This reads like the wealthy realizing, in real-time, that the poor can’t spend money they don’t have, more than anything else. Like, no shit, dude.
Use your privileged position to make actual change if you care so much. He doesn’t though, so he’s not going to. Instead, he’ll make sure we all know that we can get an entire combo for only $5. Wow! Truly a hero of the down-trodden, this fucking guy. I’d love to be proved wrong, but we all know where this is headed. His virtue signaling doesn’t change that, just like it doesn’t change that stunt he pulled with potus and all that it so clearly represented. Just more mealy-mouthed lies from another worm in a suit’s all it is.
This reads like the wealthy realizing, in real-time, that the poor can’t spend money they don’t have, more than anything else.
If only someone warned them about this!
Yeah, that’s like, the most classic of Marxism
Pretty sure Adam Smith and Karl Marx both understood that one
Even Henry fucking Ford understood that
And he was a goddamned Nazi.
I think a lot of capitalists would believe the two to be mortal enemies. I suspect that they would enjoy debating their ideas over a cup of joe and tea.
Gone are the days of well educated elites. Now we have the scourge that is the putrified remains of ruling class’s shit.
Enlightened self interest? How about unchecked greed and moral bankruptcy instead?
Yeah, Ford was horrible, but that’s one thing that’s reasonable about Fordism. He knew that if he payed his employees well enough then they’d have money to spend. I don’t know how the idiots who are wealthy today don’t get that, but they assume their wealth is infinite and comes from nothing.
If you’re upper-income, earning over $100,000, things are good … What we see with middle- and lower-income consumers, it’s actually a different story.
When had this ever not been true? What a windbag.
Over $100K ain’t chump change, but that also isn’t the line where “upper income” starts.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/heres-minimum-salary-required-be-considered-upper-class-2025
The Pew Research Center defines upper-income households as having incomes greater than $169,800, based on three-person households. For a household with a single earner and no additional income, that $169,800 is the minimum salary required to be upper class. With two earners, each with the same salary, that minimum would be $84,900 each.
And the difference between that level of “upper class” vs the truly wealthy is insane.
Unless you’re in places like CA or NYC, $170k allows for a very comfortable life. It’s nothing to scoff at and it is absolutely beyond what most people in this country have.
But when thinking of the “upper class,” I think most people picture lush lives. Mansions, yachts, foreign vacations, private schools, house staff, etc.
I don’t think most people imagine someone who lives in a nice suburban neighborhood, saves enough money for retirement that they actually expect to retire in their 60s, and takes a modest vacation every year. But that’s closer to what $170k gets you. It’s comfortable and it’s a life most people would kill to have. But it’s a whole lot closer to a stereotyped “middle class” experience than it is to what most people imagine “upper class” to look like.
I was curious how many U.S. households earn at least $170k, and this website responded to asking about 170k by saying that the 80th percentile is $165,068.
You lost me at “vacation”, like that’s a real thing? (/s)
uh there are still loads of people living on like 30k/yr. you 100k people will fucking live
I never suggested otherwise. I was pointing out how disconnected from reality the really “upper income” CEO is.
This has gotta be some AI drivel. It even tried to say upper class in San Francisco starts at $69k so unless they’re talking about 1930 this is nonsense.
Psst, hey, got a handy hint for you: you can actually raise wages at your business without it being mandated by minimum wage laws.
Paying an employee minimum wages just means you’d pay them less if it was legal.
Yup. The bare minimum because the law says you must.
These fuckers would all keep slaves if it wasn’t illegal. It’s not the ethical and moral disgrace of slave owning that stops them, but the legal aspect of it.
so? that’s why laws exist, right?
it is indicating the employers attitude towards their workers
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say that the CEO of McDonald’s is aware of that.
The rationale here is that if they get minimum wage increasesed, they can raise their workers wages without the reality or perception that they’re ceding a fiduciary advantage to their competitors.
It’s a reality that needs to be addressed. Some major corp had to eventually acknowledge it. Everyone knew it, nobody wanted to be the first to say it.
The first step is admitting there is a problem. The gravity of even this first step, and the fact that it’s from Trump’s fucking gold standard for food and American business, is massive.
