For all their “christianity”, republicans in the US are pretty hypocritical.
Jesus actually teached that everybody deserves to get fed and housed. That everybody deserves healthcare. That people should care for other people in their community. That is essentially the core principles of socialism.
More than that, giving food and drink to the hungry and thirsty, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked, caring for the sick, and giving comfort to the imprisoned, is literally the same as doing those things for Jesus Christ, himself, from his perspective. And, moreover, those who do those things will earn their place in heaven, and those who fail to do those things will be eternally damned to hell. It’s not subtextual. It’s not ambiguous and up for interpretation. It says very clearly that Jesus separated those who are going to heaven and hell to either side and the distinction between the groups was how they treated “the least” of his brothers and sisters. Matthew 25:31-46.
So, bad news Christian Republicans. Might want to correct yourself now before it’s too late.
They aren’t. In fact, many of the MAGA Republicans have been pushing their pastors to stop being so “woke” and to teach “real” Christian values, i.e. oppressing people.
The sad thing is that these pastors are giving up their values and acquiescing.
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I don‘t think religion is to blame for what some abuse it for.
I also dont think religion is to be credited for what good some claim it does.
Saints v sinners Saved v Damned Good v Evil Us v Them Worship me or else Believe in me or be thrown into a volcano
Religion can only do ONE THING: Divide
It cannot do anything else and it never has.
From a friend:
Lesson learned long ago.
Me in Lutheran grade school at a conference with my mother and the principal and myself.
Principal: during religious class you’ve been asking a lot of questions that really aren’t appropriate.
I was shocked What do you mean? He explained I was asking things like how did the animals from America all the way across the world get into Noah’s ark? What happened to all the little bugs that live under the rocks and in the ground and stuff like that when it flooded? Why doesn’t a miracle happen today when we could document it in the newspapers with photographs and reporting? Why did All the miracles stop?
Me: but they’re true.
Principal Herb: we understand you’re just being honest but you have to stop asking these questions or we’ll have to expel you.
It’s also just invented stories, and the maga crowd knows that, they are not like in fear of damnation or anything.
Mega hypocrites though of course.
All of that is charity from latin caritas and it’s independent to political/government systems.
Also you can be charitable and NOT go into Haven because you don’t believe in Jesus. Actions are as important as faith.
And Jesus did reach down to the leper, but the leper was not cured, because his monthly deductables did not cover it.
“Get a job, hippy”, proclaimed Peter.
From my purely anecdotal experience, the people who actually want to follow Jesus’s teachings don’t go to church. Says a lot.
go to church
And how many have read at least one testament? Reading is not rare anymore
Didn’t go into so much detail with most people of faith I’ve met, but I know for a fact mum read both the Old and New Testaments and decided she didn’t* (still getting used to it…) want to have anything to do with the Church’s interpretations, because they focused on essentially anything other than empathy and being human.
On the other hand, grandma wasn’t that big on the Bible, but went to church weekly (for as long as she could). She was also domineering, aggressive, two-faced, and manipulative. Also loved to visit the village witch (no, I’m not joking), which was… kinda’ contradictory if one asks me, but nobody did, so that’s that…
Why contradictory? Jesus was a magician, even a necromancer. Turned water into fine wine, etc (I take these things as highly metaphorical, but stress emotions do horrible health damage. Love heals a lot of inner wounds, so maybe some conditions are
motivatedmitigated.Eh, Christian Orthodox traditions frown upon any sort of black magic and such, as Jesus’s divinity is held as THE factor for his performing miracles. Anything which isn’t Jesus-related is considered to stem from Lucifer.
Orthodoxy aims to keep individuals schismed, Jesus aimed to unite them. House divided.
Pretty much! I remember attending Sunday services several times at the behest of my grandmother, and half the time they consisted of mean gossip and fear-mongering.
Edit: of course, I’m not saying all Orthodox priests follow this script, but the Orthodox dogma in general seems to be VERY conducive to it…
It’s not just the Orthodox. It pretty much is the whole Church, which is now and was then very political. Schismed people are malleable and controllable, and expedient for rulers. That is why I read the Ethiopian Bible, complete with mistranslations, then go do weeks or months of tedious research to find the actual translations, and what that meant in the ancient Judaism and its parent religions. It’s also why I feel free to discard anything after Jesus ’ teachings.
You’d be surprised. I read the Bible cover to cover in high school (one of the reasons I no longer have faith), and it amazed me how many people in my life that were also Christian that were entirely unfamiliar with entire books or lessons…
Similar story here except for the longest time I didn’t realize that my fellow church goers didn’t know what the Bible said, and thus couldn’t distinguish between biblical lessons and purely made-up ones
That’s my point, I wouldn’t be surprised, unfortunately
To be fair, I couldn’t get through it either. But I’d guess if one decides to take something as their guidance, it would be a good idea to read it at least once
The bible teaches that slavery is a-okay. It doesn’t surprise me that you’re not faithful anymore. Many other fucked up shit like that. I’m betting that if more people ACTUALLY read the bible, there’d a shitload less christians.
