It’s unfair to compare Trump to the Joker. The Joker is a strategic and tactical and logistical genius, he didn’t inherit his position from “Papa Clown Show” and pretend to be good at what he does.
deleted by creator
Hilarious
ROFL
Joker for president!
This was the first time in Batman history that The Joker got to be Gotham major?
It’s so genius, that made me believe it’s already happened before.
As far as I know it’s the first, but I’m not well-versed in the comics.
Man, season 4 did him dirty. There was so much they could do to exploit this arc of his and instead treated it like an old joke.
This is Alfred slander. He’s the only person on Earth who can slap sense into fucking Batman, not some old fuck who should have been in hospice care two years ago
He’s the only aged gentleman who will headbutt supes in the nose.
There is at least one timeline where Alfred has rocked Superman’s shit just for daring to show his face after a fight he had where he injured batman.
Absolutely! I’d take Alfred, if he were the option. At least he could string together a sentence that makes sense. So essentially, our choice is between the Joker and the Riddler.
Can the Democrats please stop tolerating everything? We haven’t even officially declared a candidate. Let’s take a good look at our options and stop forcing the country into another awful Sophie’s choice.
The options are the Joker and… uh, Thomas Wayne. Like, current day Thomas Wayne.
I like how Democrats always frame this as the only two choices. They really, REALLY want to lose.
It’s way easier to run a campaign this way, though. Who wants to acknowledge that the US issues are structural and require solutions that would go against the lobbyists and donors’ best interests?
But due to the first-past-the-post system, these are the only two options. The primaries are when you choose the candidates, and the election is when you choose the winner of the candidates. That’s the system you have. You really need to switch to a preferential voting system if you want to have more than two options in the presidential election.
The unstated choice is a different candidate for Dems. Joe ran in 2020 as…
…oh fuck nevermind.
You have a better solution for tens of millions of voters to organize behind in the next 4 months?
They had 4 years to light l find and line someone else up. Biden’s age isn’t a surprise that snuck up on anyone
Soooo no other solutions? Gotcha, I’ll stick with the plan to vote Biden and let Harris take over if he steps down.
So as an individual you have 4 options:
1- vote for Biden: democrats maintain the current path as that’s literally what’s happening now
2- vote Trump: either they maintain their current path or democrats have to pivot
3- vote third party: if that party gets enough votes one of the main parties will catwr to the messaging of that party to take those voters in the next cycle as it’s an easy win
4- don’t vote: if enough people don’t vote they’ll cater more to them next cycle but that’s harder to aim in the direction you’d want to promote.
Is that a good enough breakdown? So if I were to rank my options I’d go for 3,4,2,1
What are the chances enough people voting decide in the next 4 months to vote 3rd party or sit out moreso than vote Biden/Trump?
You’ve said that choosing options 3, or 4 will send a message to change party opinions for the next cycle. But the message it sends is ambiguous at best. It could be interpreted to mean that people are unhappy with the system and demand change; but it could also mean that people are indifferent, or disengaged, or ill-informed, or have been prevented / dissuaded from exercising their right to vote. Or perhaps it could be interpreted on policy grounds: perhaps votes are unhappy with genocide… or perhaps not, perhaps they are war-hungry. Perhaps want stricter rules to control anti-social behaviour … or the opposite.
If you don’t vote at all, your message is basically just noise. It communicates nothing, because whatever message you think it sends it could also be sending the opposite. Voting third-party would be less bad, except that many third parties are exist disingenuously as a tactical way to split votes, to increase the change of victory for the party of opposite values to what the third party purports to represent.
If lets say 10% of people vote for the green party. We know that what people want relates to their messaging and they’d try and take voters away from them as it’s easier than taking republicans or people that refuse to vote since you know what the green party stands for. That’s different than voting for the social democrats and so on.
You can’t lump options 3 and 4 together like that.
Not voting sends the message that people are dissatisfied or feel disenfranchised. Now if the Democrats win they won’t care to change. Or even if they nearly win. But if they loose badly they’ll have to cater to these voters. And thus a pivot would be in order. But like we’re both said, not voting harder to take get a party to move in that direction
It’s this endless litany of “Just because our guy sucks…” and I can’t imagine what that message is going to do to turnout in three months
I’ve wanted Biden to croak and the party be forced to get behind Kamala sooo bad. Boom, younger candidate, female, minority(Indian mother, Jamaican father) incumbent that can be elected 2 more times. Maybe the plan is for it to happen next term? Idk. I don’t know a single thing she’s done besides be a VP, but damn give me someone who doesn’t look like they gonna die any second.
