stuff, it’s still possible to find at least somebody with an answer, even if you have to go to a Discord server for it. But when nobody has documented stuff that’s super obscure? Good luck!
You can see the content, but it isn’t categorized, tagged or organized in any way. If you’re looking for some specific information but you don’t know which server/channel it was discussed on, you’ll never find it.
Aren’t you comparing apples and oranges:
If the server is private, then you can’t search it. If the group is private, then you can’t search it.
If it is public you can on either platform but must participate on the platform. That’s what made Reddit unique: lurking was real easy and didn’t require an account.
Sidebar from someone who is probrbly just to old to know: How would I go about finding discords that are relevant to my intrests? I am a member on a few servers, but the discovery was always the other way around: I found the invite-link on a website/community that dealt with the topic I was intrested in.
Reddit keeps asking me to use their app and they are very clearly making the mobile browser version worse and worse.
Just last week I couldn’t view a thread I found on Google without signing in. It wasn’t adult content and didn’t require verifying my age. The reason given was very vague and had something to do with the content not being vetted (despite being old).The Reddit garden wall is already here and is currently being rolled out. For your own good, of course.
I use a browser extension to redirect to old reddit, which doesn’t have all this crap yet
Which extension?
There are some extensions you can try - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=old+reddit+extension+firefox&t=fpas&ia=web
But I’m using LibRedirect - https://libredirect.github.io/
If you’re using Firefox mobile (Android), you could try this https://github.com/octonezd/oldlander
You’re a goddamn life saver
Probably this:
“Unreviewed Content
This community has not been reviewed and might contain content inappropriate for certain viewers. View in the Reddit app to continue.”
Knew I could find it by searching for an in-theaters film followed by “DVD rip reddit”. Behold / old reddit link.
The sub exists to funnel people to a single TinyUrl. Checking the preview instead, I expect it (123movieshd dot club) is a malware distributor.
While reddit’s tactic is coercive, it also functions as a lazy way to fight the reach/effectiveness of spammers.
Replace the beginning of the url with old.reddit.com. this will get you in.
Sure, for now. They won’t keep that up forever.
Agreed, but it’s been working now for longer than I originally expected. I wonder if some part of their choice base totally relies on that being available…
Yeah it’s true. Too bad. Bye reddit.
Also, starting in 2018 Google no longer actually searches for the words you entered. Instead, it tries to figure out “what you really mean” and shows results for that. See BERT
“… Google can no longer spider a significant amount…”
What?
“A Web crawler, sometimes called a spider or spiderbot and often shortened to crawler, is an Internet bot that systematically browses the World Wide Web and that is typically operated by search engines for the purpose of Web indexing.”
👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆
But I think that’s letting Google off the hook because when I search for things I do get hits, it’s just weird and I get terrible hits. Last week I was looking for something specific and I found five pages in the top 10 that were all variations on each other, to the point that I assume some of them were automatically generated but have no idea which is the actual original source, if any.
And then if I’m searching for something like song lyrics, the top five hits are all sites that require JavaScript to be enabled and AdBlock to be disabled. Of course Google could filter its rankings to bring sites like this out of the top 10.
So I agree with you that capitalism is a huge issue but one specific issue here is that the Google developers don’t care about things that we care about. And other companies such as Apple and Facebook are worse of course.
The signal to noise ratio has seemed particularly out of wack with Google lately. The amount of blog spam SEO nonsense that crops up into the top 4 results has been pretty noticeable.
I’m not sure it’s entirely a Google thing. Reddit’s decline has made it harder to find quick answers for, “My washing machine’s making this weird string of beeps?” Niche hobbies moving from forums to Discord chats means, “How do I safely remove a keycap without damaging the switch?” is becoming a pinned message in a server you have to hear about via word of mouth. Basically any technology troubleshooting topic has moved from a blog post / forum to a YouTube video. And a 10 minute long one at that. Gotta hit those higher ad tiers.
For what it’s worth, I’m starting the new year off giving Kagi a try. It’s a startup trying to make a paid search engine work. You get 100 free searches to give it a try. After that it’s $5/mo for 300 searches, or $10/mo for unlimited. I’m not sure I’ll sign up for it just yet, but it seems pretty nice. No ads, custom components for things like Stack Overflow and Reddit, and some other nice touches for people who care about search. Their image search actually has a “View Image” link in addition to the “View Page” link. It’s hard to quantify how “good” a search result is, but I’ve been pretty impressed with it so far.
