- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- privacy@programming.dev
Pull request #10974 introduces the @bitwarden/sdk-internal dependency which is needed to build the desktop client. The dependency contains a licence statement which contains the following clause:
You may not use this SDK to develop applications for use with software other than Bitwarden (including non-compatible implementations of Bitwarden) or to develop another SDK.
This violates freedom 0.
It is not possible to build desktop-v2024.10.0 (or, likely, current master) without removing this dependency.
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Does anyone have experience with keyguard? From a cursory glance, this + vaultwarden seems like a good alternative…
I have some! I use a self hosted vaultwarden and just two days ago I saw and installed KeyGuard out of curiosity. So far, I can say KeyGuard is a nicer looking and feeling app and… it works. So as long as their intentions are pure, you can use “bitwarden” without using any of their software or infrastructure.
Just tried it, and it seems you can’t edit or add items without a premium subscription??
Or am I missing something?
Edit: Apparently only when installing via the Play Store. Very weird decision.
Ah, yeah, I installed it from their github with obtainium. I think open source/libre app that charges people to install with the play store is a model a few others have tried as well.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to be paid, but a mandatory subscription when using the most common install method does irk me the wrong way
@bitwarden bitwarden locked and limited conversation to collaborators
They also locked the thread 16 hours ago (as of writing this comment), with no explanation.
The explanation is the second-to-last comment before it got locked. 🤦
This hysteria is really stupid.
ITT: A lot of conspiracy theories without much (any?) evidence. Let’s see if they resolve the dependency issue before wet get our pitchforks, shall we?
I don’t know what the heck you’re talking about.
I see overwhelming evidence that they have intentionally made parts of the clients’ code proprietary. You can check the client code yourself (for now anyways) and convince yourself of the fact that the bw SDK code is in indeed integrated into the bitwarden clients’ code base.
This is the license text of the sdk-internal used in 2024.10.1 (0.1.3): https://github.com/bitwarden/sdk/blob/16a8496bfb62d78c9692a44515f63e73248e7aab/LICENSE
You can read that license text to convince yourself of the fact that it is absolutely proprietary.
Here is also the CTO and founder of Bitwarden admitting that they have done it and are also attempting to subvert the GPL in using sdk-internal:
https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/issues/11611#issuecomment-2424865225
Hi @brjsp, Thanks for sharing your concerns here. We have been progressing use of our SDK in more use cases for our clients. However, our goal is to make sure that the SDK is used in a way that maintains GPL compatibility.
- the SDK and the client are two separate programs
- code for each program is in separate repositories
- the fact that the two programs communicate using standard protocols does not mean they are one program for purposes of GPLv3
Being able to build the app as you are trying to do here is an issue we plan to resolve and is merely a bug.
(Emphasis mine.)
The fluff about the ability to even build the app is secondary, the primary issue is that the Bitwarden clients are no longer free software. That fact is irrefutable.
That would be an issue if they were not open source. Them making their own SDK proprietary is not a pitchfork issue.
Open source !== Non-proprietary
Nobody here talks about keepassxc ? I’ve been using it for almost a decade, it can be used with sync tools to be shared, I’ve managed to have db keepass file opened on several computers and it did work well. Gplv3 here https://keepassxc.org/
Keepass isn’t really in the same category of product as Bitwarden. The interesting part of bitwarden is that it’s ran as a service.
Bitwarden can’t be compared to KeePassXC. Bitwarden is fundamentally built around a sync server, whereas KeePass is meant to exclusively operate locally. These are two very different fundamental concepts for, you know, how to actually store and access your passwords.
I just switched over. Honestly, I like it even more than Bitwarden. Then again, I don’t sync my stuff between devices because I’m old I guess. Lol. It makes it easier to switch because I don’t have to deal with stuff like Syncthing.
No Android app though?
Ty, exploring alternative tools. I really don’t like last pass due to their lax data security and 1 Password for the same reason.
Bitwarden still earns my $10/year.
Damn, I just switched from Bitwarden to KeepPassXC.
Clearly just in time. Lol.
A few questions out of ignorance. How different is this to gitlab’s open core model? Is this a permanent change? Is the involvement of investors the root of this? Are we overreacting as it doesn’t meet our strict definition of foss?
How different is this to gitlab’s open core model?
That’s a really good question that I don’t immediately have a satisfying answer to.
There are some differences I can point out though:
- Gitlab has demonstrated its commitment to keep the core of their product, though limited in features, free and open source. As of now, BW’s clients cannot even be compiled without the proprietary SDK anymore.
- Gitlab was always a permissive license (MIT) and never attempted to subvert its original license terms
- Gitlab-EE’s “closed” core is actually quite open (go read the source code) but still squarely in the proprietary camp because it requires you to have a valid subscription to exercise your freedoms.