Kamala isn’t very likeable, and I saw a recent interview (about Biden’s debate performance) where she acted pretty unhinged. She talked at Anderson Cooper like he was a child, had a wierd speech cadence, and smiled psychotically.
Only thing I know about her is she was a DA and prosecuted a lot of people for cannabis.
I’m actually not sure if she’d have a better chance at winning than Biden.
If, somehow, Biden wins, I’d bet she’d be president soon after. Rumors are Biden’s sundowning, and isn’t very coherent after 3pm. That’s only going to get worse, forcing him to step-down (or one would hope).
Harris would probably be a status-quo (i.e. actual conservative) president. Not good, but not as bad as a fascist president.
Doing away with First Past The Post voting will allow us to choose a different, better option.
They be like: your options are a shit sandwich or getting shot in the head.
When all along your options are every other food too, they just removed them from the menu.
You still should pick the shit sandwich over the shot to the head, but you should as hell be mad at both the one who would pull the trigger and the ones who left you with a shit sandwich as the viable alternative.
Eat the sandwich, remove the trigger man then go after the restaurant owners.
Eating the shit sandwich will result in always getting a shit sandwich
2016: “Vote for the shit sandwich”
2020: “Vote for the shit sandwich”
2024: “Vote for the shit sandwich”
Can’t understand why the Democratic Party isn’t more popular.
The democratic choice in both 2016 and 2020 were actually good. Biden has been the most progressive president ever, as sad as that is.
Biden has been the most progressive president ever
Not even inside the top five, as sad as that is.
They knew in 2020 that Joe was slipping but instead of trying to solve the problem then they did nothing but cover up the obvious issues. To go with the metaphor, Alfred was a good man doing the right thing. The modern Democrat party has no Alfred. Instead they now seems to care more about their party’s own power over the actual good of the country. Very few people wanted Joe in 2020 but we were told we vote him in to save democracy and then run someone better in 2024. Now here we are going through the same loop. No, if the Democratic party refuses to run a candidate that the people want then we’ve already lost our democracy. Our two party only system is already a joke and it allows those in power to do whatever they want with the looming threat that the other team will destroy America. I’m sorry to say but the Joker is already in charge.
I disagree: The Democratic Party does not care about its power. In fact many of the still current leaders of the party actively believe in a strong Republican Party.
I am specifically quoting Biden with that.
“We need a Republican Party. We need an opposition that’s principled and strong.”
Yup, people so quickly forget that Biden and his campaign heavily implied that he planned on being a one term president. Somehow that whole thing came and went.
How people allow themselves to be gaslit like that over and over and just wipe it out of their memory is beyond me.
How people allow themselves to be gaslit like that over and over
Other guy is worse. Yes, it’s the same guy who has been running for president since 2016, but he’s worse so you have to vote for our guy no matter how awful he gets.
Trump’s going to run again in 2028 and you’re going to be expected to vote for the Democrat for this reason alone, again.
The false dichotomy fallacy here is that we don’t have to choose either. There is still time to pick Robin. Younger; more charismatic; still moral.
show me robin.
Whitmer. Shapiro. Newsom, even.
Before anyone tries to claim polls show they wouldn’t do better than Biden against Trump let me remind people that this is without them having the endorsement of the dnc or the inevitable viral media attention they’d receive from endorsements from Obama or Biden himself. They’d surge overnight.
You know who isn’t surging? Biden. He’s been steadily declining in every single data-point, and the debate didn’t help.
So you know what 70% of voters have a problem with? How old the two current candidates are.
Give them what they want. Give Americans new exciting shit to vote for. This is the country that watches the Kardashians and American Idol for christ sake.
Maybe. On the other hand, changing out your candidate after one debate doesn’t inspire much confidence. And you lose the advantage a sitting president usually has in elections.
A new candidate might indeed do better, but the DNC is risk averse as hell. I don’t see them having the balls to make a move like this.
If it was about a poor debate performance akin to Obama vs Romney debate 1 I’d be inclined to agree.
The problem is this wasn’t really about the debate. It was about revealing to the country Biden’s clear senility problems, which at 81, won’t get better but certainly get worse.
And second to that: If Biden was 10 points ahead in the polls I’d also say okay maybe we just ride this out.
But he’s not. In fact relative to 2020 he’s been 10 pts behind pre-Debate. Losing in every battleground state as well.
