• li10@feddit.uk
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        4 months ago

        I kinda get why they (and other companies) have to try AI at the moment though.

        It’s not what people claim it is, but it could end up being an essential tool for the modern world, and if they don’t invest in it early their business might end up getting left behind.

        We’ve certainly seen companies fall because they’ve not tried to stay on the cutting edge before.

      • Farid@startrek.website
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        4 months ago

        I hate to see AI (I suppose we mean specifically GPTs in this instance) trashed all the time, just because companies use it incorrectly. They shove it in every hole they can to hike the stock price. But it’s a great tool, that arguably needs more time in the oven, which has legitimate helpful uses. Especially in the context of a browser.

        For example, in Arc Browser I can semantically search the page/article for anything and it will show me the location of the information I need (ever tried to find the recipe itself in an article about the recipe?). I can also do some obvious stuff, like summarize and translate sections, which I could do by copying it into a dedicated service, but it’s definitely much more convenient being built-in.
        Would be much better if it ran locally off the NPU, but we are not there yet.

  • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 months ago

    Maybe that’s not bad for firefox.

    Maybe less money means less ridiculous side projects and just focus on delivering a good browser.

    Algo the lack of google as financial support means they’ll rely more on donations, which would mean that they really need to focus on offering a good browser.

    I’ll gladly donate to firefox if I would see they are really focusing on it.

          • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            I just signed up for monthly donations of 5 USD per month. 5.60 USD technically since I also opted to pay the transaction fees.

            Suck it.

              • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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                4 months ago

                I have nothing to prove to you. Besides, even if I did present it, you wouldn’t believe it. Even if I presented it with doxxing information you would note it for future harassment campaigns and also claim you don’t believe it.

                So… as I said previously… suck it.

                5.60 USD to mozilla every month. Not much, but if everyone did it, they would be bigger than google and tell them to eat shit livestream.

                • BlanketsWithSmallpox@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Your dick dumbass. Not a copy of your fucking bank statement lmfao. Were my lips on my dick sucking emoji face not clear enough?

                  Ya’ll take yourselves way too seriously lol. I’m glad you contributed. I haven’t, besides hopefully spurring you on to, in which I’ll take some of the credit for it. So you’re welcome.

      • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
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        4 months ago

        I have donated in the past while still living in a third world country. I stopped when I realized how my donation was squandered.

      • Dizzy Devil Ducky@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        If I had the money, an extra $5 or so would definitely be something I’d spend monthly on donating to Mozilla/Firefox.

      • Iceblade@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        The moment that it’s possible to donate directly towards the development of firefox, there’s roughly 10€/yr with their name on it. As it stands however, Mozilla is not funding FF at all, but rather extracting money from the project.

    • SankaraStone@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Mozilla (not Google) got rid of the side projects, increased the CEO’s salary, and laid off a bunch of employees during the pandemic. It basically got rid of the innovation that could have made Firefox a faster, more secure, and pleasant experience. Rust and Rust-based Servo, as a replacement for Gecko, were two of those side projects. These are the things Mozilla needs to invest in.

      Also, I think Mozilla needs to ask the user upon install what the default search engine should be from a list of search engines including Google, Duck Duck Go, Bing, and Yahoo. Maybe the order of those could be arranged based on how much they’re able to finagle from the search engines.

      The real monopoly is their control over Chrome. That’s what they should be forced to split from the company that owns the search engine. Development and design of Chrome should not and cannot be done by the company that runs the search engine and gets its revenue from ads.

      • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        Google got rid of the side projects, increased the CEO’s salary, and laid off a bunch of employees during the pandemic.

        How did Google do any of that? Wasn’t that all Mozilla Corp?

      • wunami@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Maybe the order of those could be arranged based on how much they’re able to finagle from the search engines.

        That’s the issue that caused this. Google was paying Mozilla to be the default search engine at the top of the list in Firefox and other browsers.

        • SankaraStone@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago
          1. Right now it’s already set as the default search engine and you have to work to change it to something else as I understand it. I’m proposing that no default is set and that the user is asked to select one upon first installing Firefox from an ordered list of search engines. If that’s already the case (it’s been a while since I installed Firefox from scratch), then I’d argue that’s fine. And it allows other search engines to contribute to be higher up in the rankings.