Is this a permanent change?
It’d be quite trivial for them to do in technical terms: Either license the SDK as GPL or stop using it in the clients.
I don’t see a reason for them to roll it back though. This was decided long ago and they explicitly decided to stray away from the status quo and make it closed source.
The only thing I could see making them revert this would be public pressure. If they lose a sufficient amount of subscribers over this, that might make them reconsider. Honestly though by that time, the cat’s out of the bag and all the public goodwill and trust is gone.
It’s honestly a bafflingly bad decision from even just a business perspective. I predict they’ll lose at least 20% but likely 30-50% of their subscribers to this.Is the involvement of investors the root of this?
I find that likely. If it stinks, it’s usually something stinky’s fault.
Are we overreacting as it doesn’t meet our strict definition of foss?
They are attempting to subvert one of the FOSS licenses held in the highest regard. You cannot really be much more anti than this.
An “honest” switch to completely proprietary licenses with a public announcement months prior would have been easier to accept.
Gitlab has demonstrated its commitment to keep the core of their product, though limited in features, free and open source. As of now, BW’s clients cannot even be compiled without the proprietary SDK anymore.
None of that makes Bitwarden neither free nor open source.
I get that you’re angry that they made part of the code proprietary, but it’s still free as in beer and open source.
Not only that, they specifically state this is a bug which will be addressed.
If this is not resolved I will likely switch to another service. Free software compatibility was the main reason I paid for bitwarden over its competitors.
What does this change for you?
Seems to change nothing for all my devices which is a cheap offering at $10/year.
The direction that the company is taking. Clearly that Bitwarden feels like other open source projects are diverting revenue from them.
That’s a small step towards enshittification. They close this part of the software, then another part until slowly it is closed source.
We’ve seen this move over and over.
Stopping your business with Bitwarden over that issue sends a message that many customers don’t find this acceptable. If enough people stop using their service, they have a chance to backtrack. But even then, if they’ve done it once, they’ll try it again.
Your current price is 10$/year now. But the moment a company tries to cull any open source of their project is the moment they try to cash it in.
That’s a small step towards enshittification
Going away from opensource model that you built your business over is a pretty big step.
I will change for sure, as well. Let’s see.
i was about to replace my glorified encrypted text file for a password manager. guess relying on 3rd parties in a late-stage capitalist world is not a viable alternative.
ill stay with my encrypted text file until they privatize encryption. by then ill probably be carving my passwords out on stone. or burning down the servers of these fucking pigs trying to make us identify ourselves for everything on the internet now.
KeePassXC is pretty amazing. :)
can u selfhost it?
It’s basically your encrypted file, you are to handle synchronisation yourself.
I would assume so. According to the page Documentation and FAQ,
Why is there no cloud synchronization feature built into KeePassXC?
Cloud synchronization with Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, ownCloud, Nextcloud etc. can be easily accomplished by simply storing your KeePassXC database inside your shared cloud folder and letting your synchronization service of choice do the rest. We prefer this approach, because it is simple, not tied to a specific cloud provider and keeps the complexity of our code low.
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Looks like I might be moving to Proton Pass after all! I’ll give them some time to see what they do about this, but will happily give my money to someone else and migrate friends/family as well.
There’s a lot of drama in that Issue, and then, at the very end:
Thanks for sharing your concerns here. We have been progressing use of our SDK in more use cases for our clients. However, our goal is to make sure that the SDK is used in a way that maintains GPL compatibility.
the SDK and the client are two separate programs
code for each program is in separate repositories
the fact that the two programs communicate using standard protocols does not mean they are one program for purposes of GPLv3Being able to build the app as you are trying to do here is an issue we plan to resolve and is merely a bug.
Um can someone translate what this means?
They’re trying to argue legal technicalities because acknowledging that they’re trying to reduce compatibility with servers like vaultwarden would be bad PR.
Per their new license, anyone that uses their SDK to build a client cannot say, “this is for Bitwarden and compatible servers like vaultwarden”. They cannot support those other servers, per their license. Anyone that gets suckered into using their SDK now becomes a force against alternative implementations.
They claim the SDK and Bitwarden are completely separate, so Bitwarden is still open source.
The fact that the current version of Bitwarden doesn’t work at all without the SDK is just a bug, which will be fixed Soon™
Also important to note is that they are creating the same license problems in other places.
They broke f-droid builds 3 months ago and try to navigate users to their own repo now. Their own repo ofc not applying foss requirements, because the android app is no longer foss as of 3 months ago. Now the f-droid version is slowly going out of date, which creates a nice security risk for no reason other than their greed.