The last part of your comment sounds like an ad straight out of those overlong YT videos.
Have Brands™ started astroturfing Lemmy yet?
I’m not completely sold on Kagi yet. I’m still in the trial period right now. But paid services can be a tough sell online. I figured I’d be up front about the costs rather than wait for the inevitable “$10 a month for search!?” comment.
I haven’t seen any obvious astroturfing yet, but your last paragraph really did have the vibe of a smoothly transitioned paid promotion. Not saying it was, but even the comments that you haven’t fully bought into it made it feel even more like one of the more honest paid promotions.
Yes, they have
I read this same sentiment two days ago; Google doesn’t work for me.
Not sure what they are on about. I can find things I‘m looking for on Google in under a Minute 9 out of 10 times and I tend to use it quite heavily tbh…
if you’re searching for something general, like, i dunno “dishwasher cleaner” or something, it spits out usable results.
but as soon as a query becomes technical in nature, like troubleshooting IT problems, it’s a straight up nightmare.
the reason it’s so bad at searching for anything very specific is their attempt to “figure out what you really mean”:
and google does that by… ignoring what you typed and changing your search prompt behind the scenes without telling you and without any options to change it.
and putting it in quotes rarely improves searches anymore, only spits out more garbage.
point is: google is basically dead for any specific searches and only really works for searches that amount to “i want to buy thing. show me thing.”
I had this weird hardware issue with my desktop and I could not find results for it on Google about a year ago, and I had searched for it a bunch of times previously as well and couldn’t find anything relevant. My boyfriend searched for it on Google on his computer and found a result with the information we needed and i immediately fixed it.
Guessing my “custom” results were poisoned by something at some time, but it prevented me from finding the answer I needed, and I didn’t think to log out at the time.
Super done with Google tbh
I signed up for Kagi after the trial. I’m very subscription adverse, but this one was something I don’t mind paying for.
That’s because it is.
It’s great that DDG doesn’t track a users searches. It really is.
But at the end of the day, it’s still just another ad platform profiting off of companies trying to sell you things.
And here you are complaining it seems like an ad, when someone’s explaining an alternative ad-free search.
Just think about that for a moment.Also, if we’re being frank, DDG’s results are damn near useless half the time.
It’s like the opposite end of the SEO spectrum. Whereas Google just anchors onto certain keywords to regurgitate the same 4 listacles, DDG just sees your input for “my lawnmower won’t start” and responds with “lawnmower huh? I dunno here’s the history of John Deere or some shit, fuck off”.
I tried using DDG but had even worse results than Google is having right now. I wish it was good, but my multi month trial of it was not impressive.
It was especially bad for programming. At least Google still finds what I need for that
Hard disagree with that, DDG searches are accurate about 90% of the time that I use it (which as a web dev is quite a lot) if they aren’t hitting Google with the same term rarely wields any better results.
I’ve had the same experience as you. The vast majority of the time, I can get the results that I want.
It also doesn’t allow you to actually exclude keywords. Which can be utterly infuriating if you’re looking for a specific entry in a franchise or a lesser used definition of something.
It’s just handing your search off to Bing, and Microsoft just does what it does.
DDG pays Bing to use their API. DDG makes money by placing ads in the results. They do it kind of circularly using Microsoft’s ad system, but they are separate.
Kagi is very good and I’m happy to be paying for it, but you were right in your second paragraph. It’s not all google. Signal to noise in the web has gone way off. We need to throw out this Internet, it’s gone bad
It’s a machine learning epidemic. Now that blogspam can be automated in a way that Google can’t even look for without penalizing a ton of sites because people write in a similar style to ML tools, search is basically fucked in its current form. Back to human hand curated webrings.
Also Kagi sucks worse than Google and DDG for a lot of things. I still pay for it, hoping it gets better, plus they have a lot of useful tools.
Yandex.com is where you’ll find movies.
Yandex.com is where you’ll find movies.
And porn. Google has recently became completely useless on that.
Rare Google W
Yeah but it’s owned by Russia
And?
I don’t want the KGB knowing what I’m doing any more than Google
Use tor browser then.
They do have a shitty custom CAPTCHA and it makes tor users do it a few times. You can also just use a decent VPN. Mullvad, Perfect Privacy, OVPN, I’m connected to multiple VPNs like 99% of the time I’m on my computer. On my phone I use tor when I need it.
My washing machine’s making this weird string of beeps?
Oh I got this. You have to put it into diagnostic mode, and then it will flash lights at you, giving you the error codes in binary. I’m not kidding!
