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If I’m remembering right, wasn’t this specifically developed to assist in helping to better identify victims of human trafficking?
Yep. Found it.
Boy that would seriously mess with the narrative of this comment section if that were the case
Edit: oh no
It’s been used by people for nefarious purposes, regardless of its original intent. Both perspectives are valid.
edit: sexist horseshit is not a valid perspective.
What sexist horseshit are you talking about?
Of course the creator is going to tout the most morally upstanding use of his app. If it genuinely helps human trafficking victims, then that’s another story, but from this quote it just seems like he has some vague hope about it.
A tech startup with vague likely unrealistic hopes? What are the chances?
Yeah that sounds so much like post-hoc justification that I’m seriously surprised that it’s being swallowed by anyone.
I mean, great if it DOES help with such a terrible problem, it’s just I have seen this thing being talked about before and it’s NEVER been discussed in terms of helping trafficking victims. This is the first I’ve heard of it. Almost every time you see this kind of narrative being discussed it’s either 99% of the time a bunch of sweaty incels online whinging about how women aren’t really pretty and just want to trap guys or some other dom/sub kink fantasy nonsense to validate their depression and self-loathing, OR about 1% of the time it’s an actual empowering discussion talking about unfair hollywood beauty standards.
I mean ageing technology (what the person might look like after 5 years etc) was also created for human trafficking victims, and I haven’t seen it really being talked about in many years now since it came out. Seems weird to base something on whether or not you’ve heard of it.
If the family doesn’t have a recent picture of the person without makeup, then yeah, this would be useful, since people can look pretty different without makeup. I’m the only one who has recent pictures of my wife without makeup for example, her friends and parents only have pictures of her with makeup since she normally does some when meeting them. She’s also half Chinese, so depending on how she decides to do her make up, can look way more asian or barely asian at all. If I didn’t have those pictures and something happened, the make-up pictures wouldn’t be as useful in searching for her.
I think this is more about whether or not the creator was honest when they claim that’s why they created the app and it looks like many people here, myself included, are dubious about that being his intention and not just a justification.
wasn’t this specifically developed to assist in helping to better identify victims of human trafficking?
The author of the article you linked doesn’t seem to believe that.
The creator stated their intent, and the author disagreed. Does that opinion make the creator’s statement untrue?
It’s a weird situation & definitely a slippery slope. Was it his intent? I honestly can’t say. I guess it’s certainly a possibility.
I don’t think this kind of app is harmful in itself. This kind of thing can & will obviously be used/weapon used by stupid shit-heads for their own agenda, but those kind of people will utilize literally anything that exists to justify their shit-head views.
The author of the article is right not to believe this claim. The author can say that their software was intended for whatever noble uses they want. We know from experience that software has mainstream off-label use.
Is BitTorrent really a tool for downloading community content like open films and Linux distros? Because that’s what the creators say it’s for. It’s not untrue.
Is Jellyfin or Plex a tool for organizing your ripped collection of CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays? That’s what the developers say. It’s not untrue
Is Tor a tool for protecting dissidents? That’s what they say it is. It really is that. But is that all it is?
This tool might be useful for identifying sex trafficking victims, just as a nudifying app might be useful for identifying victims of involuntary pornography.
But on the other side of this is that nudifying apps are more likely to be used to create involuntary pornography, and makeup-removal apps are more likely to be used to harass women.
No reason to ban AI technology or anything, but no reason to pretend that tools like this aren’t used for off-label and sometimes nefarious purposes.
Notably unbiased person Internet McJournalist
It’s wild that hundreds of years ago, high society women would wake up to put on makeup. They’d literally never be seen without it. Waking up at crack ass morning, wear makeup, then make breakfast.
My wife and I went for a walk and she didn’t even wear a bra.
Life is great.
There are plenty of women who live like this now. It’s a cultural thing, not a timeline thing. I had a roommate in college who would wake up before dawn to do her makeup so nobody would see her without it.
(Also high society women certainly didn’t make their own breakfasts… well, ever, but especially not hundreds of years ago)
And depending on the era, certainly in England, many high society people didn’t get out of bed until 11am or midday.
I love when your wife doesn’t wear a bra. It does make life great.
We all love this guy’s wife
hun, step outside, I need to see if I need to bring a jacket…
Why have so many people down voted this? Do they not get it, or do they just hate nipples?
Having probably not seen a naked woman, I guess they don’t get it
“Whoa. They get… naked? What, you mean like in front of you?”
only if you barge in on them changing, like any good married man does
i like the idea that high society women would make breakfast, maybe they’d play at it but the actual breakfast would be made by lower class servants.