Yeah, but you don’t get to keep your job in publicly traded companies if you aren’t hitting the delusional talking points of people bent on burning society and country down so they can get a 9th yacht.
It’s Fordism, the dude literally realizing his employees can’t even eat there. Since most of his employees are on government assistance, it’s true corporate welfare while he pretends he can’t change things.
I hope Boston Dynamics is working on a robot that can operate a guillotine; we have an industrial scale of resetting to get through.
Ummm… Isn’t this already true of McDonald’s? They aren’t at $18 an hour everywhere, but I believe the average is $15+ for starting wages. I would guess they haven’t hired anyone for anything successfully at minimum wage. (Edit: my guess is wrong. Can’t even serve fries with dignity in oklahoma. Crazy.)
This isn’t generosity; several market forces push fast food in this direction. In fact, it makes a lot of sense for this CEO to lobby for it. It will cost competition more than it will cost them.
I took a job at McDonald’s for a bit a few years ago. (Living in a small town in Oklahoma when my car broke down and all I could reasonably walk to was Walmart and McDonald’s) They didn’t start everyone at minimum wage. They started everyone at $8.00/hr. 😞
I did eventually get hired at the Walmart (and eventually move to civilization) at $14/hr.
Lmao “the poors can’t afford our shit… maybe now is the time to advocate for higher minimum wage” fuck off corpo dickheads
Someone actually figured out that a service company competing with a shit ton of other service companies in a service economy needs people that work service jobs to be able to afford their services. They won’t raise wages themselves alone because it’s not like McDonald’s workers will spend the raised wages solely at McDonald’s. They have other essentials and non-Mcdonalds services to pay for. They need every place to have their minimum wage increased and then McDonald’s try to capture a larger portion of everyone’s higher income that exceeds their higher labor cost. Stagnant incomes means non-essential services like McDonald’s get squeezed out
i read that in the calm and convincing voice of cardamon, the 8 y.o. landlord of Bee and Puppycat, who’s the most reasonable character in the entire show.
this has nothing to do with what you said; i just find it amazing how i associate certain voices to certain written pieces of text.
“skipping breakfast or eating at home”
Look, McDonald’s breakfast is pretty damn good, and is super nostalgic. But holy fuck 1030 cutoff and like $6 for a mass produced, frozen sausage patty, English muffin, and a Kraft single is insane.
Also, I just meal prepped us an awesome breakfast for the next two weeks. Like 15lbs of chunked potatoes, mushrooms, onions, hot sausage slices, and bell peppers, seasoned with Chile powder and garlic butter, oven roasty-toasted to golden brown, and tossed into containers in the fridge.
Then in the morning, I plate a big scoop or so of that and microwave it until it’s hot, and fry two eggs with runny yolks, topped with salt and fresh ground black pepper and some hot sauce (like valentina) on the plate. Fork, toast, glass of milk or coffee.
Fuck you, McDonald’s. Like 30 meals-worth was only like $35 bucks, and kicks the shit out of most things.
I look forwards to breakfast everyday now.
I was always told mushrooms have a limited shelf life after being cooked, 3-4 days.
Good point. I should freeze it all in portions, soon, maybe tomorrow.
The worst feeling is getting food poisoning or even just mild gastric upset and not knowing why.
As I get older I have started listening more to the traditional wisdoms and not eating the pizza that has been out of refrigeration for two days.
Coward, real men like their pizza with biofilms
You shouldn’t be keeping food in the fridge for 2 weeks. 4-5 days max. You should immediately freeze it when you cook it. Don’t wait a few days before freezing it.
…might let it cool first, then freeze it!
Definitely need to cool it. Even if not freezing. When I worked in restaurants we had a cooling shelf in the walk-in that we had to stir the 40lb batch of ground beef now and then
Freezing something is cooling something.
It is, but putting a hot thing next to other cold things also warms them, and can allow bacterial growth to start if it’s a large enough heat source. Letting it cool some first avoids that.
Yes, if it’s too hot, it could warm up your fridge or freezer and cause other food to spoil. It’s still best for food safety to be cooling and freezing as fast as possible. Restaurants would use an ice bath to quickly bring the temperature down before putting it into the freezer.