For more info you can lift up the top of the machine by unscrewing some screws on the back. There are lots of screws on the back, but only three or four of them attach the top. If you lift the top up you can push the drum back and then slide your hand into the space between the drum and the frame. There’s a ziplock bag in there with the service manual, and it’ll tell you how to spin the knob to enter diagnostic mode. On my Maytag I have to spin the knob R, R, L, R, not to quick, not too slow.
I was blown away when I learned this all. I was having a problem with my clothes not drying, but still the components seemed to be working. I was getting a specific error about one component, but when I tested it it was fine. In my case the problem was where the wires from that component plugged into the control board–it was just slightly loose! So I pushed it in and everything is nominal.
You’re my new favorite person in this comment section.
And this post, being on Lemmy, will be indexable by search engines!
A literal ad. Goddamn. I’m blocking your ass.
Could their comment be a highly thoughtful and extrapolation on the current state of affairs regarding search engines and the rise of free to use products where the consumer is the product? Or is the comment just an ad because obviously anything mentioning a brand is immediately an ad with no other thought put into it.
Buddy, companies trying to build up user base aren’t exactly going to push for it in comment sections of a small pocket of the internet. They’ll spend their ad dollars on targeted FB and Reddit ads or buy airtime on new shows to talk about the dangers of data privacy and how Google is selling you out.
Try Brawndo next time you’re looking to water your plants. Brawndo, it’s what plants crave.
This is tough.
1: Kagi is getting some play in Lemmy comments recently.
2: Lemmings are often technology evangelists, making Lemmy a good place to astroturf for very specific products.
3: Companies are better than ever at properly seeding account comment histories to prevent suspicion.
We should all be appropriately skeptical, though somewhat polite can’t hurt either since there’s never proof of anything and I’ve sounded like an ad before.
who honestly pays for a fucking search engine
reads hard like astro turfing
I do. I use search basically every day and when I’m working I don’t want to waste a bunch of time digging through bullshit if I can help it. Google sucks, $10 a month for a better experience that both saves me time and helps get Google more out of my life is worth it to me.
that reads like an ad so hard lol
I pay for Kagi and it works better than Google. Nobody is astroturfing for them, you’re just paranoid.
Yeah.
If Google released Google Premium - where teams of offshore workers deranked SEO spam junk - would you give them 99 cents a year to Stop The Madness?
This is that, except it’s a no name, and the cost is far more. But I’d consider the $0.99/yr.*
If that seems more sane… imagine you have plenty of disposable income so whatever the no-name charges is practically free for you. There has to be a market for it. But the resistance will certainly be immense.
*
—
Back to astroturfing…
Anytime Kagi is mentioned I suppose I’ll jump in and say they’re an oft-mentioned brand suspected by at least a handful of users to be astroturfing, although there’s no proof, and SearXNG is a popular non-commercial alternative. I wanted to throw Grasp in to give a commercial competitor a shout but they’ve “paused”.
Welcome to Costco. I love you
I just ordered a giant thing of cologne from Costco the other day and when it came in I opened the box and said “I love you Costco” as I did it. I looked at my wife and told her Idiocracy was right. I mean, it always has been, but I’m glad Costco loves me too.
For reference, this is not an ad for Costco, or Idiocracy. Although you should totally watch the movie and membership does have its perks. Plus $1.50 hotdogs.
So far I am really like kagi. Makes sense to pay for something you use every day, without which the extensive resources on the internet would be basically useless.
I have a feeling it’s not unrelated to the billions-in-false-charges-for-ads-slash-youtube-ad-debacle.
Tl;dr: google made a billion dollars charging for ads no one saw and then discovered that happened. To avoid being sued they panicked and ensured ads were seen, which had lovely knock-on effects for most of the interwebz.
Remember “anti-trust” laws? Yeah me neither.
Having to join an entire discord server to just find out or download one thing is really, really painful
I started using Kagi a few months ago and have been really happy with it. It’s completely replaced Google search for me. I think it’s saved me a lot of time and helped me avoid a bunch of advertising I otherwise would have been exposed to. Not being incentivized by advertising money like Google is really makes a difference I think. With Kagi you are the actual customer and search is the actual product, with Google search you are the product and the customer is whoever paid Google to insert advertising into your search results.
That’s because everyone thinks they need to post all of their information to discord to get validation instead of maintaining open web accessible blogs that can be archived
Maybe paid search engines was the end goal all along…
Someone has to pay for it one way or another. It’s just a matter if you want to pay with money or your personal data being supplied to advertisers.
