Imagine apartments built into what used to be department stores, (Oh, you’re JC Penny 203? I’m at Sears 106). Get those old arcades up and running. Set up meal stations at the food court. Once people actually live there, stores will start to move back in.
If I’m unable to finish my life in my own home, that doesn’t sound like a terrible option.
Those are also the “mall rat” generations, so it’d be pretty fitting lol.
We can watch the original Fast and Furious, recreate a mockup of HTML eBay and put 5hp stickers on our mobility scooters with RGB under glow lighting, and sub’s around our nitrous bottles.
I live my life one quarter footprint store front at a time…
And, naturally, we’d be hauling boomboxes blasting gangsta rap in the baskets of our mobility scooters. lol.
Our generation’s old-folks home gonna be lit
mobility scooters with RGB under glow lighting
This but unironically. I think I need to find someone willing to let me do this to their scooter or wheelchair; I’ve got parts to spare and if it gets even a few chuckles it will be worth doing.
I think that’s the point.
Not even renovated, just set me up in a hot topic.
Can’t. The goth kids burned it down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvUDHpPgb4
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Have you been in a Spencer’s recently? Remember the skeezy area in the back? That’s now the whole thing.
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Spensors was always an excuse to put a sex toy store in a shopping mall.
Spensors was always an excuse to put a sex toy store in a shopping mall.
As a GenX, I would prefer seeing them made into some sort of public space? We are losing a lot of that, at least where I live. Indoor space in particular.
Can you provide an example since in not fully understanding what you’re after?
A library.
Yeah but one for talking
A talkbrary
Barnes and Noble/Starbucks tried that. It’s pretty cool but didn’t scale
I commented below with a similar idea. Like a public indoor park, for when Outside™ is no longer an option for recreation due to climate issues. They are big enough to accommodate large playgrounds, both child and adult style, running tracks, swimming pools, sports fields/courts. Keep the food court, sure, throw in a library, etc.
If we ever get a house and senate progressive enough to shave like 0.000000001% of the military budget we could put one in every abandoned mall and have funds left over.
Yeah that sounds awesome!
I was just trying to say that once you privatize something like a mall to make it housing or whatever it is, you will never get it back. The city or some public trust should hold onto the property. What you actually do with it depends on what would be best for the community I guess?
Being a Canadian, just having some indoor places where you can gather in to get out of the cold in the dead of winter is something I don’t think we should give up.
3rd places.
counterargument; malls, arcades, and bookstores should come back in style because they were amazing and we don’t know what we missed until it’s gone.
Malls are sign of bad ciry planning
They will come back as the US shifts away from car centered culture, malls thrive in Europe
You have arcades in Europe?
Yes
How will shifting away from cars result in more people going to the mall? How are you supposed to get there?
Well optimally you have 2 legs, you could use those, also public transport.
Video with more info https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=SL-vnIV14DPwFH9I
Well optimally you have 2 legs,
It’s called number eleven
It will just be delivered.
Well ofc, Europe doesn’t have delivery invented yet, that’s the difference between the us and europe
Some day.
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And yes, it can be done in the US as well, and not just in cities. I think our similar touchpoint in the US is “Main Street”. Guess what: they still exist in a few places.
Time to brag about my town. We have a town center with a Common, transit hub, library, post office, government buildings. Most importantly we have a nice walkable street with shops and restaurants. As was tradition, the lots are in back, but there are also higher density housing so many people are just there and all the buses, taxis, Ubers, bicycles, scooters, and even canoe rentals center on that area so there’s transit.
During COViD when we couldn’t go to places with a lot of people, this became much bigger. My family wasn’t the only one that developed a new tradition of walking at the Common and along the street, eating outside, or grabbing takeout from one of the many Ethnic restaurants to eat at a bench on the Common
If they come back, I hope they will be more accessible on foot, with a bike, or with efficient public transit. Because if they are still surrounded by deserts of parking lots, only filled with EVs instead of ICEs, they can continue to die.
It’s already a problem if they are not in the city center, as it sucks out business from the center and creates more traffic.
If parts of it become residential like OP suggested, then it’ll be accessible by foot.
In my country (and I think most of Europe) malls (especially those in more central areas) have underground parking, or limited above-ground parking. There is a really nice one which is connected to a big park in the back. So maybe you can replace the parking lots with apartment buildings, recreational spaces and transit infrastructure and maybe include some underground parking.
