Your Windows 10 PC will soon be ‘junk’ - users told to resist Microsoft deadline::If you’re still using Windows 10 and don’t want to upgrade to Windows 11 any time soon you might want to sign a new online petition
Or just try linux. It’s pretty great
I love Linux. I have it installed on 3 machines, have been using it for over 3 years, and would install it right away if I ever got a new computer.
A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty exhausted and just wanted to play a game thru Proton on my laptop. I got it running, but it was unplayable because it was using my integrated GPU instead of my discrete one. I spent the night switching compositors, cables, and drivers, but none of it fixed the issue.
The next day, feeling exhausted from fruitless debugging, I tried to launch another game via Proton that I knew had worked in the past, but it crashed on launch. I spent the whole day going thru the same steps I did the day before, but also consulting ProtonDB and trying software that would force usage of the dgpu.
The next day, I installed Windows 10 to an external hard drive and spent the day debloating it. Drivers got installed automatically, I downloaded both games on Steam, and they just worked. So I guess I now dual-boot Windows just for the games that don’t work thru Proton. Loading game worlds and booting up take ~75% longer, but that’s to be expected because it’s running on a 4 year old HDD connected over a USB cable.
As mentioned earlier, I love Linux a lot, and if all games had native binaries or Proton worked 100% I’d format that god-forsaken hard drive. But when real life has got me down, I don’t need Linux to get me down further. I don’t like Windows, and I feel incredibly dirty whenever I press F7 on boot to get to Windows. But when my choices are “spend 8 hours on fruitless quest to get >2fps” and “press play button”, I’m going to take the path of least resistance.
That’s the thing. I love to use Linux for work, but when I don’t want to tinker it sometimes sucks for gaming.
Yep. And then there’s gamepass. I vastly vastly prefer working and using Linux day to day, but games, man. Man’s gotta be able to game after a long day at work and I wasted literally a week of after work hours trying and failing to get Starfield to run on Proton.
iGPU+dGPU, esp with Nvidia is pretty bad on Linux. It’s pretty flawless these days if you’re using only one vendor and it isn’t Nvidia.
Don’t know what you are talking about. I use an Nvidia GPU with a Wayland compositor/Window manager (Hyprland to be exact) and I’ve never experienced any issues whatsoever.
I have an external monitor that runs at 144Hz, but a while ago I realized because it was connected over HDMI, it was limited to 60Hz (for some weird reason). So I bought a DisplayPort cable, and after plugging it in the screen was flickering/artifacting in some weird way that I haven’t seen it do on X11 or Windows with the same cable. So as a result I’ve had to reluctantly switched back to i3 for daily use
Sure, use whatever works for you
I would probably rather get a gaming console for the TV to game.
Why not a steam deck?
I love my steam deck but there’s enough games from my library that won’t run at all or only run after some manual trickery in desktop mode.
Tbf that really depends on the kind of games you like playing.
What game was it?
The first game mentioned was Bille Bust Up. I liked the demo that was off of Steam (and it ran fine using the proton-call command), so I subscribed to the developer’s Patreon (which gives a Steam key) and it wouldn’t use my dgpu.
The second game was A Hat in Time.
Nvidia laptop by the sounds of it?
Anything with an AMD GPU is going to have a better time (or even just a dedicated Nvidia GPU in a desktop).
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry to hear you had trouble. Both games are rated as gold on ProtonDB. So, I am surprised you had trouble with them.
My experience has been the opposite. Everything has worked surprisingly well. Do you by chance use an Nvidia gpu?
Yep, Nvidia gpu. At the time I bought it I wasn’t aware of their reputation for Linux support, and I bought my laptop from System76 (with Pop!_OS, because Nvidia drivers are more “just works” on it). I’ve had a fairly good experience with all of it, but the next computer I buy will definitely have an AMD GPU.
I think this is the first time I’ve been fully unable to get the dgpu working. Every other time it’s just worked or worked with tweaking
I work in a linux shop.
You couldn’t pay me to use Windows for development, sysadmin, backend services, etc.
But on the desktop? Hell no. We maintain a modern debian desktop environment for our users, and it’s a pain in the ass. Mediocre UX, mediocre integration of mixed-bag third-party apps, and too many workarounds and gotchas you need to Just Know About. I just don’t have the energy.
I use windows at home, and for my underlying work environment - and I just SSH into linux boxes for the actual tappy-tappy stuff.
Mediocre UX, mediocre integration of mixed-bag third-party apps, and too many workarounds and gotchas you need to Just Know About.
You’re talking about my Windows 10 experience? The european, less spying/advertising version, mind you.
If only there was an OS with an excellent graphical user interface and a direct UNIX pedigree, where you can drop into a full zsh and POSIX user land directly after install at the touch of a button.
If there’s one thing that both windows and Linux users agree on, it’s how weird and annoying macs are.
I’d wager that’s because “we know better what you want” in mac is even stronger than in windows. It’s all good while you are an average Joe, but other than that you either pay, or get a lot of issues setting things up.