It was okay for everyone at the time, indentured slavery was a thing. That was basically the closest way people in the past got actual job security
It’s also how Jacob got Leah and Rachel.
You are absolutely right. It isn’t complicated. A fundamental principle from the teachings of Jesus is that everyone should share their “wealth” (i.e. food, housing, medical care, etc.) with those in need. No one should ever be hungry, homeless, or sick without treatment. It follows naturally from the idea of loving everyone, without exception.
I’m not going to argue the questions about whether Jesus was divine or even existed. I am simply talking about the philosophy that is presented as his by the Gospels. That is the core of Christianity, but it is ignored by a majority of those who call themselves Christians. The fact that it is difficult and calls for personal sacrifices is not an excuse. He never said that it would be easy.
I accept that Christian principles can be viewed as aspirational goals and not an absolute code of conduct, but that is not what we see in the would-be Christians. They have no interest in working toward those goals.
Roman historians wrote about Jesus (Tacitus), also the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. We can argue about his divinity (I am a believer) but I don’t think we can argue about his existence.
There were others but they are further in time so they may be quoting those two.
I also think the evidence that Jesus existed is compelling, but my point is that it doesn’t matter when you’re talking about the philosophy that is credited to him. Reading the Gospels makes it quite clear that a disturbingly large part of modern Christianity is in opposition to everything he stood for.
Matthew 25:35-40
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
It’s also worth noting that parable of the sheep and the goats was a judgement of nations.
Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
Yeah good stuff. All about equality and egalitarianism.
You can’t claim to be socialist while condoning literal slavery. Sorry.
what I’m amazed by is that those who would benefit most from socialism are the ones who call it “handouts” and vote against it
Ironically, western culture today suffers from one of the same falsehoods that Jesus himself preached against: the idea that poverty is a moral failing. They believe that the rich are wealthy because they’ve “earned it” in some way, and therefore must be morally superior for their work ethic. Conveniently, this also allows the wealthy to keep a clean conscience–if everyone was as “good” as they are, they could all be enjoying this life too.
So with this mindset, all “good” people who are poor are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires–they identify with the rich, who actively abuse and suppress them, because they believe themselves to be part of the same “moral party.”
The Prosperity Gospel folks go a step further and equate wealth and health with the will of god. That being well-off is the direct result of being in god’s good graces. It side-steps observations of financial inequality in the face of moral equality, by hand-waving exceptional wealth as deserved by truly rare and exceptional people. And that conveniently plays off of confusing causation for correlation, so we arrive at “money = godly.”
For the record: I hate that this has a name and it’s a real thing.
Yeah, Joel Osteen has a special place in hell. The boiler room. All the way down.
yhea, because making a society liveable and comfortable for everyone would also include “them”, you don’t want them to be ok.
so better suffer under a system that lets you make “their” world even worse
The Christian ways. Exactly what Christ taught.
the gospel of supply side jesus
The early church was actually kinda communist, having all things in common.
And democratic, one man one vote.
But the man was the priest (or later the pope) and there was only one vote/voice at all.
/s joke
From a theological point of view, Jesus was indeed a socialist. However, he wasn’t a socialist in a Marxist sense, he was a different kind of socialist. Christian socialism actually has a very interesting history that goes back quite back in time.
Exactly. There is a rich tradition of Christian socialism and Christian communism. Even the communist group that Marx and Engels joined up with practiced christian communism and utopian socialism before moving away to a more secular and materialist version. The Communist Manifesto marks this turning point well.
Of course, M&E argue that Christianity is a tool used to blunt the edge of revolutionary socialism and keep it back in line where it can’t do any harm. Like the other forms of socialism (including that dreaded one) that are explicitly designed to recuperate the more radical ideas to a place where they can be more comfortably controlled by the ruling class.
No no no. I see where you went wrong, you were thinking about Jesus from the bible, people dont really believe in him anymore. The Jesus followed today is Supply-Side Jesus, I know it gets confusing since they are both named Jesus.
Wait until the suckers learn that he doesn’t want people to eat animals in the apocryphal writings. But that’s just how Christianity works… Take what fits the bill (Emperor Constantine, Jerome of Stridon, anyone?).
The early Church is recorded as living that way:
"44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 ¶And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, " ( Acts 2:44-46 KJV).
However, tearing a political philosophy away from its associated worldview leads to trouble.