Or just throw it away while also complaining about grocery prices
The guy probably donates to the republicans that help him suppress wages and give him massive tax breaks but offers up this nugget of wisdom the rest of us have lived with for decades now?
It’s expensive. It’s shitty, even for fast food. They let a rapist felon use one of their locations for a photoshoot to improve his image.
Yeah, I’m good on McD’s.
I haven’t gone to a mcdonald’s by choice in almost 4 years now. When my meal rose from 12-13$ to 17-18$ I stopped going. Just for the chuckle I put that same meal into the app, it’s now 22$ after tax. yea no I’ll just go to apple bees or dominos and get more food for less.
I remember the last time I ate at mcds. Summer 2020, middle of move, wrapping up about 2am. mcds is the only thing close that’s open, don’t want to have to drive anywhere. I remember their dollar menu used to be tolerable.
Cost me $10 for the “value meal” of the two tiny wimpy cheeseburgers that used to be a dollar, small fries and small drink. And I had to get the meal because it was cheaper than buying separately like I used to do. That is more than double the price I used to have to pay for that meal.
The last time I was there the dollar menu meal still existed I think. Fairly certain the last time I was there was probably around 2011/2012, to pick up some chicken nuggets for some kids.
The last time I went there regularly, you could buy two full meals for less than 5 bucks (or at least really close to it). And even that was overpriced. This is a place that has insane profit margins, but will yell at employee for putting an extra pickle slice on anything. And there’s some low quality pickles to be honest.
I haven’t been inside a McDonald’s in… 15 years? 20 maybe? When I stopped it was because I realized it’s disgusting food. Since then I’ve added the whole fuck-corpos thing to that.
Yeah, I used to eat the occasional burger there years ago but it got way too expensive for food that is basically poisoning me.
I can get a large pizza from Dominos for less than 10 bucks with a coupon if I pick it up myself.
Agreed, I almost exclusively go to dominos for that carryout deal. I can get 3 meals worth for < 10 or one meals worth for twice the price. It’s a no brainer.
Curious what your meal is. Where I’m at, you can get a large fry and drink for $1.50 altogether, then after that it’s just the cost of the sandwich. If you order 15min ahead of time, you can immediately place another order after you pick up the first for another deal for the sandwich also, so you can get away with a double quarter pounder with cheese, large fry, large drink for $6.50.
You’re describing an elaborate maneuver to get a meal at the price it used to be without “app exclusive deals” etc. The turn to app-ification is shit.
McDonald’s has traded “cheap” and “convenient” for gamification. They’re not the only ones, either
? A deal for a drink and fry for $1.50 if you’re using the app anyway isn’t elaborate, you can order your regular sandwich with that and still only pay $8. So exactly what is going on with the $22 order, I want to know. Just tell me what the order is. Should be simple enough.
Being given virtual coupons daily so you can afford a large double QP with cheese meal for $6.50, which is like 2005 prices, is not gamification. I agree that all of their prices should be less, fuck, I’d have free food offices like the post office where anyone can pick up pre-made hot or cold meals.
But you sound like a boomer or child who can’t take two seconds to think and order, $22 is some nonsense
Having to use an app to order from a drive through restaurant to get the food down to semi-affordable is bullshit and you know it. What about people (for whatever reason) don’t have access to a smartphone with the McDonald’s app?
You’re making a completely different argument, please fuck off. You’re fighting just to fight. Read what I write and if you have beef with corporate McDonald’s, go email them.
The OP said originally:
Just for the chuckle I put that same meal into the app, it’s now 22$ after tax
THIS is what sounds like nonsense to me, if they actually used the app then I wanna know their order and why they didn’t use any deals. It is disingenuous at best, and sounds genuinely stupid to anyone who uses the app.
In no place ever did I argue that the app itself is a good thing or fair. It just isn’t gamification to distribute coupons digitally though. That isn’t what gamification is. The rewards points on the app can be argued as gamification, sure, but we were never discussing those (so see my first sentence). But not the virtual coupons, unless you want to argue that all coupons are gamification, however I don’t think anyone else sees coupons as such. Especially using (1) coupon, there’s no way their order was $22. This is likely a lie. I’m tired of lies. Aren’t you?
It just isn’t gamification to distribute coupons digitally though. That isn’t what gamification is.
