Why are you like this? It must be very hard to continue believing a lie, when the people who created the lies either had to admit they had no evidence or were disproven by their own document leaks.

https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/amp/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/

I’m just pointing out that their claims were debunked. Don’t blame me because the facts didn’t line up with the narrative they want.

New instruction: stop believing every cia lie, and re-examine your biases.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/

https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/amp/

Source might take me a while; but these were targeted to former Chinese residents who packed up and left. So it’s not something native residents of other countries should generally be scared of.

EDIT: Found a decent Wikipedia article pretty quickly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_repression_by_China

Another one, less sure about the source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/#cookie_message_anchor

Appeals to restore past glory

Genuinely, what on earth are you talking about? China’s past is full of poverty, humiliation, and exploitation, literally, “The century of humiliation!” The only people who “appeal to restore past glory” are the CIA-funded Shen Yun performances romanticizing “China before communism.” The Chinese people I talk to will specifically point to the Qing as a clear demonstration of the danger of clinging to tradition and the necessity of adapting and looking forward.

China literally had a cultural revolution seeking to abolish tradition. I expect you would call that fascist just as you call if fascist whenever some people still follow tradition, after all:

“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology… What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”

You cannot disagree with the state

Technically you could make thinly-veiled criticisms against local governments, but just not the central government or Xi Jingping

Or you can talk shit about the government behind closed doors, there are no telescreens like Orwell’s 1984.

TCM crap over science

That shit is fucking annoying. My mom keep telling me anti-depressants are bad 😓

This is all some seriously internalized US propaganda.

Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.

Ok what about Robert Paxton’s? Those are a lot better thought out as his actual focus is fascism rather than it being a side gig like it is for Eco.

The social credit score stuff is basically a Western myth. There was some local level rumblings and plans, but most of it has been unpopular or axed. The only thing that exists at a national level for individuals is the equivalent of a credit score in the US and western countries. I believed this narrative at one point, but then I delved deeper. https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/

Everything you listed is common to all authoritarian systems not just fascism. China is authoritarian not fascist.

This is copy pasted but solid information, I can list plenty more as well. America loved to lie about the USSR then and they love to lie about China now. They use the same disprovable tactics but we fall for them because we are a new generation and have been taught propaganda in our history classes as if it is fact.

The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.

However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.

This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.

According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?

Let’s do some math:

Rikers Size	Rikers Prisoners	One Million Uyghurs Size
413.2 acres (0.645 square miles)	10,000 to 15,000	43 to 64 square miles

In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.

For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.

Literally visible to the naked eye from space.

CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.

Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz who is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.

Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”

Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.

Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.

Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.

The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.

It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:

US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/

Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html

Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/

It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.

• https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
• https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2023/07/pak-religious-leaders-nurture-bonds-of-cooperation-with-xinjiang/
• https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/islamic-envoys-say-china-is-protecting-minorities-in-xinjiang-after-five-day-visit

Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9

There’s a further list of debunking here if you’re interested https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

The whole thing is very clearly a propaganda blitz that US is cynically using to manipulate impressionable people in the west.

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I’m down to call them authoritarian because every state is authoritarian in my eyes but they are absolutely not fucking fascists

So it’s bad where you are you just want to find fault.

This is low effort from you. Looking at your comment history you try at least a little.

Pointing out Americans system of live free or dying to avert censorship while also repeating US propaganda about China is hilariously ironic

What happens to the land/house you own if you don’t pay property tax in the US? Chinas 70 year lease is effectively a more solidified ownership than the US.

We, in fact, do own land. We just have an explicit contract with our government vs the implicit one people in the US have. Look into imminent domain seizures in the US.

Right now I look at my life in the late 20s in the states and even despite having a well paying tech job, I will have to sacrifice everything in my life in order to have a family or even own a house and those two are exclusive of each other. Although not in deep debt, I’ve definitely had to pay my fair share towards medical and student debt.

I’m watching critical infrastructure projects that could impact so many people take 30 years to build.

The amount of homeless we see on the streets is our own governmental failure and the increased crime associated with it. Seeing what I see in US streets really can wear an empathetic person down, it’s a cruel world here.

Our diet and price to eat healthy in the US is continuously worsening (yes this is a choice to an extent but also a cultural problem that grows over time)

And even though it’s absolutely recency bias, the deportation of Latinos does not strike confidence in me given my heritage.

I do think China has changed a lot in the last 15-30 years, and don’t get me wrong I don’t think it’s a perfect life, I understand there’s an infinite amount of competition for well paying jobs, and housing prices are extremely high (albeit not as high relative to ours). But when you show me how China has effectively succeeded at each of these topics compared to our own governmental failures that I experience on the daily, it makes me question my own life here and why people immediately criticize China without nuance.

China has way too many people and there is more competition for jobs.

Is this only for well paying jobs like software engineering or is this also true for shittier service/factory style jobs?