To me I see the car crash happening up ahead and want to jump while we still have time.
Sadly I agree with your final comment. Today at Camp David was the day Biden could back out if his closest advisors and family pulled him aside. But they’re encouraging him to keep going.
You know what inspires even less confidence? Biden.
The track record of the Biden administration is solid. Why should that change?
Because Biden isn’t solid.
He could be a bowl of jelly and it wouldn’t make a difference. He’s just the head of the Executive branch, where his job is pretty much signing/vetoing bills, hiring cabinet members, and nominating judges (with advice from said cabinet members). The alternative is a Nazi supported by the lines of the swastika-waving Nazis seen in Florida.
Nope. That’s Denying the Correlative. In the general election, there are two choices of statistical significance, supporting the DNC candidate, or supporting the RNC candidate. The Right is consistent in voting and wins when there is lower turnout for the DNC candidate (they are a minority). Third parties are spoilers, generally bleeding votes from the DNC candidate, making it more likely that the RNC candidate wins.
The Democratic primary ended in early June. That was the time to get Robin in. Now, it’s too late for that and the choice is between Alfred, who should be retired, and the Joker, who should be retired and wants to replace democracy with a dictatorship, put anyone who was mean to him in prison, and expand ongoing genocides where he thinks that he can profit off of the real estate that used to belong to the murdered inhabitants.
Whoa, whoa, whoa… Who said anything about third-party?
The nominee isn’t official until the convention, which means we still have time. And I ask: what would happen between then and November should Biden suffer a fatal medical emergency or his condition get so worse it’s impossible to hide? Democrats would, of course, find a way to put someone else on the ticket.
So let’s not pretend it’s impossible or that the ship has sailed, for it has not.
If we actually grow a fucking backbone and realize that Biden:
- Is performing WORSE in EVERY WAY compared to his 2020 run (where he eeked by with 40,000 votes)
- Is performing WORSE than Hillary Clinton’s loss in 2016.
- 70% of the electorate BEFORE the catastrophic debate seen by 50 million people thought Biden was too old
- 64% of independents POST-debate say they want Biden replaced on the ballot.
… And let’s acknowledge that we need to take a chance at an open convention or face a guaranteed loss.
Whoa, whoa, whoa… Who said anything about third-party?
Oh thank fuck.
I thought Biden was too old and too right-wing in 2020.
… And let’s acknowledge that we need to take a chance at an open convention or face a guaranteed loss.
The only problems that I see with an open convention are candidate name recognition for those who pay no attention and the fact that GOP states have already been trying fuckery with the ballots.
You know the state ballot argument is a risk I hadn’t considered. I honestly don’t know enough to say how they could impact but it’s worth further consideration.
I think there would be a media frenzy if you saw a headline like, “BREAKING NEWS: PRESIDENT BIDEN RESIGNS; ENDORSES GRETCHEN WHITMER.” After which there would be viral social media and millions googling, “who is Whitmer?” Hopefully the conclusion they have is, “well she’s a fresh face and she’s younger than the other guy.”
I agree with you there. The ballots and irrational voters are still my greatest concern. There were attempts to block Biden from the ballot in swing states because of the DNC convention being later than the state deadline. Look to any avenue open to electoral fraud being taken advantage of.
I think the third party is a valid thing to keep in mind. The Republicans are a bit more “ends justify the means”, which translates to not letting themselves get distracted by “perfect is the enemy of the good”. So they might even prefer a third party, but they are less likely to because they tend to be a bit more coldly strategic in their voting.
With respect to they can ignore the results of the primary vote… but that’s exactly the sort of thing that people accussed them of when they put Hilary Clinton up as their candidate. So the right can tear into them for ‘coronating’ their candidate instead of doing an election.
While they can put up someone else, it would be a pretty desperate act, and it’s hard to know which bad option is the worst of the options.
Fair points but I don’t personally put much weight in the perception of what Republicans might say about a coronation for a couple reasons:
- All of us on the Democratic side just want Trump to lose.
- Anyone who voted for Joe Biden will vote for anyone under the Democratic ticket.
- Especially when Joe Biden, himself, endorses that candidate. It’s little different than letting Joe pick his own Vice President. It’s kind of like a transitive extension of one’s vote.
and it’s hard to know which bad option is the worst of the options.