I’m not trying to suggest that distributing the coupons digitally is the gamification, I’m arguing that the shift to app only coupons and ‘rewards’ and ‘app exclusive deals’ overall is a form of gamification.
You’re boasting about how you min-maxxed their system, you’re gonna tell me that they didn’t find a way to lure you in with a bit of dopamine when you think you’ve found a hack?
I remember a couple years back the limit to app coupons was once per day and they’ve changed it to 15 minutes. All of these coupon restrictions are arbitrary, they control the whole system.
- 20% off $20
- Free X after Y team won
- Tuesday only deal, free fries friday
A set of rules that can be applied. takes advantage of human desire to optimize. sounds like gamification to me
“Boasting” Jesus, you all cannot argue in good faith.
All of these coupon restrictions are arbitrary, they control the whole system.
Lemmy user discovers what a coupon is, more at 7
Again, none of this is my original argument. Go email McDonalds. My point is that I want to know OP’s order, because no way is a normal order $22 especially with their coupons. All of your weird other arguments and stories are you barking at the wind, because you certainly aren’t discussing the original topic or anything I have said. Ya fucking weirdo
Why would you buy two orders when you only want one? Wouldn’t that literally double the cost, too?
No change in cost? It’s $6.50 altogether - $1.50 for drink and fries, and about $5 for the double QP (40% off deal). The app limits you to one deal per order every 15 minutes. The 15 minute timer starts when the order is placed, however, and they may make your food early but not usually for fries and a drink. So you place the 2nd order after you pick up the first so you can use another deal to order the sandwich, once the timer expires.
Oh I see, you order fries and a drink using a deal to get $1.50, wait fifteen minutes, and then order a burger with another deal?
Right
On first reading that, I thought it was a bit fiddly or sort of defeating the point of “fast”, but actually the more I think about it… Fair enough lol, that’s cheap for that much food
The price per calorie (.004 cents per cal) is pretty good, and you can place the first order while you drive over so you don’t have to wait long. 15min timer starts when order is placed on phone.
Sorry I havent been on lemmy as often so delayed reply.
My standard order is 2 bacon mcdoubles(currently $4.89 a piece), a large fry($4.99) and a lemonade($2.49) or a Mcafe($4.99), so it ends up being $17.29 for my food or 18.64 after tax, or if I wanted a cafe it would be 19.76 or 21.34 after tax.
Just 5 years ago I could get 2 bacon mcdoubles, 2 large fries, a 20 piece nugget and a lemonade for about 18$ (granted that was with a deal).
Back in 2016 I could get that same bacon burger meal above for a little over 12. I can’t warrent the price anymore.
There’s a 20% off orders over $15 deal you qualify for. Making it $15.08 before tax
I use that coupon every once and awhile(when my family decides they want McD), but that still makes it 3$ more than what it used to be, and requires me to use a coupon when I could redeem for points or use something else. And thats also forcing me to use their app. Which the app itself is actual trash now. They removed the search bar for items, they added point expiration(ok this was awhile ago) they now charge you immediately upon placing the order, despite not actually starting the order until your GPS detects you are at the establishment. Theres no ability to cancel and order once placed, regardless if its started being made. Their FAQ page intentionally lies to you telling you that every purchase is final, despite the fact that if they haven’t started making the order, it will eventually refund the purchase. They added a waiver for class actions to the apps TOS meaning if you want to sue you must use third party attribution. It massively harvests data. All for the benefit of paying more for something that I used to be able to spend 12$ not even 10 years ago on.
For context on why the no ability to cancel and lying annoys me: I worked closing shift for years, but it was a 50/50 chance that if I went to mcdonalds (which was the only food joint open when I got out cause everywhere else closed at like 10/1030) it would be packed. What I would do is place the order when I got out, and then look at the establishment on the way through and if it was packed I would cancel the order in the app and just not go there. Due to this change in mechanics, I’m now charged immediately when i place, and not given the ability to cancel. Which would be fine if they actually made the food when they took my money, but they still don’t start making the food until you are there, so the only thing it did was force me to go to a slammed fast food joint, wait 40 minutes instead of my normal 15 for my food(mcdonalds takes forever to cook late at night cause nothing is prepped), and overall make the entire experience less enjoyable from a consumer POV. The screwed up part is, they didn’t tell anyone they were switching to that system. I placed my order like I always did, skipped the restaurant because it was slammed like I sometimes did, and then found I no longer had a cancel button when I got home. So I had to find the FAQ section that moreorless said “all purchases final no refunds”. To which I called the restaurant and they said “oh just wait like 3 or 4 days it’ll refund” and it did.
