It was nice to see the World News community finally realize that the DNC has been doing nothing but shooting themselves in the foot for a year.
Maybe this community will finally catch on and connect the dots between a random ass 3rd party getting blamed for stealing votes away from the Democrats, and Democrats not actually meeting the core demands of their constituency.
Or maybe not…
Maybe someday we’ll have people blame the DNC for choosing to back unpopular opinions/policies losing the popularity contest against “Literal Evil Fascist with the Playbook of How To Do Evil 101, but Fox News said it’s cool”.
But instead we need a new scapegoat for when Greens come in 4th place to the Libertarian’s “I just wanna date this 14 year old with my rifle and say the N-word out loud without backlash.”
Its the genocide thats the problem-- Steins numbres are small… And Jill Stein owes the dems nothing, she can run if she wants. Thats what democracy is about. So the new republic can suck it.
Jesus fucking Christ. You win by getting more people to vote for you! If Harris loses, it will be her own fault.
It’s not about Harris losing, it’s about Trump winning. You’re either pragmatic and know that Harris is the only chance we have to prevent that, or you’re privileged as shit and know that you’ll survive the rise of Fascism if he wins. You definitely know you won’t be one of the millions of people he oppresses if your priority is anything but keeping Trump out of the White House.
If Kamala loses it will be her fault. The fact that we’ll all suffer for it is beside the point. You might think it’s irrelevant, but establishment Dems lose over and over again by ignoring what the left tells them, then they turn around and blame the left. Continuing to indulge their delusions just leads to more losses.
This really isn’t about Trump anymore. The Republican party has been transformed, and every single Republican candidate for the foreseeable future is going to be just as much a threat to democracy as Trump, if not more so.
The Greens hurt Democrats far less than the libertarians hurt Republicans, and neither is going anywhere. Democrats need to focus on being better candidates, not finding someone else to blame.
I’m not sure who she’s gonna actually end up hurting this time. I gotta imagine anyone who falls for the Jill Stein shtick is likely to fall for Trump’s too.
If Trump wins it’s not Jill Stein’s fault you psycho.
Technically you’re right. But it absolutely will be the non-voters fault, and considering that a vote for Shill Stein is the same thing as throwing away a vote for no good reason…
It’s say it’ll be her supports fault.
Or its an easy group to blam a cause they are visible and with same fancy logic and math you can pretend their votes belonged to the Democratic Party. You can’t just assume they would have voted that way. They can even write in. Non voters are an issue but blaming another group is liking blaming Jews because they work at the bank you think took your house.
Its crazy conspiracy and emotional logic at best.
OK so we are picking the new scape goat this election cycle?
She picked herself. Let’s not victimize Shill Stein here. Her lack of policy, and unwillingness to lift a finger three out of every four years really helped her solidify her role as the source of her own problems.
Thankfully, and with additional hope- she’s done and we won’t have to hear from her or her annoying fan club after November.
we won’t have to hear from her
Hopefully not even her shitty folk rock albums.
I’m not even going to look that up.
Wow its not the youth and progressives this time, I’m stoked. Yeah um, fuck those Stein voters they are the worst. Dont they know how democracy works?
They don’t. I’ve been trying to explain basic political concepts to my older cousin for 20 years and he’s been voting for Jill Stein at every turn, and then pretended to be disappointed that a republican won as a nepobaby landlord that hates paying taxes.
People who will vote for a Russian sponsored Republican spoiler are too stupid to be trusted with anything. Or they are morally bankrupt and smart enough to hide it.
If Trump wins, it might not literally be your fault, but we’ll remember that you were okay taking the risk of another Trump term just to cast a protest vote. We’ll remember you aren’t an ally to anti-fascism.
You have the right to vote however you want to, but when you tell us that you plan to try to throw the election in Trump’s favor, we’ll be listening and we’ll believe you. And if you get what you want, we won’t forgive you.
