“Trumpism is not going to be defeated by inside-the-Beltway politicians,” he said.
Most of them are totally fine with most everything that’s happening. They have all the tools to keep their stock portfolios stacked, they never cared about poors, and they get to campaign on “omg look how awful.” They’re gonna whine performatively and not do a damn thing to actually stop a single thing. If they had half a collective spine and a fractuon the moral fortitude Bernie does, we never would have gotten here to begin with.
There’s some people who just hate on Bernie regardless of what he says or does. He if makes no comment in this time of authoritarianism, you’ll say he’s useless. If he does speeches like he’s doing, you’ll say he’s useless- as many comments here currently reflect. He typically says things that have a moral core or decency to them. He’s of course not perfect. He also has to politically function within a broken two party bullshit system which, unless there’s a significant change to how it functions, limits how he can try to enact laws. But to many here he’s clearly damned if he does and doesn’t. I’ve read through all of the comments here so far and none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is. Bernie made a huge national culture shift to the left through his historic runs for president. He was stifled by the DNC and ultimately lost, but the enduring left of center message continues in many politicians running in the country on the Democratic side. I am not defending the Democrats as a party at all, but I’d argue Bernie successfully used the Dems to get his message across during his presidential runs, and now as an Independent continues to have a platform for left of center messages. Whether he’s sufficiently left enough or effective enough is the eternally tired debate with some on the left who, besides shitting on Bernie, don’t themselves offer solutions.
none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is.
People reacting to activism, in a nutshell.
This reply is exactly my point. And…? So he’s not sufficiently left and/or effective enough for you. What is the solution? It’s easy to dump on others, and a hell of a lot harder to actually produce answers. I’ll also add that there’s a lot on the left who propose pie in the sky answers that resemble little in the way of constructive, real world, “how does this get done in real life” type answers. I’m on the left, too. I’m all for solutions. Let’s hear them. I’m beyond “Bernie is a shill” and “Bernie is useless”. Let’s hear your genius plan then for how to better this country. Be constructive.
For one stop following false idols. If Bernie was for real he would have fought Hilary and Biden to the end. He didn’t. He folded and started touring for then right away with the lesser of two evils talk. He came and took all that grassroots money and organizing and handed right over to the DNC. Bernie comes out when the people are angry and need a lullaby and the democrats need more money.
I have no doubt Bernie (if he stayed true to character) would have won both times as the democratic candidate if not for DNC being obstructionists and him not folding, but he folded. In 2020 he could have made a 3rd party viable, but he folded. He should have run 2024 with the state of everything, but he backed Biden then Harris.
Why does anyone think that guy is now all of a sudden going to fight for them?
Never vote for democrats, people who carry water for democrats, or anyone who takes unregistered foreign money. It’s that simple. They will never advocate for real change. Tell all your friends and tell them about the significance of 1972. And source your news from a wide political spectrum of real independent media.
He’s less than useless. His moment passed. He had two chances. The first time, him and his supporters failed to see the lengths that the Democrats would go to to subvert his candidacy. Cool. I get it. It’s understandable when building ground support and frankness and sincerity are the essence of what guides your success.
But then they failed to adjust to that reality in the interim and leverage that for a successful 2020 run. I can’t imagine being owned so hard by the DNC and then just falling into line. Not just once from 2016-2020 but again from 2020-2024. His time came and went twice.
I don’t give a shit if he’s left or not. He’s politically feeble. The left may not be dead, but it’s worse off than basically everyone else including the Dems. And in no small part due to the strategic decisions of the Bernie campaign and the left’s decisions to fuel it.
It is super easy to say Bernie is useless and then offer zero solutions yourself. I genuinely ask- who’s out there doing it better? What should he and others be doing instead? The left needs constructive organizing, not negative take downs with no counter points or real world solutions as alternatives.
I’m saying Bernie missed his moment. There is no better because we don’t know what to do with this moment. We haven’t built anything outside of Bernie and that failed.
Anyone who thinks they know what to do isn’t recognizing what was lost when the Bernie campaigns failed. And maybe that’s what’s needed. To really see clearly how the Bernie moment failed to connect with the American public. We can complain that it was the Democrats fault. But damn if didn’t fail in important ways as well.