And this is the thing that I’m 100% convinced of by this point, personally. I see not just little hope, but no hope for Biden winning at this stage. As I tried my best to convey, Biden is performing significantly worse compared to 2020 and even Hillary’s failed run. There’s kind of a diminishing-returns argument to be made at this point that the vast electorate knows both Trump and Biden through & through. There’s nothing new they’re going to realize that they don’t already know. So to move poll numbers now is next to impossible; and with that, the polls are going in the wrong direction for Biden, and the full effect of the debate hasn’t even set in.
So what does one do? Well between riding out the inevitable crash, I think we take the chance with another way. But we won’t do that by the looks of it. And I will bet large sums of money that Biden loses, unfortunately.
…who you also went vote for because "both sides*.
We absolutely cannot trust the DNC to not make the same mistake they made in 2016. But you are not wrong
There is still time to pick Robin
LOL. Uh huh. Sure bud.
I think you mean Nightwing.
Raven for President!
And who is Robin in this example?
John Stewart
The same Jon Stewart who has repeatedly expressed a strong desire never to go into politics?
Yep sounds like Robin
Cool, so we’re just going to make believe.
Who cares if they die day 1 in office? It’s about which party is in charge.
It’s about which person is not going to have and abuse his Presidential power.
Biden has been doing it too but yknow, abuse is cool when its blue.
Seems you clearly understood who I was talking about. The two are not the same, even remotely.
Trump wants power regardless of whether he wins the election or not, tried to take power when he lost, and many of his own cabinet appointees and his own vice president have come out against him. He spreads lies incessantly, sides with Putin in everyway and is denigrating to our intelligence agencies and military. Not to mention being a guy that brags about sexually assaulting women, talks about his own daughter sexually and was good friends with a known pedophile. He’s even said he wouldn’t release info on Epstein and those he associated with.
“I support abuse of presidential power when its blue”
Good for you, buddy
What power is Biden abusing exactly? And I’m a registered Republican btw, but not one that’ll support a fascist who has tried to dismantle our democracy.
That’s not a quote, you seem to be providing disinformation / lying / are incompetently insane. Which is it?
He’s saying we have to support Bidens abuse of power to protect us from Trump’s, so yes he is saying it. Abuse you support personally is still abuse.
Yes both are crooks, but one has performed far far more crimes than the other.
But okay, if > 1 is your threshold than by that measure they’re complete twins.
I’d rather Kamala be president than Trump, any day. Kamala isn’t a convicted felon.
Choice seems really easy, but so many people make life more complicated than it really is. I don’t get it anymore.
Because you keep presenting a false dichotomy and ignore the actual problem being discussed here.
The question is: do you want a senile person or a career prosecutor as a president?
The fact the office of the president has to be likened to Alfred to make sense is quite underhanded and indicative of a greater issue.
And yet the most pressing issue right now is Alfred vs. Joker. It’s one or the other unless something drastic changes. So pick Alfred and then work on the next problem.
The ‘next’ problems are concurrent, unfortunately.
The GOP may very well wind up with a veto proof Congress at this rate and it will all be for nought.
First priority has to be shutting out the Joker, then Alfred will even help find the next Batman
Ok yeah, but that doesn’t mean we need to choose Alfred to do the actual fighting against the Joker. Instead, it’s perfectly OK to say “Hey Alfred, let Batman handle the Joker, you watch and provide advice if you’re needed.”
batman’s not running for president. time to face reality.
If you aren’t happy with the candidates: PAY ATTENTION DURING THE PRIMARIES. You can’t complain now which restaurant to eat at only when the food arrives at the table. You’re coming in way the fuck Too late now for this argument.
People were saying the same shit about Biden during the primaries, they were saying the same shit during the primaries of the last election. It doesn’t matter. the Dem leadership rig it to run whoever they want to run.
Didn’t Bernie run in the last primary?
For some reason, people are convinced that Bernie would have won if it wasn’t for the DNC putting a gun to the head of millions of Democratic voters and making them vote for Joe Biden instead.
I’m a Bernie voter. Biden was like, third to last pick for me, not exactly rooting for him. If people my age spent as much time and effort actually fucking voting like the suburban fucking soccer moms that shored up Biden’s support during the primary, we COULD have had Bernie.
2020 yes, 2024 no. Biden had small time candidates against him in the primaries (Dean Phillips, Marianne Williamson, RFK).
The consensus in the DNC was for no major candidates to challenge him as it may shake his standing. It’s tradition to not primary against an incumbent.
“President Carter won’t debate me!!!” - Guess who
Ah yes, I had it in my head that they didn’t primary at all, as opposed to it being traditionally non-competitive. Thanks for the correction
During the primaries, there was only one candidate! Joe! That was it!