Yep. If something is “free” for the user, then the user is the product
Well, if it’s from a for profit corporation, anyways, that’s typically the case. Either that or they’re trying to onboard you for an upsell down the line.
are you Kagi seeder ?
You can’t just write an essay like that and not tell us what terms you used for your searches
I’m really surprised that you couldn’t find a Hollywood movie in an hour. Can I ask what the movie was? Was there a specific question you couldn’t find the answer for?
I’ve always had the opposite, that a movie having a certain title absolutely destroys that term or phrase’s use unless all you want is that movie.
People trying to look up the Kirby character “Zero Two” to find fan creations based on it…
Only to get barraged with weeb garbage.
Seriously you used to easily find fan content, remixes and music. Now all you get are shitty AMVs of some turbovirgins “Waifu”
turbovirgins
I have never heard this term before… Oh that has me laughing, I can never not associate that with weebs and waifu now
Have all three with zero two kirby search.
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I would ask why op didn’t use IMDb.com or trakt which catalogue every Hollywood movie?
People used to be able to do research. Haven’t they ever heard of the Dewey Decimal system?
You can’t ask, because the OP is just part 1 of an ad
I’ve finally switched to DuckDuckGo because of this. Even though only about two months ago I said here somewhere that it’s garbage. Google just managed to convince me that they’re more garbage.
That’s because DDG gets its results from Bing.
But without the chatgpt spam that has overtaken bing the last few months.
I came to the exact same decision a few months ago.
DDG used to be worse; now it’s better.
The only downside of DDG is that it doesn’t have a decade or two of algorithm data to personalise your searches and sort of “learn” what you mean with certain terms.
Not like I miss it too much. It’s just a mild culture shock to suddenly having to be more clear with my searches
That’s a good thing, in my opinion. I miss when Google results were the same for everyone.
You mean the upside is it doesn’t track every behavioral trait? I can live with that
It just occurred to me that this ability to communicate with a search engine, that everyone used to call Google-fu, was exactly this! It didn’t already know (or think it knew) what you were getting at, and it’s took some practice to figure out how to finesse the results.
I’ve been using Bing and choosing Google only as a second resort or for any shopping I do. If Google wants to be an ad filled shopping mall, I’ll treat it as an ad-blocked shopping mall.
In that case you should be using DuckDuckGo; it uses the same database as Bing, without the tracking of Bing, and with the ability to use ! commands to pull in results from other places (!g=Google, !w=Wikipedia, etc.).
When I’m specifically shopping for things I expect to be tracked and advertised to. I’m just selectively deciding who gets to advertise to me.
Over the last year of me using DDG as my primary search engine it has noticeably improved, give it another and we might see a trace of that spark Google had
I find my DDG results are only getting worse with time.
Same problem as with Google, and then some.
Carefully craft search string and submit.
Click through to a result, scroll and try to find the part that addresses my question.
Get frustrated and Ctrl+F for the active part of my search string.
Don’t find it.
Hit back to search results to repeat (but now the results are shuffled for some reason?)
Eventually give up and put the active parts into quotes to force their inclusion.
Same results.Why am I getting these results if they don’t even match my search string?
been using duckduckgo for a while now. it definetely could be better, but google is just hot garbage.
Ddg is my default, but I still find myself having to resort to Google when the query is not dead simple. The engine is good enough for most cases, but overall Google is just better imo.
DDG is way worse than google. I am baffled by this comment.
I refuse to believe you haven’t been able to find a Hollywood movie after an hour? That sounds more like an issue with you than Google
Google was really valuable before web services were so monopolized and consolidated like they are now. It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now. Before this, you could run searches and it would have all these personal and small websites indexed. Oh look, here’s a guy who lives his whole life as Peter Pan and has a website about it, cool… now it’s just a profile on some social media site same as anyone else.
It’s almost more useful to use the specific websites search function for many things now
Except Amazon’s search of their own store has been so enshittified that it’s normally better to search for a product on Amazon using Google.
I do the same except once I find it I go to that specific manufacturer and I buy it directly from their website more often than not
So AliExpress? I swear 95% of the stuff sold on Amazon is just crap people are reselling from AliExpress.
That’s a good way to do it, whenever possible. Unfortunately most of the results on Amazon these days are from companies with word salad names, like ENGRTSIAL or LOFRABTAN.