As a millennial I can tell you that most millennials I know wouldn’t want this but instead make it a place for none corporation and community events and such. A public place where your not forced to buy things where can just exist with others even if you have zero money and accessible to all genders and disabilities and races.
And yes retrofit part of it for people who need to get back on there feet, and homeless people.
If we could retrofit them into homeless shelters we could but it would require rebuilding mostly everything as malls are designed for stores not housing people (for instance the bathrooms are not private and not easily accessible if you live somewhere in it)
I know it’s hard to imagine since you’ve pretty much got to pay to exist anywhere today, but malls were a place to just exist. I spent hours and hours wandering around the mall in the eighties without any money.
Expanding on the thought, it was perfectly ok to be, get this, a TEENAGER existing without any money in a mall!
In my country malls were never this. When I was young several malls, specially high end ones, banned unaccompanied teenagers during weekdays and at certain hours. Also, fuck malls with absolutely no seating or resting spaces outside of the food court. I hope they all go broke and get demolished.
Might also depend on the timing. At least in the 90s, my area was as described, a hangout place where ambient hanging out was considered just fine because enough people bought stuff it was worth it and people behaved relatively well, or they had enough security to make that the case.
Now there’s all sorts of signs up about unaccompanied teenagers are not allowed.
Also, fuck malls with absolutely no seating or resting spaces outside of the food court.
Sounds like EU got work to do
malls were a place to just exist
Not really. Malls existed because enough of the people who went there were spending enough money to make them profitable.
Yes it was permissible to go to a mall and not spend any money, and a lot of people did just that, but that doesn’t mean malls did not require most people to be spending money.
I think not “most” but the ones that did spend spent plenty enough to make up for the rest. Maybe “most” do at least grab food at a restauraunt though.
I have no respect for people with no shopping agenda
Yesss, give us community spaces that are not designed around maximizing profits.
In a city in my country there was an old mall that was slowly taken over by bands who used the spaces as rehearsal rooms. It gained a huge following including some local big bands and concerts. They all paid rent too. Unfortunately, early this year, they were evicted by the owner and City Hall, out of nowhere and are on its way to become airbnb’s for tourists…
Nothing new…
Elsewhere, someone suggested that it would be necessary to take the rebuild down to the dirt to handle plumbing and the like for individual units, but I’m not sure I agree.
Generally there is significant excess ceiling height in these commercial spaces, no reason the floor couldn’t be raised throughout the space to accommodate plumbing and the like in a way that’s easily accessible for future maintenance. You still end up with 8’ ceilings (or probably rather more) throughout.
Over the years, I’ve watched a number of retail chains and malls die, sometimes suddenly and sometimes slowly. It’s continuously seemed like a huge waste to me, when conversion to residential space would be relatively easy, relatively affordable, could be funded by local gov or nonprofit, and would make a significant difference in net housing costs in a given area.
When ‘traditional’ residential developers are competing with that, and with the ability to slap down standard-sized (AKA easy) risers/walls/etc. within commercial spaces of defined sizes, a further reduction in local housing costs is likely.
Adding a load bearing floor sounds pricey. I’d go for industrial and have the pipes exposed.
Load bearing as in, structural? Isn’t that the existing floor? Something built over the top wouldn’t be load-bearing unless you’re talking about any walls that would go up as well. It certainly wouldn’t be holding up the ceiling or anything higher.
Ahh, good point. Meant more it can handle furniture, people, etc. Doesn’t that mean the walls are fixed though?
If you’ve got an open area like a department store, that’s a lot of square footage that can be divided out. Walls can be built too, not uncommon at all in commercial construction I’m sure. And there are raised floor setups in data centers to make it easy to run cabling and stuff. If they can handle giant server racks, I’m sure a couch would be easy peasy.
This isn’t a too shabby of an idea. It probably won’t be used but a mix of stores and homes in one building sounds great.
The idea of apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while. It’s almost an answer, except it still requires transportation to everything else. Plus the stores tend to be higher prices to support the cost of property and because they can.
apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while
Do you mean like… a town?