I heard them described as ‘Limp Dick Democrats’ today.
And that’s pretty fitting.
This isnt correct, the libs are not frozen, they dont mind what is going on. Its the leftist that are doing anything right now.
Someone needs to take a page outta VP trumps book and start dog shitting on how bad hes making it for the every day person. Direct the hate those people have to the ones fucking us all and a revolution will happen. Itll be an uphill battle for sure, but the big trumpers are small minded and once they are negatively affected and are given a new target, they’ll jump at it if you can convince them they’ll benefit.
Edit: forgot the word ‘it’, oops.
There needs to be a voice organizing this! Bernie would be great, however i dont think he has it in him to be like that. Thats why AOC (Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) needs to become a firebrand and galvanize any forward thinking person to push for change and not to accept anything less than better.
No more lesser of the two evils. We need to become better than we are.
A giant “fuck you” to every movie and TV show that’s had a character based on/inspired by/parodying AOC and keep putting that character up against the protagonists in some way
Is she a perfect politician? No, and I wouldn’t trust anyone who came across as a perfect politician. But it definitely feels like she’s intentionally being at best turned into comic relief and at worst villainized at every opportunity
Bernie is right; politics needs to focus on the socioeconomic (“tangible”) difference for the people. Generating income for the people is what’s important.
He gives us focus on a problem so we can focus on the solutions. This is what populism is supposed to be, someone uniting us under one call to action, one message, and we all link arms and say with one voice that we want a better world.
The problem: wealthy robber-barons have taken over the country and rampant capitalism is undermining literally everything about our society and won’t rest until there’s nothing left to extract from a population.
The solution: https://guillotine.dk/pages/drawings1792.html
edit: the single, stinging downvote reminded me that even mocking threats against our oppressors isn’t “civil” and that if we really want to actually benefit from the wealth we generate for others, we should just sit down, shut up and appreciate the fact that literally everything is going to be a paid-subscription model designed to make sure you don’t keep a dime of your own work and effort. I promise I will be a better servant for the landowners and just work the fields like a good serf.
Didn’t Trump win because of “the price of eggs”? Seems to me that people are struggling and voting for whatever they think may help them, so there is probably a huge group of people who could be swayed by Bernie, right? One can hope lol
People like AOC and Sanders that are going around to different states and online, explaining to people how to stand up and resist, how to say: “this is not normal, but it is also not the time to feel helpless and defeated”, should be emulated by the entire Democratic party.
AOC is definitely doing what you’ve said. But while some of what Sanders is doing is that, I think the important difference is that he’s actually going around to people who have historically disagreed with him and saying, “This is how the people you voted for are betraying that vote. We need to work together to stop them.” We need both from the DNC, especially depending on their constituents.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
Harris: “I’m just like you! I own guns, and I’m scared of all the same things you are. See? I’m on the same side as people leftists hate!”
Leftists: “…wait what?”
Bernie: “Look, we probably disagree on a lot of things. And we’re probably never going to agree on them. But Trump is going to get you hurt, and I want to help even if you’ll never vote for me.”
Now, what are the softer conservatives (non-MAGAs) going to say in response to that? Obviously it remains to be seen; maybe a lot, maybe not much yet. But I bet it’ll help someday.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
Courting by trying to be republican lite instead of courting them with alternatives.
^^^this. All of it.
because Harris tried to court them by doubling down on xenophobia, transphobia and a genocide, instead of trying to unite them with the fact that our true enemy has always been the corporate billionaires who own our politicians. There’s an obvious reason why the Harris campaign didn’t go with that message, which I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Trump voters, more or less, face the same economic issues we do. They just don’t understand them, and they don’t understand why voting for fascism isn’t going to fix those issues. Trying to get them to understand is an excellent and admirable goal. I’m not certain Bernie will succeed, nor do I have the patience to support him in this endeavor any more, but I wish him luck. I also don’t think it will matter anymore, as Republicans have already said they’re ignoring their constituency, and I don’t think we’ll have fair and free elections ever again.