This doesn’t look like a woman without makeup, it looks like a woman with makeup with a filter over her face.
Yep, looks like it was fooled by the fake contour on her right cheek.
I know jack shit about photo editing, but did this person just de-saturate the colors? The eyes and hair look like they are less vivid. Even the background looks different., less dark and more blue?
The real challenge is to use the app on somebody not wearing makeup.
Do it twice and every woman looks like Gollum.
That’s how you know it’s accurate. Same thing happens if you use makeup remover twice on bare skin.
Using the “makeup remover” app on your date one too many times and then…
You may not like it, but this is what peak Hugo Weaving looks like
I was there, Mr Anderson, 3000 years ago…
His delivery was everything. The way he carries on as if nothing can really bother him much was what sold the franchise for me
The ideal form
Looks like it’s doing more than that since it seems to remove the mascara and added fullness of the lips from the lipstick
It’s not like we wear makeup as some devious plot to trick men and hide our real faces instead of you know, to look good for ourselves. Besides, I don’t think I look that different without makeup, sometimes people just ask if I didn’t sleep well last night if I don’t.
Anyway, if people really cared that much to see their favorite actress (me) without makeup, would you be interested in getting a copy of “Barbie”, now available on Blu-ray and select streaming services?
(and there’s “The Wolf of Wall Street” for the naked part.)
Thanks, Margot Robbie. You are a pillor of Lemmy society!
You’re welcome, Agent641.
Also, that’s esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress Margot Robbie to you!
I might be the minority group here, but I prefer my wife without makeup. After our second date I told her I’d rather see her face as it is, than it be hidden under a mask. Everyone has flaws, it’s what makes us unique and there is beauty in that alone. She hasn’t worn makeup since and were pushing 2 decades of marriage now.
i mean you can apply makeup that doesn’t look like a mask, it’s the old adage of “if you’re not aware of it, it’s done right”
I’m in no way saying that someone shouldn’t if they want to. I do understand that it’s possible, I just prefer my wife without makeup, that’s all.
sometimes people just ask if I didn’t sleep well last night if I don’t.
I’ve heard this is a thing.
I’m a dude, I never sleep well. Anytime I look in the mirror, I can certainly tell that I didn’t sleep well, but I’m almost never asked about it.
I went for a sleep study earlier this year, I’m meeting with a doctor to discuss the findings in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I can get better sleep soon…
Even with that being said, it would be nice if someone cared enough to ask about it. At the same time, I can also see that getting asked that question a bunch, regardless of how well you slept, would be pretty annoying.
IDK. Everyone asks what I’m doing, never how I’m doing. It’s fine. I survive.
I can certainly tell that I didn’t sleep well, but I’m almost never asked about it.
But you’re probably also not told things like how you should smile more any time you don’t look cheery enough.
Man’s appearance just gets criticized less than women’s appearance.
This is true but it also goes hand in hand with men’s health being an equivalent level of disregarded.
Unless your obviously physically injured, your problems are simply not important to people. Emotional distress, mental health, and pretty much any discomfort/pain/feeling that isn’t associated with a physical injury is generally bushed off and anyone who tries to be heard about it, generally gets ridiculed by their peers.
Obviously family/friends can be an exception to this rule, but co-workers and acquaintances generally just tell you to stop whining and get back to work.
It’s a trade off. People who present as female generally get too much of people’s attention to their personal situation, while those presenting as male get far too little.
There are obvious problems with both; for men, issues can be ignored to the point where you are actively being harmed by inaction, meanwhile, people always and overly concerning themselves with the well-being of women, can be equally harmful. Most of the time it’s the same kind of harm, usually both mental and physical, but it varies from case to case, regardless of gender.
I’m not saying any of it is right, at all, nor am I endorsing any of it. I just want people to care about others equally regardless of how they present themselves, their gender, or what’s in their pants, but don’t concern yourself with others so much that you’re actively doing them harm either.
The self promotion on obscure forums for a handful of up votes and assumption that you are people’s favourite actress makes this account look more like someone pretending to be Margot Robbie, rather than it being genuine.
That’s what she WANTS you to think
Like I always say, it’s not astroturfing if you don’t get caught!
Please don’t roast me here, but why is wanting to know what someone looks like without makeup such a bad thing? I’ve never even thought about it before, so please don’t take this as advocating for it. It just doesn’t immediately occur to me what the problem would be.