“we know better what you want” in mac is even stronger than in windows
At least macOS let’s you change your default browser without showing you 5 million popups that look like fucking malware saying “Please switch back to Microsoft Edge, we know that it sucks ass but please use it”
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As a Linux user, I’d use a Mac over some garbage Windows PC any fucking time of the day. Nearly every operating system under the sun uses some kind of Unix implementation under the hood, well, except for Windows. Running anything in a command line environment under Windows is a huge pain in the ass… Not even having GNU coreutils, BusyBox or the BSD equivalent is just horrible. Just like PowerShell. And don’t even get me started on this antiquated piece of shit called
cmd. Every time I see a CLI under Windows I just want to take the computer that it’s running on and throw it in the trash. At least macOS offers some standard CLI utilities and is basically out-of-the-box compatible with most Linux CLI tools. The filesystem structure is also kinda similar to what you would find on a Linux or BSD operating system. Oh, and recent Mac hardware is pretty awesome whereas Windows on ARM is unusable. And macOS at least looks visually consistent because unlike Microsoft, Apple can actually decide to use one single UI framework for all of their stuff. You can block all of the Apple spyware with a good firewall like Little Snitch and Homebrew fills the gap of the missing package manager. And unlike Winget, Homebrew actually works and is worth using. I can also set up macOS declaratively through Nix, something that won’t ever be possible on Windows either.As a linux user, I SSH to a Linux box when I want to do things that aren’t file/print/email/media/games - though honestly, Powershell is pretty fucking awesome as a scripting language.
Imagine if every command used JSON when piping to/from another command, so you aren’t fucking around with cut and awk and sed all the time just to pull values out. It’s nice. I don’t have much application for it personally, but it honestly is pretty grown-up.
People will disagree with me on this one and it’s totally fine, but I don’t like JSON. Over the many years of using nothing other than Linux or other Unix-like operating systems I just got used to using stuff like awk to filter out data. PowerShell might be nice for scripting, but it’s terrible for interactive usage. I spend a lot of time in the Terminal and fish shell is my favorite because it’s awesome for interactive usage. You don’t have to use your shell for scripting though. You can also just use something like Python, Ruby, heck even JavaScript. There’s also Nushell which has an interesting way of handling data, I think it’s kinda similar to what PowerShell does. Check that out if you are interested.
Sure. As soon as Linux doesn’t require memorizing hundreds of commands for basic use, and actually runs the software you need to use, I’m sure it will become very popular.
So… today?
I’m a Linux user. Been one for a long time.
When I’m doing dev-work, shelling into remote VMs and stuff yeah I have to get nitty-gritty with the command-line.
But on my regular daily-driver OS? I only use the terminal because I want to; or sometimes I think it’s more efficient. But I haven’t absolutely needed to for a long time now.
Linux GUI has really come a long way. It’s not at MacOS level (yet), but it’s very functional and aesthetic. Give it a try.
I’ve been “trying” it for years. Moreso because Windows became truly unbearable than Linux got more useable.
Yeah, I hear you. I still run an old MacbookPro with MacOS for personal computing stuff. I just don’t always want to tinker. It’s been a living meme: “the year of the Linux desktop” for years on years now and yet we still comprise like 0.3% of the desktop market.
But I really do see a tide shift now. Microsoft is doubling down on the enshittification of Windows. Apple’s hardware is still—as always—prohibitively priced. Steam OS on the Steam deck. The Indian government officially adopting it—and its FOSS office application offerings. Companies like Pop!_OS and Framework are making real headway for popular adoption. HP, Dell, Lenovo all offer Linux-default laptops now, that aren’t just “Pro-Dev” offerings.
Linux is not as polished as the for-profit offerings. Perhaps it never will be. Perhaps that’s also its appeal.
I don’t think not being polished is an appeal for anyone. For me it’s just being able to control it. Like Apple wants to control your hardware (and also your software on mobile) and Windows wants to cram whatever bullshit on your computer that they can and load it down with all sorts of bloatware and spyware. What’s my other option? I’d rather deal with an unpolished system than that bullshit any day.
There are a few distributions out there that are genuinely trying to abstract the nitty-gritty away and bring a polished Linux to the masses. ElementaryOS, for one. Yet, it is still Linux at its core and all the poweruser functionality isn’t far away.
But to face a bit of harsh reality, the average computer user doesn’t want that. They resist change and learning something new, they want it to “just work” and “work for me the way [company] says it should” even if that means gross (often implicit) violations of privacy, control, agency. They just don’t care. Or maybe they don’t know. It’s amazing how hard it is to “degoogle” oneself, let alone “demicrosoft” or “deapple”. As I type this on an iPhone…
There will always be bleeding edge computation environments. I just hope that we users can force Big Tech’s hands to respect data privacy and agency. We had a big win with Google conceding web-DRM, but it won’t be the first nor last attempt and their patience is immense.
Tron: “I fight for the users.
Hundreds of commands is just not true with many distros. Everything is gui based these days. The command line is worth getting familiar with, but it’s not necessary.
Hasn’t been my experience. Usually needed at the bare minimum just to install and uninstall the few programs that do run in Linux.
If you haven’t checked out linux in 5+ years, I recommend that you check out something user-friendly like Mint. No commands needed!
Been using it for the last 2 years. That’s how I know.
Sure ok, can you give us some examples from the hundreds of commands you need to memorise for basic use?
The time is now then!
I mean, it won’t let me. Windows Update inists my PC doesn’t meet the minimum spec, and I’m not inclined to argue with it.
#GleefulCompliance
You can use Rufus to install windows 11 and bypass the requirements. It does everything for you – downloads the latest win 11 service pack, removes the blocking requirements, and you can even tell it to automatically disable all of the telemetry and phoning home. You’ll still need a license key when you install, or run it on a machine that was running a valid win 10 install previously. But I’m running win 11 on an 8 year old PC with zero issues.
Here is a good guide that explains in detail.
True, or I could just not.
I would like to point out that this is exactly the same difficulty of just installing linux, without freeing you from microserfdom.
The problem for me is that I basically only use my PC for gaming and YouTube.