Do not use Amazon unless you know exactly what you want. The reviews are almost all fake. What’s annoying is that if you search for review sites on a type of product you do not know much about, they funnel you back to Amazon’s “highly rated” ones and get a kickback of you but the no name garbage. Also annoying is that those words salad companies are all the same manufacturer for the most part. They set up a ton of different names to flood the search results and then throw up a bunch of fake reviews. Some of that shit can be dangerous. Louis Rossman just did a video testung out some highly rated fuses and one of them by Nilight did not blow until 5x its amperage rating. That can easily lead to a fire. He also did one on crimping cables a bit ago that absolutely failed to crimp. Amazon removed his negative review.
Oh look, here’s a guy who lives his whole life as Peter Pan and has a website about it
Holy shit, I haven’t thought about that guy in something like 20 years! I wonder what he’s up to these days. I like to imagine he and the berries and cream guy are pals.
Him, berries, and the rubber guy are probably all buds.
The early to late 2000s was definitely a special time on the internet. I logged on in the early-mid 90s but I think it peaked in the late 00s. Consolidation of services/monopolies and saturation of smartphones I think killed it. Internet used to be something you did actively, now it’s a thing in your pocket you distract yourself from shitting with that beeps at you all day.
I met a friend’s partner for the first time and she said something funny that had this unique quality I instantly recognized. She was in fact another rare woman /b/tard. We can crack each other up at any moment and our professional colleagues haven’t a clue about this weird online subculture with its twisted sense of humor. It’s not even just repeating memes its like a whole mindset you get infected with for life. You can almost instantly recognize when someone else has had their minds ruined by late 00s 4chan. That type of stuff just doesn’t happen now, it’s just like “hueheu look dis,” “euheuhue omg funny, look dis now hgurhehue.”
I remember somebody talking once about how you could tell what part of the internet people frequented back in the 2000s and 2010s by their sense of humor and how they talk, and it’s crazy how accurate that is. To this day, you can tell who was a 2014 Tumblr girl and who was taking sharpie baths and wearing horns at conventions simply by what they find funny and what mannerisms they picked up from those subcultures.
The fact that anybody could go online and start their own subculture out of nowhere just by hosting a forum was a real Wild West experience. The walled gardens of today don’t allow for anywhere near that kind of natural growth. It had some real downsides, but it’s sad to see that kind of sheer freedom disappear.
Yeah it’s super weird how these internet cultures developed their own idiosyncrasies that show up in real life. Nerd culture kawaii humor around the turn of the decade is super recognizable as well, waffles being a meme (not the blue ones), and lolcats (debatably appropriated from 4chan), Natalie Dee comics. As these things were commodified during the 2010s into pop culture it all sort of washed away subculture connection. There’s a kids book series now called Narwhal and Jelly where the dialogue is basically all internet-speak from this era and I’m guessing most parents have no idea and just think its a quirky kids book.
Ytmnd was peak internet
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Popular internet humor as we know it was basically all forged between the slur-stained walls of 4chan anons cursed basements, and people posted way worse things than slurs on there. You wouldn’t pick me out as a former /b/slur in real life cause you’d probably be envisioning a straight white male. Ironically there was something very accepting about the site I didn’t have in real life which is a sentiment shared by many users of the site from this era.
One of the mistakes I see otherwise accurate depictions of 4chan making, talking about the very good “Kill All Normies” book and some others, which really focus on 4chan from 2010-onward, is they gloss over the site before this decade and interpret it as a single userbase. I’m sure there’s some constant users between these decades but I don’t know anyone who used 4chan when I did who continued to use it even into the MLP era. I would point to Project Chanology as the turning point, the infamous 4chan protest against the Church of Scientology, which popularized the idea of “Anonymous,” often referred to as “teh cancer killing b” both genuinely and ironically.
I would argue this is also when the site began succumbing to irony poisioning as people began to sincerely post things the site became infamous for in the 2010s. The “lulz” of baiting corporate media with exploding vans and “Anonymous” had played out and the site now began to adopt an “identity,” whereas before these abhorrent things sort of just happened there and the userbase wasn’t considered this singular entity. This would have been about when I graduated HS, and when I met former 4chan users in college we mostly all derided the site for being garbage.
In recent years the nostalgia for what the internet was in this era has to include 4chan, but I don’t think anyone who was on the site then would say they were good people for using the site and likely the opposite, nor would we probably have assumed the site from this era would have become so influential.