Apparently they also closed-sourced their “convenient” npm Bitwarden module 2 months ago, using some hard to follow reference to a license file. Previously it was marked GPL3.
further translating it: they are closing it down but trying to make it look like they arent
Iirc, once reported, the project has 30 days to remedy or they are in violation of the license. They can’t even release a new version with a different license since this version is out under the GPL.
Given that they own all of the source code (CLA is required to contribute), they can just stop offering the code under GPL, unless they happen to have any GPL dependencies not under their control, in which case this would not be viable.
Switching licenses to future versions doesn’t invalidate previous versions released under GPL.
I’m not a lawyer but I deal with OSS licenses for work and I don’t know if there’s ever been a case like this, that I can think of anyway.
Their previous versions, still being under the GPL, would require them to release a change to make it usable on desktops. Again, I’m not a lawyer here but there is a lot of case law behind the GPL and I think the user who made the issue could take them to court to force them to make the change if they don’t respond in 30 days.
It means previous versions remain open, but ownership trumps any license restrictions.
They don’t license the code to themselves, they just have it. And if they want to close source it they can.GPLv3 and copyleft only work to protect against non-owners doing that. CLA means a project is not strongly open source, the company doing that CLA can rugpull at any time.
The fact a project even has a CLA should be extremely suspect, because this is exactly what you would use that for. To ensure you can harvest contributions and none of those contributers will stand in your way when you later burn the bridges and enshittify.
What is CLA in this context?
The main program is open, but the development tools are not
plan to resolve
timeline unknown, maybe 2124
There is always a very vocal minority itching to cause as much drama as possible. It’s very discouraging to see in general. I agree with and want more FOSS, but I’m not sure I’d ever consider making it myself; it’s not worth extra stress personally.
Ever since BitWarden got mired in capitalism, I’ve been dreading that something like this would happen.
Thanks for sharing your concerns here. We have been progressing use of our SDK in more use cases for our clients. However, our goal is to make sure that the SDK is used in a way that maintains GPL compatibility.
- the SDK and the client are two separate programs
- code for each program is in separate repositories
- the fact that the two programs communicate using standard protocols does not mean they are one program for purposes of GPLv3
Being able to build the app as you are trying to do here is an issue we plan to resolve and is merely a bug.
I.e. “fuck you and your foss”
Pretty much the opposite
I doubt it. What’ll probably happen is them moving more and more of the logic into the SDK (or adding the back-end of new features there), and leaving the original app to be more or less an agpl-licensed ui, while the actual logic becomes source-available. Soo, somewhat red-hat-esque vibes: no-no, we don’t violate no stupid licenses, we just completely go against their spirit.
go against their spirit
I think this is more of a failure of the license itself. It’s not a good look to allow something explicitly and then go “no not like that!”
I’m not sure you can classify this as a failure, as explicitly prohibiting interfacing with non-agpl stuff would greatly limit the amount of stuff you can license under it, perhaps up to the point of making it generally unusable. As for “not like that”… Well, yeah. But you can’t deny it’s misleading, right? Free software kinda implies you can modify it whatever you want, and if it’s a free ui relying on a source-available middleware… Turns out, not so much.
Although, a posdible solution would be require explicitly mentioning if you’re basically a front-end for something; but I’m not sure if it can be legally distinguished from the rest of use-cases.
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Uh oh. Android user here. Time to jump ship? If so…proton??
As with all of their services, the back-end is closed-source.
For the purposes of user freedom, it’s not that critical as the back-end merely facilitates the storage and synchronisation of encrypted data. This is different from the bitwarden case where they’re now including freedom disrespecting code into the most critical part of their software: the clients which handle the unencrypted data.
Fact of the matter remains however that Proton Pass restricts your freedom by not allowing you to self-host it.If you are fine with not being able to self-host, I’d say it’s a good option though. Doubly so if you are already a customer of their other services.
Proton has demonstrated time and time again to act for the benefit of its users in the past decade and I see no incentive for them to stop doing so. I’d estimate a low risk of enshittification for Proton which is high praise for a company of their size.
Okay, we’ll I’ve been using vaultwarden. When should I switch to something new, and what’s a good alternative?
Does this affect valtwarden?
Yes because it is about, ultimately, making the major clients incompatible with vaultwarden on both a legal and technical level.
A likely outcome if they don’t reverse course is a split where FOSS Nerfs fork the clients and have to maintain their own versions. That’s the outcome Bitwarden wants. This reeks of a bazinga, “how dare they benefit from our work and take our users”, which is hilarious for a FOSS ecosystem that almost universally benefits corporations with free labor.
Vaultwarden is only the server, no? So any clients that you use to access Vaultwarden are built and maintained by 8bit solutions a.k.a. Bitwarden, including the desktop client that is the subject of this post.