The end result was the same though regardless. since then they opened a dominos that is open until like 2 AM, and as long as your order is placed by like 8 or 9 PM you can schedule in advance for when i got out. Which made my nightly cost 10$ for a large pizza, or 20 for 2 pizzas and a thing of sticks, which was significantly less than I was paying mcdonalds for a meal that only lasted me that one meal. It’s not worth the money regardless of their deal program anymore.
this is the economy you helped create dickshitter.
As a Shareholder this man needs to be FIRED! If POORS can’t Afford our Meals then we should RAISE the Prices so that NON POORS can Also not Eat our Food because for $15 you can get a MUCH BETTER HAMBURGER Elsewhere! And then we can FIRE Cooks too to save even MORE Money!
Next: replacing the customers with kiosks
Americans tried to escape Fordism, but eventually you need someone to buy the thing you’re trying to sell.
There’s always room in the CEO budget - George Bluth
Get fucked fascist burger “oh no leopards are eating our faces instead of our burgers” hahaha
Seconded lmao
He can just pay them more than minimum wage lol
No, that’s not how the modern economy works. A CEO can’t just pay higher wages randomly. They have to adhere to some invisible laws guiding them towards paying the minimum wages they can get away with. If they pay more, they get fired and replaced with another CEO who pays less again.
The only way to make a company pay more is if it benefits the company or if it’s forced by law, i.e. legally-mandated minimum wage. That, however, is a bad idea too IMHO because for one some businesses who’re just barely profitable today would simply go out of business and people would lose their jobs, and also it would make human employees more expensive and companies would look towards automating their jobs away, because machinery would be more competitive.
IMHO the best solution is to give people money, but not through the workplace, but through a legally-mandated universal basic income that is handed out independent of whether you have a job. Otherwise, you’re forcing people to go to work to be able to live and people would have to suck up whatever bad working conditions their workplace features just to be able to survive, i.e. the same we’re seeing with medical insurance today when it’s tied to work requirements.
I advocate for what I call “Universal Ranked Income”: Everyone gets $10,000 a year by default, while jobs get a fixed amount, no negotiations with a company. it is decided for a job class to be assigned to a rank by the whole nation, regardless of location. Getting an education or holding a job replaces the basic income - $12k to $20k for a student based on grades, $40k if a waiter, $60k or 80k ranks for higher labors, $100k as a CEO. There are absolute income and wealth caps, the taxes also become increasingly higher for each pay grade. After taxes, a store clerk gets $30k, and a CEO is down to $60k.
In effect, that means “best” occupations are only twice the value of a regular job, instead of the insanity we see with CEOs having 1,000x+ the income of a normal human. Only 6x the income of someone who isn’t working. Also, having fixed incomes might help prevent inflation, since corporations have to target job ranks for pricing. UBI also gives everyone benefits, such as basic shelter, generic food, healthcare, a boring car, utilities, and so forth. Money is solely for lifestyle upgrades and luxuries, rather than for buying necessities.
By having universal benefits and a modest amount of money, workers would be able to freely unionize, strike, participate in politics, or avoid bad workplaces. Without being held hostage by capitalism, people can help decide the direction of society without having to sacrifice their wellbeing.
Just capping CEO pay as some percentage as the lowest paid employee at the company would solve some of this; which I think Sanders suggested before. I suppose it would have to extend to every “contractor,” and “gig worker” they use too. The “ranked” income suggestion could cause problems because it ignores supply/demand. I find “ranking” kind of dubious too, because some “unskilled” labor is much harder and undesirable for the worker to do than other work that requires degrees; so these workers should be paid more, IMO. I’m also fine with somewhat predictable inflation; prevents people from hoarding wealth.
Edit: caps would also have to take stocks/equity into account somehow too.