          2. I can’t think of anything that would replace the revenue that Google pays Mozilla that sustains the development salaries to hopefully keep Mozilla competitive and hopefully making it the best performing, convenient and private browser.

      • 4am@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        For userland code that basically fingerbangs every server on the web, some forced memory-safety might not be a bad idea

      • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        I really hope that’s sarcastic, because Rust is one of the most valuable additions to the whole IT field in a good while.

        Entire industries have been stuck on C/C++ for decades. Industries, which are normally extremely late to any form of modern software development, are now practically jolting to get Rust integrated into their toolchains.

        Similarly, languages without runtimes allow for building libraries that can be called from other programming languages, which so far meant C/C++. That’s a big reason why many widely used open-source projects like OpenSSL, SQLite, OpenGL etc. are written in those.
        Even if, for whatever reason, you think Rust is awful, getting a third language into the mix will allow many more people to build similar libraries, which is again really good for everyone.

    • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Maybe less money means less ridiculous side projects

      Like Firefox?

      It really seemed like it’s been a bit of a side project those last few years…

      • tempest@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        They are throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks.

        For some reason people don’t want Mozilla to make money or perhaps they assume browser development is lucrative.

        • shikitohno@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          For some reason people don’t want Mozilla to make money or perhaps they assume browser development is lucrative.

          By their own account, it’s not meant to be lucrative.

          "Corporation. Foundation. Not-for-profit.

          Mozilla puts people over profit in everything we say, build and do. In fact, there’s a non-profit Foundation at the heart of our enterprise."

          Straight from Mozilla’s About Us page for you. Maybe they ought to live up to their words and start focusing on making a solid browser that respects users’ privacy with the majority of their time, funding and energy, rather than squandering these assets on current tech hype nonsense that people don’t actually want.

          • mycodesucks@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            You’re right of course, but you’re also wasting your breath.

            In 2024 the business sociopaths have so many people so twisted and screwed up in the head that they can’t even CONCEIVE of the idea of a person or organization focused on delivering a product sustainably rather than “MONEY MONEY MONEY, NOM NOM NOM!” for eternity.

    • Zorque@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      In reality it means they’ll have to focus more on monetization, which will create more enshittification and not less.

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        What they need is to focus on enterprise functionality and privacy services. Maybe they could even do some sort of consulting

    • Chev@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Maybe you have noticed it, but they try to widem their portfolio with paid services in the last couple of years. They have seen it coming.

      I pay for at least one of their new services.

        • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Maybe that CEO will also quit, because other companies offer them a higher salary.

          It’s so easy to say they should just pay their CEO less. I mean, I get it, it’s a ridiculous amount of money that no one needs. But few people, who are qualified for that job, will just do it out of the goodness of their hearts for a salary far below industry standards.

          • tempest@lemmy.ca
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            4 months ago

            This is predicated on the assumption that a CEOs skill is directly related to their salary.

            This may or may not be the case.

            • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              I don’t think companies care. If you’re the CEO of Mozilla for a year without it imploding, you’re looking very experienced compared to some of the applicants that medium-sized Silicon Valley companies, like Dropbox, Evernote and such, will get.

              And if Mozilla is only paying you $200k, they’ll consider it an absolute bargain to give you tenfold that.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            But few people, who are qualified for that job

            CEOs do nothing. They rake in millions, and hire advisors to tell them what to do

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            4 months ago

            what the fuck could the CEO possibly do for a company that seems to just fucking zombie its way along, it does literally nothing and hasnt died, what could the CEO possibly be qualified for, it’s not like they’re gaining more market share from having a good product

            • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              They are the face of the company. If they are shit at communicating it will affect share prices which could end a company. They have to say the right things at the right times or they could potentially break laws by saying the wrong things.

              There’s a lot of stuff they need to know and it’s not cheap to get that knowledge.

              • exanime@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                I love all the vague, ambiguous examples that say nothing.

                I mean, the Intel CEO just literally quote the Bible… I guess you need a lot of education for that

                Look, I understand you can’t get a high school dropout to do this job, but can they really justify earning 10000x more than other people in their companies? Are they 10000x more valuable??

                • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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                  4 months ago

                  Look, I understand you can’t get a high school dropout to do this job, but can they really justify earning 10000x more than other people in their companies? Are they 10000x more valuable??

                  Everyone here is talking past each other. There’s one crowd raging that CEOs do literally nothing, which is objectively untrue. When that is pointed out, people assume it to be an argument that these CEOs should be paid that much, which it’s not.

                  CEOs do things. If they’re non-shit, they’ll work significantly more hours than normal workers. No, that does absolutely not justify paying them magnitudes more. Their salaries are inflated, because publicly traded companies pay them that much.
                  Because while the effort a CEO puts in does not match the salary, the impact of their work does so more closely. As in, if they’re doing a bad job, the losses for the company will far exceed that salary.
                  More importantly, though, you want to keep one CEO for as long as possible. Even if their strategies are mediocre, constantly changing CEOs and therefore flipflopping between strategies is worse.

              • TriflingToad@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                I can’t even tell you who the CEO is off the top of my head, if they’re the face of the company they’re doing a bad job

              • mycodesucks@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                If they are shit at communicating it will affect share prices which could end a company. They have to say the right things at the right times or they could potentially break laws by saying the wrong things.

                I notice, very glaringly, you didn’t mention a SINGLE thing about the company running efficiently, being profitable, producing something of value…

                It’s not that the company could end if it doesn’t do well at what it does. It’s that the company could end if fickle, short-term focused asshats aren’t happy, and to keep them happy, you need a head fickle, short-term focused asshat at the helm.

                God, I wish every company could just be private.

                • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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                  4 months ago

                  Nope, they aren’t. The Mozilla Corporation, which does Firefox development and has the CEO position that everyone’s talking about, is a 100% subsidiary of the non-profit Mozilla Foundation, which is the organization that you can donate to.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 months ago

                i dont even fucking know who C suites at mozilla, i havent even googled their company in years to see if they even still exist. The only sign of life from this company is when i update my system and firefox also gets updated.

                Also, it’s pretty cheap to get that knowledge, just don’t ever say anything that might lose you money.

          • exanime@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I’m still waiting for evidence these CEOs do anything special… They get paid millions whether the companies they lead succeed or flounder

          • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            This shit right here is why we have capitalism and classes, peolle believing a ceo does something so special no one could possibly do it.

            Shit might be true for things like software development, science stuff not some overpaid C level exec.

            • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              What I primarily meant by that, is that you do need some knowledge about financials. Which isn’t hard to learn, but the group of people willing to learn about it has very little overlap with the people willing to do something out of the goodness of their heart.

            • Delta_V@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Too expensive. Just get someone undocumented to do it for pennies, then threaten to deport them if they ask for a raise.

      • ToxicWaste@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        I know many of us don’t really like AI stuff. But it is just a door opener - and Mozilla needs funding like any company.

        The product we sell at our company also has AI features. So far AI got us to talk to many more customers. So far none of them bought the AI stuff - even if in my opinion it would provide productivity increases. For us AI is a net positive: it cost us 2 weeks of writing gluecode, didnt sell at all, opened many doors for selling the main product.

  • _edge@discuss.tchncs.de
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    4 months ago
    • Mozilla will take money from Microsoft
    • Firefox gets Office 365, Exchange, and Azure AD integration
    • Netflix partners with Microsoft for advanced HD and DRM
    • Microsoft and Mozilla partner to deliver Microsoft-enhanced Firefox for Windows
    • ActiveX 2.0
      • grue@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        It is shocking to me how many people on Lemmy hate Firefox

        Although some people are Google fanbois or reactionary dumbasses, I think most of what you’re misinterpreting as “Firefox hate” is actually love for Firefox and hate for what Mozilla has done to it.

        Most Firefox-critics’ feelings towards it are more like this:

      • Thrashy@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Consider that many of the same people think of Arch as a viable daily driver distro for the everyman. Some folks are more accepting of jank than others.

      • HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com
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        4 months ago

        this does mystify me. only time I nearly dropped firefox was when they did the big change that broke add ons but firefox with the addons I like is the best browser for me. nothing they have done has been consequentially bad. philosophically maybe but the actual effect is not bad compared to any other options.

          • HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com
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            4 months ago

            oh yeah. duck duck go is for my firefox. duck duck go is another one with a lot of drama that amounts to nothing. have tried a few alts but went back.

          • mkwt@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            For the money they are (were I guess) handed to set that it’s clearly worth it.

            Not disagreeing with you. I just want to point out that Google is probably deliberately “overpaying” on this Mozilla deal, because they want to keep Firefox afloat, because they don’t want to catch a court ruling that they are monopolizing the browser market too.

            Dirty tricks with web browsers is the antitrust charge that actually caught Microsoft in the 90s.

      • DannyBoy@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        I don’t think people hate Firefox as much as people hate Mozilla and what they’re doing with Firefox.

      • Chloé 🥕
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        4 months ago

        its an emotional reaction. google has always been bad, them doing a bad thing is just business as usual. who cares

        but when mozilla does something bad? mozilla is supposed to be the good guy! they betrayed us!

          • Chloé 🥕
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            4 months ago

            its an emotional reaction, not a rational one. i know mozilla, despite its problems, is faaaar from being as bad as google

            to be clear i don’t hate mozilla, i do hate google, and i feel like the hate mozilla gets is way overblown, even if their actions are disappointing

    • yamanii@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Don’t you think they dabbled on stupid projects and acquired some companies like pocket precisely because just a browser wasn’t enough to pay the bills?

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      That’s why Mozilla Foundation shouldn’t have created Mozilla Corporation in first place.

  • datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I hope Mozilla put most of that Google money into index funds or something. At least it didn’t go into paying the developers.

  • baltakatei@sopuli.xyz
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    4 months ago

    If tech giants such as Google cannot be broken up, then their services should be required to be compatible and all data exportable to competitors. See the EFFʼs “Competitive Compatibility” concept. Buy a movie off Google’s YouTube but Google misbehaves? It must be exportable to a market competitor that you do support. Don’t like how Google handles your email? You should be able to switch your email address to a competitor just like you can change phone companies without losing your phone number.

    Basically, if the US Federal government cannot discipline monopolies by breaking them up directly, they should break up the moats and walled gardens the monopolies built to keep customers locked in to maintain their monopolies. See Chokepoint Capitalism by Rebecca Giblin and Cory Doctorow.

  • FearfulSalad@ttrpg.network
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    4 months ago

    In my utopia, Google would be forced to continue to pay out the current annual contract sum, at a decreasing percentage every year, for some number of years, to all affected companies, giving them the opportunity to divest and pivot.

    The root problem doesn’t get fixed if the company with enough money to be a monopolist still has the money when this is “resolved.”

  • pyre@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    it’s not like they used the money to improve the fucking browser anyway

  • FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Which would ironically give even more monopoly over how the web is viewed to Google. Chrome and Firefox are just about the only two players in that space right now.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      No they’re not, there’s safari and Edge. Don’t forget about opera.

      :|

      Sorry. I’m having a hard time keeping a straight face while I say that…

      • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        I would actually like to know how much it cost. And how much each user “should” pay so it becomes viable.

        Though I would really think that public institutions should use firefox as a base browser instead of edge/chrome as being open source is usually a big plus for public agencies that need to really control what’s going on in their computers. And thus being a big source of financial support for firefox.

        • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Someone above posted that they have a revenue of 593 million dollars per year. Presumably somewhat below that is going to be their yearly costs.

          And according to this, they have around 160 million desktop Firefoxes showing up, which is going to be roughly how many active users there are.

          593 / 160 would be $3.71 per user.

      • a Kendrick fan@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        people pay for a search engine, they would subscribe for a browser if it does what they want

        if Mozilla bundles a private, secure and well packaged browser with a good search engine and this browser performs well while still providing the current version for free, there’s a certain minority who would be compelled to pay for it

        atm, a browser and search engine is the major gateway to the internet, google has always done that at the cost of the user being a product, but it is now fucking that up and an alternative is needed, Mozilla could and should step in for that

    • smb@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      maybe firefox forks already do the trick for you, i’ve heared there are plenty free ones. no need to pay, but maybe donations are very welcome. also a complete open source solution that is ready to be compiled by anyone could also be patched by anyone for himself to disable a feature heshex dislikes or such.

      welcome to free adult world ;-)