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I doubt anyone who used the site would use “love” and “4chan” in the same sentence lol. The point is if you used it during this time you witnessed something that people who didn’t can only morally condemn at a distance, they can’t talk about the real experience of using the site and meaningfully criticize it. Likewise being there for the true 00s internet wild west and seeing it turn from that into what it became was a blessing for understanding on a visceral level what we all witnessed in the 2010s with incels and maga etc.
I was trying to Google “Best way to shave your head with low or no water pressure” because I was staying somewhere rural for a bit and my razor kept clogging.
All I got were straight razor blog spam and dozens of other completely unrelated shit.
I tried the shake it in a bowl method, 1/10 razor still clogged with hair.
I get specifically pissed at all the AI generated answers.
Funny enough, GPT is where I’m going for searches like this now. Whenever my search query doesn’t pull the answer up with one or two clicks, I head to GPT and it finds the info for me.
*makes up the info for you.
You can ask it for sources etc now, it actually does the searching for you now instead of making shit up
By definition, everything it does is “making shit up”. Sometimes that shit is useful, sometimes not. Citations isn’t going to magically fix that, because it’s baked into how a generative AI based on an LLM works.
I always have it provide sources and I vet them. Same as I do Wikipedia. And it hasn’t been wrong about a movie having a post credit scene or not yet, and now I don’t have to read through all those shitty-ass articles that bury the lead somewhere after providing a shit ‘review’ of the movie.
It’s a very solid tool when used correctly, and GPT4 is head and shoulders above 3.5.
The same tool made up references to seemingly real legal cases that never existed.
K
I hate it when you google how to do basic things and have to scroll through an entire essay on what that thing is and why you might want to do it.
You have a brain right? If you ask it for low water pressure shaving tips I think it would be pretty easy to tell if it’s suggesting nonsense.
The problem is that you’ll start trusting it based on a few examples that it was correct, and you’ll be burned by a seemingly correct answer that is really wrong. I tried testing it with simple science and engineering questions and it was garbage.
Interesting, I’ve had the total opposite experience. GPT-4 is reasonable more often than not. I don’t find the “it’s sometimes wrong” argument very compelling because the same is true for 99% of other information sources. I’ve always had to use critical thinking when look for answers online anyway.
You’d think those rural skinhead training camps would have better-engineered facilities
Wow, really? That’s my go to: shove it in the sink or bath water and aggressively swish the crap out of it. Or, rather, the hair out of it. That must have been frustrating as hell!
While it’s fun to bash on Google, this might have been a more productive discussion if you had provided your search query and perhaps a sample of the results
Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie
Do you understand what a difficult problem this is though? You’re searching for a movie without knowing the title, the release year, the studio, the actors, or anything else.
The medium you actually want to search is the entire back catalogue of Hollywood movies. And, we’re talking the movies themselves – not text, but motion pictures, audio and video. Finding a way to search audio-visual content is extremely challenging because you effectively need a computer to “watch” the movie and understand it.
Failing that, a second-best way to accomplish what you want is to search the movie scripts that were used to film the movie. That’s a much easier problem in that they’re text. But, it’s a hard problem because the movies, the scripts, etc. are all owned by Hollywood studios who are notoriously against any new technology they don’t control, that changes the paradigm in any way, etc.
If that isn’t possible, the only remaining way of doing this task is to search through the web for commentary about the movie. For a big movie that made millions and has tons of reviews you might have some luck, because there might be a body of text that reflects what happens in the movie. You’re basically relying on reviewers / discussions translating the audio-visual medium of the film into text that the search engine can find and index. But, you need enough discussions of the movie to make that possible.
A user here actually recognized your description of the plot and identified the movie as “John Dies at the End”. Again, without relying on someone who has seen the movie, can you imagine how hard this would be for a search engine to do? It would have to watch and listen to something in an audio-visual medium, and understand what it saw enough to form a plot summary. Instead, you were lucky enough to come across a human who had seen and remembered the movie.
But, the movie you were searching for shows why it was so hard to find. This is a 2012 movie that grossed $141,951 according to IMDB, with an opening weekend of $12,467. This movie made $0.1 million, meaning almost nobody saw it. If you had known that Paul Giamatti and Clancy Brown were in it, you probably could have found it relatively quickly by searching their IMDB pages. But, as an aside, it’s pretty amazing they did a movie that was made on such a tiny budget. Normally just getting one actor like that would blow through hundreds of thousands.
