• surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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    23 days ago

    “They fell for the con” seems harsh and inaccurate.

    Everyone knew Trump was lying with his promises. But Dems couldn’t even be bothered to offer empty promises. If your only options are someone who openly doesn’t give a shit about you, or someone who pretends to (even though they’re probably lying), you’re better off taking a chance on the lie.

    • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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      23 days ago

      If a con man offers me the world, and you offer me nothing, and I listen to the con man… I’ve still fallen for the con, my guy.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        Not really. You just chose the least shitty option you were being forced into.

        But I understand acknowledging that would interfere with your ability to feel smug.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            Because it’s a binary choice where the other option is someone not even willing to pretend they’ll help you.

            • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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              23 days ago

              Still a bad option.

              The person who is upfront about it can be reasoned with. The liar is never going to be trustworthy.

              If the guy at the train station lies and tells me that the train will be here in an hour I waste an hour. If he tells me the train has been cancelled I know to make another plan.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                23 days ago

                A better example would be a waiter who spits on your sandwich in the kitchen vs one who’ll spit on it after they drop it off at the table.

                Your best choice is to burn down the diner.

                • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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                  23 days ago

                  Nothing says ‘privilege’ more than people who talk about burning the system down.

                  It’s like the guys who have never been in a fight are always ready to see other people go at it.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    I don’t know. Expecting people to go along with a system that’s literally killing them seems way more privileged. You must not be suffering under the current status quo.

                • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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                  23 days ago

                  Even your own example doesn’t prove your point. I’d rather someone spit in my food where I can see it and ignore it.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    Actually, that’s exactly my point. Blue MAGA acts shocked people don’t want to bury their heads in the sand with them, and expects the rest of us to stop complaining and just eat the spit.

        • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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          23 days ago

          What? How am I being smug by just pointing out that falling for a con is… Falling for a con? Trump is a well, well, well documented con man. Like… Maybe the most well documented con man ever. It’s really hard to feel bad for anyone who voted for him getting screwed over.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            Love the ‘how am I being smug?!’ followed by the classic smug victim blaming.

            Both Dem and GOP supporters are being conned. Neither of you are in a position to be pointing fingers at the other.

            • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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              23 days ago

              To be clear, I don’t blame people who fall for scams or cons. I did say it’s hard to feel bad for Trump voters specifically, but that’s a pretty special circumstance as I tried to describe.

              All I said was that falling for a scam or con is falling for a scam or con.

                • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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                  22 days ago

                  Why do you presume to know who I voted for? Or that I’m even American?

                  I really don’t think we share the same definition of smug. Have a good day.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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      23 days ago

      Except they had some coherent and sound policy? A lot if it is way too status quo or populist when that clearly isnt working.

      Trump has some sound policy too (as much as Lemmy would hate to admit it), but its also filled with obvious leapord face eating proposals, even if you 100% believe him.

      And its not like he hasn’t been president already, albeit much more restrained before.

      Thats the most baffling thing about Trump support to me… There’s this hope, this fantasy he’s the change we need when we have no other choice, when that is absolutely not true if you look at his cabinet, history, and policy. He’s a grifter even if you look at hus history before politics. Why does he get the benefit of the doubt?

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        What was their coherent and sound policy?

        Dems just still believe they’re entitled to the working class vote, and aren’t willing to offer anything to earn it. Still the failed Clinton strategy of skipping them over, but counting on their votes anyway.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          Uh, how about not giving the rich massive tax breaks and rocketing the national debt even higher so quickly? Anti inflation measures, support for higher wages? Actual support for unions, as tepid as it may be? Attempts to relieve debt? Let’s start with that.

          What exactly do you think Trump is even theoretically bringing that Dems aren’t?

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            The Dems were not offering anything like that. You’re pulling that out of your ass.

            I didn’t say Trump was better. The Dems and GOP are two sides of the same fascist coin. We have to defeat them both.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                23 days ago

                No, it wasn’t. There were some vague and empty promises, but that kinda thing is a hard sell when you’re already in power and not doing those things.

                • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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                  23 days ago

                  Wait, so now they have “vague and empty promises”? I thought they couldn’t even be bothered to lie, and had nothing to offer, making a con-man preferable?

                  I kinda feel like you’re just more mad at Democrats than you are at Republicans who are actually doing bad things.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    Yes, I am more mad at Democrats than Republicans. They’re both doing bad things, but the Dems are the ones trying to pretend they’re not and claiming they represent our interests. Doing what Dems have always done, and absorbing leftist energy to actively prevent change.

                • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
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                  23 days ago

                  Yeah it was funny to me having kamala literally copy-paste biden’s 2nd term agenda and then talk about the things she’d do when she’s in charge.

                  I’m like, yo aren’t you VP? Maybe get bidens ear, get started now, put some skin in the game?

                  When it’s time to mend the social safety net, Dems have this ongoing act, like they’re always on the campaign and not in power.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    Because the party has become completely focused on high dollar salaries for the consultants running these campaigns. And they wonder why that doesn’t translate into victory.

        • NounsAndWords@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/04/26/executive-order-on-worker-organizing-and-empowerment/

          Do executive orders count?

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_the_Right_to_Organize_Act

          What about pro-union congressional bills that are being blocked by Republicans?

          What exactly is the Republican coherent and sound policy? Because the one I’ve seen is largely union-busting and cutting regulations on businesses. Democrats have definitely failed to show the work they’re doing and show how Republicans have fought tooth and nail to block and roll back worker protections, but it is entirely disingenuous to claim Dems “openly don’t give a shit about you.”

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            When did I imply Republicans have anything better? Gonna blow your mind here: criticism of Dems is not support of Republicans.

            No, I’m not satisfied with symbolic efforts from Dems. Clearly, most of the country isn’t either.

            • NounsAndWords@lemmy.world
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              23 days ago

              If your only options are someone who openly doesn’t give a shit about you, or someone who pretends to (even though they’re probably lying), you’re better off taking a chance on the lie.

              There. Where you say republicans are probably lying but you’re better off taking a chance on a lie. If you hold both parties to a different standard to the detriment of one, you’re supporting one of those parties over the other.

    • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
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      23 days ago

      You’re right critical thinking is hard for people, but it’s still a con and they still fell for it.

      If you know the political process is filled with liars and your only options is someone that doesn’t want to make overblown statements that are clearly lies and someone that does lie (you know this because of his past lies) then you should have picked the person that lies the least.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        Not necessarily. They didn’t need to believe it in order to consider it the least bad option.

        Dems are still riding with the Clinton “basket of deplorables” failed strategy. They openly and outwardly despise any voters that aren’t white collar liberals. And y’all have the gall to criticize these people for not jumping onboard with a party who proudly hates them. Unbelievably obtuse.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          That’s not the same thing as saying that republicans are better because they’re lying to you while giving you worse policies lmao

            • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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              23 days ago

              “you’re better off taking a chance on the lie.”

              I guess you didn’t technically say that republicans have worse policies, but… please don’t tell me you believe they’re even comparable

                • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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                  23 days ago

                  Unless you care about literally nothing else, that doesn’t make the two parties equal. Trump is more enthusiastic about that anyways and has actively sabotaged Biden’s ceasefire attempts and said he would destroy Palestine entirely. It’s pretty close though tbh considering Biden keeps sending weapons. I wish the dems would just man up and back out of there

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    I care about plenty of other things, too. The climate, income inequality, homelessness rates, hunger rates, corporate greed, the out of control military industrial complex, immigration reform, prison industrial complex, etc. The Dems and GOP are equal on all of that. Genocide is just the worst thing imaginable, so it’s the subject most worth mentioning.

                    Dems might have slightly better rhetoric, but people can’t eat promises.

    • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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      23 days ago

      Wile not “both sides” as one side is obviously worse, the democrats did actively work against unions during Biden’s presidency. And sure Biden made talk about passing PRO, which he failed to do, but he also forced terms on the rail unions, and made it illegal for them to strike, and thus making the rail union forever powerless to fight for its members, and dooming it to obsolescence

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        Which side is obviously worse?

        I thought we established long ago that committing a genocide is the worst thing anyone can possibly do. And they both are doing that.

            • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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              23 days ago

              I ain’t going to bother trying to defend democrats from how terrible they are, but it’s no contest as to which is worse objectively. It’s not even close.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                23 days ago

                Depends if you judge politicians by their promises or their actions.

                I judge their actions, and the parties are nearly identical by that measure.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                    23 days ago

                    You’re supposed to be doing that for all parties and politicians. This is what makes you an easy mark for the Dems.

    • sith@lemmy.zip
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      22 days ago

      Yep. The libs here just don’t have a clue. Probably because they only want idealism, when they should study materialism and evolutionary game theory. Or human nature in general.