I get why it’s gross to have an app to remove clothing, but makeup feels like a different category.
What about an app that changes or removes hair? Or one for sunglasses/jewelry?
Are they all gross in some way that I’m missing? Is it creepy to remove makeup from photos but not creepy to remove earrings?
On the surface it seems reasonable, but it tends to have misogynistic undertones, especially if said towards strangers.
It’s like when the paparazzi publishes photos of celebrities with no makeup without their consent. If her makeup skills are good, she gets accused of “deceiving” people about her real age/looks. If her makeup skills are bad, she just gets called ugly.
It’s kind of creepy to do anything to a photo without consent. I’m a dude with plugs, and it’d be a little off-putting if a stranger I didn’t know digitally removed my ear rings to see what I’d look like.
This is how I present myself. You can see me without ear rings or makeup when I want you too.
I like that you asked. While I don’t hold a strong opinion on it, I think you could argue that it is about consent.
I will argue more strongly than I feel because I think it helps to understand the point. (Assuming the person wearing makeup is a woman)
If you don’t know the woman, why do you care if she wears makeup and how she looks without? It seems like there isn’t a legitimate reason for it without it being a toxic reason, like “look! she isn’t prettier than me!” Vibe. Which is toxic for both people. Now it was a man who made the app. Now there is the hating of women for wearing makeup reasons but let’s ignore those. (Case: Unknown feelings of the woman)
If you know the woman and you don’t know how she looks without makeup, then that is clearly a decision made by the woman. Why do you have the right to expose her in a way that she doesn’t want to be. I mean some women don’t care if you see their tummies and others would rather die. Should you have the right to expose a woman’s tummy? (Case: Implied decision to not show herself like that)
If you know the woman and you want to argue that you have a justified interest in how she looks without makeup because she is a potential Partner (if she is a partner, you probably know already anyway). You could easily argue that you have the same legitimate reason to see her naked but obviously you wouldn’t think that it is a legitimate reason.
In other words, you shouldn’t care and it is kinda toxic to care; you don’t have consent to see them like it otherwise you would; you have no right to know.
I don’t know. I’ve seen a few examples of women who have radically changed their looks via skillful application of cosmetics.
I don’t know what to do with that. On one hand, society expects them to use available techniques to change their appearance to meet standards of beauty very few can ever accomplish. Otoh, it’s dishonest because irl they’re not who they seem to be, so an app that shows them without makeup might be useful. But the catch-22 is that the app may not be right, or that we judge too harshly based on an unattainable standard.
Man, Beauty is fucked up in the West. CGI, photoshop, photo manipulation have destroyed reality in favor of manipulating what desirability is.
Man, Beauty is fucked up in the West.
Its no different in the East.
Let me tell you, Western women put make up much lighter than East Asian women.
I’ve edited people’s makeup and faces as part of the process of learning Photoshop, so I understand what you’re saying. There are perfectly normal applications for this.
The issue is intent. A lot of men think that women are “lying” when they wear makeup. They think that the most valuable quality a woman can have is natural beauty, and treat makeup as trickery.
There’s no shortage of men who think “You’d look better without makeup” is a compliment too.
An app like this would inevitably be used to help streamline the process of harassIng and negging women online.
There’s also the matter that women can put great time and effort into their makeup, and having someone remove their hard work from an image and throw it back at them is quite insulting. A makeup artist is still an artist and they likely don’t want their peers wielding tools designed specifically to nullify their work.
It shouldn’t be illegal or anything. No law against being an asshole. But it isn’t an app that will be used with good intent in most cases, and we should definitely pay attention because the “modify pictures of other people’s faces and bodies” use case for AI appears to have the potential to do a great deal of harm.
A makeup artist is still an artist
Bro I must have missed that section at the Louvre, can you suggest a few masterpieces for me to look up?
If inclusion in the Louvre is an obligatory status to be considered art, then makeup is absolutely art.
Removed by mod
Look, you’re the one who set the Louvre as the standard for what is or isn’t art. If you want to keep moving the goalpost, by all means, explain what you actually think makes something art.
You never reached the goalpost, I’m still waiting
bald
Snapchat’s offered that for years, though generally you get consent since you’ll point the selfie camera at yourself and a friend.
Hmm:
-> thinking about somebody naked
Widely accepted if you don’t talk about it
-> Photoshopping somebody naked
Widely despised (w/o consent). Maybe it’s too linked to the release at some point of the images. but I have a feeling even if no one ever posted that stuff, we would still feel icky about it.