Anyhow, I think what has happened is that SEO has become better, walled gardens have blocked off Google from indexing huge areas of the web, and, most importantly, people’s expectations have become much higher. Back when John Dies at the End was released, nobody would have expected to be able to find a movie based on searching for a vague description of the plot, unless they were using the exact right keywords and expected to find reviews using those keywords.
The kinds of things major search engines can do today are frankly like magic. You can search for a vague description like “actress who was in the movie with the blue people”, and holy shit, of the text links, Avatar’s Wikipedia page is the first one, and Zoe Saldaña’s is the second. I mean, just stop for a second and think about how amazing that is.
A search engine does not have to watch a movie to know things about it, that’s absurd and never how its worked
I didn’t say that, read again.
It would have to watch and listen to something in an audio-visual medium, and understand what it saw enough to form a plot summary
I read it again and found that, where you say exactly what you said you didn’t
You apparently lack reading comprehension. Try again.
I mean, I used to be able to ask Google “hey, what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do” and it very often got it right. With just text, mind you; not the assistant and humming some bars. That seems like it should be just as hard as figuring out what movie I’m talking about with a plot description, which is usually summed up on IMDB or Wikipedia well enough that OP should not have had much issue finding it.
i am struggling to either parse or believe this. you have successfully gotten an answer to the search query “what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do”?
It used to be a meme how good it was at doing that.
I swear people here are either too young or didn’t use the internet 8 years ago. All of this stuff was super common to search and get the first result back as the right answer.
Two more “do”s and I’d be certain you’re referring to the final countdown.
Darude - Sandstorm
I used to be able to ask Google “hey, what’s that song that goes do do do do do do do” and it very often got it right
You just got me trying to find that one song I heard in an indie disco 11 years ago that goes like “candy canes and apples” again… and again I failed.
was it a qoo wop song?
If it’s so difficult, then why was Google able to find the answer to questions exactly like this 6+ years ago?
That was why everyone switched to Google. The search engine just worked.
And frankly a large portion of your post is just incorrect. What you’ve described is how a very bad programmer would build a search engine. It’s overly complicated and requires too much data.
why was Google able to find the answer to questions exactly like this 6+ years ago?
curious if there is any way to know for sure if this is the case? is there documentation of vague google searches over time to track their results? sort of seems like a “don’t know what you got til it’s gone” sort of thing for the average user. but maybe there is some academic work or industry publications to this effect?
We do have a good 10-20 years of every news story intro containing a line like “a google search for ‘spatula’ returns 2.5million results”. remember when journalists and other writers thought that just putting a single search term into a search engine was the way to conduct online research?
otherwise it is really just your recollection how it felt then vs now. i can’t comment on @merc@sh.itjust.works’s programing skills but the point about changing expectations is a good one. not to mention that the amount of available data has exploded.
I doubt there’s any way to tell. Google probably has “search quality” phrases that they plug into it to track their quality over time, but those are probably secret, and most of them are probably not vague searches that you wouldn’t expect to work.
I really doubt Google was able to do this 6+ years ago. From what I remember, 6+ years ago, we were still trying to use specific words or phrases we expected to see on the page we wanted to find, or at least phrases we expected to see on pages that linked to the page we wanted to see.
Exactly, this is some of the weirdest gushing i ever seen for a product that is at the worse state it’s been in decades.
This is why at work I just use Bing and edge, slightly better results, and you can say things like “I just binged that and now I am edging so hard right now” to your coworker
bing does NOT have slightly better results
I love how readily people are to say shit like “bad programmer”. I bet most the time the person saying it is either not even a “programmer” or is so average they feel the need to belittle others.
Who even uses the word “programmer” to describe a contemporary software engineer anyway? I don’t think that job really exists anymore.
I always love a random Jason Pargin reference ;)
The biggest issue I have is that half my results come back as videos. Video results should be in the video tab. I don’t want to watch a half hour long video just to find out how to make a healing brew in ark.
One paragraph would convey the information 10x faster than any video couldI just registered an account here specifically because I’ve noticed it a ton recently and I wanted to reply to this since it’s been on my mind. From my experience, google’s quality has been going down in general for a while now, but very recently (the last few months or so?) it hasn’t been just unusable in a figurative sense, it’s been quite completely literally useless to the point of basically being broken.
I really wish I could remember some specific examples of what I was searching for, but I’ve had more than one experience where it felt like if it couldn’t find something on reddit or wikipedia (which I usually have to give it some assistance anyway with the site: filter), it was like that thing just didn’t exist. It was just pages and pages of what looked like fake AI generated articles that were only maybe slightly adjacent to the topic I was searching for. If it happens again or I can remember a specific case I might try to update my response.