I know SOME games work, but I don’t want to add to the list of games I can’t play because they’re console/windows only. :/
I have the exact same use case for my PC and have no issues gaming on Linux for the vast majority of games. The caveat, however, is that anti-cheat can be problematic, so if you exclusively play games with anti-cheat that could be a problem for you. The only titles I have issues with are competitive shooters.
We’ve long since transitioned into the “most” games work territory. Basically apart from anything with rootkit-like anti cheat, you shouldn’t have any trouble playing games at all.
Comparing the level of effort to run windows vs Linux is a whole other thing I’m definitely not getting into. I use Linux for work and run it on two machines at home, but I also use my Windows box for games. You can use and enjoy both, it doesn’t have to be a religious war.
I highly recommend you attempt to run your games on a Linux box, as the experience has improved vastly. I also keep a Windows install around for the odd game that doesn’t work in Linux (basically just a couple competitive shooters that I enjoy), but the number of times I need to boot into my Windows partition are diminishing day by day. Definitely did not mean to be a zealot about it, but going through the effort outlined above just so you can get Windows updates from a company that clearly doesn’t care if they trash your machine forcing your upgrade seems foolish to me.
Mine doesn’t, either. Go go gadget 12 year old processor! Who knew being a cheapskate could be so beneficial?
Just follow this guide and all of your problems will be gone
But refusing to upgrade me to 11 is an anti-problem…
Is it the UEFI security thing?
TPM. Probably switched off in the BIOS or something.
Don’t care, don’t like what I’ve seen of 11, happy to wait until I’m forced to change.
Nah fuck you, I’m staying with 10 as long as I can, then I’m switching to linux
My PC doesn’t hit the requirements for windows 11. Yet it kept asking me to update. Been running Ubuntu ever since
Same here, but I moved to Arch because I wanted the latest drivers, at the beggining with GNOME, but then moved to KDE to get the newest Wayland stuff related to Gaming.
How difficult would you say is getting in to arch?
No harder than any other distro, I came from Windows, distrohopped between 10 distros, and settled on Crystal Linux (arch based), after learning that KDE was better for gaming, I switched to Manjaro out of ignorance that Crystal already offered that DE.
Hahaha, no you’re not
I just made this exact switch a few months ago, so, yeah, it happens.
And I did it 18 months ago!
(Spoiler: it turned out fine)
Almost a year here! Working great! (No, for real, modern desktop Linux experience is surprisingly refined, it’s more stable and performant than Windows!)
And I never did. I just started with Linux Mint when I got my first laptop.
But I do see the perspective of Windows users, perhaps. I did briefly try using Windows, but it was frustrating. I don’t know how to set anything in there. For some reason there’s 2 setting apps (control panel and settings), each only being partially usable. My Wi-Fi kept dying, the only solution was replacing the Intel Wi-Fi card for one from Qualcomm. Bluetooth only worked randomly like every 20th restart. Drivers for my 20 year old printer didn’t work in either 10 nor 11. Only up to Windows 7.
Painful experience.Yeah, when they went from 7 to 10 (there’s no 9 for horrible hacky reasons, and 8 was the mandatory half-baked test-run of the next proper version), they tried to redo the aesthetics of those systems to be more touch-input styled, but they only half-did it. If you want anything more advanced than the settings app gives you, you need to dig into the control panel. Then there’s the deeper settings - device manager, computer management, startup services, firewall, the registry, and on and on, all of which are designed entirely differently and many of which haven’t seen any update since windows 2000 at least. I wouldn’t be surprised if some went back further. It all speaks to ancient legacy code nobody wants to touch and the unfathomable depths of technical debt that implies. I get the sense the settings app change is another in a long line of updates that became legacy and added yet another layer to this byzantine system.
Then there’s the lovecraftian user permissions system that seems like it layers three levels of abstraction that you have to utterly master to get literally anything done and which I have given up trying to understand. If I need permissions, I run a third party batch file that assigns complete ownership of everything in a folder to me, and then I don’t think about the consequences.
I really want to move to Linux, but I’ve gotten burnt out on attempting and not being able to do all of the many things I’m used to on Windows. I’ve been hearing good things about it lately and I may just have the energy to try again soon.
I wish you a good luck! And don’t hesitate to ask - often times it’s very simple, actually!
Wow, a real Linux native here! Wonderful to know.
Yes, I gotta say after running Linux for like a week I seriously couldn’t think of coming back to Windows. I just began to understand how much of a trash Windows systems are.
Yeah but I use my pc to play games. And to read all the Linux coping strategies to run modern games with software bypasses or strategies… I don’t need to jailbreak and run through 150 pages of forums and guides so I can play my steam games.
I have ~200 games in my steam library, all of which run by pressing “play” in steam. I may just accidentally like games that run on linux, but running through 150 pages of forums definitely isn’t the norm nowadays
Well I was playing starfield when considering dabbling in running Linux and I got shy reading how to run it on Linux, let alone any of my other games.
Majority of games are launched as easy as pressing play in steam, or even just launching the .exe with regular Wine. Software bypasses are mostly a thing of the past. I’m saying this as a gamer.
Is Starfield one of them? I installed Ubuntu next to Windows 10, and like it just fine, but I’ve read that getting Starfield to run on Ubuntu is not possible yet? If not for Starfield, I’d be 100% Ubuntu now.
Tf do you know about anybody, especially on a FOSS-leaning network?
i know that basically everyone on here is a pussy
First of all fuck you. Second of all I laughed my ass off at thst. I’m not sure why. Good job.
you’re welcome steven
Especially you
Nutsack and CaptainVaqina calling each other pussy.