A town is a bit more than that, but it is how towns typically began, from a central trading place and nearby settlements. Only this is a planned concrete parking lot and established chain along with fully built domiciles, already in a city/town’s jurisdiction.
Only this is a planned concrete parking lot
That’s where it all falls down. Mandatory parking space kills cities. The point of a centralized commercial area with residential around is that people will walk to it.
ITT: people want cyberpunk megabuildings
But keep the appearance of a mall.
That way when we all have Alzheimer’s from micro plastics, we can wander around it and feel youngStahp, I’m not even 40 yet.
And you won’t be able to retire in 20 years, or 30, maybe 40, if you’re lucky
In some places they’re already doing it to revitalize the majority of the mall, convert a section and suddenly you’ve got people around 24/7 that want services.
Yeah, they’re trying that around here and failing spectacularly. The recent fascination for new construction in my area seems to be try this “Main Street, USA” shit where they build brutalist flat-roof apartment blocks but with the ground level being retail stores. The rationale seems to be to attempt to build some kind of enclave where people can live, work, and shop without ever having to leave. The only glaring caveats are that the only retail businesses that ever appear here are all shitty franchised fast-casual restaurants where nobody wants to go, with the gaps filled in by the usual parade of payday loan places, cash for gold, crossfit joints that attract no members, and a revolving door of nail salons and wannabe hipster barber shops opening and going out of business.
Notably, none of the retail joints at street level pay enough for anyone working there to afford the astronomical rent for one of the apartments in the same fucking building. These motherfuckers can’t even set up a company town correctly…
I’m talking about taking an existing mall and converting part of it, not new constructions
I know that, but for all the reasons being discussed in detail elsewhere in this thread nobody is actually doing that. What is happening in reality is what I described, and it’s bonkers.
The only malls or retail or industrial buildings I have ever actually seen “revitalized” into housing was done by tearing them down entirely and building new buildings on the land. Around me, at least, what’s being built is what I described in my previous comment.
I’ve seen both. Our area has had, for a few years, mixed use zoning as a requirement. So a bunch of projects that clearly only wanted to do housing are doing what you describe: Housing and a meets minimum commercial/office effort. Notably while trumpeting “walkable” which is really code for “we don’t waste land on unprofitable parking lots”. So you have somewhat dense living and retail where the retail has zero parking, so the only people a business could hope to get are the people in the units immediately close by, which are not a lot, since each project seems to go for low rise housing. So you get three stories of apartments which is more dense than suburbia, but not nearly dense enough to sustain a dedicated retail presence.
But there is this mall they’ve effectively renovated into a “downtown”, adding high rise apartments, and lots of them to the massive retail presence as well as big office buildings. Critically, also expanded to an insane degree the amount of available parking. It was a pretty failing mall (like most) and now it’s doing really well, both with high occupancy for their apartments and people going there for the rather nice retail. I think this was the first project and inspired the county to decide everything will be a success if it’s just mixed use, and they haven’t really come around to realize that they haven’t succeeded in forcing the developers to do viable mixed use by the current weak regulations.
This sounds like such bad idea. Just demolish them.
mall walks!
With those moving walkways you see in airports.
As a millenial, all I want is the LAN party old folks home.
Knock these things down and plant trees and stuff.
While we’re at it knock all the corporate 9to5 office work buildings where all the employees can work from home and plant trees and stuff there too.
Trees and ponds and natural parks and shit, hiking trails…etc.
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the person who came up with malls WANTED them to be just as you described… Not some shopping centre thing
That would be really good, but this idea has been explored and unfortunately it is only viable on a very narrow amount of buildings. Most malls aren’t properly built to be housing and the costs of adapting them for housing exceed the cost of just building new housing elsewhere. And the costs of tearing it down and rebuilding are even greater. Overall, Malls are economic net negatives for communities, all single use infrastructure constructions are.
This is the answer.
A cheap / half assed conversion would be a ghetto. It would be awful.
Sanitation would be a huge problem also. In an apartment you have access to air from the outside. Imagine everyone living in a box in the same enclosed space. Yes I understand malls have gargantuan (and expensive) air conditioning systems. It would still stink.
Not to mention the money. Even a derelict mall is still worth many millions of dollars. You have to buy or lease the building from them.
You’d be much better off creating a walkable community of low-cost housing in a low-density semi-rural area.