You can write your forgiveness down on a peice of paper and fold it till its all sharp corners and jam it, for all any of us care
The dems need progressive votes to win much of anything, whether they will admit it or not, the numbers dont lie. Pushing to the right so you can get “independent” voters has never worked, but the dems try it in every election. So you should be asking if progressives will forgive you. If Harrs didnt take AIPAC bribes she’d already have the numbers to win. But she took the dirty foreign fascist bribes so here we are. Try the carrot for a change. Your stick is laughable.
Hey I didn’t say I was voting for her. I’m just pointing out the emotional animosity of finding an easy scapegoat. This is literally proving my point that it’s just an emotional answer.
You just want someone to blame.
Democracy, where you have freedom of speech except if you speak about Israel, or your own country war crimes, or your own country foreign policy, or trying to run for office if you are not Democrat or Republicans.
It seems no one is keeping Shill Stein from exercising her freedom of speech.
Jill Stein is polling at litterally less than measurable numbers.
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3913&stream=top
“Undecided” represents at least twice the voters Stein appears to be garnering.
What kills me about this is if the neolib dems had taken just a moment at the primary to cast their vote for undecided to show the Dem leadership that genocide was a non negotiable issue they should do the right thing on, it might have worked.
It would have cost absolutely nothing, and we might be costing to an easy victory right now. Instead we’re here.100%
But look around this place. Its still the same Blue MAGA here trying to bash peoples head in (now for Harris, then for Biden) as before.
The same people that would demand we drive off a cliff with Biden at the wheel are the ones insisting that we need to support Harris in-spite of her genocide policy, instead of trying to move her on the issue. Like we literally need her to fix her policy or she literally can’t get elected. And its self-evident in the data we have. She’s now losing, not even accounting for the structural biases we should very much expect from RW fuckery and the EC.
Like just come out against genocide. Its fucking easy. It can be a fucking lie. Just fucking lie to us so we can convince enough people to get you elected Harris.
Man. I wonder if we are going to lose. Its definitely possible at this point, but hard to imagine. How awful are our dem candidates to lose to an insane peice of human trash like Trump
People just want someone to be mad at in case Harris loses
Because Harris losing simply could not be her own fault, if it happened
There is a world in which it’s not her fault or anyone else’s fault. You can run a flawless campaign and lose for reasons beyond your control, or any other single stakeholder’s control.
Do you think Harris is running a flawless campaign?
Goodness no.
Yeah, Picard Principle at play here. You can commit no mistakes and still lose. I can argue that there are a few things that Harris could do better. Americans are stupid and cruel as a whole…you tact too hard to the Left, you piss off the moderate voters and they stay home, vote Third Party, or worse, vote Trump, and if you tact too hard to the Right, you piss off liberal voters, and while they are less likely to vote Trump, you still lose their votes.
Man, we shouldn’t even be having this conversation at all. Trump is a convicted felon. He should be in jail right now, getting ready for the next trials.
I’m amazed that anyone is still buying the “moderate voters” bullshit. Just try to picture an actual human being who’s politics have left them scratching their heads between Harris and Trump. “If only Harris would do a little more for corporations. Oh well, I guess I’ll stick with the racist orange insurrectionist.”
It’s not about moderate voters. If anything it’s about the median voter, but that’s a very different animal. The median voter in this country is wacky as fuck with political opinions that are all over the place. The one thing they almost all have in common is that they hate establishment politicians from both parties. Harris is trying to get their votes by being even more establishment, and it’s going to be a disaster.
The one hope we have is the end of RvW. If that’s woken up enough women voters, then we still can win. Republicans may have screwed themselves so badly that even establishment Democrats can beat them. Let’s hope.
How are we defining ‘flawless’, exactly?
All else aside - yea, I actually kinda agree with this, though I get the distinct impression not in the way you mean it.
edit - what happens if it’s the undecided vote that causes harris to lose, not Stein?