I’ve been using linux on my secondary machine for a couple of years now and I don’t really feel the need to use Windows anymore.
all of my software just works and my workflow is cross-platform (I don’t really care about which os I’m using, i can get things done regardless); but as a software developer I’d much rather use linux than spend my time managing like 6 virtual linux/unix-like environments on windows. (wsl, msys2, etc)
All of the games I care about actually work slightly better on linux than on windows. (and a single click away from installing and launching from steam); also Steam Big Picture mode and gamepad support (dualshock 4) is much better on linux than on Windows 10, on windows some features only work over Bluetooth.i use arch btwI made the switch to Linux Host OS 5 years ago and haven’t looked back. Plus the fact that Cyberpunk 2077 works with an RTX card and wireless game controller out of the box is enough to keep me interested for now.
Yes I am
I made the switch to linux when Win7 died, cause Win10 is a giant PoS and I refused to ugrade to it, lol.
Hopped a few Distros before settling on Nobara, which has given me the best “It just works” gaming experience.
Try it on an external drive. I did that a couple years ago just to fool around and see if I liked it, within a week it was my main OS and I’ve barely used Windows since.
Fun fact: Linux is so customizable that you can run a modern GUI and software on 46mb of ram and a CPU from 1989. Don’t let Microshit tell you to throw out your old PC, it’s truly surprising what’s possible.
Yeah but can it run signed drm in a way that the owner of the computer can’t read the keys? Checkmate atheists.
I’ve switch my home computers to Linux. Unfortunately, at work, I have to maintain a Windows environment…
Did your job give you a work Laptop? If you personally own it then you could just run Windows in a VM.
I do IT support at my company. We are a small business, but we work on many government contracts. I’m personally not experienced enough on Linux to support it at a businesses level. Part of working on government contracts is that we have to be CMMC certified in the relatively near future, probably first or second quarter next year. I’d love to get off of Windows, but like I mentioned I don’t have the knowledge to get us there, and we’re pretty entrenched in Windows until at least after the audit. Maybe someday, but the Microsoft m365 business GCC High is built with that specific certification in mind. It would require changing everything about our business to switch, and I don’t care enough about the company to go through that.
But can I be fucked waiting 5 minutes for a VM to boot every time I need to use a Windows-only tool?
Don’t shutdown the VM. Instead, use shutdown -> save button in the virt-manager. Now your VM will launch in seconds next time you want to use it because it’ll be resumed from the saved state.
now your VM will start in seconds
Cries in HDD
Sounds like a great excuse for a bit of a hardware upgrade, SSDs have gotten pretty cheap. You can change your whole computing life for $30-50.
You could just use the earliest version of Windows that the software works (Windows 7 usually) and then keep the VM air gapped (aka no Internet connection)
Let me introduce you to Adobe. Single-handedly keeping Linux adoption in check.
So customizable that it can’t even be run on many devices.
Linux runs on way more devices than Windows, what are you talking about?
Well not the ones I tried. Maybe I had bad luck.
Now this has me curious, what devices are those? Since transitioning to Linux I’ve installed it on a Mac, a surface pro 4, an old Lenovo laptop, an Asus laptop from 2014, my dedicated LAN desktop PC and my main desktop gaming PC, and none of those have had any issues.
It’s been like 15 years so I don’t remember but I remember one wouldn’t work due to a proprietary driver. The other I just couldn’t figure out so it may be user error but it certainly wasn’t easy to set up.
That’s understandable then, a lot has happened and the installation process in most distros is extremely user friendly and automated these days.
I have been meaning to give it another go. You think it’s easier these days?
Probably something in the BIOS, like secure boot or something. Normally such issues are easy to troubleshoot.
Once was a proprietary driver. Obviously not the fault of Linux but still an obstacle for me. The other I forgot the issue. It may have been solvable but it was not easy for me.
Got you. Yes, drivers are still a mess sometimes.
Nah, fuck it, I’m switching to Linux.
Next computer of mine will definitely be running Linux. Only thing I’d ever need windows for is some oddly specific software that won’t work on Linux because I’m too dumb to get working properly.
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Lmao. This article is junk. Yew I’m sure millions of people are going to suddenly dump their PC’s because they don’t get security updates. Most people don’t follow this at all and don’t care.
And no, they’re not going to magically jump to Linux as much as the Lemmy circlejerk loves to believe. If they know enough about security they probably already have looked into Linux and decided against it.
As I Linux user I can’t wait for the flood of cheap perfectly good hardware from these idiots
Bonus points is that they’ll probably be the last gasp of hardware consistently supporting S3 sleep too
Hey, can you elaborate? I switched my couple year old Windows 11 laptop to Linux a few months back, and no matter what I can’t get sleep to work. After doing research, apparently this is a common issue with Linux on laptops.
I eventually got hibernate to work, so I have it do that instead, but regular sleep would be nice…
Yep! So I can’t say necessarily what your specific problem is but it’s probably related to the big push towards “S0 Low Power Idle”, or “Modern Standby/Sleep”.
In a nutshell, MS and related peeps wanted to go after the always-connected, updated info, instant-on nature of the iPads and other mobile devices. I would guess Apple’s “Power Nap” functionality on their Mac was on their mind too. The effort resulted in the Windows 8-era Connected Standby as it was known then.
They have been pushing hard on S0 as the next version of sleep since. Who “they” is I am not entirely sure - it could be upstream at MS, Intel, most likely but the end result regardless is that OEM’s have been switching to Modern Standby.