Interesting, something is icky but I don’t know why
Incel/redpill nonsense right here.
Indeed, which is why I’m laughing
Just echoing the ridicule
I hate how they have taken that redpill term to make it all uncool instead of how cool it used to be in the Matrix.
redpill?
“Red pill” is a matrix reference (take the blue pill and go back to your normal life or take the red pill and “see how deep the rabbit hole goes”) high jacked by sexist dudes who see “taking the red pill” as waking up to (perceived) social injustice against men. They show up in threads claiming women routinely lie about being assaulted and hide behind male victims (which exist and need to be heard) as they deny that women can be victims. They get mad when a woman is in Star Wars. They are the kind of people constantly saying “me too went gone too far” and end up pushing crap like Gamer Gate. They are also generally very right wing/overlap with “men’s rights activists.”
Thanks for explanation.
high jacked by sexist dudes who see “taking the red pill” as waking up to (perceived) social injustice against men
l just never seen it in this context.
My wife almost never wears makeup. Basically only for things like job interviews.
And I don’t like how she looks in makeup, so I’m fine with that.
Same, I’m really grateful she has no interest/desire to wear makeup. It was also nice to know what her face looked like from day 1, which is what this app is meant to facilitate.
The more I think about it, the stranger the notion of ‘gatekeeping her real face’ behind a full-on relationship sounds to me, lol.
P.S. lol, I just remembered reading an old ‘hack’ for this years and years ago: make a water park your first outing together.
I developed methods which can tell you what women think too. It’s called Talking2M. It’s fun, mostly 3d, open world scenarios, sometimes multiple choice answers …
More details to come soontm with version 1,1b. Btw: Get a life!
The sad thing is that’s basically what people like Andrew Tate get notorious for- A man telling other men what women think.
I’ve never heard of a major female influencer telling lonely incel types how to get a girlfriend. But then I suppose she would be telling them to do things like “listen to what she’s saying” and “care about her problems” and that’s not what they want to hear.
I’ve never heard of a major female influencer telling lonely incel types how to get a girlfriend.
There’s a few, but they say the same shit the male influences say. It’s pretty rough watching a 27 year old single woman telling men about The Wall.
The Wall
The Berlin Wall? Pink Floyd’s The Wall? The US-Mexico border wall? More details, please.
The “wall” women hit when they turn 25. I’m not gonna delve into the details but incel influences like them… Very young.
Thanks, that’s enough details.
Why would they drive their customer basis away? A lot of female influencers is basically soft porn. And it is the type you get pushed on the platforms and that have million of followers. Not the women focusing on their hobbies or societal issues or other actually interesting stuff.
To add to both your posts, a pretty good general rule is: don’t confuse famous with knowledgeable.
The only knowledge they’ve proven is of “how to become known in a specific domain”, which at least in social media is mainly about self-promotion (and more generally it’s about grifter skills) rather than specific domain knowledge.
So yeah, the likes of Andrew Tate will do it by looking confident whilst telling tons of bullshit and plenty of female influencers will do it by looking good and showing some skin - they’re good at self-promotion online but that doesn’t mean they know shit about anything else.
I don’t know that soft porn for men and “listen to a woman and acknowledge her problems” really go together, but if one of them tried it, it might work. Something tells me the people watching her would just watch someone else instead. They’re not watching for dating advice.
I think I may have tested a Beta version because I get responses like:
- You know what you did.
- Empathise don’t sympathise.
- What should I wear.
- Be more spontaneous.
- Don’t plan without me.
ah, the good ole “women be difficult” typa joke, tho I’d say I prefer the “i hate my wife lol” boomer ones
OK, let’s remove empathise don’t sympathise which could be interpreted as being difficult.
Now it’s pure not knowing what women are thinking.
What is this life you keep talking about?
Is a “metaverse” game way before the metaverse was a thing.
Real LifeTM is a Role-Playing Multiplayer Game with the best graphics resolution in the Industry.
Sadly, it suffers from severe game play balance problems, most notably that most of game play time is spent in boring tasks which should’ve been simplified into just the core gameplay element for a better gaming experience, plus it’s heavy reliance on grinding, to the point that most players literally have to spend at least 8h per day in the game grinding merelly to not lose the game.
And don’t get me started on it’s Pay To Play elements.
As an older guy: It’s the same picture.
Older guy here. I have noticed that now when I look a beautiful young women I feel envy rather than lust. My thoughts go to wishing I was young again rather than wishing I could “tap dat ass” or whatever. Realizing that made kinda sad, NGL.