Disclaimer: I use bing 50% of the time depending on which browser profile I have open. No real specific reason here, just that I didn’t bother updating the search engine settings on all profiles. Ironically, bing, which I had always regarded as inferior, does manage to give better results in some cases, but even still I feel like the quality has (somehow?) managed to go down as well.
Lately I’ve been trying to use mojeek, which (to my understanding) unlike other sites like DDG actually has its own crawler whereas most alternatives are just frontends for google/bing. The results are kind of wonky a lot of the time, but at least it’s not so much fake unrelated garbage.
I do have an adblocker on all the time. Perhaps that’s related. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that my experience is so shitty given that I’m clearly not their target audience, if we’re just talking about advertising.
Just this morning I noticed that ChatGPT (which I usually hate using) was giving me better results than google. Not just in a little way, the experience was about 100x better. Theory: they’re trashing their search engine product to try to force people onto their “AI” products. Probably not that far-fetched. If they really want to push one product over the other you can either make one product a lot better than the other or make the other product a lot worse.
willing to bet google is garbage now because of all the AI-run “blogs” that post unhelpful idiotic filler “articles” on every topic under the sun
edit: i despise this shit so much that i made this dissection of a bullshit AI article: https://i.imgur.com/Hr1wffj.png
Google search failed to even find a hollywood movie, even after 1 hour of attempts.
That’s just not believable. What was your search criteria?
It got so bad, I mainly use duckduckgo (95%) as of about two months ago
I don’t get why everyone espouses ddg but shits on bing when bing is the underlying source.
I’ve been using SearXNG over Duckduckgo lately. It’s a free (as in freedom) aggregator that searches all the engines. It’s not perfect but you know 100% you are not being tracked.
The results are closer to a true old school search of the web. Sometimes it works better, sometimes not as well. It’s best to pick a local instance that has quicker speeds since the main site can be a bit slower than local ones.
This distributed web stuff is really taking off. I like it!
After hearing it for a decade plus I still don’t know what “free as in freedom/free is in beer” actually means
Free beer, like you get a free beer at a party or event, it’s no cost. Free software that costs nothing but is closed source.
Free as in freedom means the user has full access to the source code and is not subject to unknown code like in proprietary software.
Freedom as RMS sees it: https://lemmy.world/post/8134208
The phrase is “free as in SPEECH/beer”, because it doesn’t make sense to say “freedom” - especially since that has all sorts of other connotations, especially in the USA. Everyone should be able to understand that free speech doesn’t mean a speech that you listen to at no cost to yourself. It means the ability to express yourself without censure. And beer… everyone understands that, and who doesn’t love free beer?
I always get confused by this analogy because my mind goes to beer representing open source (the ingredients aren’t secret, and you can brew it yourself if you want to). “Free Coca-cola” would work better, like you’re not paying for it right now but only one company knows how to make it.
Free as in freedom means it doesn’t infringe on privacy (or any other rights) and free as in beer means no financial cost.
It’s open source. The line comes from the early days when people were still arguing over definitions and free vs. open source and GPL vs. BSD, when the concept was new enough to the general public so that they would confuse “free software” for “freeware”: Closed-source software that doesn’t cost any money. By now all that has died down (unless you’re the FSF) and the acronym “FLOSS” was invented, which sidesteps the double meaning of “free” by adding on “libre”. Really they should’ve gone for GLOSS: Gratis, libre, open, source software. If you have a choice in marketing between shiny and dentist, always go for shiny.
(And for the nitpickers yes searxng is AGPL which makes it libre, not just open).
Oh, and speaking of, haven’t looked at it in a long while, there’s yacy, a peer to peer search engine.
I only use DDG for searching. I use Google for things like checking business hours or directions (you can use
!gto search google)It’s funny how when I jumped to DDG a few years back, I felt like I was sacrificing the quality of results for better privacy.
These days you get the best of both.
It’s the default on all my devices, works just fine.
It doesn’t allow keywords to be excluded from what I have been able to figure out, and some other minor issues that sometimes makes google easier and quicker to use. Most of the time that is a non-issue however.
when i need to search google i add !g at the beginning
Another vote for DDG. I honestly didn’t realize Google had gone to shit, because I haven’t used them for anything in the last 5 years (which is wild for me to think about, because I used to be a huge Google fanboy in the G+/Hangouts/Google Now/Nexus era).
Sadly it doesn’t work as well on non-English websites