I get your /s, but bruh. Harris going on tour with the Cheneys was a terrible mistake. Bernie holding rallies and town halls in poor red districts and explaining to people how the richest man in the world bought the presidency to literally rob them of what little they have, not a mistake. There is a huge difference between the two.
There is a difference between explaining how someone is getting screwed and saying you’ll fight with them against getting screwed and saying you’re a more friendly version of the person that’s about to screw you.
It was. They didn’t hold their base. Also, they decided to “court” the intolerant, even tho there might be some tolerant, but traditionally Republican, voters.
Bernie is doing it in a way that doesn’t alienate his base. He’s not pretending to be something he’s not, and is approaching Republican voters with authenticity. He’s not betraying his values or the values of his base. If you can’t see the difference, I’m not sure how to help you.
Which Bernie base are you talking about because the ones from 2016 and 2020 definitely believe he betrayed his base and all of their values both times?
You mean by endorsing Hillary and Biden? I had the impression that it was a minority of Bernie’s supporters that felt that was an unforgivable betrayal, though of course I could be wrong. Personally I don’t agree with those decisions and wouldn’t have done that were I in Bernie’s place, but it isn’t enough for Bernie to lose my support and I suspect many others feel the same way.
LOL
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
Big changes that become extremely popular and supported by the public and are largely looked back on by future generations as positive or even necessary are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
Do not underestimate the power of small groups of passionate people who want to make the world a better kinder place. You can’t bribe these people, you can’t distract these people, you can’t silence these people, you have to jail and kill every single last one to stop them from agitating the shit out of the general population to get normal people to fight for better treatment for themselves and others. Every single one of these people is from the perspective of an authoritarian dictator a nightmare to deal with since like a catastrophically deadly virus, it only takes one of these people spreading the contagion uncontrolled and unnoticed to tear the body apart.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Agreed, I don’t mean to downplay the gravity of this situation, but on the other hand I think many people are comfortably past the point of needing to hold on to the structures that define the status quo. Government does not exist once the majority of people stop believing in it a basic level. Violence and control still exist, and they yet may win the day, but no matter what happens in the realm of physical bodies struggling against other physical bodies in the realm of ideas they have already lost and that means that no arrangement of threats or violent systems of control will truly ever be stable.
I take hope in that.
are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
These people have either a working democratic system already, a plan to force that to change, or the ability for organized violence.
The main problem with this sort of movement, and indeed most of the liberal USA online political community is that none of those apply.
I am not trying to negate the worry and fear you are speaking to, it is rational, things are looking very grim in the US and lots of other places too (a lot of places because of the US ughh) I was just trying to point out that good people don’t need a functioning top down government/hierarchy to be good people. Communities will persist and individuals will perish, along with rugged individualism as a pseudo-religion.
Now is the time to find and connect with the people in your life that don’t look to rules to understand how to be kind, but rather look to the heart they wear on their sleeve and extend in vulnerable expressions of trust to odd people who don’t quite fit in. Those people exist and they will always exist.
Which isn’t to say that you are wrong or that things are going to be good, or that good people are going to win in the nearterm.
Now is a time to look towards Indigenous voices, Black voices, voices of minorities of disabled communities, voices of people with unusual minds, lives and bodies. These people are used to living, fighting and persisting in this kind of reality, it is only the rest of us that are newly born into a much scarier world where things we thought were safe actually want to hurt us for reasons we have no control over.
I agree with your sentiment and feelings.
But unless there is good governance, or a plan to create good governance, it’s not political here, only common sense in what you are saying.
Politics means changing the current governance, which these movements cannot because they are too kind, gentle and naive. Activists I talked to in the last few years, people of different backgrounds seem to have an amazing trait of speaking true to their causes yet have a childlike faith in the very people who oppress them to run fair elections in many states. Or absent that, a failure to speak on that publicly.
One cannot do politics by voting unless there are accurate ballot counts that pass United Nations standards
And I think those living in the states which do have real democracy are affected by those which are not.