But fortunately, some machines have a choice. My ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 4 has a BIOS toggle to switch between S0 and ol reliable S3 sleep (labeled Linux sleep) - no Windows re-installation needed despite the warning on it. Other machines might not like the XPS 9510 and Latitude 7210 2-in-1 I had previously. (I got rid of the former due to warranty issues and suspect build quality, the latter because I needed more oomph and less portability)
I was losing 8% battery an hour in the 7210 and I wasted hours troubleshooting only to find out that the M.2 drive I installed was somehow “not compatible” with Modern Standby, after that was sorted it was the only Modern Standby experience I had that was mostly acceptable.
My new work laptop is a ThinkPad T14 Gen 3 and there is no option to enable S3 so I am on that Modern Standby train involuntarily for this one. Anyways, after the battery reliably drained several times in a few hours of sleep, with the power light pulsing indicating it was sleeping - I was able to get the company service desk to enable my hibernate setting and I use that exclusively so I don’t have to keep it plugged in while traveling to save my state.
Sometimes that toggle is removed in a BIOS update so you’ll have to research that too, and what version to install if it occurs.
So yea, S3 is going out of fashion and taking reliable sleep with it. Lot of complaining out there about battery drain, overheating in bags, OEM’s recommend just using hibernate, Linus Tech Tips had a video ranting about switching to Macs over it and supposedly heard from an MS engineer but I don’t think Microsoft will be able to truly fix it, it’s been years.
If my laptop dies, I’ll probably get another like it or maybe take the opportunity to jump to a Steam Deck and maybe an ARM Mac. Not sure yet. When the time to jump to Linux comes in a couple years, maybe I’ll just get a desktop.
Oh wow, thanks for the in depth reply. Am I incorrect in assuming that they want the “Modern Standby” to be standard, because that mode means the device is always “connected” despite being asleep?
There must be a reason that a corporation would push for a seemingly inferior technology, and it’s basically 100% of the time about money.
I’m just speculating but I would say that’s “not wrong”.
The network connected part of Modern Standby can actually be disabled reasonably easily in command prompt and it does come up as a possible band-aid to battery drain issues. (In my applications it didn’t help a noticeable amount but at least it’s there.)
When Modern Standby works, it works… okay. I mentioned getting it working on my 7210 2-in-1 after swapping for a proper SSD (eyeroll) and while it still used more power than S3, I could live with 1-2% of battery loss in an hour a lot more easily than 7-10% and I leaned on hibernate more as well since so many of us have been burned by Modern Standby when it doesn’t work.
I’m sure that while having the user computer being connected more is a net positive for telemetry and data collection but I think the drive towards it is more of a semi-misguided effort to compete with the sheer instant-on, always-updated nature of smartphones, iPads, Android tablets, etc. much in the vein of how Windows has been pivoting left-and-right to fit onto tablets the past decade but not completely recognizing that people often use desktops and laptops differently.
So on paper it’s not inferior at all. Instant on, instant off, minimal power use increase, the computer can ring when calls are received, it can keep email up-to-date, sound alerts for reminders all while sleeping whereas it’s completely dead in S3 save for RAM being powered.
Sounds cool, it’s high-tech, I thought it was neat when I first heard about it especially since Apple’s Power Nap feature was around for years already and did nice housekeeping functions while the machine was sleeping - albeit within power use and thermal limits.
Microsoft and OEM’s just can’t seem to make it reliable enough to be the slam-dunk it theoretically can be nor do it’s benefits really shine in my use case since I sit down to use my Windows machines and nothing I use really can take advantage of Modern Standby. And since S3 is increasingly being pulled out, Linux has to deal with their shenanigans too.
Edit: Also I would expect ARM Windows machines to sleep better or at least be efficient enough to not worry, but I can’t say for sure.
Amen brother
People will just keep trucking on Windows 10.
I’ve been to the swap meet prices are already falling for older PCs.
There is no way they don’t offer extended support for Windows 10. Many PCs can’t get to windows 11. Imagine all the malware infected machines that will be out there.
I worked for a large computer company in the late 90s, early 2000s. When XP came out, they said there would be no site licensing. This meant we had to keep track of license keys for thousands upon thousands of systems, costing millions. This was before KMS or anything.
“Nothing we can do,” Microsoft said. “We have no gate key.”
Our server farms at the time were 40% Windows NT 4, 55% Sun systems, and 5% Linux. So we said, “okay,” and called Red Hat. In a year, our back end was 60% Sun, 35% Linux, and 5% Windows NT. We were already in talks to start switching to Linux workstations for desktops.
“Oh, you mean this gate key,” said Microsoft.
Asshats. They lost our server business, but let us use XP with a site license.
I assume eventually they’ll drop the UEFI security requirement, which is why 90% of the “can’t” cases occur.
Uefi isn’t the push, the push is tpm 2.0, which I think is a much much larger percentage of “incompatibilities”. tpm allows for drm that is much harder to bypass, since the random number generator operates securely in hardware. It’s for their benefit not yours.
Precisely why I’m in no rush to “upgrade”.
My Windows install is still in compatibility mode. It’s the sole reason I can’t upgrade to 11, not that I want to. I can’t be bothered to reinstall Windows on UEFI when there’s no point anyway. I’ll happily stick to 10.
Microsoft products are all about getting infected with malware. That’s the whole point of this company.
These people… “please, let me continue being a Microsoft slave!”.
Free yourselves and install Linux.