Then run yourself. Stop complaining for someone else to do something. You’re just as ineffective as who you hate.
The democratic primary was canceled in many states, they made it impossible for anyone to run a serious campaign. They wouldn’t even have the candidates for interviews on their networks, not even to maybe pressure Biden to stop leaning so far to the right.
Actually they did. You slept through it and watched the trial instead.
Wow guess who didnt pay attention to the primaries
Hey you’re only reach here is crying someone else to do a thing so you’d vote for them. Way to be ineffective to any of your problems.
Fair point. Since I am not part of the elite donor class, I am ineffective. Best I manage is a noncommittal form letter in response to mail and phone calls
I wish I was this dumb. Maybe then I could believe in the fantasy of getting representation in exchange for my vote and/or taxation.
Or even “Hey Alfred, could you stop giving the Joker those bombs he’s using to kill children?”
Why cannot Robin take care of the Batcave? Why Alfred want the Batcave so bad when is clear that he need to retire and let a younger generation have their time?
Ain’t Robin also running around in yoga pants and cape, hopping at unexpected individuals in dark alleys?
No, but you DO replace him.
Yup. But you deal with one problem at a time. Right now we have a real Joker problem with immediate and dire consequences.
Following your analogy to its logical conclusion, we’re about to send Alfred out to take care of this Joker problem. It seems like we should find a Batman instead, or at least a Robin, before Alfred gets his ass handed to him.
Bro have you seen Alfred fight?
The problem would not be Alfred losing, it would be stopping him from plugging the Joker like an out of charge phone because he has made very clear that he does not share Batman’s distaste for firearms.
This whole discussion is itself a metaphor, the people who are the most worried are the ones who understand the least about who they’re talking about.
Yeah, Alfred was also originally a fat amateur sleuth who wanted to figure out Batman’s secret identity, and was then retconned into Bruce/Batman’s confidant. He wasn’t even a father figure to Bruce until the '80s, and the, “Alfred is a secret badass,” thing is something they’ve been picking up and dropping since the 90s. This comment is actually a great metaphor for all of the political discussions on Lemmy; a guy who thinks he’s an expert even though his base of knowledge goes back less than 10 years.
“well akshualay that doesn’t count because 80s or something”
Isn’t that the exact same thing people say about why nothing Biden does that’s even remotely progressive deserves credit?
LOL, first comment: “Well, akshualay, if you read the comics, you’d know that the Joker would get wrecked by Alfred.”
Second comment: “This nerd is correcting me!”
Life comes at you fast, huh?
One problem at a time means dealing with what’s in front of us with the tools we have at hand. Perfect is the enemy of good/better
Also Alfred is a fucking Chad
No, the problem in front of us is that the only person standing between us American fascism just went on TV and made himself look old and senile. Ignoring that problem and plowing through with compromised candidate isn’t dealing with one problem at a time, it’s ignoring a problem and hoping it goes away.
You think that the actual fascist isn’t the bigger problem…odd.
Not what I said, but cool lie dude!
You had your chance at the primaries.
In fact there was a younger man,
Oh but no one liked his ideas.
So maybe age isn’t the real issue then.
Age isn’t the issue. Bidens age related decline is the issue. If Biden we’re still sharp and responsive it would be a different story but he’s neither.
The primarys are a Joke anyway. People like Gavin Newsom know better than to run or they’d risk the ire of those running the party.
Until we abolish the two party system our country is screwed anyway. Neither of the two parties would ever do that so it’s hopeless. Standing up for Joe at this point is just digging our countries own grave.
Joe is by far the least likely candidate to beat Trump despite the intense propaganda campaign being run right now. If Joe won’t be replaced then we’d better get used to seeing Trump in the news all day every day because that’s were we’re heading.
So you admit age argument has flaws but you’re still heavily leaning on the age thing as your only main theme. Your argument doesn’t compel me you actually are coherent enough to be making pot shots at anyone else’s coherency.
What are even talking about? I made my point clear that it’s not age alone that’s the issue but when there is age related cognitive decline then it becomes an issue. Do you really not see the difference? I had no problem with Bernie Sanders age because he was a sharp and effective leader who was able to effortlessly convey his thoughts and opinions. Biden is clearly confused and lost half the time. If you’re telling me that you honestly can’t see that then maybe it’s you who isnt coherent enough to matter.
Lots of people in any age group can be incoherent. Such as yourself.