This is one of the things I find strange about the political parties in the U.S. the Republican party, which seems to claim the majority of members who claim to be Christians, largely espouse a capitalist economic system. Capitalism is much more congruent with a Darwinist world view than a Christian one.
Meanwhile, the Democrat party, at least the more progressive wing, espouse more of a socialist system but seemingly oppose Christianity and claim a world view more congruent with a capitalist system.
Yeah that’s interesting. Though I do think the Bible is big enough and vague enough for either tribe to exploit. I’m convinced the Left could have sided with Jesus’s ways of life and been the Christian nation, while the right rejected it.
seemingly oppose Christianity
Christianity doesn’t even believe in Christianity. Behind the scenes in Churches, it’s bitter old people, angry at each other, shaking down patrons for cash, and selling peace to grieving people. Most Democrats want universal healthcare. They want, but are afraid of UBI, and would like it if they could keep their current advantage in the playing field, not becoming poorer while spreading change.
Jesus literally REFUSED to be dragged into ideological politics of his time (John 6:10-15)
He even defied those who tried to put him to test and force a political statement come from him against the current political leader, the Caesar, by trying to have him a forced position on taxes (Mark 12:13-17)
All this makes sense, as he himself said about himself and his followers that they are not part of this world (John 15:19)
He LITERALLY made his teaching revolve around god’s kingdom, not any human ideology (Matthew 6:9, 10)
I mean FUCK, even Satan himself offered him to be the ruler of the whole FUCKING world and he rejected it flat out (John 14:30)
He did care about people, and alleviated the physical suffering of many, but he made clear his and his followers priority should be preaching and teaching God’s word (Mark 1:32-38)
And why wouldn’t he, after all, part of his teachings are that all the world governments and ideologies are to be destroyed. (Revelation 16:14) Every. Single. one.
Yes, including socialism.
So anyone using his teachings to attack whoever and linking him to your ideology, calling him a representative of brand “X” collectivism, should get down from any high horse they think they are, it’s not doing you or them any favor and they clearly don’t know what they are talking about.
Case in point, people talking in here about a hell existing in the bible when there is none. That’s basically all it takes
I think the main point here is not to actually claim that Jesus inspired Marx or something like that, but to counter all the fascists and turbocapitalists using Jesus’s name to justify the horrific things they are doing.
Pretty hard to argue against Jesus not influencing literally everyone in the European continent, even Engels and Marx.
It sounds like you’re using “pay your taxes” to argue that it’s ok by Jesus if you vote for the Republican party, which I think is messed up because he said so much about caring for others.
But did Jesus proscribe government welfare programs? It seems to be that the basis for “Jesus was a socialist”, is based on his teachings on charity. But this can be done by personal charity, and infact those are the examples he gave. Nowhere in the Bible does it say “you should vote for needs-based welfare programs”.
You turn away from Jesus when you ignore the needs of others.
But that’s not socialism, is it?
Also you can try to argue that some methods of welfare distribution are inefficient, but you can’t argue that the needs are being ignored.
You think the GOP looks after people’s needs?! The gop is the party of “f**k you, I’ve got mine”.
100%. I’ve been reading about early christianity for the last 20 months and a major characteristic was shared meals. They were absolutely following a socialist model. But we do capitalism. Woohoo.
But we do capitalism. Woohoo.
yeah, but who will all that wealth go to if not the billionaires?
Do we really know what the real Jesus was like, what his teachings were, and that they are not just fairy tales created by someone? or changed by someone. I don’t think there is/was much socialistic in his teachings.
No sense imagining a hypothetical Jesus, but if you go by what the bible says, Jesus said “it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom is heaven.” He said sell all of your possessions and then follow me. The bible talks about how people in the church shared what they had in common. If someone had a need someone would sell their property and distribute it to those who needed it.
Of course they also thought Jesus was going to return soon, within their lifetimes, and bring a perfect world. Not wait over 2,000 years
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The best records we have of Jesus’ teachings are the gospel books that are typically referenced. And there are enough references to Jesus of Nazareth in other texts to suggest this is what he was like and taught.
Jesus’ teachings on government and social structures are nuanced and difficult to apply to our human structures, because he proposed a government ruled by a perfectly good, benevolent monarch (which, in theory, is a great system if you can guarantee the monarch is really perfectly good). He preached a lot about “the kingdom of God” and contrasted it to how we do things on earth. So the point was never to provide a blueprint of how we should do government, but that there was something above all earthly governments that superceded it all.
Unfortunately, people have used those teachings in very bad ways (the same reasoning that the religious leaders used to kill Jesus). All of that to say–there are a lot of congregations that have more in common with the Pharisees than the early church.