I’m so sick of hearing this and I use Linux on a daily basis
Installing Linux for us nerds is just something we know how to do. Asking a computer “normie” (which is, basically everyone else) to change their operating system is just not happening.
I couldn’t imagine trying to step my mum through installing Linux if I stood next to her, and I wouldn’t class her as stupid.
I maintain that for Linux to obtain mass adoption it either needs to be preinstalled or make it no different to install than a regular Windows program (which is damn near impossible).
I’d consider myself a nerd but still prefer Windows.
Some years ago I was in a Vocational college for IT and I had to deal with Ubuntu, Debian and Opensuse. I hated every second of it. I also had to deal with iMacs but that’s another story.
I’m a computer nerd. I do tech support for everyone in the family. I keep trying Linux intermittently and end up uninstalling it and find I can’t use it as a daily driver. Although the day I will be able to use it is getting closer. The Steam Deck is helping with this. Also Chat GPT is great for finding solutions for things that either require trawling though tons of online forums or getting shamed for asking.
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I currently run Linux on a secondary computer that I mainly use for streaming media while I work from home. Anything in the web browser is great in Linux, especially because I don’t feel the age of my several almost 10 year old computers on Linux the way I do on Windows.
For example, I’ve got an old laptop with a third gen mobile i5, back when 2 cores/4 threads was common on those. It was running Ubuntu for the longest time and it was pretty jarring how slow it was when I tossed windows on there because i thought the laptop was still fine performance-wise
My opinion on Linux is that it’s (only) good for lightweight computing / mobile computing.
Such as Rasperry pis and Android devices.
I had this same issue and what helped was go for a dual boot with windows and slowly learn how to customize things so that I can be as productive as before.
Also, steam electron helped a lot with this transition, as I didn’t have excuses to not change partitions between gaming and working/studying
Just follow the handy dandy Microsoft guide to installing Linux https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
But seriously. Yes, it’s true that installing a new OS is a level of effort the average person is unlikely to want to put in. But they’re going to have to start because I believe the situation this Windows monopoly is causing is far worse than it appears on the surface.
It’s estimated that around half of PCs in the world won’t be able to run Windows 11 https://www.computerworld.com/article/3657628/more-than-half-of-pcs-cant-upgrade-to-windows-11-report.html
Sure, a good chunk of those machines probably can’t even run Windows 10. They’ll still be on earlier versions of Windows, even going back as far as XP in some cases.
Because of the “latest Windows” benchmark PCs depreciate only slightly slower than bananas. Part of the reason I got into Linux as a young and poor nerd was because it could run on much older and significantly cheaper hardware. But most people and organisations aren’t going to bother trying to resell their computers for the measly sum they’d get when they bite the bullet and upgrade, adding millions of still perfectly usable machines to the ever building toxic soup of e-waste and using more resources than necessary when creating new Windows compatible devices.
On top of that those who are unable or unwilling to upgrade end up with an OS full of more holes than swiss cheese that diminishes cyber security for everyone.
At this point, not switching to Linux (which is really the only viable Windows alternative) and getting the longest lifespan possible out of your hardware in a safe way is frankly irresponsible.
I think this is ultimately Microsoft being irresponsible, because most people will either stick with the then insecure Windows 10, or just buy a new device that can take Windows 11. Most would rather do either of those than install Linux, if they even know about Linux at all.
Linux (which is really the only viable Windows alternative)
It’s just wild to me how BSD has basically entirely fallen off the map. Back when I first was farting around with Linux the server marketshare was pretty evenly distributed between Linux, BSD and Windows Server, then it was half Linux, and now Linux simply dominates the server space
Yea I haven’t heard of companies using BSD at all these days and it isn’t really suitable for desktop use. But I’m interested to see if Haiku progresses to be a good desktop Linux alternative https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/
I’m really excited to see where Serenity OS goes
Fascinating stuff. Think I’d prefer using this over most of the “alternative” OS that are about. But after reading more about this and Haiku I’m starting to think things like a modern web browser and video/ audio editing tools are probably going to keep me off them both for a long time at least.
Nah fam, mint’s a gamechanger
I switched from Win 10 to Ubuntu this year. The Ubuntu installer was easy as hell. I’d argue easier than windows.
It got tricky when I needed the non-latest CUDA drivers for pytorch fun, but most folks won’t be doing development.
Also, most folks don’t install windows. They’ll give it to their nerd nephew or their local Compu-Hut.
My biggest gripe is Snaps can make for confusing permission bullshit when saving files or using the clipboard, but this isnt a debate about snaps… the installer is great
Most people don’t install windows or ask a family member or friend to do it for them, they buy a device that has windows already on it. The number of people who put windows on a device themselves is a miniscule fraction of windows users
You’re right. Over the years, I’ve installed various kinds of Windows for relatives, and various Linux distros for myself and my wife. I’ve found, particularly in recent years, Linux is easier to install and more straightforward. Yeah, I’m an experienced user, so it’s fairly easy for me and not intimidating, but I can’t see a Linux installation as more difficult to install compared to Windows.
Most users, as you say, don’t install an OS themselves, which applies to both Windows, Mac and Linux.
The installation has always been easy enough for me, but what I struggle with is updating drivers and installing new software. Granted, I’m not the brightest bulb in the box, so there’s that. I did really like the insane variety of distros and all the needs they cater to. Like if there’s something specific you need your OS to specialize in, there’s probably a Linux distro for it.
My 11 year old son does his homework and research on Linux Mint. After that, he sometimes plays some Minecraft or Valheim with his friends or does some drawings on his graphics tablet and listens to music or audio drama on Deezer. What else does your mom, that she cannot use Linux Mint?