Then she should have messaged better on Israel. On that particular item I also feel like Netanyahu is on a timeline. I’m not sure he cares about the election though. More like he’s trying to get us pulled into a conflict with Iran before January because Biden can’t stand up to him. If he thinks Biden is just locked by the election then he’ll try to do it this month. Harris’ messaging doesn’t really take that into account in my opinion.
Then she should have messaged better on Israel
I’d much rather her do more than message better, but i’d take clear messaging over whatever the fuck we’ve been getting.
She’s trying to stay neutral. It’s not working.
There’s no such thing as neutral - either we’re supporting Israel through their genocide or we’re not.
There is no candidate who can win this race that won’t keep writing blank checks for Israel. If anything, Netanyahu wants Trump to win. He is enraged by even the minimal pushback he gets from the Biden administration.
There’s a chance Harris is more like Obama and reigns in everything but iron dome reloads, while actually holding them responsible for settler violence. If your standard is completely disengage from Israel then yeah we aren’t there yet politically. Although shooting at the UN might just fucking do it.
That’s sure not what she’s running on.
I’m going to blame [Undecided] if that happens, but we all know [Undecided] is going to become vapor just after the election and then reroll and alt character masquerading as a victim of their own ignorance come November…
So yeah… we all know they won’t be around to take their bow and own it.
This rhetoric is sure to convince all those Muslims in Michigan whose family members are being blown up by US bombs. Keep up the good work, neolib crusader!
Whatever you say, MAGA.
No, they don’t just disappear - libs just stop caring about them for another 3 years until they’re needed again.
This must be your first election. No, bud. They disappear. Trust me.
Lmao, I don’t even know how to respond to that without sounding like a fossil
Then you should know better.
Know better than the guy saying ‘trust me bro’?
idk, that’s a pretty high bar to clear
Yeah why don’t we all just send Harris a harshly worded letter while ignoring people who throw away their vote. Yep absolutely makes sense!
Ignoring people instead of, what?.. Railing against voters who are rightfully upset at Harris’s ambivalence about Israel’s genocide?
You think constantly yelling at undecided protestors and blaming them for “Jim Crow V2 - Electric Boogaloo” is going to change their mind?
Get over yourself. The only good that comes from whining about third party candidates spoiling democratic victory is situating the blame if/when Harris loses. It does nothing to convince undecideds, and I’d argue it turns a lot of casual voters off from going to the booth at all.
Might even be radicalizing progressives into tankies, wouldn’t that be exciting.
No.
Heh.
Any third party that’s telling you to vote for them under FPTP, but isn’t heavily promoting RCV to fix the system, isn’t trying to win. They’re trying to spoil the FPTP election.
RCV is already law in a surprisingly large number of places. It may change the majority in the house in this upcoming election, because the difference in vote-counting within the two states that use it for US congressional elections might be enough to change the razor-thin outcome.
RCV is on the ballot, in one form or another, in 7 states and DC this year. Go vote. You might be able to fix the system, and move toward the future that all the people in this thread who are being vocal about Jill Stein say that they want. Remember back when marijuana was illegal? That changed. This can change too, and it would be glorious, for a lot of important goals that a lot of people claiming to support Jill Stein claim they’re supportive of. It would be practical and realistic. It would work.
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven’t been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What’s your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
The answer is obvious, of course. But it’s fun to ask.
@anticolonialist@lemmy.world, why?
I’ll add more @s as more people pipe up. They always do.
Register and vote, for RCV as well as for Harris. We have 25 more days.
RCV is just slightly better than FTP. Let’s go with the bests and support STAR now. If we do all RCV now, we can rage the system in the next 40 years due to people saying “but we just changed it!”
Star is flawed too, it incentivises people who are voting for the underdog to not rank any other candidate or your own ballot could spoil your preferred candidate. If all thrid party voters voted to mathmatically optimize their candidates chance, Star voting wouldn’t change anything for them. RCV is better if you’re trying to actually engage thrid parties.
Star doesn’t fix the ‘spoiler effect’ unless you decide not to give your preferred candidate the largest mathematical advantage your ballot can provide, and if you do want to ballot optimize, you should only rank one person, and then were right back to where we started.