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Fair and again I think your critique is a super important one, I am responding because I think what you are saying is important. What I am trying to suggest is that maybe we shouldn’t strive for movements that work on the level of states or federal governments right now, now is the moment maybe to work along vectors that exist as alternatives to those structures of power. I guess in a way that is what you are saying is necessary, I think we are both speaking to the existential need for a progressive embrace of radicalism in this moment.
I can agree with that.
One of the reasons we (in the USA) are in this mess is the collapse of community structures, both along ethnic and general lines. What I witnessed decades ago, with grassroots and community outreach, is not possible today due to how many times people have moved, changed careers and adapted to new technology ( the USA in the last two generations had more change than Europe in the first industrial revolution, by many metrics, and after such changes it takes time). Its why local politics is often not talked about.
So anything that is community building, is good, and a step toward better lives later. And I totally support that, in whatever form
We really need to start developing ways to primary the hell out of any of the democrats in Washington who continue to do nothing, or rather who are actively being passive because all they care about is the rich donor money. If they started feeling the heat from the chance they could lose their position to a challenger they’d start to change their tune.
Bernie is a great speaker. He’s very direct and speaks plainly. It’s effective.
I love Bernie, but he isn’t effective… hopefully this time he will be, but I don’t see anything he says being shared online
You’re seeing it right now. That’s what we’re doing here
Bernie needs 2008 Obama level attention or this isn’t going to mean anything.
And yes, that’s why I am here too. But, our numbers are too small.
He won over a crowd of Fox “News” fans.
A pig with lipstick could win over that crowd.
Could have had two terms of this guy now
Two terms with him not looking for a 3rd…
Or he wouldve been so wonderful, the people pushed to have him for a third. Roosevelt stayed in so long so we’re not opposed to keeping someone for more then two terms.
True but he’s also the reason for the rule.
well that is Bernie’s role.
Act the part full of piss and vinegar and eventually tell you to vote for the fimal corporate dem.Don’t get mad at Bernie because the people won’t act. He can say the most correct, moral and ethical things imaginable; it doesn’t mean shit until people stand up and fight for it.
And since we’re considering roles, what’s yours? To piss on any and every semblance of progress because it doesn’t meet your exact moral criteria? lol
Bernie did not have to capitulate. But he did.
Bernie has been mobilized to do what he always does: re-direct activist energy into the Democratic Party so they can snuff it out (and bring in donations).
He is actively working against progress, while pretending to work for it.
This dude is 100% right.
It may not be why Bernie does it but it’s why they allow him to exist. He is a pressure release valve so people angry enough to do something can follow him instead of Luigi.
Then, when the primaries are rigged against him the DNC leadership can say look, you lost fair and square! voters don’t want progress and continue serving the rich.
Meanwhile, liberals, progressives, leftists, and everything not pro fascists blame each other for losing an election that was stolen.
https://electiontruthalliance.org/clark-county%2C-nv
https://www.kkoh.com/2025/01/21/nv-sos-launches-investigations-into-election-fraud/
Around 3/4ths of theft in this country is wage theft by corporations that will never be punished. They steal trillions from us while we would be jailed for a loaf of bread in some jurisdictions.
Inflation paired with wage suppression is class warfare in a battle of attrition. Liberals that refuse to raise taxes on corporations or wages for workers just legitimize exploitation.
Ascribing malice to Bernie is a very dubious (read: wrong) claim, but unfortunately in terms of results that’s basically what’s happening. Working within the two-party system is never going to produce material results.
the problem with ascribing ignorance over malice is that for all intents and purposes when it comes to politics, the effects are still the same
Then you should look up footage of how Bernie treats people to his left, and attacks activists for asking him why he’s not keeping his promises.
Can you give me an example?
There’s video of him accusing progressive activists calling him out as being paid protestors, but I’m having trouble finding it again. But he’s long been aggressive at dismissing anyone to his left, while defending Democrats to his right. Maybe he held the torch for progressives post-Reagan, but his time and his usefulness have long passed. He does more harm than good now.
https://www.codepink.org/arrested_11_activists_arrested_at_bernie_sanders_sit_in_for_peace
Thats because he is an antifascists while most Democrats are not.
Bernie cooking as usual