The main point of the comment seems to be that his mother, who represents a demographic, would have trouble removing an OS from a machine replacing it with Linux.
This literally has nothing to do with what the previous poster said.
My soon to be 4 year old is getting really good with the mouse and keyboard so we intend to set her up with her first computer for Christmas. I’ve got an old Lenovo Tiny with an i5-6500 and 8gb of RAM that I snagged from the junk pile at work that I’m going to setup with Mint or even just plain Ubuntu. I’m curious to see how long that PC lasts before we have to swap it out for something more powerful. Probably whenever she starts playing more demanding games that aren’t just running from PBSkids.org
Installing Linux has been painless for over a decade, its as easy as clicking next. You’re telling me Windows users can handle all the stupid bullshit Microsoft throws at them, but a couple different icons and a different name is really gonna stop them from understanding the basic desktop metaphor that has been in use since the 90s?
They weren’t talking about using linux, they meant installing it. They were referring to downloading a disk image, writing it to a flashdrive such that it’s bootable, making sure your bios is set to let you boot from removable media, pressing the right key for your device to select the boot media, picking the flash drive, and then navigating the installation interface.
There are definitely places where I see folks getting stuck in that process if they’re not a technical user and/or familiar with linux
I wish, but multiple Laptops with unavailable drivers, barely working trackpads, sleep issues and a few other annoyances tell me it isn’t always as easy.
I haven’t found many systems that Windows doesn’t run
I disagree with this because for 20 years both the Ubuntu and Debian GUI installer ran like a practical joke from hell. Even Linus himself said he couldn’t get it to work. Only Debian really improved while Ubuntu continues to somehow explode every time I try it
Every other distro besides hardcore ones like Gentoo and Arch have pretty basic installers that greatly outshine the crappy windows 8/10/11 setup screen.
Fedora has an auto installer tool so all you really need is a USB and not some magic funky thing called rufus.
There’s even entire DE setups dedicated to looking and functioning exactly like windows to the point that the average person wouldn’t even recognize nor care to know the difference.
Yes actually getting someone to replace an OS is hard no matter how easy you make it because it involves doing something unknown or new. But by the same token, we used to run DOS and install windows from floppy disks like it was no big deal back before windows owned the desktop market. Talk to anyone who was a college student in the 90s and they’ll probably recognize the word UNIX, even in unrelated non CS fields.
It’s actually not a big lift for “normies”, and I’m considering switching my parents to Linux after Win10 support ends. They don’t really know how to use Windows, so I just have to pre-install a Linux that looks similar (probably Mint) and then put Firefox, Libre Office and VLC shortcuts in the same place they expect. As long as Firefox still can get them to youtube and facebook, it doesn’t really matter what the rest of the OS can do. I’ll have to find an alternative remote support solution though.
Yeah, you install it for them. He’s talking about people installing it themselves.
How is this going to help his mom install linux?
Did you open the page? It answers your question. And if it doesn’t then this video will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7CqDCw8mPQ
TL;DR (even if you’d get it in 3 minutes) it makes installing ubuntu as easy as installing an application on windows.
Do you really think someone’s mom is going to go through this?
Look at this bro, you don’t even have to configure anything. Just double click on the installer, click install, and follow instructions. Are you seriously saying installing microsoft office is easier to install than this? How did somebody’s mom ever install software on windows if they can’t use an installation wizard?
Also, if an installation wizard is too hard, how will you even understand the difference between windows 10 and windows 11? How would you even understand what the petition is about? Do you really think somebody with the capacity to be worried about windows 11 or 12 would not be able to click “install” and hit “next” a few times?
Always moving the goal posts. First it has to be easier to install, then when it’s made literally the same process as any other program on windows it’s “too hard”.
That’s a shitty response.
It’s not that simple for gamers.
What do you mean bro? Linux runs a shit ton of games and some even better than windows.
It depends on the type of games you play. If you’re more like me and you enjoy playing single-player games, then yeah you’re all set. If all you play is Valorant and Fortnite and PUBG and League of Legends, you’re much more likely to have a hard time. Anticheats are a special kind of evil.
I thought not supporting Windows rootkits is a positive for Linux?
BTW, LoL is playable!
League is playable most of the time but the launcher frequently breaks and there tend to be issues in-game, I’ve randomly had sound just straight up not work, and it tends to require a custom build of wine. It’s far from the most playable gaming experience. There are much better gaming experiences to be had on Linux.
The problem lies with the games that don’t run well. I love Linux as much as the next guy and I hope to see better support in the future.
Are you stuck in 2015?
I check in every now and then. It is still not to the standards that I want.
My fiancée’s games all run much better on Debian (with KDE) than on Windows.
That is great for your fiancée! Some of my games don’t, unfortunately.
Not until game companies embrace Proton(-GE) and Steam Deck.
The only modern games I’ve ever had issues with were a few select DX12 games (and that’s due to my GPU). Outside of that, some old games outside of Steam game me trouble, but that’s usually just a matter of fiddling with some settings in Lutris. Even then, those are usually games that also have trouble on modern Windows versions, and they often require less tweaking on Linux to get them running.
Modern DX12 games and older games are my jam. Besides, Star Citizen…
ok
K
thanks
bye
Dude what ad ridden hellscape is that site, ublock pinged 45 ads on that page just on load lol
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Third-party scripts disabled and it loads instantly, no ads. Funny that.
yea it was overkill enough to make me look into if connect supports always opening links external so I can have my ad block lol
The day i had ads on my start page i immidiately uninstalled windows. I installed some linux distro its been like three years and ive finally settled on arch. it was hard but fuck ads on the start page and i feel smarter for it
When you swap distros, how do you manage all your files and settings? Do you just save your files externally and start from scratch every time you change a distro?
how do you manage all your files and settings?