Yeah we need a party that supports RCV, not this fake 3rd party bullshit. Lemme see, which party supports RCV?
Oh the Green Party. That’s… kind of awkward for your point, isn’t it?
The green party likes it for presidential elections where RCV doesn’t really come into play at all because there aren’t three viable parties. They are just making up grievance politics because rcv would never affect them since they never run for anything but president. Democrats are educated enough to know the green party is a scam and Republicans are too ignorant to vote for anything named green.
Certainly not like the DNC which sued to keep RCV off the DC ballot, or Alexandria county VA which opted not to implement it in 2024 because it might confuse the black community?
There are a lot of people in politics who are opposing RCV, because it erodes their power. Some of them are Democrats. Sure. That wasn’t my question. My question was, why is the Green Party spending so much energy pursuing a doomed effort which can only elect Donald Trump, and such an infinitesimal amount of energy on advocating for fixing the system in a way that would let them actually get elected in the future?
It’s a strange allocation of priorities.
I did look around for things the Green Party has done to support Ranked Choice Voting. You’ve sent me the RV tag search, which has a press release from January 2024 and the one before that, from February 2023, dealing with RCV. Hooray.
I did find a substantive thing that Jill Stein herself did to support it in 2017, which actually had something to do with Maine putting it into action: https://mainegreens.org/news/in-the-news/107-jill-stein-joins-push-to-save-ranked-choice-voting-in-maine
That’s good. Why hasn’t she done anything since then? Why is always the focus on attacking the Democrats, and the focus if at all beyond that is a tepid hand-wave in the direction of RCV, when that is the solution that would lead to them being able to get elected? I didn’t look very hard, but I did look, and this was the most recent thing I was able to find since January:
Isn’t sealioning against the rules?
Lmao
Harris wouldn’t get my vote anymore than Trump would get yours. Fascism or fascism light is still fascism.
Paraphrase from Historian Kevin Kruse:
“No, l’m not voting [for the better one of the two major parties in a first past the post system] this election. But rest assured that when the Trump administration starts arresting my nonwhite neighbors and forcing them onto the trains, I’m going to have a pretty big frown on my face. That way, everyone will know it’s not my fault.”
Your comment is fascist and while I was reading it my fascist shoes became untied. I would tie them but the strings are fascist. I apologize for using so many fascist letters in my words. At least periods aren’t fascist… yet.
I love this response so much. I want it to become a copypasta
I didn’t ask whether David Doonan had published a press release on a janky web site which was mostly complaining about Democrats trying to remove Green Party members from the ballot, in this FPTP election. This also somehow finds a way to blame the lack of RCV on the Democrats, when a lot of them support it. Here’s a list:
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/endorsers/
I don’t see any Green Party people there. I have never heard Jill Stein talk about it, and I’ve heard her say a bunch of things. That’s strange to me. But regardless of that, that’s not what I asked. I also didn’t ask whether you plan to vote for Kamala Harris. My question was:
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven’t been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What’s your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
Do you want to answer that question? You don’t have to. You can change the subject again, if you’d like to.
Green Party and Jill Stein has been talking about RCV way before for Democrats ever started talking about it. And I’m kind of doubting that you listen to anything that anybody, says except for the dnc
And yet they aren’t running anyone in Alaska, a state that implemented it this election. Are they campaigning against the ballot initiative to remove it at least?
Edit: and yet no one has ever replied to me on this. Can they seriously not find a candidate for a party seen as the most environmentalists party in a state filled with conservationists, that the democrats only take some elections in because of their SLIGHTLY better environmental policies?
God, you again.
The most important youtube video in politics:
This video was clearly created by leopard supporters who just wanna be mad at tiger for leopard’s failure to beat gorilla. Leopards are basically just light gorillas. Vote tiger.
Michigan 2016
I can’t post more than one image because Lemmy/Memmy makes the images fall apart into a 2 mile long scroll.
Hillary was a terrible candidate. She lost because of that.