That is why an ERK metric would have to be standardized: how many hours are spent on exertion, what environmental conditions that are involved with that career, the odds of dying horribly, how many years of education to be competent, and so forth. That is why I would consider Lumberjacks should have the highest pay grades - their job is not just requires physical effort, intelligent tree management, and so forth - they also tend to have the highest fatality rate among professions. Trees are unpredictable when they fall down, and a hardhat won’t prevent getting brained.
In any case, I think supply/demand being ignored would be a good thing. It is by manipulating that, companies can exploit their workers. We lose some of capitalism’s efficiency, but it feels like much of it is wasted already - just look at the paychecks of the wealthy. What I am proposing is replacing the distortion presented by excessive wealth and power, with another that balances the scales. What we lose in potential profit, we instead replace with certain stability.
I did write a bit on shares and stuff. Might reply later, right now I have chores and things to do.
Why would I be a CEO for twice the pay as the clerk? I’m sandbagging it all day long at those rates.
World needs a lot more store clerks than CEOs, as it turns out
No doubt there!!
Presumably, because you like the stuff you do. Some people like guiding things, others want to work construction, ect. Pay should just reflect the effort, risk, and knowledge involved with a job. If you don’t want to be a CEO and that isn’t a terrible choice, that is a good thing.
It should be out of passion, not money, that people pursue a particular career.
If pay reflects risk then in your system we need to also actually hold CEOs accountable because in the current system CEOs can do abhorrent shit, get a slap on the wrist, resign with a multi-million-dollar golden parachute and get another exec job a few months later. Let’s have prison sentences for exec misbehaviour. Then I’ll agree that they deserve that danger money.
To that end, I had some thoughts I have from my notes:
-A-
I think leadership pay rank should be decided by workers below the leadership role, unlike most job classes. The wait staff at a restaurant can vote whether their manager gets $40k, $60k, $80k, or even $100k, but that takes away from the proceeds of the restaurant. This means that workers have to decide what is fair and makes sense for their restaurant, else it goes under. Fired or resigned workers can still vote for leadership from their prior workplace, provided they still are receiving retirement benefits. Every day you work at a pay grade for a job, you get a 1:1 ratio of paid sick leave or retirement. This encourages workplaces to focus on the happy retention of veteran workers, rather than churning through “green” staff.
Of course, the workers and managers at that restaurant can cast votes for the leadership above their location - say, for example, the McDonald’s CEO. So the CEO has to convince their workers that they have the best interests of the business in mind, else they lose their pay. Or worse, get expelled from leadership outright.
-B-
While in debt from the collapse of a company, an leader can’t receive their personal income beyond Rank 0’s $10,000. The excess earnings from their income is used to pay for debts. Retirement months and savings are also confiscated to pay for the debt.
One of the elements I have in mind for the proposed system is a hard cap on personal income, wealth, and assets at up to $100,000 each, totaling $300,000. Anything beyond the limits is automatically confiscated by the government. This gives the government incentive to pursue white collar criminality.
Companies, of course, should be considered separate entities - which means that they can’t directly nor indirectly support the lifestyle of a CEO. Companies also have soft limits on wealth and assets that is tied to employee headcount and pay ranks. We will need mechanisms to provide for retirement and AI displacement, too.
I see your thought process here. I am just being pedantic about the 2x based on the amount of stress differences between levels at my company, but we likely share the overall gripe against capitalism. Passionism sounds like a way better economic philosophy.
Why would I be a CEO for twice the pay as the clerk?
because you went to business school and like the challenge of heading a company?
They actually kinda legally DO have to follow fiduciary duty towards their shareholders. If their shareholders were also all the workers of the company, this then wouldn’t be a conflict to pay them more, right? But that’s actually literally socialism and that’s why socialism is a boogeyman
Worker coops are not socialism though. It’s technically capitalism, and it’s not something you’d see Fox railing about.
They just don’t arise much in the current system of stuff.
Worker co-ops are indeed socialism if all the shareholders are also workers, because it’s the workers owning the company (means of production).
This is WISDOM! Because Wages are SO LOW right now there’s NO DANGER of Jobs being Automated away!
Not if he wants to keep his job. The shareholders (hypothetically) control the board, the CEO works for the board.