Made me realise I’m aging. Damnit.
Take this old man. Your eyes blink automatically. Have fun blinking your eyes manually for the next few minutes.
Nyeeee
Got caught in the manual blinking crossfire here… Damn you!
Patrice O’Neal has a good bit on this:
What would you do differently if you were young this time? Asking as a 21M.
It’s not lile that. I have no regrets, it’s just that I am getting older. Shit hurts all the time or doesn’t work as well as it used to. I am tired and the weight of a lifetime of memories is starting to get heavy. I am the same guy I was at ~21. In thirty years you will be the same guy you are today, but younger people will look at you different. I skateboard, I surf, I snowboard, etc as I have for forty years, but now I am not a dude doing dude things, I am a curiosity or “an inspiration”. I can’t go to a concert or a club to enjoy myself as I always have because now I am the weird old guy in the club. Nevermind that I have been listening to “EDM” since the 80’s. It just sucks that I just can’t be me without it being weird.
As far as advice, you know what to do. Eat well (little to no proceased food, way less meat, more veggies, etc) exercise regularly, stay active, and drink lots of water. Also, play hard AND work hard for yourself.
I like the work Hard for yourself statement. As a 43 year old woman possibly dealing with a serious health issue (waiting on results) I wish I had worked harder for myself on prioritising my health over my work. Far too easy to put off dr appointments/dentist appointments/smears etc by rationalising that you can’t miss that meeting.
I have had to deal with a few of those in recent years and they are not fun. Hang in there and best of luck.
Heah, I guess for people in this day and age health span maximisation (not life span) should be the main goal.
I see. I just feel a bit bad because I’ve spent the past few years living with my parents, without friends, stressing over university yet failing. And I’m really tempted to just say stuff it, move cities and actually live. My life has been so defficient in adventure up to now. I just can’t help but think that university, careers, office jobs etc. can wait when the (biological) clock is ticking.
Just keep prioritizing yourself, your well being and your future. You won’t regret investing in yourself. (Ugh, I sound like a mindfulness infomercial)
EDIT: When it comes to adventure time, not everything needs to be epic. A few years ago a friend I have known since highschool told me that one of the most significant moments in her life was just us sitting quietly on the beach. No conversation. We just sat and took the world in. Just, try not to sleepwalk through it all.
I highly doubt you’re the same person that you were at 21! Well, maybe you are, but I’m not sure that’s universal.
Even as someone approaching 30 I look back and nearly don’t recognize the person I used to be. Sure I have the continuity and experience, but the way I act and think has changed dramatically, and for the better.
Time brings wisdom and I’d guess you’ve got more wisdom than I
Put money in your 401k! Nothing else really matters as much.
What I would change in my case:
- Engage with people, even if it’s awkward or you have something more fun and that takes less effort right now
- Get a basic understanding of personal finance (read a book or two)
- Don’t be content with the bare minimum. You’ll spend a lot of time working. Try to get as much as possible for yourself for every hour working.
But I think each person’s realities will vary a lot. For example, regarding the first bullet point, maybe you’re extraverted and already a social butterfly, in which case the advice doesn’t apply.
Also do you wish you had taped dat ass more when you were my age?
I have been a proper slut so no, lack of sex is not a regret. 😉
Older guy here too and I feel the same way. My daughter asked me not long ago about guys with cheerleader and schoolgirl fetishes and if it was pedophilia and I said no, but I certainly do not understand why someone my age would be into that.
the app isn’t for men in relationships…
Classic app developer: Creates a problem for a solution.
I only wear a tiny bit of eyeliner, so checkmate men, what you get is what you see.
And most men thank you for that and wish all women were like that.
I don’t care what men think. I’m 50 and I’m all done with what men think.
Real & based
Given how prevalent make up is, especially with how many stories i heard of women struggling in the office when they did not put on makeup that specific day, how the behavior of random strangers changed etc. that is not true. There are some men, but definitely no the majority.
My wife’s opinion is that most of the pressure comes from other women and old men.
If you always wear makeup and one day you don’t people will notice a change for sure
women struggling in the office when they did not put on makeup that specific day, how the behavior of random strangers changed etc.
It’s simply the difference that’s being noticed, and no one’s really at fault for that, on either side. Any woman who never wears makeup is also never going to get the same ‘are you sick?’ kind of reactions on any given day she doesn’t wear makeup to work.
the eye color change is suggesting women wear eyeball makeup?
Also: I’d love to run Donald Trump through this