Can’t believe Johnson handed the election to Trump like that.
I can. The dude is fucking nuts.
Even without him, Stein had it handled by herself. Why do you think she’s back? Jr, who was funded by a Repub PAC, dropped out. Then Stein re-appeared.
Why do you think she’s back?
Because she’s candidate who won the primary for her party. Same reason Trump is back for third time.
How is Stein having 1.1% of votes worse than Johnson having 3.6%? Stein sucks, I’ll make it clear. But how is Stein’s votes being in last place helping Trump when Johnson won more votes than her?
If every Johnson voter voted Democrat (Libertarians agree with a lot of Democratic opinions, they just don’t see it) then Clinton would have won.
No.
With what logic are you using that all those votes could just be added to Hillary? It’s not how that works. You can just say if it had been completely different it would have been completely different.
It’s like reaching into a bag and pulling 5 limes and saying if only they had been oranges you could have made orange juice.
She wants money, sure, and loves to grift off the people that think themselves superior but this is bad math and pure conspiracy at this point.
Edit: No answer just downvotes cause there isn’t a logical answer just irrational dogpiling to find a scapegoat to appease some strong anxiety. Take a breath. Regroup. Don’t start throwing shit now.
No answer just downvotes cause there isn’t a logical answer just irrational dogpiling
It’s inconceivable that a voter wouldn’t support either major candidate. All green voters become Hilary voters because Democrats and Greens are next to each other on my Ideology For Eighth Graders rubric.
All you have to do is arrest Jill Stein and put her in “friendly with Russia” jail, and Hilary wins in a 0.1% landslide
Somehow Johnson winning more voters with more money than the Green is checks notes proof the Greens are unbashedly evil. Libertarians get more money, are on every state’s ballot, but somehow are never blamed for when Democrats run bad candidates who prop up fascists and ignore swing states.
If Kamala loses of course it will be everyone else’s fault. Fucking race/class traitor neolib cop.
Yawn….
Typical.
Exactly. That’s why I yawned.
I blame your parents. You never had a chance little one…
Ahhh. The pure-as-a-dove civility of a far leftist when they have no argument.
Gotta love it.
Jill Stein isn’t going to hand Trump anything. Only people who vote for Trump can do that.
How are we this late in the game and people STILL believe that nonsense? What the fuck are schools teaching people nowadays?
“Once noble party” - ffs.
Jill Stein is a bad actor in this election, she understands how the electoral college works and she understands she’s weakening the democratic party position. But let’s not blame shift - the Democrats could be much better on climate change then they are today and if they were better Stein’s BS wouldn’t have such an easy time attracting voters. I dislike the title posing it as “Stein may hand Trump the whitehouse again.”
Even if the argument about getting X% of votes was true, the states to campaign heavy in would be the deep blue/red states. Especially since they tend to get ignored by candidates.
Instead she sticks to the states where <30k votes could decide the election and the market is saturated with the most expensive ad costs
It’s blantantly obvious what’s she’s doing.
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I think you replied to the wrong person. And I’m not sure why you had to include a giant screenshot
Every instance that federates now has to host that. If everyone was this inconsiderate of server space the federverse couldn’t exist.
It wasn’t giant on my end, it looked like 2 thumbnails that broke apart into a 2 mile long post that couldn’t be scrolled, so I deleted it. And then your response appeared.
It’s now posted three times as a parent comment to the thread…
And the way deletion works on federated instance none of them are likely to be removed…
So now 4 copies are taking up space on every instance federated with .world, it adds up
TIL
Without 3rd party options we still wouldn’t vote for people that don’t represent us.
The only person who would represent me is myself, and I wouldn’t vote for myself because I don’t want that shitty job
Pennsylvania 2016
I can’t post more than one image because Lemmy/Memmy makes the images fall apart into a 2 mile long scroll.
Wisconsin 2016.
I can’t post more than one image because Lemmy/Memmy makes the images fall apart into a 2 mile long scroll.