I don’t. I just use a separate drive for /home. And since I just prefer KDE no matter which system I’m using, all my files, settings, layouts, panels, etc are exactly the same whenever I switch out the OS.
Typically your personal files and app settings are stored somewhere in your user home folder, eg under
/home/bob/. Ideally you’ve set up your system in a way so that the entire/home/folder is stored on its own disk or partition at least. That let’s you boot up a different distro while using the same home directory. But even if you haven’t set it up separately from the rest of the system, you can still manually copy all those files.Not every single application setting is transferable between distros as they sometimes use different versions but generally it works well. Many apps also let you manually export profiles or settings and reimport them elsewhere later. Or they have online synchronization baked in.
So in my previous experience I never get prompted to create separate partition, but I have seen others use this method in the past, however this should probably be a step in any Linux install wizard.
It should be offered as an option really.
One caveat is that you need to think ahead about how much space you want to assign to each partition. You could end up with your
/home/partition being full while the system partition still has plenty. Or vice versa. You can manually readjust the boundaries but it requires some understanding and can’t be done on the fly by a non-technical user. By contrast if everything’s stored on the same partition you never have to worry about this.You can, by the way, manually recreate this set up even after the initial set up although it will require lots of free space to shuffle around files (or some external storage to temporarily hold them). Basically what you do is create a new empty partition, copy all your
/home/stuff there and then configure your system to always mount that partition as the/home/directory when it boots. Files are just files after all and the operating system doesn’t really care where they come from as long as the content is correct. Once you got it working you can delete the originals and free up the space to be used otherwise.
You can have a separate partition for your files so that you change only your OS. Even with windows. This way you’ll always keep your files and just need to customize your distro and reinstall your apps when you change between distros
Yeah i kept my files on a seperate drive and just wiped the one with the os. for settings i was trying a different distro and desktop enviroment so those where always a bit different and i started from scratch
ive finally settled on arch.
What are you, some kind of Linux prodigy?
arch is basic. It’s just minimalise by default.
It has an amazing wiki, extremely active and helpful user forums, and an installer (i think now) or at least a massively helpfully customised shell for initial setup.
you can install arch and make it look like mint or whatever easily, then the only difference is pacman and the amazing AUR
It’s not like he’s compiling Linux from scratch on day one. Arch is pretty well supported and has a package manager.
Lol i hear this alot about arch users and as a newbie i dont get it. It has been the easiest for me to understand, maybe its the documentation idk i started with endavourOS as well which is a great beginner OS for arch IMO
EndeavorOS has been a great experience for me as well. Also KDE Plasma and now Wayland.
EndeavourOS isn’t pure arch. (I don’t mean this in an elitist way. Use whatever is best for you.) Pure arch doesn’t come with a desktop, so it sucks for new users.
I would agree but most people dont even know that a DE is different then an OS. I do plain arch now i was just saying it was a good starting point
I started with an Arch-based distro and haven’t looked back (EndeavorOS. Though I guess it’s kind of like Arch easy mode). I have a family member that has been daily driving Linux for over a decade, so that was very helpful during the transition. But after a week or two, I haven’t needed his help at all.
My laptop that previously ran Windows 11 is faster than ever.
I was already using Linux a lot of the time when Windows 7 was out, and seeing Microsoft push ads in the start menu, as well as all the other trash and pointless changes that they included with Windows 8+ just confirmed my decision to leave the Windows ecosystem.
Once ALVR becomes even remotly usable on Linux im wiping my windows partition and going full Linux (I’m already using it for everything exept VR)
The next Steam OS device is supposedly aimed at VR. I can’t imagine it launching without ALVR.
It sounds like they have beta support for Linux, so it seems like it’s getting there.
My machine running Win10 LTSC is getting updates until 2029. I also have machines running Debian. There is no way I am installing the regular version of Win11. Its trash made to pander to greedy shareholders. If they take the garbage out for LTSC, I might run it.
Well, your best option is to switch to Linux
As an individual, how do you get the LTSC version legally, and how much does it cost?
Imagine trying to get Windows legally lol. This provides a much better solution.
You can’t unless you form a small group like a non profit organization or a business. You can cheat the system legally going the NPO route as long as you find a way to fulfill legal requirements, but you need friends (it helps to know someone in law school too) and you have to do the legal paperwork and share all the cost. You could make a gamer NPO for example. The price to do this will vary depending on where you live. The price for the volume license can vary a lot depending on where you get it from. Where your group is located effects this. In my local it is about $200-400 USD per person.
Your other alternative is the grey market. Its grey because it is legally ambiguous.
Can you ping me if they tell you? I would also like to know
I guess there is no legal option for individuals because Microsoft only provides LTSC option for orgs. Most guides I saw in the internet just tell you to download some iso from google drive link. You might be able to download it from Microsoft here but I haven’t actually tested it because it asks you to register your info before proceeding. Then you’ll activate it using activator scripts such as MAS or buy some grey market keys on some keys site.
Your PC will soon be be junk if you do not want to try out Linux.
Your PC is already junk if it runs Windows. But you can easily fix that by installing Linux.
Just in case you don’t want to go to the tabloid hell that is the Express Petition Link pirg.org
It’s such an awful site, and always surprises me when I see it being used/shared. Surely when it comes to tech there are better resources than a tabloid for it.
